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Should Joe Lieberman be allowed to continue to caucus with the Democrats?

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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 03:20 PM
Original message
Poll question: Should Joe Lieberman be allowed to continue to caucus with the Democrats?
Edited on Sat Jun-16-07 03:24 PM by Totally Committed
This was posted over at Josh Marshall's TPM:

Joe Lieberman has decided to join the GOP Smear Machine, which kicked into high gear this week when Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid offered some fairly mild criticism of outgoing chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Peter Pace during a conference call. From a radio show in Connecticut:

Q. There was a big flap yesterday about some comments made by Harry Reid concerning Gen. Petraeus, and the outgoing Peter Pace, saying they were incompetent, basically. Is that useful, and do you know that to be true or not... It's generally being reported in a lot of places.

LIEBERMAN: I don't know what Harry Reid is up to. I was very upset, even offended, by what he said about General Pace and General Petraeus. Look, you call General Pace incompetent? That's abs - this is a man who has devoted his entire life to the Marine corps, the service of our country, defense of our country.


Hmm, the president fired Gen. Pace, after he devoted his entire life to the Marine corps, the service of our country, defense of our country. Did Lieberman find that offensive? Put it another way -- which is more "upsetting" to Lieberman, a senator's mild, one-sentence criticism of a general's judgment, or the president firing that general in the midst of a war?
Lieberman wasn't quite through:

Q. Why is he doing this? Why is Reid doing this?

LIEBERMAN: I have no idea. Then to say that Petraeus is out of touch? I mean, Harry Reid in Washington says David Petraeus, who's in Baghdad, away from his family, heroically trying to rally our forces and succeed over in Iraq... that he's out of touch? I mean, it's just - the danger here - my colleagues who have been opposed to the war have said "we're opposed to the war, but we support our troops." But when you start to attack the top two generals, you know, that's... that's wrong.


That's been the standard right-wing line for a couple of days now -- if you disapprove of a general, then you're necessarily anti-military and deserve to have your patriotism questioned. Yesterday, the Republican National Committee issued a statement saying that Reid "attack our military." Conservatives online are following along, insisting without reason that Reid made "anti-military slurs."

Since when is it heresy to question the competence of military leaders? Pace's tenure has, at times, been rocky. His relationship with congressional leaders has, at times, been awkward. For that matter, Petraeus' judgment has come under question of late. There need not be a rule that military leaders must remain criticism-free at all times.

Indeed, if generals must be exempted from criticism, and those who spend their lives in military service should not be questioned, why is it that John McCain offered some harsh words, in public, for the last general to command U.S. troops in Iraq? Opposing Gen. George Casey's confirmation as the Army's chief of staff, McCain cited the general's "unrealistically rosy" assessments and "failed leadership" and told him: "I question seriously the judgment that was employed in your execution of your responsibilities in Iraq. And we have paid a very, very heavy price in American blood and treasure because of what is now agreed to by literally everyone as a failed policy."

Was this outrageous, too? Did conservatives condemn McCain for levying a personal attack on a general in a time of war?

Or is it more likely the case that Republicans and Lieberman are desperate to manufacture scandals, whether the facts support them or not?

-- Steve Benen

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2007_06_10.php#014655


In view of the fact that Lieberman is now clearly no longer pretending to be a Democrat, should he be allowed to continue to caucus with the Democrats?
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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'll rephrase the question
Edited on Sat Jun-16-07 03:23 PM by tritsofme
Should Democrats be allowed to continue to chair committess and hold investigations into the Bush administration in the Senate?
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. From what I understand, whether he caucuses with the Dems or not,
the House and Senate will run under Democratic Rules for a certain period of time (and I'm talking years, not months...)

Does anyone know how long that period is?

Thanks ahead of time for your help!

TC
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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Were Lieberman to decide to caucus with the GOP
McConnel would likely file a new organizing resolution and Republicans would filibuster every Senate action until Reid allowed a vote on the organizing resolution that gave control of the Senate to the GOP.

Absent a new organizing resolution the structure of the Senate remains as it is until the 111th Congress convenes in January 2009.
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Hawkeye-X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Not gonna fucking happen.
Lieberman can go bite me.

He can go GOP, and Reid can ignore him.

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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Sure, he could ignore them.
But as I said, the Senate would grind to a hault.

Either way neither my scenario or the one presented by the OP will ever come to fruition.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. Lieberman might decide to do that, anyway
without any help from the Dems. IMHO, he's just waiting for the opportune moment to do so that will cause the most damage to the Dems--or perhaps just at the start of some investigative hearings the repukes want to block.
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. ...and we have a winner
Better to smell Liberman's shit for two more years than not investigate the huge steaming pile of shit that will disable the GOP for years to come.
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iamjoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
7. Marriage of Convenience
We should allow him to caucus with us, but let's make sure we're wearing flea powder 'cos you know the saying about lying down with dogs
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avrdream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Yeah, and certainly don't let him into any of the Democratic
Strategy sessions!

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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
8. throw him down the well. Reid will still be majority leader. on second
though, throw Reid down the well, too.
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LordJFT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. not a Lieberman fan but...
I don't care for Lieberman but it's in our best interests to allow him to keep caucusing with us.
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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
21. Welcome to DU.
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giventruth Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
10. Joe has threatened to join the Republicans before...
And I'm sure the GOP would love to have him.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
11. McCain told Hannity that he will support McCain or Giuliani if they are GOP nominee
Let's dump this warmonger!
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NaturalHigh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
12. Yes, unless you'd like for him to caucus with the GOP.
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot...would you really like for him to switch sides?
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. As Skinner said, call Lieberman's bluff, we still control the House!
Lieberman should not chair the Homeland Security Committee. This is like putting Al-Qaeda in charge of the Pentagon.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Thank you!
I remember when Skinner said that. I agreed with him then, and after reading the blog I posted from TPM, I am ready to almost INSIST on it!

TC
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earthlover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Yeah...like that is supposed to make us feel better?
We control the Senate and the House now. So is controlling the House alone a good thing? HUH?

Sorta like the millionaire who lost half his fortune saying "at least I still own $500,000".
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
16. he's no longer a Democrat
He doesn't reflect any of the ideals of the party, in fact, closely mimics the very worst of the GOP.

I say let him caucus to further the illusion of solidarity but don't allow him to be privy to any strategic information.

And next election drop-kick his ass out of office.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. What about his committee assignments?
In essence those committees are chaired by a Republican. Shouldn't Reid be having a "little talk" with Joe right about now, and at least threaten to remove his chairmanships and seniority?

TC
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-16-07 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. not thrilled with allowing him to chair ANY committee
particularly when he promised to investigate the Katrina debacle and then apparently lost interest

he is poison

Have a great weekend, TC. :toast:
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