Hillary is in outstanding position to win it all and nothing anyone at DU can change that

[Herman Munster]

Given the fact:

* She is the first serious female presidential candidate and 54% of voters are female.

* She has the machine behind her and will have more than enough money to compete viorously in every primary.

* She has been leading pretty much every democratic primary poll by significant margins. Even when she wasn't running in the last election cycle in 2003/2004.

* Her two main democratic challengers may be smart and talented but they are green. They don't have her political or life experience. They didn't cut their teeth battling travelgate, whitewater, healthcaregate, monicagate, impeachmentgate. They haven't been through the media and republican attack machine like she has and don't have her husband as a campaign strategist, fundraiser, and surrogate on the campaign trail.

* She is a superb debater. Every time she gets on a stage with the candidates she looks one step above the rest and improves her position.

* She is constantly underestimated in everything she does everywhere yet has razar sharp focus. She has to. She's female trying to break into the biggest boys club in the world. She has to work twice as hard as the boys. Notice she flies back to DC for all the important votes unlike some other candidates we know?

It's highly probable she will be our nominee. Certainly 50/50 or greater odds. So campaign and vote for whatever candidate you wish but don't for a second underestimate her. One thing I know is people who end up underestimating the Clinton's, end up sorry they did.

[babylonsister]

1. Yawn. Still too early for me. nt

[geoffisdem]

14. I hope and pray that she will win.

She has been in the main stream and she knows what the course of action needs to be done since Bush has screwed it all up.

[ElizabethDC]

19. Welcome, geoffisdem!

I agree - I hope she will win, too.

[emilyg]

36. i agree.

[Pachamama]

99. And I hope and pray she doesn't get the Dem nomination....

Nothing against her, but a Hillary Clinton Nomination means a Republican President in '08....and that is something we do not want, need or can survive....

[SergeyDovlatov]

141. repubs are salivating over Clinton and really hope she wins the primary n/t

[Clintonista2]

142. *Yawn*, Prove it.

The only apparent arguement against HRC on this forum is; "If she wins the nominations a republican will win." Stop the fear mongering, and prove it.

[roguevalley]

125. I agree. anything can happen. I hope it does. nothing like the

pretense of a horse race. especially since she has been touted in the press as the front runner since what? 2002? I want the illusion that I can have a choice.

[Writer]

165. There's a couple of people in this subthread who need naptime.

;)

[peace13]

2. All of this early positioning is in the 'thugs' favor.

They appear to be picking our candidate for us. She may win the nomination but she will be the easiest target come November. We will not survive the cut. Peace, Kim

[Herman Munster]

3. i say bullshit

I rather have someone experienced battling the republican smear machine than an unknown quantity.

[peace13]

9. Hillary is a city cousin to the rep. smear machine IMO, n/t

[krj44]

4. you may be right,but

can she withstand the swiftboating because its coming if she gets the nomination.

[William769]

16. For the one thousandth time, which Democratic nominee will not be swift boated?

That question has never been answered here BTW.

[Herman Munster]

18. well

I put my money on Hillary. When republicans attack the Clinton's, you know what happens?

Their polls numbers go UP, UP, UP.

[Labors of Hercules]

114. that is a bloody good point.

Never seen people who could spin bullshit into gold the way they can...

[Botany]

5. Guess there is no use in even trying to support anybody else

Oh no ..... what is the use .... Clinton will win ....
done deal .... she is too strong .....

Please! :rofl:

[Martin Eden]

81. That's one sad donkey.

I say WINNIE THE POOH for PRESIDENT!!!

[Double T]

6. Where's Al Gore to shut everyone up!

[LSparkle]

23. Yeah, I'm with you there

But I'm afraid Al will only get in if Hillary stumbles and he sees an opportunity ... I don't think he wants to run against her (he knows the Clinton machine from the inside).

[Labors of Hercules]

115. Looks like he's already running against her, and she knows it. n/t

[Colobo]

7. Viva Obama.

That's all I gotta say.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

8. "* Her two main democratic challengers may be smart and talented but they are green."

High-level experience

HRC: 6+ years in the senate
Edwards: 6 years in the senate
Obama: 2+ years in the senate

In order to believe she has more "experience" than Edwards you have to believe Laura Bush and Nancy Reagan also are very experienced and qualified to be president (they were first ladies of major states, unlike HRC). The only actual roles she had as first lady were being in charge of improving Arkansas' education system (which HRC's great leadership resulted in Arkansas going from 49th to 49th in education) and the health care debacle in the White House. She performed poorly where she had an actual role...

[rinsd]

12. The OP's point of experience was dealing with the GOP attack machine.

See here's the whole quote:

Her two main democratic challengers may be smart and talented but they are green. They don't have her political or life experience. They didn't cut their teeth battling travelgate, whitewater, healthcaregate, monicagate, impeachmentgate. They haven't been through the media and republican attack machine like she has and don't have her husband as a campaign strategist, fundraiser, and surrogate on the campaign trail.

Considering how Edwards handled the anti-Catholic blogger mess and the haircut, I would say the OP's not far off the mark.

[Labors of Hercules]

116. dingdingdingdingding! nt

[Alexander]

126. Like you say, it all goes back to Bill.

"They haven't been through the media and republican attack machine like she has and don't have her husband as a campaign strategist, fundraiser, and surrogate on the campaign trail."

Once again, the Hillary fans prove my point. If she never met Bill and was Hillary Rodham or Hillary Smith or something, she wouldn't have a chance.

Her record apart from being Bill Clinton's wife is none too impressive, with Senator Clinton being on the wrong side of quite a few major issues. She'd be way better than all of the Republicans, and would instantly get my vote if nominated, but I'd prefer to vote for somebody in 2008, not against somebody.

I don't like her approval ratings or narrow leads over largely unknown Republicans. Some candidates just come with too much baggage, and I hope the Democratic voters see that Clinton is one of them.

[Herman Munster]

148. don't agree

behind every good man is an even greater woman. It's highly probable Bill never would have acheived a fraction of his success without Hillary.

She cleaned up all his mistakes.

[LeFleur1]

177. Debacle?

"health care debacle in the White House."

The only reason the health care plan was a debacle when Hillary was in the White House as Bill's wife was because the good old boys patted her on the head and pretended no health care plan was needed in the US of A. There was no discussion, no debate, no interest. They just wanted her to get her shoes off and get back in the kitchen where she belonged.
Don't blame that on her.
She didn't take her shoes off and scurry to the kitchen. This time they just may have to deal with her from a different prospective.

[fed-up]

10. she has the blood of 600,000 Iraqis/almost 4,000 U.S. military & $1 TRILLION war debt on her hands

[beachmom]

11. Isn't there something called the primaries to decide that?

Meanwhile, a lot of issues are passing us by with the non-stop horse race on DU. We complain about the horse race mentality in the MSM, and then it's simply mimicked here. The Iowa caucus isn't until January. Is this all that GDP is going to be about for the next 7 months?

