Someone Else is pondering an 08 bid for President

[illinoisprogressive]

while everyone is arguing over Bloomberg and fighting between each other when this guy may not even get in, a little item appears in Political Wire that is alot more problematic.

Ralph Nader "says he is seriously considering running for president in 2008 because he foresees another Tweedledum-Tweedledee election that offers little real choice to voters," according to The Politico.

Said Nader: "You know the two parties are still converging -- they don't even debate the military budget anymore. I really think there needs to be more competition from outside the two parties."
http://politicalwire.com/

[BobRossi]

1. Who lifted the rock?

Find a new hobby Ralph.

[PurityOfEssence]

25. Har har har

Thanks.

Narcissism is an evil mistress.

[Skinner]

2. Oh for the love of God.

Ralph Nader needs a new hobby.

[melody]

3. I hope they pay him well

The whole Tweedledum-Tweedledee crap shouldn't play nearly as well, consider the abject destruction
Nader's handiwork has wrought on the country.

To think I used to admire this jerk.

[MrModerate]

4. 2008 is shaping up to be an interesting year . . .

However, the following should short-circuit St. Ralph's plans: "If there had been no Nader, there would be no Bush."

[LWolf]

12. Bullshit. Nader was not the reason.

The reason:

Election fraud

No matter how you spin it, a clean election would have inaugurated Al Gore, regardless of the disenfranchised people that voted for Ralph Nader.

The right candidate and a good campaign will beat Bush this time around, too. If the party doesn't want people voting for Nader, they simply need to nominate a candidate that can earn those votes.

Nader is irrelevant until the Democratic Party elevates him to significance.

[MrModerate]

16. While a clean election would have put Gore in the office he won . . .

The Nader votes siphoned off in Florida (and elsewhere) made it close enough to steal. This is simple counting on one's fingers.

Also true is the fact that Nader is irrelevant now and should have been irrelevant in 2000. Gore ran an inadequate campaign; Bush was clearly a dumbfuck and had Gore's campaign been more effective (not all of which was in his hands to influence, i.e., the media's decision to trash him at every turn), he would have wiped the floor with Georgie -- which was the outcome expected by the dispassionate observers I talked to at the time (specifically my international friends).

The Dems have plenty of adequate candidates this time, and the 'Licans are in disarray. Rove is hamstrung. I expect their vote-stealing mechanisms will not be functioning at top efficiency this time around.

[LWolf]

17. When people excuse election fraud, preferring

to focus blame on the votes the party failed to earn,
they are just as corrupt as those who "stole" the election.

Votes not earned will always be a factor. They just weren't the prime factor in 2000. Generally, if a loss happens because not enough votes were earned, some self-evaluation and reform is indicated to repair that problem.

I hope the election won't be stolen again. I hope that Democrats will nominate a candidate who can unify the left. I hope that candidate runs a good campaign.

If the Democratic party nominates a good enough candidate, Nader will remain irrelevant.

[MrModerate]

20. I agree with your sentiment. And I'm somewhat optimistic.

However, we delude ourselves if we think that election fraud is the sole reason Gore was never inaugurated.

[SteelPenguin]

5. If we lived in a different political system I might agree

However in our winner takes all system if the two liberal parties combine for 60% of the votes, neither garnering over 40%, then the minority conservative party would utterly dominate the country.

Plus anyone who thinks that there really would be no difference between say Clinton or Obama and Romney or Thompson is insane.

"Another" tweedledum-tweedledee election, Ralph? Really? Like that one in 2000? Yeah NOTHING would have been different if Gore had been president the last 8 years. He obviously would have done everything just like Bush. Invaded Iraq. Ignored Katrina. Dismissed Science. Paid out billions to big pharma. Destroyed our international credibility. Nomiated Roberts and Scalito to the Supreme Court.

Yeah. No real choice.

Whatever.

[pnwmom]

6. "Ralph Nader as Mad Bomber" -- essay as appropriate now as in 2004

http://soc.qc.cuny.edu/Staff/levine/Ralph-Nader-As-Suicide-Bomber.html

RALPH NADER AS MAD BOMBER
_______________________________________________


Harry G. Levine

Department of Sociology, Queens College, City University of New York
March 2004 / [e-mail]

In the year 2000, Ralph Nader strapped political dynamite onto himself and walked into one of the closest elections in American history hoping to blow it up. He wanted to punish the Clinton-Gore Democrats for having betrayed him and the causes he believes in. His primary campaign mission was defeating Al Gore, but Nader concealed this from his supporters, even as he went after votes in swing states like Florida. On the day after election day, when everyone else was grim, and many Democrats were furious at him, Ralph Nader was a happy man.

The following essay presents evidence for this large claim and describes how I first learned this in the fall of 2000. Since the election, political discussions about Nader's campaign have often focused on its electoral effect. Did Nader's 97,000 votes in Florida defeat Al Gore making George W. Bush president? Most observers seem to agree that they did, but others insist that many factors defeated Gore. However, independent of the effect of the Nader campaign on the election results, one can ask about what Nader wanted to have happen. Now that he has decided to run again, in what promises to be another very close election, it is worth examining what Ralph Nader intended the last time.

SNIP

Nader also said many things that I did not think were true. He returned again and again to how Al Gore and George W. Bush were like "Tweedledee and Tweedledum," Lewis Carroll's obnoxious twins. They look and act the same, so it doesn't matter which one you get. Despite all the indications that this was to be a very close election, Nader also said that he couldn't possibly take the election from Gore -- "only Gore can do that." In effect Nader told people to ignore concerns about the handful of swing states where Nader voters might shift the electoral votes to Bush. Because there had been little media coverage of Nader's message at this stage, (especially in New York newspapers) one had to get close to the campaign to hear these things.

That night I received an email from an old friend, Ira Glasser, who had dealt with Nader occasionally over the years. Ira distrusted Nader and offered his educated guess that Nader would not withdraw anywhere because he "wants to punish the Democrats."

SNIP

[Vinca]

7. If Ralph Nader was serious about changing politics, he would

begin at a less ego-stroking level: the House or Senate. Just my opinion.

[pnwmom]

11. But being the narcissist that he is, he wants all or nothing. n/t

[babylonsister]

8. Heard that this a.m. Can't he just go away? nt

[illinoisprogressive]

9. He needs to find something else to feed his ego.

[Freddie Stubbs]

10. Back despite popular demand

[Totally Committed]

13. Jeezuss, no!

Ralph, just go away!

He's made his point -- badly -- but he's made it. Time for him to sit this one out, and let the voters begin to sort it all out.

TC

[ozymandius]

14. Time to send him some dead flowers.

For his candidacy is DOA.

[sellitman]

15. The Ego will run huh?

:puke:

[sabbat hunter]

18. maybe we can convince

Pat Buchannan to run as an independent from the right? maybe him and nader can cancel each other out with the votes that they siphon off the left and right.

[Vickers]

19. I thought he was dead. I mean, all the stuff going on in the world and

he picks THIS time to pop up out of nowhere?

Oh yeah, this is about him. MY BAD.

:eyes:

[ChiciB1]

21. NO, NO... NADER!!!! How Old You NOW??? It's Time For To Give It

UP when it comes to running for President! I'm sure you have PLENTY to do and would serve YOUR COUNTRY much better by NOT gumming up yet ANOTHER election! And for those of you who DON'T THINK he helped to take votes away from AL GORE, well I guess you will NEVER get it!

He got 97,000 votes here in Florida, and even though I have NEVER thought Gore LOST Florida... 300 plus votes from some of the Nader supporters would MOST certainly have gone to Gore! Just a mere 1,000 votes would have made ALL THE DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD!! And I do MEAN WORLD!!

Look what you've done to our country, and go back to fighting for UNIONS of something, but DON'T RUN!!

I once felt you had the good of the country as your main issue, but if you try to run again.... I dare say I will have lost any and ALL respect for you!!

It's time to HANG IT UP!! Sorry, Ralph... just listen and drop any thoughts of running all over again!!!

[Kingstree]

22. He said he would jump in to pull vote from Hillary

[TwilightGardener]

23. For once, I can say this and not mean it as a joke:

Mr. Nader, why do you hate America?

[Forkboy]

24. Yes..let's panic over his 1%

The Dems face some threats,but Nader wont be one of them.

[More Than A Feeling]

26. This election is going to be messed up. 1912 all over again.

Except with no incumbent, to make crazier. Republican, Democrat, Bloomberg, Nader, Green, Libertarian...say good-bye to the possibility of winning with a majority. Did being a plurality president hurt Bill Clinton (I wasn't engaged enough in politics at the time to remember)?

Maybe a dash of 1800 too, if it ends up going to the house, but fortunately Democrats control just enough state delegations (26), to win.

[Hart2008]

27. You assume they would all vote along party lines.

If the election were to be decided by the House, representatives from single district states such as Rhode Island would have equal voting power as the entire state delegation of California or New York.

Some reps might feel compelled to vote as their constituents did in the general election.

Others could be bought off with promises of cabinet positions, etc.

[Robeson]

28. Actually, Ralph, there is a candidate who wants to cut the military budget...

...his name is Dennis Kucinich...

We must cut bloated and unneeded weaponry from a military budget that now almost equals the military spending of all other countries combined. The resulting peace dividend can then be invested in education, health care, environmental clean-up, urban infrastructure, Social Security, veterans' benefits, and other pressing domestic needs.

http://kucinich.us/issues/militarybudget.php

[Bake]

29. Let him run AS A DEMOCRAT.

See how far he gets. He'd be "giving the voters a choice." He'd get the ego stroke of being in the debates, being on the tube, etc.

And let the Democratic voters reject him soundly. Just like the rest of the country did in 2000.

Bake

[Totally Committed]

30. I've been saying that, too....

It's better than having him run 3rd Party.

Do you think he'd ever do it?

TC

[Bake]

31. Hell no he'd never do that.

He LOVES being the spoiler. It's not about "giving people a real choice," it's all about NADER.

Bake

[grasswire]

32. how do we KNOW he got 93,000 votes in FL?

Karl could have padded his count, easily.

[sandrakae]

33. Fuck Nader.