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Hillary Clinton Doesn’t Deserve Support From Progressives

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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 01:06 PM
Original message
Hillary Clinton Doesn’t Deserve Support From Progressives
Edited on Wed Jun-20-07 01:07 PM by jefferson_dem
...An interesting (and entirely reasonable) perspective, one that may resonate with some here, and offend others.

Just food for thought...

Hillary Clinton Doesn’t Deserve Support From Progressives
by Paul Hogarth‚ Jun. 20‚ 2007

When I attended the California Democratic Convention last April, I was struck at the level of support that Hillary Clinton had among delegates in what was a very progressive crowd. With a wide-open field and a favorable climate for Democrats, 2008 should be the ideal opportunity for an emerging progressive to get the party nomination and make it to the White House. But in recent months, Clinton has pulled away from the pack and now has a double-digit lead over her nearest rival, Barack Obama. Most of this can be attributed to the “gender gap,” but it’s depressing that women would put the premium of the first woman president – any woman president – above other considerations. Because if you look at Hillary’s legacy (and her husband, since by electing her you’ll get two for the price of one), the Clintons are anything but progressive and represent an outdated politics unsuitable for America’s future.

It’s easy to be nostalgic about the Clinton years, but that’s only because who’s President now. Under Bill Clinton’s watch, the federal government ended its commitment to poor people with Welfare Repeal, betrayed gays and lesbians with the Defense of Marriage Act, devastated family farms with the Freedom to Farm Bill, let media conglomerates take over with the Telecommunications Bill, violated civil liberties with the Anti-Terrorism Bill (which nobody remembers because we now have the Patriot Act), and pandered to anti-Castro extremists with the Helms-Burton Bill. And that was all just in 1996.

Bill and Hillary Clinton came into office with high optimism after twelve years of the Reagan-Bush era, and some good ideas like universal health care. But they quickly buckled under pressure when they couldn’t withstand the right-wing noise machine – a machine that will eagerly rev up its engines once Hillary becomes president. While many excuse their actions as dealing with a Republican Congress, remember that they also caved during the first two years when Democrats were in charge.

If there’s any positive legacy to the Clinton era, it was the 1993 Deficit Reduction Act that raised taxes on the wealthy and put our fiscal house in order. But even there, Bill Clinton backed off. At a fundraiser in October 1995, the President spoke to a group of wealthy contributors and acknowledged that many were upset that he had raised their taxes. “It might surprise you to know,” said Clinton, “that I think I raised them too much too.” Why progressives would want to go back to an era of cynical waffling and right-wing turns at opportune moments is beyond me.

While Hillary is not her husband, it’s reasonable to believe that she will govern like him too and surround herself with the same advisers. Her chief consultant is Mark Penn, who worked on her husband’s re-election in 1996. After helping the President win by selling out progressives and triangulating with Congress, Penn proudly boasted in 1997 about how Bill Clinton had shed the Democratic Party of its old, dying coalition and had replaced it with suburban professionals. “The great thing,” he said, “is that they vote.”

<SNIP>

http://www.beyondchron.org/articles/Hillary_Clinton_Doesn_t_Deserve_Support_From_Progressives_4634.html
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yes2truth Donating Member (278 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Nothing in that article should OFFEND any Democratic voter

If anything, it should serve as a reminder to look at ALL of the Democrats running for President, before committing to support Hillary Clinton.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. I found the 2 July article about HRC in the Nation very interesting. It's better than this. nt
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. self delete
Edited on Wed Jun-20-07 01:17 PM by rinsd
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
3. How would Obama be different than what this author complains about?
Or is this just a run of the mill Hillary tear down?
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. What Obama did yesterday with the two speeches was what HillaryHaters call 'triangulation'...
But that counts only when she does it.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I know, I know. Its only a sin if a Clinton commits it.
I see a day not far from now when we come full circle and in reponse to something another candidate has done, we hear the immortal words of "Clinton did it too!"
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Bingo!
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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
21. Exactly nt
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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
20. Why hasn't any BO supporters answered this simple question?
Oh yeah. That little problem of providing any evidence to support the mythology. ;)
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. ADA lists her voting record as more progressive than Edwards' nt
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
5. Ah, just what ever wing nut wants to hear...
Edited on Wed Jun-20-07 01:19 PM by fasttense
"Hillary Clinton Doesn't Deserve Support From Progressives."