[HockeyMom]

13. She probably can, but as her constituent

I cannot vote for her, at least not in the Primary. Her war stance is too much of an issue with me to compromise. I voted for her twice as my Senator.

If she wins the Primary, then I will vote for her over ANY Republican, including Rudolph Giuliani.

For all it matters, I am moving to FLORIDA next week.

[Herman Munster]

22. you know what?

I have long passed the "idealist" phase. Yes, Hillary's vote was a mistake but it wouldn't have made any difference other than as a bullshit "I told you so" elementary school taunt. This was Bush's war. Not Hillary's. Hillary knows the electorate is not looking back 5 years in the past but towards the future and she has many realist proposals to extricate ourselves from Iraq and will be sending her husband all over the world as a roving ambassador to repair the damage done by Bush.

Bill and Hillary Clinton know politics. They both have core liberal ideals but know that we live in the real world and not kucinich-la-la-land. You have to work and many times battle republicans and blue-dog democrats to get anything accomplished in the congress and battle and battle and battle again.

They will enact the most liberal legislation possible given the climate of the nation and the constraints of the congress.

[Auntie Bush]

186. How that was in intelligent comment. Some people around here

can actually make realistic sense.

[TechBear_Seattle]

15. So if a majority of people pick Obama in the primaries/caucuses....

You are probably right. After all, the Democratic Party of Washington has announced that they will effectively boycott the state's presidential primary, so it is not like the voice of people have any relevance.

It looks like Mrs. Clinton is following the hallowed footsteps of Boss Tweed, Richard J. Daley and other prominent Democratic leaders. The really sad thing is how so many people here are actually gloating over it.

[William769]

17. There wouldn't be much gloating if...

She was not constantly attacked day in & day out on DU. Just some food for thought.

[TechBear_Seattle]

26. And Obama, Edwards, Kucinich, Gore and the rest are NOT constantly attacked here?

One of the reasons why I refuse to have anyting to do with this dog and pony show going on with the announced candidates: with all the mud flinging going on with the partisans and the candidates themselves, none of them will be capable of appearing clean by the time of the general election. That will A) help the Republicans and B) drive even more potential voters away from the polls (how many Americans voted for the winner of American Idol, compared to voted in the 2004 general election again?)

Declarations such as the one made by the OP give a very strong appearance that Clinton already has everything in the bag and that thoughtful consideration and the democratic process are irrelevant, unnecessary and a waste of resources. That arrogant attitude will come back to haunt Clinton, you can bet the farm.

[William769]

31. Not near as much as Mr.s Clinton.

And as I stated in another post here, no one on Du can change that, but the American public is different. I support her 100%, but I don't think she has it in the bag, thats why I hope she keeps up her strong campaign.

[Herman Munster]

37. getting better though

thankfully, this has been changing of late. It used to be practically 99 to 1 against Hillary on DU. I've noticed a lot more pro-Hillary posts in the last couple months at DU.

[William769]

38. I've been working overtime!

:rofl:

[Name removed]

92. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[William769]

128. I didn't admit to being paid.

Working overtime doesn't always mean you get paid, maybe more schooling would help you better understand that.

[ronnykmarshall]

162. I'm reminded of a line from "Erin Brochavich"

"Well considering that I have no education and no legal background, I just went out and performed over 600 blow jobs. I'm quite tired."

[truedelphi]

90. If I ever make it to Seattle, may I buy ya a beer for your comments

Part of my disdain for Hill is the party machine aspect of her positioning.

[BeyondGeography]

20. Lay off the green people; some of them are pretty tough

[William769]

21. I agree that no one on DU can change that.

But DU is but a very small part of the voting public. For what it's worth.

[Herman Munster]

25. and usually horribly horribly wrong

the nature of the "underground" mentality here is they favor "outsiders" that ultimately crash and burn ala Dean and dare I say Obama will be next in the line.

[William769]

28. I say Edwards will be the first to go.

[illinoisprogressive]

24. bwaaahahahahahahahaha - great joke headline. Hillary in outstanding position. hahahaa

[William769]

27. I don't see you disputing it.

:rofl:

[ShortnFiery]

30. All hail the DLC anointed Goddess ... we'll all get new shoes, when HRC snags the nomination!

:eyes:

[Tellurian]

39. No, but we'll all get a new President!

:rofl:

[ShortnFiery]

53. And he will be, once again, a republican thanks to the DLC's $$$ and promoters.

:cry:

[Tellurian]

56. How do you expect me to

rationalize irrational thinking?

[Critters2]

132. Zackly. If we nominate a neo-con, we'll get a neo-con prez

Not necessarily the one we nominate, though.

[CTLawGuy]

111. yeah

President Romney :eyes:

[William769]

44. We alsoo get a new toaster oven!

[Tellurian]

94. Did you mean a chicken in every pot? ;)

[elfin]

29. It is simple -- if she wins the nomination -- we lose.

Big. Despite their craziness, either Romney or F. Thompson or even Rudy have crossover appeal and are not nearly as "polarizing" as Hillary. The media will slobber all over them and ignore their lies and then add in voter suppression and smear and fear and they win easily Hilary has NO crossover appeal due to the unfortunate fact that her negatives are in cement through no real fault of her own.

Yes, she would be a better Pres. than any Republican --- but we will never know.

[Arugula Latte]

131. I agree -- she will rally the 'pukes like no one or nothing else.

They are dispirited and demoralized because Bush has turned everything into bird crap. However, if Hillary gets nominated, they have something to bring them out of their spider holes.

Obama, on the other hand, seems to have a great appeal to many segments that you wouldn't necessarily expect to get behind him.

[Czolgosz]

32. The nomination maybe; the general election causes me more doubt.

[OHdem10]

33. Your analysis is pretty accurate. I , too, have watching all

campaigns and am close to reaching the same conclusion.

However, I believe it is too early for a final decision.
Too much can happen between now and when Primary officially
begins.

[iamahaingttta]

34. Good for her!

I still won't vote for her.

[BikeWriter]

35. IMO, she will face stiffer opposition than anyone except Obama.

[Tellurian]

43. I doubt they can throw anything at her she hasn't seen before..

Theres a big difference when you're in a fight and not dealing from weakness. She's strong, has her war machine organized and poised to return fire...and she has Bill!

[William769]

46. She also has me and you!

:hi:

[Tellurian]

51. Thats US!!

backatcha! :hi:

[liberal renegade]

88. don't leave me out.....

[Tellurian]

93. You're IN...

"high fives"

[ShortnFiery]

58. "... her war machine ... "

IMO, that description is less than unfortunate ... just sad. :thumbsdown:

[Tellurian]

62. I guess if you've always been a bystander and never a participant..

it's a little scarry for the watchers. I've been involved personally and I know what it takes..

you know what you can do with that thumb...

