Clark, Lieberman Spar Over Iran

[Adelante]

The senator told CBS' "Face the Nation" Sunday that the U.S. should be prepared to strike Iran if necessary. He repeated that view Monday on the Fox News Network, saying, "It's time to understand we're prepared to take military action" to "take out" the bases where Iranians are training extremists to kill U.S. military personnel in Iraq.

Retired Gen. Wesley Clark had heard enough.

"Sen. Lieberman's saber rattling does nothing to help dissuade Iran from aiding Shia militias in Iraq, or trying to obtain nuclear capabilities," said Clark, who in 2004 was one of Lieberman's rivals for the Democratic presidential nomination.

"In fact," said Clark, "it's highly irresponsible and counter-productive, and I would urge him to stop."

-snip

Clark took further aim at Lieberman: "Only someone who never wore the uniform or thought seriously about national security would make threats at this point."

http://www.courant.com/news/politics/hc-caucus0612.artjun12,0,1006234.story

[Stuckinthebush]

1. I wish the General was running

I like Clark. I love the fact that he took on Lieberman's foolish war mongering.

[NCarolinawoman]

11. Ironical if warhawk "Lierman" inadvertently goaded Wes Clark into throwing his hat in the race.

I feel strongly that we need Clark's voice out there on a bigger stage; even if the Hillary machine is seemingly wrapping things up.

[Dinger]

20. Goddamn, lieberman, Are You Sure You Want To Mess With Wes?

If lieberman gets Wes into the race, I'm damn sure it wouldn't be deliberate. If lieberman does get Wes in the race, it'll actually be something good he's done.

[The Count]

38. It would be poetic justice!

Doubly sweet!

[NewJeffCT]

2. The general shoots, and he scores

the crowd goes wild.

Lieberman is seemingly more divorced from reality every single day.

[Rydz777]

3. Yes, Lieberman is absolutely divorced from reality, and so is

his pal in the White House. We have one disaster on our hands - Iraq - and he wants another one. The flood waters are rising in our basement, so let's set the roof on fire.

[Tom Rinaldo]

7. No, I am afraid that we are divorced from reality

Lieberman's position on Iran has much more popular support than most of us care to acknowledge. OK, I guess that means both Lieberman AND we are divorced from reality in different ways, because General Clark is absolutely correct on this of course. The crowd should go wild when Clark exposes Lieberman as a fraud on National Security. And I certainly hope our little crowd here at DU sees cause for celebration in that, but we are not the biggest crowd around.

All of my posts carry the link and graphic for StopIranWar.com but most grassroots activists have not taken the threat of U.S. military action against Iran seriously enough to organize against it. Because I have taken the time, and I've ventured off of highly Liberal Democratic web sites like Democratic Underground in my efforts to rally the public to stop this pending war, I know how many people have already drunk the Kool Aid that Iran is led by mad men who can only be stopped by firm measures up to and including force or else they will use nuclear bombs to blow up our cities.

Look at our own Democratic Party Damn it! (no not Liebermans little "independent democrats" charade in CT). The House Caucus of Democrats forced Nancy Pelosi to strip out of the original Iraq War Funding legislation language that would have forced Bush to come to Congress for a vote prior to launching an attack on Iran. They didn't want to tie Bush's hands on Iran.

I repeat:

THEY DIDN'T WANT TO TIE BUSH'S HANDS ON IRAN!!!

[Tom Joad]

8. aipac opposed that provision in the Iraq "let's stay forever" funding bill

so it was stripped of that language by their bestest friend Nancy Pelosi (she really is about their best friend, since Nancy has much more power than ... except maybe Dick Cheney is also one of their bestest friends too).

so you want to stop a war against Iran?

Organize against the lobby that is fighting for it.

www.StopAIPAC.org

[Tom Rinaldo]

29. Clark hasn't exactly shied away from them

and he bears a few political scars to prove it, but he will not remain passive in the face of a drive toward another tragic and avoidable war.

For all I know it is Clark's uncompromising stance on this issue that complicates his ability to raise the resources needed to compete for President. I hope not, but the thought has crossed my mind.

[Pacifist Patriot]

9. Thank you for the link

I've just visited, took a few actions and bookmarked it for a fuller visit later.

[Jim__]

4. "Only someone who never wore the uniform ..."

Well said, general. What is with these chickenhawks?

"...we're prepared to take military action...". Yea, we are, right Joe. I'm sure you'll be right behind us cheering us on.

