Obama memo boosts Indian-American fundraiser, support for H. Clinton

[draft_mario_cuomo]

==Indian-Americans Dump Obama, Rally Behind Hillary []

6/21/2007 4:59:16 AM Indian-Americans have dumped US Presidential hopeful Barack Obama for his caustic remark ridiculing rival Hillary Clinton's links with Indian-Americans and has rallied behind the former first lady, boosting her fund raising campaign.

Indian-Americans from across the US and business leaders from India will be converging here to attend a major fund-raising dinner Sunday which aims to collect around $500,000 to $1 million for Senator Clinton.

Over a thousand guests, including India's Civil Aviation Minister Praful Patel and leading NRI businessman S P Hinduja, will pay between $1,000 and $9,200 per plate at the sit-in dinner being organized by the 'Indian Americans for Hillary 2008'.

The Obama controversy has given a significant boost to the attendance at the dinner with most of the seats already being sold out, organizers of the fund-raiser said.

Leading hotelier Sant Chatwal said the target set by the community to contribute at least five million dollars to Clinton's campaign would be met. "Already, around $3 million have been raised and it should be possible to reach the target by the end of this year," Chatwal said.==

http://www.rttnews.com/FOREX/politicalnews.asp?date=06/21/2007&item=10

[BeyondGeography]

1. What, no D-Punjab bounce for Edwards?

[draft_mario_cuomo]

3. Obama (D-Race-baiting) attacked HRC and her relationship with Indian-Americans

Logically, they rallied to her defense. Obama may actually have done HRC two favors. He 1) damaged his brand ("new politics" :rofl: ) 2) probably ended the debate among South Asians on whether to support HRC or Obama.

[Ethelk2044]

69. It is not race baiting when Hillary was the one that said it.

[Ethelk2044]

70. It is not race baiting when Hillary was the one that said it.

[jefferson_dem]

2. zzzzzz... How long are you planning on milking this (non) story?

Isn't it time to find a new smear, eh?

[draft_mario_cuomo]

4. $5 million in campaign contributions are a non-story?

Oh yeah. I forgot. THEY should not participate in the political process. Only contributions from good, "real" Americans like Steven Spielberg and Wall Street fatcats matter.

I will be :rofl: if HRC narrowly beats BO in fund-raising this quarter or later in the year. This may prove to cost him millions of dollars. Good. He deserves it. Maybe he will refrain from such behavior in the future...

P.S. Has anyone been fired for the smear by the campaign you support (you claim you are against "smears")? It was "unauthorized" right? It went against what BO believes and stands for, right? So why hasn't anyone been fired over it? ;)

[jefferson_dem]

5. Ok. Shall we just conider such contributions as add ons to others that Hillary has received

from pro-outsourcing loyalists and beneficiaries?

**

Many Silicon Valley Indians support Mrs Clinton, who has repeatedly defended the right of US companies to offshore business to India arguing that "you cannot legislate against reality". Mrs Clinton, who is also co-chair of the "Friends of India" caucus on Capitol Hill, will be the keynote speaker in Silicon Valley next month at the annual conference of the alumni of the Indian Institutes of Technology – the elite engineering schools that have produced many of India's – and America's – software leaders.

"There is a lot of support for Hillary because she has stuck by Indians on the two issues that most motivate us – defending offshoring and supporting the US-India nuclear deal," said a leading Indian business executive in San Francisco.

Among the ties listed in the leaked memo, the links between the Clintons and Vinod Gupta, chief executive of the technology company InfoUSA, are prominent. Bill Clinton, who earned $10m last year in speaking fees, has received $2.1m in consulting fees from InfoUSA and both Clintons have used Mr Gupta's private jets to attend political events.

