Lay off Obama, Dodd, and Biden - THE GOP BLOCKED THIS!

[Zandor]

We didn't have the 60 votes. Period. And that was because of overwhelming opposition among Republicans. The Republicans were forced to go on record, supporting Gonzalez.

Obama, Dodd and Biden would have voted against Gonzalez - and it still would have come up short. This is another indictment of the Republican party, yet we have misplaced anger heaped on three of our candidates, our guys.

Let's stop looking for a reason to present every issue like this as a lack of will by Democrats. It's Republican obstruction. They are responsible.

[Greeby]

1. Hey, don't tell me not to verbally beat up on Biden

It's one of the few perks of being a political observer :evilgrin:

[Zandor]

6. Joe's a good man!

But I hear ya. :)

[LynneSin]

65. I'm proud to have Joe Biden as my senator

then again I had Rick Santorum for 8 years while in Pennsylvania. A tree slug would be a step uphill.

I find it amusing that folks claim Biden is the moderate when he's actually pretty liberal especially comparied to DLCer of Delaware - Tom Carper

[Captain Hilts]

2. Correct. It was a losing proposition from the get-go. nt

[Patsy Stone]

3. But if we don't hate a Democrat every day

what will we do with our time?

:thumbsup:

[Zandor]

4. Gawd forbid

we might actually have to place some things at the feet of the repugs??

[Patsy Stone]

8. Or put our heads together for good

instead of evil.

[Mabus]

52. Most definitely

I thought that we were supposed to gang up on another Democrat yesterday. I need a new "bash the Dems" calendar. Mine's out of date. I can't keep up with whom we're supposed to attack on which day.

Besides, I haven't gotten my decoder ring which will allow me to match up the Dem with what non-issue (be it the clothes they wear or whether or not they smiled appropriately) that we're going to clobber them over the head with.

:evilgrin:

edited to add extra snarkiness. Be assured it is not directed at you my dear Patsy! :hug:

[Patsy Stone]

56. It's hard to keep current

It's true. I just put them in rotation, and sometimes I'm right on schedule.

:hi: We miss you in the clubhouse.

[Mabus]

66. It boogles my mind

Why spend all this energy attacking our side?

I miss hanging in the clubhouse. My husband has been wanting to watch KO in the bedroom. He's been promising a laptop soon so I can watch and hang at the same time.

[tammywammy]

5. You're exactly right

:)

[grasswire]

7. it's the plan to beat up Democrats that's weakening 2008

And I am willing to wage war against any more of that "weak, failed Dems" crap. It is being pushed by those who wanted to split the party in 2000 and are still trying to do so. The people pushing the "failed Dems" crap are no friends of the proud, rich tradition of the Democratic Party. Make no mistake. Don't be fooled again.

[brentspeak]

10. Thanks for that. They're using DU to push their agenda, too.

It got way out of control --like three years ago.

[grasswire]

18. yep -- also like 2000

Never forget that betrayal. I won't.

[featherman]

15. Nobody is surprised at how these votes turn out... it's decided

ahead of time. If Harry could have firmly lined up 4 more R's AND kept the Blue Dogs with the program, then it may have been an important enough piece of political theater to make sure Dodd, Biden, and Obama returned. But the difference between 53 aye votes and 56 on a sure-to-fail cloture motion over a no-effect,symbolic resolution wasn't that important. The vote was on cloture, not the resolution itself.

That's my take anyway but if people want to have hurt feelings over this that's fine too.

[elocs]

32. Wait for it, ala 2000, "There's no difference between Democrats and Republicans".

Right. Six and a half years later, how has that lie worked out? Why would Republicans have to campaign for president in 2008 when they can watch the Liberal Left pout and split the party. Wouldn't it be funny if the Democrats won the White House in spite of them?

[paulk]

57. no need to wait...

I've seen it plenty of times already this campaign season, here at Green Underground, oops, I mean Free Republic, sorry, I mean Democratic Underground...