Seems to me the wing nuts hate her just for being Hilary and trashing her just buys into their ridiculous phobias. I'm not a Hillary fan but when people start trashing her it makes me wonder if it isn't because they are afraid she is the Democratic Party's best chance of winning the 2008 elections.

The only other possible Democratic candidate that gets that same gut level hate from the wing nuts is Gore. Maybe a Gore/Hillary ticket would be the best bet. It sure would make the wing nuts' heads spin.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
8. "Just food for thought... " Here -- eat this instead...
And this from another Obama supporter -- this kind of divisive shit is really unnecessary.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. I don't have a dog in this fight, I'm a Clarkie, but this crap is getting tiring.
They're all good candidates in their way.

Let's see what happens.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Ditto that, Mookie -- tiring for sure.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Sorry if you consider this to be a hit piece. Actually, the author presents a cogent and reasonable
argument as to why Hillary may not be the best choice for "progressives." That's a fair question to ask, isn't it? I'm wondering if those who slam it as being out of line have actually read it.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. It's fine as an editorial, and yes I read it.
But you can put it in a tall stack of pieces hammering away at Hillary. How many have there been today? A dozen?

My major objections are 1) it is indeed a hit piece; 2) for some damned reason the author tosses in Bill Clinton as extra kindling for his bonfire and challenges the reader to separate Hillary from Bill. It claims that neither Hillary nor Bill are "progressives," and that's where I parted ways with the author. Clinton's style of governing as President was certainly one of compromise and pre-empting his enemies' favorite projects; but his core was truly liberal/progressive. If you want a candidate that is further to the left of Bill Clinton, you're soaring into pretty thin air.

And, the author most certainly could have made the points of criticism against a fellow Democrat in a much more constructive manner.

Just my dime's worth of unsolicited opinion....
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. Your points are well taken. Also, the author fails to fairly consider the political climate
within which Bill was governing. He had to contend with a Repuke-led Congress for six of his eight years. Obviously, any high hopes of a progressive revolution had to be nixed (or at least re-evaluated) as a result.

I imagine the author of this article could have the same qualms about my (our) candidate's lack of progressive purity. Rather than "go there" i'll just chalk this up as the price Hillary must pay for front-runner status.
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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. That whole reply is ironic...
==Sorry if you consider this to be a hit piece. Actually, the author presents a cogent and reasonable
Posted by jefferson_dem


argument as to why Hillary may not be the best choice for "progressives." That's a fair question to ask, isn't it? I'm wondering if those who slam it as being out of line have actually read it.==

You are right. This is a fair question to ask. Except the same questions, when asked of BO, are vicious smears? :eyes:
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. It all depends on *how* "the question" are asked, i guess.
:eyes:
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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Or who the questions are directed at
;)
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Perhaps... One man's "thoughtful critique" is another's "disgraceful hit piece."
Ah...gotta love the political game...
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snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #11
46. Mookie.. you can't gey tired of DU in-fighting (or in-fussing) yet...