[ShortnFiery]

64. I'm a member of my local Democratic Party and a former AD Army Officer.

Having a woman as President would be excellent, but NOT another Margaret Thatcher wannabe.

Ask Brits who are members of The Labor Party what they think of that old WAR HORSE, Ms. Thatcher?

[Tellurian]

87. Hillary is nothing like Margaret Thatcher...

for you to think she is, is ridiculous on it's face..

now I know your just repeating spin spun from Talking Points!

you haven't had a breakthrough yet, I can wait!

[Tellurian]

124. Ah, I stood up to the establishment...you worked for the establishment..

big difference...see, I knew you never fought a war by yourself.

[BikeWriter]

71. I know some Democrats who would rather vote Independant...

than vote for someone who'd supported the war.

[Zodiak]

40. Given the fact:

that her stated policies will not abate the downward spiral this country has found itself in, but at best would only provide a treading water situation while we descend into economic collpase due to insolvency and corporate greed.

Why should I be pleased?

The fact remains that her stated policies (when they can be pinned down) are really more of the same crap that has gotten this country into such a mess in the first place. For that reason alone she must be opposed vehemently.

If she gets the Presidency, America loses....the corporate Dems will have two branches of government and their agenda is not friendly to the poor nor the middle-class. They'll play pussy-foot with the pukes and we will have more progress towards corporate control. There is one thing that unites the DLC and the pukes....and that is hatred for "liberals", "grassroots" and "activists"....that means us, you know.

If she gets the nomination, she could very well lose because of her strong negatives, epecially in the South where the Democrats need to make in-roads. Then we get a Republican because we once again banked on a triangulator and pissed it away...just like we did for the last 4 election cycles.

Doesn't matter....either way we're screwed....best to not nominate her.

[Mojambo]

41. And the number one reason why she's in a strong position...

The corporate establishment doesn't fear her.

They know she'll play ball.

[Tellurian]

45. No, I don't think thats right..

I think you've got it backwards...They are the ones that have to play ball.

Congress is Demo controlled. Pick up 10 more seats next cycle and they'll be shakin in their hip boots.

[Critters2]

133. Hillary is owned by the corps

Hill and the whole DLC.

[nostalgicaboutmyfutr]

42. Unfortunately.....

She is not a leader....

Not all woman will vote for her...

she has no spine...

She has no vision...

How much longer do you think bill will be around?

Voting for her because of her connection to Bill is the wrong thing for any one related to another politician....

She combats being underestimated by being "focused"?

I just don't think any senator has the clout/experience/leadership to become prez.....

Besides if you want to play the gender card there are several other woman much better qualified.....without being beholden to all the donors from whom she has received money...

[Tellurian]

47. On another Planet perhaps..

But here, we're all set!

[tammywammy]

48. Nothing is set in stone

I know plenty of people that do not want Hillary to get the nomination.

And saying that well, she's female and 54% of voters are female is just ridiculous. Just b/c she's a woman doesn't mean I (as a woman) am automatically going to vote for her. Actually no one that I know that follows politics is a Hillary backer.

And really, we're so far out, who knows what's going to happen between now and February. :shrug: I have the candidate that I like the most, but he may do something so outrageous that everyone just drops him. :shrug:

[Jim Warren]

49. OK, so if I got this right then

It goes: Bush>Clinton>Bush>Clinton........and then what, I forget.

[Critters2]

134. Then another Bush

This is so much better than Democracy!

[Ethelk2044]

50. We Will Lose the General Election with her

[Tellurian]

52. Right now, all I care about is the Primarys..

one can only hope!

[calteacherguy]

55. I pray most Dems to not share your short-sighted sentiment, or we will likely lose in 08'.

You seem to care more about getting Hillary nominated than increasing our odds of getting a progressive Democrat in the White House.

[Tellurian]

61. Believe me we are gearing up at home

for the real fight..the GE! I've never been accused of being short sighted. If anything I am "too" farsighted and scare people with tru-blue predictions. (I don't think farsightedness is a bad thing-- btw)

I converted two die-hard Republicans today. They are the arrogant types with a high end real estate business and didn't want to listen to me a year ago when I told them home sales were heading for a severe downturn...They bought up investment RE too high and are not only stuck with it but haven't sold a ding, dang, thing since February. Home-sellers are living in the boom of yesteryear and as a result "RE agents" are throwing good money after bad in wasted advertising on overpriced homes.

[calteacherguy]

66. Well, congratulations on your conversions.

There hasn't been a *severe* downturn in home sales, at least not nationally. Perhaps in your local market things are different than the national average. Real estate always moves in cycles. The long-term mega-boom couldn't last forever.

But more to the point (this isn't a real estate forum), I don't think farsightedness is a bad thing, either. That's why I will fight like hell to help nominate a candidate with an excellent chance of winning, based on what we know going in.

[Tellurian]

74. Thank You..

And yes, there has been a downturn in the RE market in the NE since the beginning of the year. But, as you said this isn't a RE Forum and I won't digress...(just a side note...we have an economic forum here on DU...you can ck it out for the bad news..)

Republicans are the most fearful people on earth and the hardest to convince to jump over to the Democrats even for one election cycle. My point was, when it starts hurting their pocketbooks is when you have their full attention...and that day came..a small victory, but a victory nonetheless.

We know everything there is to know about Hillary and Bill. There have been hundreds of books written about Hillary besides her own autobiography, Hillary Clinton's, 'Living History'. The two newest books released a few weeks ago are a rehash of spun trash and their contents have hardly laid a glove on her. I expect more of the same from the upcoming movie...which I predict will be a "flop" at the movie theaters..

Hillary has a strong work ethic, excellent memory skills, speaks without notes, and incredible problem solving skills. She is way ahead of most of the field already having ideas formulated to remedy many pressing issues that will improve the quality of life for Americans. And most importantly, she is a proven winner.

[Critters2]

136. Getting thugs to vote for Hillary hardly qualifies as "conversion". nt

[Tellurian]

151. Right, I forgot.-When they pull the lever marked Hillary Clinton in the Primary...then it will count

[calteacherguy]

54. If she is the nominee it will be very difficult to win the General Election.

Most people don't like her; her unfavorablity ratings are the highest of any candidate in either party.

[Tellurian]

63. I'm not worried..

I have confidence in myself I've made the right choice.

YOU...not so much!

[calteacherguy]

67. No worries.

I don't have confidence in you, either! :hi:

[Tellurian]

77. As time goes by..

you will! :)

[calteacherguy]

147. Hubris. nt

[Tellurian]

155. see post #89..

[liberal renegade]

89. you're gonna need a big slice of humble pie

come January 2009

[Colobo]

57. GOBAMA!!! GOBAMA!!! GOBAMA!!!

[Faux pas]

59. Okay, so if she wins, what can I expect from her to make things

in this country better? What I know about her is that she's in the corporate pocket, that doesn't help me one flippin' bit. I hope she doesn't win, I sick of this stay the course bullshit, and that's what I see coming from hillary. She too far right of left for my taste.