[journalist3072]

9. I couldn't disagree more. It doesn't matter that we didn't have the votes anyway

What matters is the cowardice that Obama and Biden displayed. They obviously did NOT want to be on record as voting yea or nay on whether to proceed to a no-confidence vote on Gonzalez.

What exactly is their problem with voting yea or nay on whether the Senate should proceed to a no-confidence vote on Gonzalez?

What Obama and Biden displayed today is political cowardice. I could care less whether or not we would have had the votes in the end. What matters is that Obama and Biden didn't even bother to vote--to be on record one way or the other.

Like I said in another thread, I better not hear Obama or Biden mention Gonzalez on the campaign trail or on one of the Sunday talking heads shows. They have no credibility to mention the name Alberto Gonzalez from this day forward.

[Boo Boo]

14. Correct. The point of the vote was to "go on the record," and they

did not, for whatever reason, go on the record.

What's up wi'dat?!

:shrug:

[ellisonz]

27. You forgot Dodd!

Umm...no. All three were cosponsors of the resolution. This issue comes up every campaign and it's mostly horse crap.

[Zandor]

48. Nonsense

They co-sponsored the resolution, and you say they were too cowardly to go on record and vote for it? Get real.

What we're disappointed in here is the Dems not having the votes to get this through. But we crucify a few of our own candidates, telling ourselves that somehow it was their cowardice that did it in, even when their vote wouldn't have passed it.

[silverweb]

11. Thank you.

Sanity and common sense prevail once again.

:thumbsup:

[Zandor]

12. Thanks to you! n/t

[edwardsfeingold08]

13. Except they want to be leaders.

If they are really against Gonzales, they should be leading on this vote. They should be there to vote and they should be trying to convince others to join them. Instead, they played politics--knowing that the average voter won't know about this vote or lack of vote. So, they chose to fund raise instead--at least I know Obama did because he's in my town right now at some $2,300 a plate fundraiser. I don't hold it against him because that's what it takes to win--money. While I don't fault him, let's not pretend he's not a typical politician.

[Zandor]

17. Money matters

Really, do you prefer another vote that doesn't change the outcome over raising funds?

[MonkeyFunk]

16. Not only that...

all three were co-sponsors of the resolution.

They weren't trying to duck taking a stand.

[Zandor]

22. Great point n/t

[illinoisprogressive]

19. if it was important they would have come. Reid must have told them not to.

[MonkeyFunk]

26. Nonsense

there was no chance this procedural vote would pass.

But it was a worthy effort - a number of Republicans joined us, and the rest were put on record.

Anybody who thought this would pass deserves to be disappointed.

[ellisonz]

29. But it did pass. Just not by a wide margin.

I agree, the point of this resolution was to put the GOP on record as supporting the hanky-panky with Justice Department appointments in general.

[Zandor]

47. Republicans up for re-election joined us

And you can bet their votes would have changed had they been needed to defeat this thing. Anyone trying to cobble together any scenario to get to 60 votes is kidding themselves.

[Jillian]

39. I was thinking the same thing.

Why wouldn't Reid tell them they really need to be there.

Wonder what's up. Kinda weird to be campaigning on a Monday.

I'm sure Reid and Durbin knew they weren't going to be there.

[FreeStateDemocrat]

20. A true Democrat fights the current evil by always casting their vote. They let the party down.

If they can't stand up and vote for the ideals that represent the core values of the Democratic Party in 2007 they do not deserve to be considered as a serious candidate for 2008. Based on this alone I wouldn't vote for any of these no-shows.

[sharp_stick]

23. So vote republican already n/t

[Zandor]

25. If you're that easily convinced

to not support a Democrat, you may find none on your list by 2008.

[RubyDuby in GA]

28. And if you think their no vote doesn't matter, you are seriously mistaken

This is just another thing in a long list of things that the Republicans can hold up on the campaign trail next year and say "see, they couldn't do this, they couldn't do that. They are weak and ineffective." And goddamn it, I happen to agree that they are ineffective and make us all look like fucking idiots with this kind of crap.

