Lieberman a loose cannon -- does that mean Al Gore . . .

[MrModerate]

Was wrong to choose him in 2000?

Lieberman is a so-far minor disaster among major ones in today's political scene. He's proved to be a foolish, quisling prig. A recent post on SmirkingChimp (http://www.smirkingchimp.com/node/8087) paints a nightmare scenario of Gore assuming the office he won in November 2000, and then dying. How does "President Lieberman" sound to you now?

So the question, given the many ways the press has sought to belittle Gore (and still does), is: was Gore's selection of the sanctimonious little twit an example of his basic unfitness for the office of President? Was it such choices that convinced the electorate (well, 49% of 'em anyway) that they'd rather have the later-to-be-called "Decider" in the oval office instead? Do Americans still carry around in their hearts a basic lack of confidence in Gore that would prohibit him from seeking public office again?

Or not. You make the call.

[northernsoul]

1. I have confidence in him

but that confidence is diminished by a few items in his record, including (but not limited to) the selection of Lieberman as a running mate. I'm not convinced he's our best and only hope yet.

[monarch]

2. Joe was a bona fide liberal when Al picked him

He did not lose his mind until later.

[Virginia Dare]

5. I disliked him intensely back then (2000) as well...

there were already shades of what was to come.

[Donnachaidh]

12. I find that hard to believe, especially with the vehemence he's showing now

Towards virtually any Democratic bill, or idea.

You don't just 'suddenly' become a selfish, bitter, evil POS like Lieberman. What he is doing now has always been there, he just waited until a run for the House was taken away. After that, he just decided not to hide it.

He's a snake with a capital S.

[LeftishBrit]

24. Admittedly, I don't live there; but my memory is different...

I remember that he was already considered right-wing on foreign affairs, and that in 1988 he was elected by running to the right of his Republican opponent Weicker, with the backing of the right-wing journal "National Review". Of course, anyone's a bona fide liberal compared with Cheney.

But isn't it quite common for a candidate to choose a running-mate from the opposite wing of the party; e.g. when liberal Dukakis chose conservative Bentsen?

(Now back to seeing whether our new Deputy Leader will be to the left of Gordon Brown or not...)

[Virginia Dare]

3. Lieberman was a big reason I had to hold my nose when

I voted for Gore.

He's doing some good things, so I'm willing to give him another chance if he decides to run, but I don't idolize him as a savior as some do, and I'm not even sure I'd vote for him in the primaries.

Like I said, I'd give him a look though.

[bigendian]

4. Lieberman = Florida

and the Jewish vote there. Many of them were originally from the northeast too. The odds of Al dying in office were slim to none, at least naturally.

[wakeme2008]

7. BS.... Lieberman cost Gore the Muslim-American vote in Florida.

80% of the 60,000 went to Bush.

[bigendian]

9. Bush

locked up the endorsement of the Muslim American group when he was in Michigan remember?

[sabbat hunter]

14. i think that

80% may have gone to bush anyhow. if they voted against gore/lieberman simply because lieberman is jewish, then i will say to hell with htem. if that wasnt the reason, then chances are they would have not voted for gore regardless of whom he had as VP.

[wakeme2008]

16. Graham would have pulled some of those to Gore

I am sorry, Joey's religion cause Gore votes. I know I was in Florida.

[sabbat hunter]

21. well you know what

if they didnt vote for gore because Joe L is jewish then fuck them and their vote.

[MrModerate]

17. Boy, I bet they're happy with that choice now! n/t

[wakeme2008]

23. Not this "terrorist" supporter

He is in jail now.

[wakeme2008]

6. yes, Bob Graham of Florida is loved by the people of Florida

and 80% of the 60,000 Muslim-Americans in Florida voted for Bush in 2000.

Joey did not help with the Muslim-American vote. Bob Graham would have ....

[Totally Committed]

8. Every candidate has something troubling in their past.

I feel it is incumbent upon is -- the voters -- to decide which candidate deserves our support, based on what we can, and cannot live with in their records.

As I have said many times, a candidate's membership in the DLC disqualifies that candidate from getting my vote as long as they are still a member. That's my line in the sand. Al Gore was once a member of the DLC. I don't know if Lieberman still is, but even if he isn't, he is a prototype for the sort of candidate they support.

As a Presidential candidate in 2000, Gore was a tenative, too careful DLC-er. After that election, however, Gore became a tough-talking, out-spoken, left-of-center progressive. If Gore runs, as long as he stays away from his tippy-toe wishy-washy DLC persona, and gives us that gutsy side of himself, I could see myself voting for him as President. As of late, he's said a few things that have given me pause, but no more than any other candidate has.

TC

ETA: Other lines I won't cross -- Anti-Choice, Anti-immigration, Pro-War

[sabbat hunter]

13. pro legal immigration

i am pro legal immigration and believe we should make it easier for people who want to come here and become citizens, to do so.

that being said i am strongly anti illegal immgration and believe we need to tighten up our borders and not allow people currently here illegally to gain legal status.

additionally we need to fine businesses heavily who hire illegal immigrants 1 million dollars per illegal immigrant working for them.

[Totally Committed]

19. I totally agree! We are a nation of mostly immigrants.

If you are not 100% Native American, then your ancestors (or you!) had to emigrate here, and go through the immigration process, which makes your ancestors (or you!) immigrants. I say, grant legal citizenship to those who are here now illegally, or have a "fast track" for all of them -- not just the ones who can join the Army, and fine companies who import and employ illegal immigrants.

Tighten borders, guarantee a decent (living) minimum wage to all workers who are here -- even those going through the process, and welcome them all with open arms.

TC

[The Magistrate]

10. Selecting Lieberman Was Very Poor Judgement, Sir

His self-serving opportunist streak had already surfaced during the Impeachment struggle, when he joined in attacks on President Clinton. Vice-President Gore chose him to signify he was making a break from President Clinton, and despite all the chattering of the punditocracy at the time, that was very bad mis-calculation, and cost the ticket a great many votes. There was, and remains, a great reservoire of affection for "The Big Dog" among the people.

[mopinko]

11. you are exactly right, sir

it signifies gore's willingness to listen to the so called experts that have cost this party a well deserved majority for many years. all they are really experts in is obfuscating the corporate stranglehold on so many in our party.
i believe he has learned from his experiences, and would not listen to such stupidity today. which is a trait that ought to be a lot more common than it is.

[northernsoul]

15. Not to mention the pugent reek

of sanctimonious prudery was wafting around Mr. Lieberman with no small intensity by 2000.

[MrModerate]

18. I've always felt the one tactical choice Gore made in 2000 . . .

That made the election close enough for Bush to steal was his rejection of the Clinton legacy and Clinton the man. If he had embraced Clinton, not only would Clinton aficionados have been more enthusiastic (and turned out in greater numbers), but the Clinton peccadilloes would have been aired and largely disinfected, leaving his legacy less clouded than it is today.

Anyone who thought the Clinton impeachment was a "good idea" was going to vote against Gore anyway, regardless of how much distance he tried to put between himself and Bill.

[Totally Committed]

20. Even as no fan of Pres. Clinton (hindsight is 20/20) at present, I totally agree with you

on this. His repudiation of the Clintons at that time, was the second bad choice he made after Lieberman.

Very, very astute observation!

TC

[blueworld]

22. The voters did pick Gore in 2000, in spite of whiny joe n/t

[LeftishBrit]

25. Yes- how different the world might have been...

if Bush's crooked brother hadn't been Gov of Florida.

[Larkspur]

26. Gore picked Lieberman to help him distance himself from Clinton's sex scandal

Bill's sexcapades hurt Gore.

It's not Gore's fault that Lieberman turned into an arrogant prick. Lieberman has free will and he chose to squander a great opportunity.

[Uncle Joe]

27. My message from "It's a Wonderful Life"

Most everybody turned to fecal material in the Pottersville alternate reality.