[Tellurian]

68. First of all...

Stop believing the BS that gets peddled wholesale here on a daily basis.

Hillary is a "Moderate Left of Center"..here, I'll show you how her voting record shakes out!

According to Hillary's Official Voting Record she is considered a

Moderate Liberal standing just Left of Center.

Voting Record and Score:

http://www.issues2002.org/Hillary_Clinton.htm




Moderate Liberal/ Left of Center

[William769]

82. Remember people here on DU are just like republicans on one issue

If you say it enough times, it's gotta be true. Of course it will be their downfall just like it is for Republicans.

[Tellurian]

86. Yes, much like concrete..

chip, chip, drip, drip...

[Faux pas]

109. I guess this is why I don't cotton to her....

this is where i come out on the political scale.

[Tellurian]

156. Who is your candidate..

I didn't know any Libertarians were running..unless you mean Gravel?

[Faux pas]

167. Ha, I've been waiting for a viable Lib candidate for like forever.

Guess that's why I'm a registered Dem. Kucinich appeals to me the most, less of a Party guy and more of a People guy. I know he has a snowball's chance of getting nomination. I'm really not impressed with any of the Top Three. If Gore ran I'd vote for him. That's where I stand at the moment, it's still early in the game.

[Tellurian]

171. Like your morphing cave man graphic..

keep in touch!

[Faux pas]

179. Thanks, I think it's spot on....LOL n/t

[PBass]

60. The future is unwritten....

Hillary is in a strong position, yes.

And she can definitely win the primary, and she can (IMO) definitely win the geneal election. I'll say it again, I have no doubt she can win.

Lets see if the othe candidates can step forward and persuade the country to favor someone else. That's what we have primary campaigns for.

During the last debate, Obama got the most air time of any Dem candidate... a perfect opportunity for him to make his case in a compelling way. I didn't see the debate but conventional wisdom says that he missed the opportunity. How many more chances will he get? Sometimes, opportunity knocks but once.

[zulchzulu]

65. If you want the best unifier for the GOP, nominate Senator Clinton

It's that simple.

Ford spent a lot of money trying to get people to buy an Edsel.

As for your gratuitous assumptions, do you have ANY data to prove it? Also, if you're a supporter of her campaign, that's pretty arrogant of you.

As for reality, I have yet to meet a supporter in real person of her campaign. The only people I have met who were leaning towards her candidacy have switched to support Obama.

[Tellurian]

70. Don't be surprised if the Obama supporters switch back by Primary time..

people are unsure of who Obama is and what he stands for. He's an unproven candidate.. that is their primary worry.

[zulchzulu]

102. So people who support Obama because of his message and record...

...are unsure what he stands for... so he's an unproven candidate with actually more experience than either Edwards or Clinton...

Oh.

OK.

Excuse me while I head back to Planet Earth...

:rofl:

[Tellurian]

153. What message?

Vote for me, Republicans like me?

[Critters2]

137. I know who Hillary is

and that is my primary worry.

[William769]

84. Speaking of proof, wheres yours?

"If you want the best unifier for the GOP, nominate Senator Clinton".

[zulchzulu]

98. What do you see with this picture?

For hints, click on the picture...

[William769]

100. That makes no sense.

How can that unify the GOP? Wheres the Beef?

[zulchzulu]

103. So, please tell me how the Clintons are liked by the GOP

All you have to do is turn on Fox News or any AM radio near you. Do yourself a favor and call up Rush Limbaugh or Michael Savage and ask them if they like the Clintons. Go down to ANY local church and try handing out Clinton bumperstickers.

Better yet, go to a local summer event in your town with Clinton literature and stickers from the site. Nobody is stopping you. Then tell us what happened.

After you do that, we'll talk about the obvious reaction you will get.

[William769]

113. You you use you OP to link Hillary with the Murdoch

You can't have it both ways thats why it makes no sense. So which is it? BTW "call up Rush Limbaugh or Michael Savage and ask them if they like" any Democrat. :eyes:

[Arugula Latte]

158. I have heard little but negativity when her name comes up.

This is across a wide swath of Democrats -- from the detached, non-political type to moderates to lefties. I would say I've talked to about 30 people specifically about her. Of those, only one was on board for her and one was okay with her or any of the other nominees. The others expressed disgust that she might be the candidate -- and most of these are people who would overwhelmingly love to see a woman president.

[Alamom]

69. The best thread I've seen in a long time. #4 eom

[Texas_Kat]

72. Ah, just what I wanted to hear

my vote doesn't count and HC is inevitable. Yeah, right.

[Vidar]

73. She is the DLC candidate. Of course, she'll win--unfortunately.

[truedelphi]

91. You have to admit,if there was another katrina style disaster,

She would do much better than Bush

but in so many other ways, you are right.

[Vidar]

123. She's very capable & competent, but she's on the wrong side of

way too many issues.

[CTD]

75. Might as well let Bush stay in office for 4 more years...

Same shit. Invade Iran. Stay in Iraq indefinitely. Value corporate donors over all else.

Enough is enough.

[bonito]

76. LOL

:popcorn: :rofl: :nopity:

[mopinko]

78. all that 54% is NOT going to vote for her. lots of women

do not like her or support her. me for one. and i'm a dem. if you think republican women are going to vote for her, i got some nice swamp land in florida for you.

[mnhtnbb]

145. Just because 54% have tits does not mean we all prefer someone else with tits.

[mopinko]

166. well, that's one way to put it.

after seeing what happened to the e.r.a., back in the day, i understand that many, many women would NEVER vote for a woman.

[mnhtnbb]

172. There probably are some women who will never vote for another woman

because they've been brainwashed to think women aren't 'fit' for the job.

There are others of us who fought the battle for equality in the workplace
and aren't going to vote for a woman, just because she's a woman.

[FatDave]

Can she win Iowa?

Maybe NH. I seem to remember Howard Dean looking really good until, you know, people actually started to vote. What's that saying about chickens and hatching?

[William769]

85. Did Bill Clinton Win Iowa?

[Labors of Hercules]

117. Hillary isn't Bill. nt

[William769]

119. That wasn't the question.

[Tom Joad]

79. The machine behind her is the war machine.

Listen to the noise.

[blm]

80. And will YOU hold her to holding BushInc accountable or will Bush be protected

yet again, like his father and his cronies?

Funny how none of you horserace watchers seem to post or even care about honest government and accountability for corruption.

You only care if Hillary beats other Dems.