[rpannier]

5. They posted my reply...I'm so pleased

On Lieberman you left out part...He got a deferment because of college, children and he's a soulless, sociopathic coward who has no problem sending others to die, but he'd never go himself.
:party: :bounce: :woohoo: :patriot:

edited so I could give myself some "smilies"

[pinkpops]

54. No

he is a soulless, whining sociopathic coward

[mdelaguna2000]

6. Lieberman way outmatched in this interchange -

you tell 'em General!

[Schema Thing]

10. Thank you General. I'd already fantasized that you got on national

TV and asked Lieberman to kindly stfu.

[BootinUp]

12. Lieberman is out of his league.

Joe thinks he can have a credible war of words with Clark.


Psst Joe! You're nothing but another chickenhawk, STFU on matters of war and peace and let the adults handle it.

[Clark2008]

13. Let's see. Who to trust on national security and foreign policy issues.

Hmmmm.... a retired general who has been 100 percent correct about the Iraqi War or a whiny, pampered senator who thinks his ass needs to be kissed.

:eyes:

[Crunchy Frog]

69. Congratulations, she's beautiful!

:toast:

[blondie58]

85. she is a gorgeous girl!!!

Congratulations, Clark2008! Now the fun really starts.

[Tom Rinaldo]

88. Congratulations! And thanks for reminding us all once again

what issues of war and peace are really all about.

[Totally Committed]

14. It's about time someone took Lieberman on!

Nice that it's someone who has forgotten more about foreign policy than Joe is yet to learn.

TC

[Wesin04]

84. Not the first time Clark took on Lieberman

Remember the great ad last Fall during the election? Too bad Lieberman couldn't be stopped then, before the got to this. Go get him, General. You're the only one who can.:applause:

[ShortnFiery]

15. "it's highly irresponsible and counter-productive, and I would urge him to stop."

Well put General (Ret.) Wesley Clark! :yourock: :applause: :patriot:

[Larkspur]

16. Clark was a big help for Lamont last year. He did a rally and cut a great TV ad

Too bad that ad was 3 weeks too late to make a difference. That's the campaign's fault. Clark did his best for Lamont and hit Lieberman hard in that simple but effective TV ad. The ad did help Lamont close the poll gap a bit, but it should have been cut and put on TV right after Clark's rallay appearance in mid-September.

[jenmarie]

39. You mean this one:

..."Re-elect Joe Lieberman? "Well, there's a word for it -- Mistake."

Right again, Sir!

( ^ link goes to YouTube)

[Cameron27]

17. I can't find this exchange anywhere but in the Hartford Courant.

I'll keep looking, but WTF?

Lieberman's a phony, mean-spirited, little man who completely loses credibility when General Clark confronts him. Unfortunately, this is just the beginning. We need Clark's voice.

[Clark2008]

18. Because that would violate the media's "Wesley Clark Law"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3291980&mesg_id=3292051

[Cameron27]

21. A little Clarkie has arrived!

Hannah is just beautiful Clark2008, I've got to check KO's group for more pics!

Congratulations! I hope you're feeling well!

Now, so I don't hi-jack this thread, yes, it looks like Wes Clark's Law is sill going strong.

[Clark2008]

35. She's also a Keith Olberman fan

:7

[robbedvoter]

37. What a beauty! Congratulations!

Nice outfit too!

[Cameron27]

40. LOLOLOL

How adorable! Send that picture to Keith!

[renate]

49. what seasonedblue said!

I bet Keith would LOVE to see that picture, even more than the rest of us love it!

:loveya:

[Adelante]

22. Aw, look at the babe

Best wishes to you and the family. :hug:

[Dinger]

26. Awww, Shucks

Thanks buddy, luv ya!:loveya: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

[AtomicKitten]

27. welcome to the world, Hannah-Beth, and sorry for the mess

:)

[Sparkly]

52. Awwwww!!!

Congrats, Clark2008 -- she's darling!

[StudentsMustUniteNow]

19. LIEberman got told n/t

[Texas_Kat]

23. I've always said..... it's not the malicious swiftboating that matters

it's the response from the candidate.

Clark has a sharp wit and a devastating delivery. Any doubt what kind of response he'd have to the Republican swiftboaters?

[IA_Seth]

24. Thank you for the link...

I briefly saw this unfolding on an Emergency Room TV yesterday afternoon but was entirely too distracted to pay much attention.

I am happy to see Wes put joe in his place...he has needed it for a long time. Let's hope that our entire field of candidate's will follow in Clark's steps and urge diplomacy first.

[Clark2008]

42. Is your little bit OK?

I know you're wife is about a month behind me and I just had Hannah Friday.

How are you guys?

[IA_Seth]

51. Congrats!

And back at it so soon! Lol.

Yes, both my girls are doing great (mommy and baby), she is now at 35 weeks and was having some intense cramping and pain yesterday but I guess they were braxton-hicks, some ligament pain, and probably some old scar tissue to boot. It's our first so we were scared enough to hit the ER! She is feeling a lot better after getting some rest, tylenol, and LOTS of water.

Hopefully the next Clarkie will wait a few weeks at least before making her grand appearance! Thanks for asking though!

So Hannah is a beautiful name, I am sure she fits it well. How is everything going for you? I hope your labor went quick and painless (as if, right?).

ON EDIT: Ok, now I see the pics..doh! She is adorable! I love those cheeks and that full head of hair. She is definitely a cutie! Congrats again.

[Clark2008]

64. I had those at 34 weeks and they stopped them

only to NEVER have them again. I ended up having another C-Section because I tend to grow these huge babies and I'm only 5'1" tall! And... you'll love this... the doctor, when he cut me open said I have absolutely NO FAT in my abdomen. He said that he ususally has to cut through some on anyone, but with me, it was skin then baby. He told hubby he should be very thankful. :rofl:

Now, if the bloating would just go down so I could PROVE I don't have any fat in my tummy. x(

Good luck with yours! It won't be long now!! You're in the home stretch. :loveya:

[calteacherguy]

25. Now, could Clinton, Obama, or Edwards have said something like that?

Yes, but not with the same level of credibility as Clark. We are going to need Clark in 08' to win...and to hopefully prevent further war and bloodshed.

[AtomicKitten]

28. General Clark put that sniveling dweeb in his place.

My natural proclivity would be to hit Schmoementum in the head with a 2 x 4.

[CarolNYC]

31. hehe...That might be Clark's first impulse too....

But you know his mantra..."force only, only, only as a last resort." :)

I'm glad the General's confronting him on this.

[Eurobabe]

30. Oh I love the General!

:loveya:

[eridani]

32. Clark may yet singlehandedly stop the proposed war

Candidate or not, his leadership here has been critical.

[Tom Rinaldo]

33. Clark Counters Lieberman at Huffington Post

Clark has a new Diary up at HuffPo now, which includes some of his comments picked up by the Courant above, and go even further. The tone of his words may not fully reflect the depth of his anger at Joe Lieberman, but they sure hint strongly at it. Clark titled his piece:

"Joe Lieberman is at it again"

and he ends his piece by saying:

"We cannot let people like Joe Lieberman dictate the terms of this debate."

In between, in addition to the quotes found in this thread's OP, Clark also states:

"This kind of rhetoric is irresponsible and only plays into the hands of President Ahmadinejad, and those who seek an excuse for military action. What we need now is full-fledged engagement with Iran. We should be striving to bridge the gulf of almost 30 years of hostility and only when all else fails should there be any consideration of other options. The Iranians are very much aware of US military capabilities. They don't need Joe Lieberman to remind them that we are the militarily dominant power in the world today."

Go Get Him General!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gen-wesley-clark/joe-lieberman-is-at-it-ag_b_51828.html

[Dinger]

36. Has LIEber"man" Had a Reply?

:rofl:

[Totally Committed]

43. Yep! From the Hartford Courant:

"Lieberman wasn't stopping.

Asked about Clark's remarks, he said, 'We've got some enemies out there ... we're not going to defeat them with a lot of talk and warm embraces.'"

http://securingamerica.com/node/2460

:rofl:

TC

[Dinger]

44. Well I Don't Think LIEber"man" Has To Worry About Too Many "Warm Embraces"

The idiot.

[Sparkly]

53. "talk and warm embraces" -- straight from the GOP Big Book O' Scripts

Right there with "Democrats want to give terrorists group therapy." :eyes:

[Texas_Kat]

55. Since Clark's 2 major negotiations (Bosnia and Kosovo) were successes

and Leiberman's main claim to fame may only be negotiating with other Senators over what to have for lunch, I'll have to go with Wes Clark's style for 10, Bob.

While the fighting in Bosnia and Kosovo is not threatening neighbors, the Senate food fights continue.

[Sparkly]

56. Exactly -- the nerve of Lieberman talking down to The General is astonishing. nt

[Totally Committed]

60. He supposedly went on FOX tonight (I was told by someone who watched it)

and said that General Clark had no business commenting on it because he didn't understand the ground war that is being fought there. -- Or words to that effect. I kid you not.

A 4-Star General no understanding a ground war... only in Joementum's feeble, sick mind.

TC

[Donna Zen]

75. Here's the pity

There are many faux viewers with eyes permanently glazed-over just nodded in agreement. I've run out of negative words to describe joementum but feeble and sick work well. If there was any doubt (which there shouldn't be) that Joe is 100% republican, only a bushista counters getting caught in lies and stupidity by telling a bigger dumber lie.

[Clark2008]

66. Warm embraces? Like THIS one, eh, Joe?

[stevietheman]

68. LIEberman and nobody has proof that Iran is our "enemy".

It's all a bunch of bullshit.

We need to engage them and see what can happen.

Until we've even tried, talk of military action is not only irresponsible, it's near treasonous, as using our finest to fight another needless war is so utterly morally wrong I'm about to spit up blood thinking about my rage.

LIEberman needs to SHUT THE FUCK UP.

[FrenchieCat]

34. That's my General....kicking some worthless ChickenHawk politician's ass.....

Again!

[Auntie Bush]

41. Ahhhhh...what a cutie pie! Congratulations!

Funny how they talk about Gore and Thomson as possibly running....but they never ever mention Clark. The other night someone was asked if there was anyone else in the wings that might run as a Democrat...no mention of Clark. I could have slapped his silly face! :mad: :grr: :cry: :banghead:

[FrenchieCat]

46. That's done in purpose.....and if one was to ask the larger question as to why that is.....

the answer would certainly have to be...."because, that's not someone the media wants us to even think about. It would derail their various plans, none which includes a national defense strong Democratic candidate". The horserace they wish for would simply turn into a no brainer.

[Auntie Bush]

65. That was the most intelligent comment on this thread!

That is certainly the REAL reason. Plus the Corp Media want to handicap the Dems as much as possible in order to help elect another Rethug who will keep GE's military industrial complex flush with jobs/contracts and millions of dollars.

I also heard (don't know if it's true) that Clark once said he'd like to break up the big media Conglomerates if elected and that scared the sh*t out of them as that would deprive them of total control of the media. After he said that his name became non-existent or unspeakable.

[Dinger]

67. That's The Media's "Wes Clark Law"

Actually, it explains the "Wes Clark Law" pretty well.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3291980&mesg_id=3292051

[FrenchieCat]

72. Here's what Clark said

exactly....
http://www.rapidfire-silverbullets.com/2006/12/wes_clarks_feeling_on_media_co.html

Clark told the audience in Portsmouth's South Church that "I don't think it is in the American public interest to further consolidate the media." Answering this reporter's question, the candidate said media consolidation "is damaging to putting out diverse opinions and fostering public dialogue. ... We need to distribute the ownership in media. We need to have the fairness in broadcasting rules put back in place."

[Tom Joad]

45. Joe ain't the only crazy out there. Listen to "Jobless John" Bolton talk to aipac fans.

http://www.stopaipac.org/boltontape.htm (audio at link)

Former Ambassador Bolton: Let me turn now to the question of Iran and what I think the situation is there. The Security Council just passed a resolution. The resolution that the Security Council passed at the end of last month imposing certain limited sanctions on Iran, obviously the product of a long effort based on Iran’s refusal to comply with the earlier Security Council resolution that gave them until August 31st to cease their uranium enrichment activities. I’d have to say because I’m a private citizen and therefore a free man again, and these are my personal views, now, that this sanctions resolution is very disappointing. It is not as tough as I would have liked to have seen it. In many respects the Russians did an outstanding job from their point of view in protecting Iran, in narrowing the scope of the sanctions, in limiting the effectiveness, I think, of many of the things that we wanted to try and do to prevent the Iranians from continuing to make progress on their nuclear and ballistic missile programs.

I think the Iranian reaction to the sanctions resolution has been very telling in that respect, although they’ve passed a resolution in parliament to re-evaluate their relation with the International Atomic Energy Agency, they have not rejected the sanctions resolution, they have not done anything more dramatic, such as withdrawing from the nonproliferation treaty, or throwing out inspectors of the International Atomic Energy Agency, which I actually hoped they would do – that that kind of reaction would produce a counter-reaction that actually would be more beneficial to us.

[Tom Rinaldo]

47. I completely agree with you. The danger seems less present if it's just crazy Joe

But it's not just crazy Joe. His kind of thinking has gone unchallanged for far too long. Too many people are now willing to believe that Iran is just a hot bed of crazy Arabs (even if Iranians are actually Persians).

[Dinger]

48. Boy The "MSM" Sure Isn't Touching This. They Must Be Afraid,

that if they mention nomentum, they'll be obliged to mention Clark, and break the "Wes Clark Law."

[Sparkly]

50. "This kind of rhetoric is irresponsible..."

This kind of rhetoric is irresponsible and only plays into the hands of President Ahmadinejad, and those who seek an excuse for military action. What we need now is full-fledged engagement with Iran. We should be striving to bridge the gulf of almost 30 years of hostility and only when all else fails should there be any consideration of other options. The Iranians are very much aware of US military capabilities. They don't need Joe Lieberman to remind them that we are the militarily dominant power in the world today.

Only someone who never wore the uniform or thought seriously about national security would make threats at this point. What our soldiers need is responsible strategy, not a further escalation of tensions in the region. Senator Lieberman must act more responsibly and tone down his threat machine.

We cannot let people like Joe Lieberman dictate the terms of this debate.

That's our General! Run, Wes, Run -- and get YOUR voice heard in the debate!!!

[Donna Zen]

57. Lieberman bites back on faux

Someone at Atrios reports that this evening on faux, Lieberman asserted that General Clark doesn't understand the ground war in Iraq.

Whaddya think? Too much jo-crack or is it just neodementia?

[calteacherguy]

58. I think Lieberman is making a fool of himself. nt

[BootinUp]

59. I need to see a transcript, I am holding in my

incredible amazement until then for the full effect.

[Totally Committed]

61. I just posted about this upthread a bit!

Can you believe it? :hi:

Great minds and all that.........

TC

[Sparkly]

62. Lieberman saying 4-Star General Clark doesn't understand the ground war in Iraq,

implying that he, Lieberman, has a superior understanding of it, is like... like... like something that calls for a good analogy.

It's like Rush Limbaugh telling Bill Moyers he doesn't understand thoughtful broadcasting.
It's like Ann Coulter telling Charlize Theron she doesn't understand how to look glamorous.
It's like Bill O'Reilly telling Keith Olbermann he doesn't understand current events.
It's like Pat Robertson telling Darwin he doesn't understand evolutionary theory.
It's like Sean Hannity telling Al Gore and thousands of scientists they don't understand global warming.

Any others?

[Cameron27]

63. Not better than that!

:rofl: :rofl:

I'll keep thinking though!

[Hippo_Tron]

70. Like Dan Quayle telling a kid he doesn't understand spelling?

[Sparkly]

71. Nice one!!!

:thumbsup:

[BootinUp]

73. Or like Dan Quayle comparing himself to JFK?

:)

oops that really did happen.

[D23MIURG23]

76. How about W telling Robert Oppenheimer

That he doesn't understand "nucular physics"?

[Jai4WKC08]

77. DING DING DING DING

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner.

;)

[Dinger]

78. I'll Second That!

(Being "the" Dinger, after all;-)

[AX10]

79. Draft Dodger Lieberman thinks he knows more than a four star General?

:wtf: Lieberman has become a Republican Chickenhawk.

[Dinger]

80. Ya Know, Why Does fido (joe) Even Keep The Label?

It's an obvious lie. When was the last time he even voted with the Dems?? Bitter little "man".

[Divine Discontent]

74. I'd WEEP if he said he was running...

and the weeping would be from joy as he won election in a landslide!
the man is awesome! he says such productive short comments - something my beloved Kerry could've used a little bit more of. Kerry was amazing (after originally not being happy with him being our pick) to listen to in stump speeches, and he did better than Bush at the debates, but there's something about being able to get a point across in 2 sentences that is breath-taking!

www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable

[Handsome Pete]

81. I hate it when Uncle Joe is off his meds!

Cause, he says the dopiest things.

[Maraya1969]

82. These nit wits should take a lesson from North Korea.

When some journalist, (Andre Mitchell?) was able to go their recently she spoke with a group of leaders about US Korea relations. They told her that george bush's "axis of evil" talks inspired them to move forward with their nuclear bomb program. Why? Because they were scared!

So now all this dumb ass bullies are saying the same things about Iran. Do they think Iran is just sitting there hoping that it doesn't happen? No they are building up arsenals BECAUSE of the threats being make by these dip shits who know nothing about diplomacy.

[Imagevision]

83. Where was Gore's head at when he chose Lieberman as his running mate?? would he do it again?

[FredfromSpace]

86. KUDOS to Clark for this generous act of public service.

With the Dems locked in an unholy embrace with the LIEberman for the sake of the Senate, they seem to be able to say little, even after the creature's HIDEOUS BETRAYAL of both the Party and the American People in the Gonzales vote the other day.

Thank the Gods we have someone like Clark who is both free and willing to speak up against this war-mongerin menace to humanity.
:patriot:

[The Wizard]

87. I have a dream

Wes Clark with riding crop in hand standing over Bush, Cheney, Liebermann and the rest of the neocons, counting cadence as they do push-ups until they beg for mercy and agree to serve on the line with a combat unit for the duration of their "War on Terror."