Heck, we still have almost of year of this to go!! ----->

Just remember though. Once we have a nominee, everyone will come together!

~~~
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
10. Sorry...but Obama and CLinton...
Have nearly identical voting records...and take positions that are nearly indistinguishable from each other...
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. And who is saying that Obama is so great for progressives either?
Edited on Wed Jun-20-07 01:57 PM by NCevilDUer
I swear, there hasn't been a real progressive Dem candidate since Humphrey. If we took the best, most progressive bits from Hillary, Edwards, Obama and rolled them into one what we'd get is someone who looks a lot like Kucinich.

I think it's a bit sad to see so many here settled into a war between Hillary and Obama a full year out from the convention - as if there were no other choices. What happened to settling back and gathering information before deciding - or is that just a progressive trait?
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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
23. SaveElmer, did you see the thread comparing their platforms?
No Obama supporters could point to any difference between the two on the issues. The only difference, which I pointed out, was on health care. HRC favors universal health care while Obama has a more DLC plan than the DLCer and will leave at LEAST 15 million Americans uninsured. "Hope" means nothing to those who are left out in the cold...
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #10
29. Amazingly similar. Progressive punch has them separated by only .5 of a point overall.
Hillary - http://www.voterpunch.org/members.jsp?search=selectName&member=NYI&chamber=Senate&zip=&x=47&y=19

Obama - http://www.voterpunch.org/members.jsp?search=selectName&member=ILIII&chamber=Senate&zip=&x=49&y=3

I'll go out on a limb here and say the differences between Hillary and Obama are more about personality and style than about their policy objectives. Yet those differences are NOT unimportant.
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DinahMoeHum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
15. With all their faults, any current Democratic POTUS candidate
right now would be a THOUSAND TIMES BETTER than any Republican.

When all is said and done I am not pulling the lever for a Repuke OR a third-party candidate.

:kick:
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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
18. When someone posts a similar article about Obama it is called a vicious smear
Notice the silence from those BO supporters on the "smear" issue in this thread? This is another example of the "new politics" being a fraud. Anything goes for BO and his supporters; everyone else must behave like Quakers.
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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
19. If HRC does not deserve progessive support by extension neither does BO
After all, they are running on the same Third Way Democrat. Once again a BO supporters are criticizing HRC for not being a progressive when their guy has the same Third Way views...
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StudentsMustUniteNow Donating Member (859 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
25. Neither does Obama n/t
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
30. this article is stupid
typical uber - leftist drivel.

anyone who uses an idiot like Kos to back up their opinions is also an idiot


I'm suprised to see you posting crap like this
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. That you find it stupid is ok but he only uses Kos to show how it's early in the campaign season
yet...and things can (and will) change.

This is not a defense of Kos, by the way...just a clarification.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. But Kos's recent article was weak.
He literally dusted off the Lieberman canard that was debunked months ago.

It was as if he was hoping it was 2004 all over ignoring factors(and not for just Hillary but all the Dem candidates at this point) such as the fundraising and the press the candidates are getting this early in the primary season.

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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
32. The Clintons hate the progressives. they want us to be repuke lite.
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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Repuke-lite? So why does Obama have the same platform as HRC?
Edited on Wed Jun-20-07 03:17 PM by draft_mario_cuomo
Is he repuke-lite too? He is more Third Way than even HRC on health care.

As far as the Clintons wanting us to be Repblican-lite due to their Third Way, your own candidate highly praised Clinton's Third Way in his book. The quote, I believe, is in WW's thread about Obama's support for Clinton's Third Way welfare "reform."

You called me a "smear monger" just a few minutes ago. Now minutes later you smear the Clintons as "hating progressives" without a shred of evidence...
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. It's like talking to a brick wall.
Ms Ill-prog is a one trick pony. Post the same shit over and over.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Oh my. You do realize who you were responding to, don't you?
Do a search with the poster and "DLC," "Third Way," "BO," "platform," and/or "smear" and watch the results come streaming in.

Ad fucking nauseum...
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Because IL adds SO much to the debate
:eyes:

They're both poisonous creatures.
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. HIP! HIP! HIP!
Is "groovy" still a word?
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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #39
48. Thanks
:eyes:

There is an ignore function. If you see "poisonous creatures" use it. That is what I do. ;)
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. and your point?
La Illi-Prog is the queen of posting and running. At least the person I was responding to will respond. Agree or not.

I'd rather deal with a person that will respond ..... unlike the "young and hip" La I-P.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Gotcha. Hit and runners do suck. We can agree on that.
:toast:
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. I'll take swing of that!
:toast:
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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #41
49. His point was to smear a fellow DU'er--what he claims to be against nt
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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #37
47. And this isn't a "smear"? How about your "smears" about HRC?
Edited on Wed Jun-20-07 09:48 PM by draft_mario_cuomo
:rofl:

Another Obama fan hypocrite...
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Ethelk2044 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. AT least she does not post the SHIT hillary supporters post.
Makes you want to put boots on before you login
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. And shower off the slime afterwards...
Ack...!
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. Yeah she's only stuck with the "young and hip" crap.
Oh and yeah and of course the claim that the Clinton's hate progressives, only stupid uneducated people support Hillary, Hillary supporters are inbreeds ..... really snappy shit like that. Ok, the inbreeds part isn't true ....... YET!
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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #42
50. It is only "slime", "crap" or a "smear" if it is directed at the Great Leader
If it is directed at HRC, it is great! Take a look at who accounts for the bulk of anti-HRC replies in anti-HRC threads...
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Wow! Didn't see THAT bullshit comment coming.
:eyes:

You must have the most beautiful brown eyes .........
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