You - and McAuliffe - and Carville, I guess:

This talk by historian Douglas Brinkley occurred in April 2004:


http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354


Whom does the biographer think his subject will pick as a running mate? Not Hillary Rodham Clinton. "There's really two different Democratic parties right now: there's the Clintons and Terry McAuliffe and the DNC and then there's the Kerry upstarts. John Kerry had one of the great advantages in life by being considered to get the nomination in December. He watched every Democrat in the country flee from him, and the Clintons really stick the knife in his back a bunch of times, so he's able to really see who was loyal to him and who wasn't. That's a very useful thing in life."




http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward



Did Carville Tip Bush Off to Kerry Strategy (Woodward)

By M.J. Rosenberg |

I just came across a troubling incident that Bob Woodward reports in his new book. Very troubling.
On page 344, Woodward describes the doings at the White House in the early morning hours of Wednesday, the day after the '04 election.

Apparently, Kerry had decided not to concede. There were 250,000 outstanding ballots in Ohio.

So Kerry decides to fight. In fact, he considers going to Ohio to camp out with his voters until there is a recount. This is the last thing the White House needs, especially after Florida 2000.

So what happened?

James Carville gets on the phone with his wife, Mary Matalin, who is at the White House with Bush.

"Carville told her he had some inside news. The Kerry campaign was going to challenge the provisional ballots in Ohio -- perhaps up to 250,000 of them. 'I don't agree with it, Carville said. I'm just telling you that's what they're talking about.'

"Matalin went to Cheney to report...You better tell the President Cheney told her."

Matalin does, advising Bush that "somebody in authority needed to get in touch with J. Kenneth Blackwell, the Republican Secretary of State in Ohio who would be in charge of any challenge to the provisional votes." An SOS goes out to Blackwell.
>>>>>>>>




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg




Wonder why?


http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html

[ProSense]

83. You're probably right. Still,

after this and this, I'd say it's probably because of this, this, and this.

JMO.

[AtomicKitten]

95. She's a forced to be reckoned with, but it ain't over til the fat lady sings.

anything could happen

[bagrman]

96. She was choosen along time ago,

[Awsi Dooger]

97. Just don't be in denial that she has almost zero margin for error in November

I've been through this twice recently in Nevada, nominating outstanding Democratic women for governor. Both were polarizing figures and were defeated soundly. Jan Jones was a high profile mayor of Las Vegas who lost badly in '98, and Dina Titus was a longtime state senator and minority leader who lost by 4 points last year to a clod named Jim Gibbons.

In each case, Nevada Democrats tried to argue the excellence of the nominee was the trump card over concerns like electability. Then the general election cycle showed up and all the original concerns were front and center, and impenetrable.

Granted, Nevada tilts to the right while the nation now leans generically in our direction. My worry is getting Hillary over the hump in at least one of the critical states -- Ohio, Florida, Virginia. We can't win minus any of those. The math simply doesn't add up. They are base conservative states with no history of electing women to high office.

[cascadiance]

101. And if Gore gets in the race he will probably win!

... and likely there's nothing she and DU by itself can do to change that either! See how easy it is to talk in meaningless absolutes?

[Colobo]

104. GIVE ME THE O, GIVE ME THE B, GIVE ME THE A...

:bounce:

[Labors of Hercules]

118. You are really tripping me out! LOL.

:rofl: :popcorn:

[William769]

127. Given your responses in this thread.

He needs more than a cheer leader, alot more.

[ripple]

105. Your last line doesn't help your cause

It just feeds that *beware of the Clintons* crap, implying that they will do anything to become elected. I agree with much of your rationale for the primaries. The problem is, the primaries don't mean jack shit, if our candidate can't pull it out in the general.

Hillary is well-liked, but more largely well-hated in this nation. It's easy to change the former, but virtually impossible to change the latter- at least enough to turn it into a vote. This is a problem, my friend.

[Czolgosz]

106. Hillary '08 is in a position not so very different from Gephardt '04.

[MattSh]

107. 2003 Headline: Lieberman is in outstanding position to win it all and nothing anyone...

at DU can change that.

Oh, but wait. We DID change that.

But I do agree with this part.....

So campaign and vote for whatever candidate you wish but don't for a second underestimate her.

But the likely winner again, both in the primaries and general election, will be the one anointed by the "mainstream" media.

[NobleCynic]

108. The whole inevitability argument is working rather well for Hillary

But I dread the general election if Hillary wins. It is difficult at times to comprehend just how misogynistic this country still is. I can almost guarantee you Nevada will go Republican if Hillary wins the nomination. In our Governor's race in 2006, Gibbons (R) did everything possible for a Republican to screw up during a campaign (Illegal immigrant housekeeper, FBI investigations into corruption charges, an alleged assault against a cocktail waitress, etc.) and still won based on the idea that Titus (D) was a bitch. She's a strong woman, but that is how ANY strong woman comes off to a majority of the voting public, both men and women. It isn't fair, it isn't right, but in this cow town state, it is truth. Given how closely contested Nevada is in terms of numbers, our Assembly is Democratic and Senate Republican, it says something about the American mindset in general.

I've been asking around my non-Dem friends, I've already had people tell me they won't vote for Hillary because she is viewed exactly the same way, but the same people voiced no opposition to Obama. This, in the state that used to be known as the Mississippi of the West. Biden surprisingly was also mentioned to me by an independent I know.

On the other hand, this will probably be the best chance in a generation for a women to successfully run for president.

[ShortnFiery]

110. No one's more Pro- Women than myself, but not for HRC: a pro-corporate warmonger. n/t

[LWolf]

112. There are many things I cannot change.

I will not walk away from my responsibilities as a citizen because someone has pronounced the great doom of inevitability upon me, though.

I am not hearing the support for Hillary out in the real world that the polls seem to indicate. I'm glad for that; I wouldn't vote for her if she was the only choice on the ballot.

I'll vote for the best candidate, regardless of how anyone else votes.

[churchofreality]

120. High five!

All you haters will thank us later when Hillary becomes one of the best and most popular presidents, gets us out of Iraq, and gets healthcare done.

[hippiechick]

121. aaa hahahahahahaaaa

:rofl:

[elizm]

122. And its post like this that make me more determined NOT to vote for her...

You really do not do your candidate any good with arrogant statements like....and there is nothing anybody here at DU can do to change that.

[William769]

129. Like this post would have made a difference.

Yea right. :eyes:

[elizm]

130. I'm sorry....

I do not believe that I was addressing you.

[William769]

138. No you were not.

But I was addressing you.

[elizm]

139. It's sad....

...That you would spend your time lurking on threads just to attack people who usually try to ignore you. Is your life that empty? Guess I'll just have to hit the ignore button to rid myself of the annoyance.

[William769]

140. Be my guest,

But you still won't get a free pass from me.

[Arugula Latte]

159. I agree, elizm. The more the pro-Hillary people post about her, the more it turns me off to her. nt

[ronnykmarshall]

161. Hmmm?

Ironic that the more Obama people attack Hillary, the more it turns me off to him.

[ChiciB1]

164. DITTO, DITTO, DITTO... I've ALWAYS Felt That The Repukes

just "can't wait" for her to be the nominee!!