Everyone of the spineless cowards that didn't vote on this issue has no business trying to lead this nation since they can't be trusted to do what is right for this country.

[JeffR]

31. Ruby, this former Savannahian loves ya!

You go, sister!
:loveya:

[Zandor]

46. Spinelss cowards??? They were co-sponsors!!!

Their not voting had nothing to do with being too spineless to vote for it. It had to do with other priorities over a test vote that wasn't going to pass anyway.

My friend, you are letting the GOP itself take your eye off the ball. The Democrats were only "ineffective" because the repugs blocked it. The story here is the repugs sided with Gonzalez. They are now on record as doing so, and it's one more black eye for an ethically-challenged party.

[RubyDuby in GA]

50. Being a co-sponsor has absolutely nothing to do with this!

They are fucking cowards because they don't want their names associated with this vote. They are doing their best not to take offensive stands to some people. They know that this will come up in some debate and they are too much of a fucking coward to put their votes where their mouth used to be. If they don't have the courage to stand for their convictions now, they will cave completely when it comes to something even bigger. I've been swiftboated one too many times and I'm sick of candidates who won't do the right thing because someone somewhere might actually call them on their shit sometime!

[Zandor]

51. Then why would they co-sponsor the bill?

Your assertion they are too cowardly to vote for it when they co-sponsored it is absurd on it's face. You really think they're afraid to oppose Gonzalez? That's as easy as opposing hemorrhoids.

[RubyDuby in GA]

53. It's not absure. It's about showing strength of character.

If they would rather go fundraise than do their goddamned jobs, then they really need to sort out their priorities.

Asshats!

[Zandor]

54. Think about it

On one hand, you need a ridiculous amount of time and funds to run a credible presidential campaign. On the ither hand, you have a vote that won't make a bit of difference.

Their decision was understandable, your anger misplaced.

[RubyDuby in GA]

55. You are missing the point completely

They were afraid to take a stand as the Republicans will try to throw it back in their faces later on in the campaign cycle.
My anger is placed exactly where it needs to be - at the flaming assholes who are too cowardly to do their damn jobs!

[Zandor]

58. That makes no sense

If they were afraid of it being tossed up at them, they wouldn't have co-sponsored it. They'd have kept their distance entirely. Besides, do you really believe a GOP candidate is going to score points by talking about a Dem's opposition to Gonzalez? He's as popular as root canal.

If you think anger at Democratic candidates, whose votes couldn't have made a difference anyway, is appropriate okay I guess.My anger is for those that actually blocked it, the GOP.

[sharp_stick]

21. I've had it with the whiners

I'm telling you these assholes are more draining than fundies.

[Zandor]

24. LOL

But I disagree! Give me a progressive I disagree with over a fundie any day!

[JeffR]

33. "of the People, by the People and for the People"

So sorry to be a whiner. It's just my constitutional nostalgia breaking through now and then.

[JeffR]

30. Sorry, but I believe you're missing a big part of the anger.

Your math is correct, and you have a point here.

But I'm still tremendously pissed off, and there's more than enough of my ire to be shared among the GOP and our own aspiring Do-Nothing Majority. The GOP, as always, gets most of my anger, but the leftovers go to (certain) representatives of my party. All of them can go piss up a rope, even the one who may ultimately get my vote. Disgusting, disappointing and disheartening. I don't vote (D) because I want to always find the silver lining in turns of events, nor to constantly be shuffling my feet and talking like the inadvertently enabling victim of an abusive relationship, nor to be perpetually looking forward to that mythical City on the Hill.

Declare, fight, flex the majority, capitalize on public opinion for a change. Make your votes in the senior chamber based on what is just and correct, regardless - at last regardless - of the math. Lead. Inspire. Fight for a nation that makes some sort of coherent sense once again. Fight with the expectation of only incremental gains, at best, but never stop fighting.

That's what I expect from Obama, Dodd and Biden, and every other Democrat.

From the GOP I expect nothing, since they proved long ago to inhabit that part of the spectrum ranging from incompetent to corrupt to outright wicked. All of them, sadly even the scattering of moderates in their ranks, are little better than traitors to their country, and some of them are far worse.