The value of the flights is estimated at $900,000 over many years. Mrs Clinton has complied with regulations that require senators to reimburse the owner of corporate jets the equivalent cost of a first-class fare. The memo also says Mrs Clinton has received $60,000 in campaign contributions from employees of Cisco, the prominent US router-maker that has thousands of employees in India.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19314468/

[draft_mario_cuomo]

7. You are saying Indian-Americans are "pro-outsourcing [loyal to India] loyalists and beneficiaries?"

I won't even dignify such a racist attack with a comment. :eyes:

[jefferson_dem]

9. I simply asked the question. It's the MSNBC article that said much of her support

(that she already has) from the Indian community is based on the "outsourcing" positions she's taken.

My comment was no more "racist" than your persistent anti-Obama posts are... :eyes:

[draft_mario_cuomo]

11. Implying an ethnic group is loyal to a foreign nation is racist

That is far different than my critical posts of Obama or your critical posts of Hillary Clinton.

Well, if General Electric says Indian-Americans support her because of outsourcing it must be true! It surely couldn't be because of her long record of support for Indian-Americans while being a senator from a state with probably the largest concentration of Indian-Americans...

Obama, prior to this, had a solid level of support among Indian-Americans. Was that because of his identical position on outsourcing too? Or was that because of other reasons?

[jefferson_dem]

15. Now you're just making shit up. Where did i say anyone was loyal to another nation?

...you are projecting a bit methinks.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

17. Let's use some common sense

If an ethnic group that is relatively new to the nation wants to send American jobs to the "old country" it is implicitly loyal to that foreign nation. That is the racist and vicious insinuation many Obama supporters have been making since the memo.

Yeah, I want to send jobs from the factory in my town to a town in India because I am not a "real American." :eyes:

[jefferson_dem]

20. Common sense is - - - that you're way the fuck off base.

And i won't sit here and let those who criticize Hillary's position on outsourcing be called racist by you. At least, not without challenging such nasty, scurrilous charges.

***

Why do you not like Obama? Do you also not like others because they are black? Prove otherwise...

[draft_mario_cuomo]

21. Questioning the HRC/Obama view on outsourcing is fine

Implying that an ethnic group is loyal to a foreign nation isn't (which many Obama supporters have done. I haven't seen droves of HRC, Edwards, Richardson, etc. supporters do the same) Nice spin, though. ;)

==Why do you not like Obama?==

Why should I like someone who resorts to race-baiting against me? I consider him a fraud as well.

Why do you dislike the first woman with a chance to become president?

[NYCGirl]

25. He hates Obama because he's beating Edwards. NT

[Ethelk2044]

71. How is Edwards doing with campaign contributions?

[wyldwolf]

6. Aha! Just as I suspected

I wonder how this will effect "South Asians for Obama" chapters across the country?

to which the reply was...

It will not affect them.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

8. The diehards don't understand the damage it did

They are too blinded by their love for their candidate too see the obvious: when you attack a candidate for his or her association with an ethnic group you are automatically also attacking that ethnic group. What kind of response do you expect? Naturally an ethnic group you implicitly attacked is going to turn away from you in droves.

How would Obama feel if someone attacked a candidate for their association with African-Americans? He would be outraged--and rightly so.

[sandnsea]

10. Not surprising

I don't think Obama is going for the pro-outsourcing vote anyway.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

12. Yeah, brown people are disloyal and support sending US jobs overseas!

I think only whites and blacks--"real Americans"--should be allowed to participate in the political process. :eyes:

Never-mind the fact that Obama has the same position on outsourcing that HRC has. But, yeah, HRC is "pro-outsourcing" while BO is not. :rofl:

[sandnsea]

14. Because that's exactly what I said

More smears. That's all you know how to do. Pathetic.

No, Obama does not have the same position on outsourcing as Hillary. Hillary is a fucking liar who will sell out anybody to the highest bidder. THAT is her position on outsourcing - and everything else.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

18. You said Indian-American support="pro-outsourcing" support

The OP was about Indian-AMERICAN support for HRC. Your response?

sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author

Fri Jun-22-07 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
10. Not surprising

I don't think Obama is going for the pro-outsourcing vote anyway.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man. - Thomas Paine

Let's use some logic. If Indian-Americans are pro-outsourcing that means they want to send American jobs overseas. They want to send them back to the "old country" (a nation they may have never even set foot in, but why let that get in the way of racist mythology?). That means they are loyal to that country, not the USA. Why? They want to strengthen it even at the expense of weakening the US.

=No, Obama does not have the same position on outsourcing as Hillary. ==

Really? What differences are there between the two on the issue?

[sandnsea]

22. For Hillary it does

That would be identifying her racism - if it is, in fact, racism. She's the one who originally equated Indian-American support to being the Senator of Punjab - correct?

[draft_mario_cuomo]

26. What about for you?

HRC made a joke about her support among an ethnic group. She did not say anything about outsourcing--that is something Obama supporters invented because many of them apparently think Indian-American=loyalty to India and support for sending jobs from where they live to a foreign nation...

==The Punjab reference came from a joke Clinton made herself at a fundraiser hosted by an Indian doctor when she said "I can certainly run for the Senate seat in Punjab and win easily, after being introduced by Singh as the Senator not only from New York but also Punjab."==

Yeah, I am sure the doctor supports her because he hates America, is loyal to a foreign nation, and wants to support a candidate who will send jobs from his Maryland community to a distant nation. :sarcasm:

[sandnsea]

31. rotfl

Suuuurre. Outsourcing isn't an issue with Indian-Americans at all.

Hillary Clinton meets with Bharti Enterprises CEO Sunil Mittal as Kiran Pasricha, Director of the Confederation of Indian Industry looks on.
http://www.sajaforum.org/2007/06/politics_hillar.html

Bharti Enterprises and AXA Asia Pacific Holdings Limited (AXA) today signed an agreement to establish a joint venture named Bharti AXA Life Insurance Company Limited to carry on life insurance business in India.
http://www.bharti.com/124.0.html?&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=180&tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=122&cHash=a82a8c597d

[draft_mario_cuomo]

36. So you are saying Indian-Americans want to send jobs to a foreign nation?

Gee, I wonder why? Why would they want to do such a thing?

From your own link:

==The article points to the longstanding support among Indians for the Clintons. And judging from her early organizational efforts - many of us received a list of her Asian and South Asian campaign officers a month ago - Hillary is well positioned to harvest the desi vote.==

==That said, one person who attended a private Obama fundraiser for Indians told us he was completely underwhelmed, saying the candidate didn't even pay lip service to the virtues or aspirations of the community.==

Do you think Arab-Americans are loyal to Arab states? Jewish-Americans to Israel? Greek-Americans to Greece? Armenian-Americans to Armenia?

[sandnsea]

53. So now you're flip-flopping

It isn't racist to point out that business groups of foreign immigrants often have ties to their home country and that's where their political interests lie? Is that what you're saying NOW??

[draft_mario_cuomo]

56. Where was the flip-flop?

==It isn't racist to point out that business groups of foreign immigrants often have ties to their home country and that's where their political interests lie? Is that what you're saying NOW??==

No. It is racist to promote the dual loyalty, or even worse, disloyalty canard. These are things progressives have fought against Know-Nothing types for over 100 years!

[sandnsea]

60. You just did it in your last post

I guess you're the only one who can point dual loyalty. :crazy:

[jefferson_dem]

13. Watch out. The "politically (in)correct" keystone cops will call you racist for suggesting such.

:eyes:

[sandnsea]

16. Not going to work

I'm the least racist person on this board. Not to mention, I happen to support trade as a means for people in foreign countries to lift their standard of living - not to lift the CEO and investor class which is what Hillary is all about.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

19. Yeah, it isn't racist to imply an American ethnic group is loyal to a foreign nation nt

[jefferson_dem]

23. I think perhaps one could make that "loyalty" charge and it not be racist.

Whatever the case, i haven't seen anyone make the *exact* charge to begin with. Have you?

[draft_mario_cuomo]

27. Is this FR or DU?

Yeah, it is perfectly legitimate to claim one ethnic group is loyal to a foreign nation. :sarcasm:

==i haven't seen anyone make the *exact* charge to begin with==

Many Obama supporters have implied that Indian-American support=support for outsourcing. Support for outsourcing=support for sending American jobs to a foreign nation. Hmmm...why the eff would some regular individual (as opposed to big corporations), a doctor in Maryland for instance, want to do that unless they were loyal to that country? :crazy:

The bottom line is those who were targeted (it is nice to see outsiders tell Indian-Americans what they think) by the race-baiting attack understood what it meant and Obama is paying a price for it.

[jefferson_dem]

29. Is the NYT and MSNBC also *racist* because they explain the reason for

Hillary's support in that community? Perhaps you see any arguments against outsourcing as racism?

Uh oh -- http://video.aol.com/video-search/id/1330193760

Whatever the case, i'm done with you and this discussion. This is like the third or fourth post in a row where you've put words in my mouth in order to imply some racist intent. I asked for specifics instances of when Obama's supporters have used *racist* "loyalty" arguments and you come back again with the same old tired "many Obama supporter have..." nonsense.

Bye.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

33. Yes they are. They are wrong too

==Perhaps you see any arguments against outsourcing as racism?==

I explained that earlier. One can question outsourcing--like I do--without implying an entire ethnic group is disloyal. Apparently some can't bring themselves to make that simple distinction...

==I asked for specifics instances of when Obama's supporters have used *racist* "loyalty" arguments==

Two Obama supporters did so in this thread alone! :rofl:

[sandnsea]

34. I already posted the links

The people Hlllary is hooked up with ARE interested in outsourcing and business in India. YOU are the only one who said that is the ENTIRE Indian community. YOU and HILLART equate the entirety of Indian American support to Punjab.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

37. A brown Maryland doctor wants to send jobs from MD to a foreign nation?

Yeah. :sarcasm:

What you did is cherry-pick a handful of examples. The same could be done with any ethnic group to find nefarious characters who can be used to viciously paint the entire group as bad (are you and other Obama supporters going to revive the repuke smear about HRC happening to get a contribution from one anti-Semitic Arab donor? Does that mean all Arab-Americans are anti-Semites?). The reality is HRC has grassroots Indian-American support. She is supported by Indian-Americans of all types, not just businessmen. Moreover, like other ethnics, the vast majority of Indians are Americans first. It is sad that even in 2007 there are many people even in the Democratic Party who can't bring themselves to see that.

Also, Indian-Americans, I believe, supported Kerry in 2004. Why?

[sandnsea]

55. I posted a picture of Hillary and her interest group

That's what I did. That's who she supports. The article I posted said the younger generation is going towards Obama, they have different interests.

You just can't handle what's right in front of your face. The Clintons have always been about the monied interests, regardless of race, gender, ethnicity, whatever. That benefits Edwards, by the way, so I don't know what you're problem is with stating the truth about Hillary.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

57. SOME of the younger generation was for Obama--BEFORE his team's racist attack

Read the OP...

==The Clintons have always been about the monied interests, regardless of race, gender, ethnicity, whatever. That benefits Edwards, by the way, so I don't know what you're problem is with stating the truth about Hillary.==

Money and business interests is one thing; ethnic bashing and scapegoating is quite another. It is sad some can't see the distinction.

Who cares if it benefits Edwards? :eyes: What is this Obama supporter obsession with Edwards? As if every thought someone who supports Edwards has is made with the implications for him in mind.

[sandnsea]

61. Doesn't change Hillary's interests

She's still interested in India for the money and nothing but the money. If an Indian American doesn't have money, then that person isn't of concern to Hillary. The only one making racial inferences is YOU.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

64. The same applies to Obama, who raised more Wall Street money than HRC and any repuke

==The only one making racial inferences is YOU.==

If that were the case the OP would never exist. ;)

[sandnsea]

66. Hillary, Senator of Punjab

From the horse's mouth. She has made clear what her priorities are. Outsourcing.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

67. That is out of context. Obama has an identical position on outsourcing nt

[sandnsea]

68. He supports new trade policies

He supports having labor and human rights IN the trade policies. He supports it being a WTO violation if labor rights are violated. He's been decent enough to refuse to shop at Walmart even. He has given much stronger support to labor than Hillary has. And he isn't a proven liar.

[sandnsea]

24. Which is what Hillary did

Which is what I've said all along in this debate. SHE is the one who equated Indian American support to popularity in Punjab.

And it is about outsourcing, and you well know it.

[TeamJordan23]

28. Nothing in the memos were racist. DMC, was Hillary racist when she made her Gandhi gas station joke?

[draft_mario_cuomo]

30. Indian-Americans are speaking for themselves on this: it was racist, they back HRC

Who are Obama supporters to tell Indian-Americans what was or was not racist? They were the targets. They are not stupid. They assessed things and concluded they should back HRC, not Obama in light of his attack.

[TeamJordan23]

40. A lof of them back the Clintons b/c of their Pro-India policies, like outsourcing during the 90s.

Also, they did nothing to discourage Indian weapon development, unlike the sanctions they placed on Pakistan during the Clinton Admin.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

42. So why not Obama? He has the same position on outsourcing as HRC

What is the difference? The difference is HRC's record as a senator from New York.

What evidence is there that they support her chiefly because of a perverse desire to send jobs overseas, which makes them and their community poorer? Tell me, why does that Indian doctor in Maryland, who hosted the fund-raiser in question, want to send jobs from his town to a faraway nation?

Many (not all, but notice the conspicuous lack of criticism from Obama supporters of the memo?) Obama supporters are quick to make the insinuation but never answer the "why" part...

[TeamJordan23]

44. b/c majority of Indian-Americans have a lot of families and friends still in India. Also...

It's different to know how HRC will govern with her outsourcing policy (b/c of her husband's admin) than Obama (who has never been in executive branch)?

[draft_mario_cuomo]

47. So they want to make themselves poorer?

And for the mini-scule chance that one outsourcing job may land to a family member (who would already be receiving remittances if he or she is close to the Indian-American, which would be enough of an income supplement to live comfortably in a nation in which most people make less than $2 a day) in a nation of over a billion people? That doesn't make sense.

So you are saying they put the economic interests of India before the economic interests of the United States?

As far as HRC and Obama, they have the same position and outlook on the issue. Hence, they will govern the same on the issue.

[TeamJordan23]

49. Most Indian-Americans support outsourcing, and most are professionals whose jobs are not affected

[draft_mario_cuomo]

51. Where is the evidence for this vicious canard?

I am South Asian. I am for fair trade. That is one reason I don't support HRC/Obama. ;)

[draft_mario_cuomo]

58. Any evidence? Anyone? nt

[TeamJordan23]

62. Well let me rephrase: I don't see these special interest groups ever criticizing the Clinon's

pro-outsourcing policies.

[TeamJordan23]

46. From your standard, not that of special interest groups, do you believe Hillary's joke was racist?

[SaveElmer]

32. At least she took personal responsibility...didn't try to blame it on her staff...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3332865

[TeamJordan23]

38. B/C it came from her mouth. Do you really think Obama wrote that memo?

[draft_mario_cuomo]

41. No. It is always his staff's fault!

This is the third time he has been his staff in a short period of time. Even if he is being honest this suggests he is not ready to be prez. If he can't control a small campaign staff, how can he run a $3 trillion government?

So is he incompetent or lying about his role (did you really expect him to say he had a role in it? Blaming it on a staffer is a classic "old politics" trick)? ;)

[TeamJordan23]

43. Oh come on, this is a non-issue among majority of Americans. Were there were lies in the memo?

[draft_mario_cuomo]

45. The OP is about the targeted group. The price may be $5 million

That matters.

==Were there were lies in the memo?==

That is beside the point. Was Willie Horton a lie? No. Was it race-baiting? Yes. Was Reagan lying when he said he believed in "states' right" in Philadelphia, MS? No. Was he making a racist appeal? Yes. And so on. One can say something factual and still make a racist appeal or comment.

[TeamJordan23]

48. Was Hillary's joke racist under your standard?

[draft_mario_cuomo]

59. Yes. See post #39 nt

[jefferson_dem]

35. How could we forget that sick "Gandhi" joke. Wonder if we're seeing a pattern here with Hillary...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1Mq8kOXV_E

[draft_mario_cuomo]

39. HRC is the lesser of two evils in this case

One made a lame racist ethnic joke to generate a few laughs; the other used race-baiting that attacked an entire community for political gain.

[TeamJordan23]

50. If Indian-Americans care about outsourcing, why do they not speak up against Outsourcing policies?

[draft_mario_cuomo]

52. That is straight from Faux News: "If Muslims oppose terror, why don't they denounce it 24/7"

Come on. You are better than that. It is sad that hero worship blinds some to fundamental progressive principles!

==If Indian-Americans care about outsourcing, why do they not speak up against Outsourcing policies?==

Why aren't German-Americans "speaking up" against it 24/7 in 200,000 person strong rallies on the National Mall? Italians? Kenyan-Americans (like one Barack Obama ;) )? Brazilians? Cambodians? Arabs? Etc.

Right-wingers (I am not calling you a RW btw, you are just using a similar tactic) love to set an impossible straw man for minorities to reach and then use that impossible standard to claim their stereotype is correct.

[SaveElmer]

54. Howard Dean: Chairman of the Democratic Party on outsourcing and India...

The new chairman of the Democratic National Committee, Dr Howard Dean, believes the Indian-American community should find the Democratic Party more attractive as it is not only more favourable toward immigration, but also is a more diverse and welcoming than the Republican Party.

In an exclusive interview with rediff India Abroad Managing Editor Aziz Haniffa in Houston, Texas, recently, Dean, the former governor of Vermont, said he intends to bring Indian Americans to the upper and senior echelons of the party. He also said he would continue to reach out to the idealism and activism of the younger generation of the community at the grass-roots level that constituted the core of his presidential campaign.

Dean is travelling across the country trying to rally the faithful and undecided for the Congressional election in 2006 and the Presidential election in 2008.

On foreign policy, Dean said newly transformed US-India relations in recent years had a lot to do with policies adopted by New Delhi as much or more, than actions undertaken by Washington to push the relationship forward.

On outsourcing -- where the perception persists that Democrats are vehemently against it -- Dean said the party stood for free and fair trade and found India much more palatable than China.

...

On outsourcing, there was a perception that the Democrats were against outsourcing and it was perceived as India-bashing in a sense. How do you feel about outsourcing?

We are not against outsourcing. But we are in favour of fair trade. Now India is not the problem.

The problem frankly is China. In India, you can join an independent trade union. You cannot do that in China.

In India there are environmental laws. Now, we prefer the environmental laws be more similar to the United States.

Trade is not the problem. The problem is fair trade. We need to have the same kinds of rules apply to protecting workers and protecting the environment in every country and not just in some and others. India is closer to the model than China is.

India is not the problem. The problem frankly is China

http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/sep/09inter1.htm

Outsourcing is a complex issue, and something that is going to be a part of global marketplace...Obama's staff tried to reduce it to something black and white...and use it as a gotcha moment...which of course...failed miserably...

[martymar64]

63. They know Hillary will accelerate outsourcing

She only cares about the wealthy, everyone else can go work at McDonalds.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

65. So you are saying Indian-Americans want to accelerate outsourcing?

:eyes:

Tell me, why would they want to send jobs from their town to a foreign nation?

HRC has the same position on outsourcing that Barack Obama has. As far as caring for the wealthy is concerned, who is getting more Wall Street support? ;)

[martymar64]

72. Relatives

Maybe they have family members or friends running these companies in India and the ones in America are acting as point men for lobbying our officials. An ordinary Indian working in America is not what I'm talking about. These association members are likely from the elite families in India, their versions of the Bushes, DuPonts, and Hiltons. As far as Obama having the same position on outsourcing as Hillary, I'm not surprised. Both are in the pocket of Wall Street. That's why neither of them would be good for the american worker.