For me, I'm sick of the Bush, Clinton, Clinton, Bush, Bush and "maybe" Clinton stuff again!! Let's give it a rest!! We have more than TWO families in this country! There are other reasons I don't support her, but I keep them to myself because I don't really like "bashing" our candidates! Just a quirk of mine, since we are supposed to be Democrats and all that stuff!

Don't like giving others ammo from our side to use against us!!!

[ProudDad]

135. Two Words

Thomas Dewey

[JNelson6563]

143. and nothing anyone at DU can change that

Well now that depends.....

Those who's activism starts and stops with DU, yeah you are right, no amount of posting here will change anything.

But let us not forget there are those out here in the real world who have influence and make things happen. Those are the ones who can change things and often do.

Just throwin' that out there for ya.

Julie

[IndianaGreen]

144. Not only is Hillary a polarizer, but more importantly, there won't be an ABB in '08 as it was in '04

Hillary's cavalier and reckless attitude in favor of first use of atomic weapons, as in the case of Iran ("all options on the table"), together with her support of continuing the occupation of Iraq beyond 2009, make her unacceptable to the peace movement.

To make matters worse, Hillary is the only Democratic candidate that can unify the party, the Republican Party at that, while fracturing the Democratic Party.

[Tellurian]

150. Thank goodness you can vote for DK in the primary..

takes alot of the pressure off Hillary bashing.

[Alcibiades]

146. If elected, she will get zero done for us

Absolutely nothing. No healthcare, no end to the War in Iraq, no investigation of the Bushies, no end to the deficit, nothing. Clinton part II will be so dogged by the right wing from day 1 they will be on defense.

Just say no to the Clenis.

[Tellurian]

157. And you know this how?

any links for more info?

[Alcibiades]

169. From our collective experience of the first Bush administration

Hillary's a DLC type Democrat with a strange reputation (among the right) as the farthest left-wing kook imaginable. They hate the Clintons the way we hate Bush. The legacy of the Clinton administration is far more shallow than it could have been, precisely because the right was able to use the politics of personality to such effect (and because Bill's zipper problem gave them the ammunition they needed, something I warned anyone who would listen about during the primary, though, it turns out my choice, the rev Jackson, was little better on that score).

We are at a point where the Republicans have lost my Dad. That's good. We need someone other than a Clinton, in my opinion, or we'll just be bogged down in Whitewater part six and god knows what else. Senator Clinton would only energize the political enemy at precisely the point when they are tempted to take a breather from politics.

[Tellurian]

170. And common sense dictates..

we're not about to let the RW dictate who democrats will nominate for the Primary. We need the Clintons to ultimately destroy the VRW and the Neoconic Republicans. They are the only ones who have proven themselves worthy from a position of weakness. Now, they are operating from a position of strength and have no fear of swiftboating because they come to us prepared, guns drawn and loaded for Bear.

[election_2004]

149. Great, let's all go home!

Seriously, it’s all over, folks. What’s the fucking point? Let’s just slit our wrists and throw away any non-Clinton campaign buttons. In fact, let’s stop voting altogether - - because apparently, Senator Clinton doesn’t NEED any of us at Democratic Underground to win the primaries or General Election. So, since that decision has already been made for us (and will presumably continue to, in future political cycles), then why should we even bother participating in the civic process? After all, Steven Spielberg and Madeline Albright know what’s best for us peons, so let’s just clam up from now on and let the political insiders call all the shots on every decision affecting our quality of life?

BTW, :sarcasm: in case anyone missed it.

In some ways, it’s Hillary Clinton’s *SUPPORTERS* who scare me more than Senator Clinton herself.

Certain HRC supporters at DU are indicative of this disturbing trend. There are about 3-4 individuals here (and they know who they are) who blow off any criticism of Senator Clinton by demonizing those of us who oppose her candidacy as simply being “misogynists” and/or “Far Leftists.” Then, others of her supporters are not necessarily as mean-spirited as the aforementioned individuals, but still come off as rather naïve by regurgitating empty platitudes based on the following tired mantras:

“Women will come out in droves to support her”
“She’s got the best political advisor in the country just a phone call away”
“They’ve thrown everything but the kitchen sink at her, and none of it’s stuck”
“She’s tough as nails”
“She’s the most qualified and most experienced”
“She’ll raise tons of money”
“She deserves our support and loyalty because she was ruthlessly attacked by the Right Wing ever since the 1990s, yet she continues to stand up and fight against them”

These are empty platitudes because none of Hillary’s cheerleaders bother to back up these claims with any substantive evidence. Instead, they proceed to bully and belittle anyone who DARES to takes issue with the suggestion that their goddess is the “most qualified and most experienced” candidates in the field. Some even admit to gloating about their candidate’s apparent invincibility (see Post #17 in this thread). All of these attitudes of follow-the-leader Hero Worship (and arrogance toward those who don’t share their views) make me utterly sick.

Sen. Clinton’s supporters – and the MSM – basically operate using what I call the “Goldilocks” affect. First, they have positioned their queen as the most “moderate” candidate in the field (oh, but she’s really more liberal than she lets on - - ssssshh!, don’t tell the soccer moms!) - - oh, Gravel, Kucinich, and Obama are “too liberal” . . . but Richardson, Edwards, and Dodd are “too conservative” . . . but Hillary Clinton, of course, is ideologically smack in the middle of the Democratic field, and that makes her “just right” . . .

How conveeeenient.

Next, they paint every non-conservative who opposes Hillary Clinton’s candidacy as irrationally basing that assertion on (buying into) Right-Wing Talking Points and “unfairly” holding her IWR vote against her (because, apparently, IWR is the *ONLY* issue that us “Hillary haters” care about - - :sarcasm: again). I find that insulting. Speaking for myself, I don’t buy the RW horseshit that Hillary Clinton is a “radical, gun-hating, lesbian, left-wing Communist” (and, as a gay male, it offends me that they frame being homosexual as a rhetorical insult to begin with). Additionally, I could care less how any of the Democrats (or Republicans) voted on IWR. That’s not to say I agree with the war (because I don’t) or that I don’t care about the troops (because I do) - - but I simply don’t use IWR as a litmus test when deciding who to support in the Democratic primaries. Although I do think it is rather laughable how Senator Clinton is trying to have her cake and eat it too when it comes to how she voted versus how she feels now (“I trusted President Bush to do the right thing” or “I had to vote that way in 2002 because the American people wouldn’t have supported a dove for president, especially a woman”). But this is the same woman who claims she supports implementing campaign spending limits in future presidential election cycles - - while basically saying, simultaneously, “Oh, but first, let me spend all the money I can raise so that *I* can become president - - then we’ll worry about making the changes.”

If she becomes president, I fear a political climate even more contentious than the one that Chimpy has currently facilitated. Any criticism of actual policies in a Hillary Clinton Administration will be written off with variations of the following rationalizations:

- “She’s doing what she needs to, as a woman, to survive in a misogynistic political climate”
- “She can’t be *TOO LIBERAL*, or else she won’t get reelected”
- “You lefties need to quit whining; no president is going to be perfect and cater to your every whims”
- “Every president has to make compromises; you can’t expect her to fix everything after what the Republicans has put us through”
- “She knows what she’s doing; she’s really more liberal than she lets on”
- “I trust Hillary Clinton, and I trust myself for trusting her”
- “She was a victim, after her husband made a mistake in their private life; quit being mean to her!”
- “I wouldn’t be supporting her unless I was confident she will make the best decisions and win people over” ALL ABOUT YOU]
- “Shut up! - - at least she’s not Bush”

Well, sure . . . Paris Hilton would be an improvement over Bush!

So basically: A.) blame the Republicans for any bad decision she might make (oh, but wait - - Hillary Clinton won’t make bad decisions!), B.) paint liberals and progressives as being too demanding (because we all know how conciliatory Joe Lieberman and his ilk have been!), C.) pat oneself on the back for being a Hillary Clinton supporter and having “good judgment” as a voter (gosh, why not just let “The_Soul_Patrol” install Taylor Hicks as president), and, D.), if all else fails, accuse anyone who disagrees with you as being “sexist” and “misogynistic” (or brainwashed by the Republicans).

The ironic part is (before anyone tries to accuse me of being a Gravel/Kunich Fanatic . . . even though they’re not my first choices), I’m personally even not all that liberal in my own ideology; yet, I sympathize with the progressives and liberals on DU and elsewhere who will have to deal with this bullshit from the Hillarista apologists between 2009-2017.

They rationalize and make excuses for everything she does, while glorifying everything she says. She votes against John Roberts and amends it by saying “I hope he proves me wrong if he’s confirmed” - - and, like clockwork, the kool-aid drinkers proceed to gape at Senator Clinton with exclamations of “Wow, she’s good.” Her supporters castigate anyone who refers to her as “Hillary,” even though that’s how she promotes herself on her campaign website. During the Terri Schiavo saga (also MSM-perpetuated, by the way), Hillary Clinton simply says NOTHING about the issue - - all of a sudden, she is acting “shrewd” by choosing to remain silent about Schiavo, because she doesn’t want to hurt her chances at her *INEVITABLE* presidential run; that’s right, folks - - Senator Clinton is now actively “shrewd” for simply SAYING NOTHING about a controversy that the corporate media created in the first place! She surrounds herself with sleazy people as her advisors; if a male does this, he’s either evil or stupid - - but because Senator Clinton does it, she’s suddenly “a brilliant lady.”

I swear, Hillary Clinton could take a dump in the middle of the stage, and they would find something positive to say about it!

There are other factors to consider:

First, if you haven’t figured it out already, I’m very uncomfortable with the idea of the likes of Carville/Begala/McAuliffe/Penn having such a strong influence in the next presidential administration . . . but they’re part of Clinton’s inner circle, so let’s face it: if she becomes president, they’re going to have their hands in the cookie jar.

Secondly, while Clinton may do just fine nationally (in churning out an electoral victory), she will most likely hurt downticket Democrats in more localized races where Republicans will effectively demonize their opponents as “members of the party of Hillary.” If Hillary Clinton is the Democratic presidential nominee, she will probably win the General Election (the MSM will see to that; gotta exploit the “excitement” of having the Clintons back in the White House for eight more years), but we can say goodbye to Mary Landrieu in Louisiana, whoever runs for Johnson’s seat in South Dakota, and who-knows-how-many Democratic incumbents in the House of Representatives who come from “red” and “purple” regions. Watch as wishy-washy split-ticket voters simultaneously vote for Hillary Clinton but also lend their support to Susan Collins (in Maine), Gordon Smith (in Oregon), Lamar Alexander (in Tennessee), and Norm Coleman (in Minnesota) as a way to maintain a “balance of government” and “keep the liberals in line, with Hillary at the helm”; this mindset will spill over to many races for the U.S. House of Representatives. The sad part is, these are the types of races that might otherwise be winnable if Hillary Clinton wasn’t at the top of the ticket.

Additionally, the MSM whores will frame every political news story as “the Right-Wing vs. Hillary.” They will make everything all about Hillary. They will endlessly repeat how President Hillary Clinton represents progress for women, while insinuating that anyone (conservative, moderate, or liberal) who opposes or disagrees with Hillary or her agenda is automatically “anti-woman.” They will widen a social gender divide by invoking the specter of “sexism” every time President Hillary Clinton faces a political conflict. There are other Democratic women (i.e. Kathleen Sebelius, Blanche Lincoln, Janet Napolitano, Debbie Stabenow) who, if they were president, could handle the media’s baiting smoothly. Hillary Clinton, however, doesn’t have the personality or reputation to bring diplomacy to this type of tough situation.

Finally, Hillary Clinton clearly only entered the U.S. Senate so she could become the first woman elected president. This smacks of elitism. Why else would she run for an open seat in a safely blue state she’d never even lived in? If anyone honestly believes she did it all “out of the goodness of her heart,” then I’ve got some beachfront condos in Siberia to sell you. Are we honestly supposed to believe that there wasn’t ONE SINGLE formidable New York Democrat who could have taken on Giuliani (before the corrupt brokers of the New York Democratic Party “cleared the field” for their new queen)? Get real!

Hillary is definitely smart, but one thing she does NOT have is integrity. She’s hardly a visionary. She seems to have been a competent senator and a good voice for the people of New York (aside from IWR), but she hasn’t done anything particularly groundbreaking in the U.S. Senate. If she takes the White House, it will be due to two superficial reasons: because she’s a woman (and people feel a female president is long overdue), and because of who she’s married to (and people’s senseless rock star worship for “the Big Dog”).

So get ready for it: eight years of men and women at each other’s throats (and the pundits laughing all the way to the bank, while this nation’s REAL problems remain largely ignored or unresolved), because any man who doesn’t agree with Hillary Clinton 100% of the time or who questions her judgment is either “uncomfortable with powerful women,” “misogynistic,” and/or “anti-woman.” And any woman who questions President Hillary Clinton’s judgment is “self-hating” and has been “brainwashed by the Republicans.” That’s the pro-Clinton propaganda that will run rampant from many people here at DU (and one reason why I won’t be around anymore for discussions). Eight years of the Republican spin doctors riling up their socially conservative wingnut base due to their irrational hatred of Hillary Clinton and her “Communist liberalism.” And who will probably suffer for it? . . . Hillary’s vice-president, when he runs in 2016. How conveeeenient. Just like the Clintons’ allies decided to wait until after the 2006 midterms to circle the wagons around the Democratic Party against the Republican Party and call for a new savior to lead the Democrats out of the wilderness. And look who that new savior happens to be married to! Again, how conveeeenient.

The MSM pitting Americans against each other (and succeeding), all because of that “shrewd, brilliant, groundbreaking” gem known as Hillary Clinton.

May the deities help us all!

[Freddie Stubbs]

152. Yet in France a majority of women vote for Sarkozy instead of Ségolène Royal

Women voters shun Segolene Royal

Mon May 7, 2007 4:33PM BST
By Kerstin Gehmlich

PARIS (Reuters) - Socialist Segolene Royal failed to win over a majority of women voters in France's presidential election and may have paid a price for focusing too much on her gender at the expense of promoting her policies.

Only 48 percent of women voted for Royal, according to an Ipsos poll conducted on election day on Sunday, while 52 percent supported rightist rival and overall winner Nicolas Sarkozy.

The weak female support is a bitter personal blow for Royal, who had played up her feminist credentials throughout the campaign, frequently defending policies she would want "as a mother" and accusing critics of male chauvinism.

Some women said the glamorous Royal, a mother of four, had focused too much on the symbolism linked to becoming France's first female president.

more: http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKL0720523320070507?src=050707_0924_TOPSTORY_sarkozy_plots_strategy

[MadHound]

154. You may be right, she may very well win the primary

But that still doesn't mean that she is the best candidate out there, and frankly, depending on who she's up against in the generals, she could very well lose, badly. Her pro-war, pro-corporate stance is going to send the left wing of the party fleeing to the Greens or staying home. This is bad news for her campaign, since it is, in general, the left wing that actually does the human intensive jobs of phone banking, door knocking, etc. Not to mention how many votes will be lost to her.

In addition, her very name, Clinton, will insure a huge 'Pug/conservative turnout to keep her out of office. She will be overwhelmed quite frankly.

And finally, she won't be a good president for this country. We will stay in Iraq, and her economic policy will be as pro-corporate as her husbands, and the rich will get richer while the poor get poorer.

Hillary may very well get the primary, but that doesn't mean that she is some sort of political goddess. Her feet are of clay, and her policies aren't for the benefit of the people.

If she does get into the WH, by a miracle, it will be very interesting around here as her loyal supporters start defending policies that they would find unacceptable in any other president.

[election_2004]

180. Things will get worse

Hillary Clinton's defenders (not just on DU, but also offline, on TV, and at party gatherings across the country) will launch into full Pity City / BlameGame-ville attack mode, and ruthlessly shred anyone who doesn't tow the line by fully embracing all of Hillary Clinton's decisions.

Nope, we can't ever question her leadership - - she's SUPERWOMAN! :sarcasm:

It's sickening, and it reminds me how I support individual Democratic candidates, rather than the Democratic Party (and by extension, the corrupt machines) itself.

I cringe thinking of where we'll be, come 2016.

[ronnykmarshall]

160. Yeah, well that's all peachy keen ...

BUT - Steven Speilberg is a poo-poo head director!

So THERE!

:sarcasm:

[BenDavid]

163. The one thing she has

and no other candidate has and that is "the Big Dawg". Yes, the smartest political mind of the 20th Century and he will use it again here in the 21st.
Just to throw a few things out.Homeland Security Director: Richard Clarke
Take FEMA out of Homeland and make it a stand alone: James Lee Witt
Treasury: Robert Rubin
Sect. of State: Madeline Albright or Bill Richardson
U.N. Richard Holbrooke
Defense: Wesley Clark (if not HRC's running mate)
Just a few folks that people would know and would accept....
AND NO ONE WOULD BE OVER-RATED AS RICE OR POWELL....These two have got to be the most over-rated people in America....
I do thank you...
Ben David

[PATRICK]

168. I am happy

that hyperbole undercuts your premise. I would hate to see the World Series locked up in the pre-season.
The premise and the arguments are strong, but not inevitable. Every frontrunner tries using that same club and all too often it bounces off the rubbed and back at the enthusiasts. But then, there is that moment of quavering 50/50, don't underestimate, you'll be sorry finale that is much worse than the hyperbole.

But yes, those are big strengths, legitimate ones with perhaps a shielded Achilles' heel- the MSM programmed unfavorable meme created by truly rabid RW hate spew. You are not alone in accepting and desiring that candidacy. The GOP would gain fresh vigor from it as well. Even if they bungle it by putting up some schmuck to run against her like they did in NY their local party numbers might mitigate the coattails. Note I said "might".

For people who missed prior primaries on DU, the staunch supporters who try to rout their rival's forces with premature cries of victory or "Submit!" ,might learn from the Kerry roller coaster swings. Some of his most in your face supporters gave up- the mistake of swinging too far from over confidence, then perhaps unwisely forgot how judgment weakness revealed is not something cured by getting past the roadblocks. Not too often do we see the emotional opinion swings in the same post.

DU does not make or break anyone at all, I greatly suspect, thank heaven too. One question I do ask though is, contest and victories aside, do we have reservations about getting behind our current offerings? That is a question for ourselves and the rest of the party. Bush and the frauds have radicalized an ordinarily easily answered question because what they revealed about fundamental flaws in our nation run far deeper than merely transitioning from the Coup's nominal term, even if the election were fairly held.

[fujiyama]

173. 54% being women is irrelevant

Can she win among married women in places like PA and OH? That's the real question.

What red states can she flip? The southwest, mountain states, and the south, are not voting for Hillary. She just won't relate to their culture and will likely come off as abrasive (speaking style), unprincipled, pandering, out of touch, and as someone that favors a nanny state...

[Township75]

174. One thing I notice is....

there are considerably less people posting that they will not vote for her even if she becomes the nominee than there were a few months back. People are slowly starting to accept the fact that she will be our nominee. A few months from now they will be fully supporting her and so excited for her and won't be able to wait until she kicks GWB out of the office.

It's kinda like the people who said they were leaving the US after 2002 and 2004, but never went anywhere. They just have to threaten to do all kinds of stuff to make themselves feel important. I say whatever....everyone on DU is going to vote for Hillary regardless of their whining now.

[ElizabethDC]

176. I agree with you, I've noticed it too

I've also noticed that a lot more DU Hillary supporters have been coming out of the woodwork in recent months - it's refreshing!

[Imagevision]

178. In the primary Obama has my vote - In November election I would support deputy dawg as long as

no repuke takes over again!!

[indypaul]

175. How well I remember

President Thomas E Dewey. Remember, also, Dr.
Wasserman said, "never be positive."

[Dinger]

181. You Know Herman, The More You Push, The More People will Push Back

You're not helping her with posts like this.

[election_2004]

182. We're wasting our breath...they'll just never get it

They are in their own little delusional world of "Hillary-Can-Do-No-Wrong-And-Anyone-Who-Opposes-Her-Is-An-Enemy-Of-Our-Society"...

[PresidentObama]

183. I'd say her, Obama, and Edwards all three do. n/t

[PresidentObama]

184. I'd say her, Obama, and Edwards all three do. n/t

[Mark E. Smith]

185. Love It!

Bring back the Clintons!