From Democrats I expect more, and I expect better, and my expectations are not at all unreasonable as a citizen and conscientious supporter of the Democratic Party.

I submit humbly that no-one on this board, of whatever ideological or non-ideological stripe, should expect anything less.

They're supposed to work for us. All of us, as best they can. These three did not do the best they could have this time.

[Jillian]

34. Why does this piss off DUers more than none of the candidates willing to

debate Biden on Iraq?

All 3 of them have gone on record about Gonzales.

This place is beginning to remind me of the MSM talking about
Paris Hilton all day.

[JeffR]

36. Their real record is their voting record

Now and for history. No civics student in future eras will bother parsing their comments on or even questions to Gonzalez, much less their public so-called statements. It will be their votes that mean something down the road. Just as they do now.

And the Paris Hilton analogy is way off the mark, I believe.

[Jillian]

42. Well _ I for one would like to know what their plans are to get us out of Iraq.

Gonzales is not going anywhere - as long as we have this asshole in the WH.
I don't know why they weren't there today. BUT - I'm sure that Reid and Durbin knew.

[JeffR]

44. Agree entirely about the issue of Iraq

First and foremost.

If the Senate Majority Leader knew, then he should have bent the agenda to commit to another date for a vote, with all voices present.
It would have been to the benefit of all candidates from the Senate to have been there. Hope they did their candidacies some good in some other way today, because this particular situation has only done the lot of them harm.

[yodermon]

35. Had All of the GOP Senators already indicated how they'd be voting?

If so, then you're pretty much right.

If not, then they were derelict for not showing up just in case enough GOPers defected.

And yes, the silver lining is that all these gopers have now gone on the record supporting gonzo.

[Timbuk3]

37. Amen

Also, K&R.

[robinlynne]

38. Can you imagine if the resistance in the second world war stopped acting because

they were losing? if che guevara decided not to act because there were 'more republicans". All throughout history people have fought for change whether or not they were going to win that particular action. The more you fight for one small thing, the closer you are to the next thing you are fighting for. Do you think Rosa parks thought the law would magically change because she sat down?
She didn't have the numbers either.
DAmn, remember the black caucus walking out of congress in 2000? That is one of the things that has kept me going all these 6 years....
Barbara Boxer standing up alone as the lone senator in january 2004. The week before, i spent giving talks to democratic clubs for the first time in my life (not a good speaker), to get people to call Barbara Boxer to give her the backup to stand up and do that. Can you imagine if we all gave up because we knew the republicans would vote us down?

Hell no!

[JeffR]

40. You nailed it.

Just nailed it.

[HughMoran]

41. Can we at least bash LIEberman?

God I hate him.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

43. So keep pounding them

If there's something the Dems really want (and the American people really want) keep sending that bill back every week if necessary.

[rockymountaindem]

45. The big-wigs at the RNC must all be at the bar right now

since we're doing their work for them.

[blueworld]

49. Can we stop whining about the barking?

Can we at least run a tally of how many Congressional contenders miss how many Congressional votes by party? McCain is the winner at this point, but all of them were elected to office, not elected to campaign for two years.

I'm already tired of hearing the "we don't have a veto-proof majority" tune. If they were on the floors of Congress working hard & crafting brilliant speeches, that might help to stigmatize the GOP failures more directly. DU'ers already know the GOP sux; I want to be proud of the fighting Dems.

[DrDan]

59. so why is it too much to expect our elected officials to do

what they are paid to do - represent us?

I don't remember electing anyone as a presidential candidate - I voted for them to serve in the Senate.

[BringBigDogBack]

60. Correct. n/t

[depakid]

61. we didn't have the votes... we didn't have the votes!

If I hear this apology one more time, I think my head will explode.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

62. We didn't have the votes.

please have a friend send the video.

[depakid]

63. Warning

When Roe v. Wade is overruled, will people still be saying "but we didn't have the votes?"

[David Zephyr]

64. Count me with you.

:thumbsup: