In 2004 I fought for Kerry from the beginning, and I didn't belong to DU at that time

[jillan]

I wonder if I did, if my mind would have been changed.

I imagine that alot of people here were Dean supporters.
I also imagine that there was alot of Kerry bashing, just as there is constant bashing of all of our candidates here.
I wonder if I would have read something about Kerry that he did in the past that would have made me look at someone else.
Doubtful tho, I have no regrets that I supported Kerry and fought for him from the start. I believe(d) that he would have been one of the best.

My question is, what is the purpose of all the candidate bashing that goes on here?
Is it to change other peoples minds into voting for your favorite candidate by making their candidate look like a total a-hole?
Why is so much energy being used to trash all of the candidates when we know that anyone of the Dems that are running for POTUS
would be a 100% improvement than what we have now?

What if you are all rooting for Dean, but Kerry is what the general public really wants?

The polls coming out now are meaningless. Anything could happen and the whole landscape could change. People aren't really paying attention yet.
Just look at 2004.


Can some of the energy that is being used here against the Dems be used against Guiliani, McCain, Thompson and the rest?
What if the posts about the Dem candidates were more based on facts, like where they campaigned today and what they said, rather than how they screwed up? Everyone of them screwed up, and will continue to do so. They are only human afterall. Everyone of them has their hands in special interests. (Not sure about Gravel tho) And no candidate is perfect - we may support 90% of what they stand for, and disagree with the rest. Bill Clinton was probably one of the best Presidents we have had, yet there were things about him that really pissed me off.

What if we discussed the candidates in a positive manner so that people could make an intellegent decision, and not a decision based on emotion?

okay - that was alot more than one question.:eyes:

[wyldwolf]

1. you have no idea...

There were people here swearing they'd never vote for Kerry.

[PresidentObama]

4. And just like they did for Kerry, they'll vote for Hillary too.

And just like with Kerry, Hillary will win!!

Only this time, she'll be in the White House and not denied the WH like Kerry and Gore were.

She's not my candidate, but if she gets the nomination...I welcome another Clinton in the White House with open arms!!

DU's opinion is absolutely meaningless, IMO. We represent a small, sometimes extremely radical, portion of the Democratic party.

[LordJFT]

22. I agree

we should start more threads bashing the repuke candidates

[BOSSHOG]

2. In 04 I was not effected by any criticism of any candidate

and I won't be this year. I ignore most of the candidate threads since my state's primary is irrelevant but I do hope we all get behind the (D) nominee whomever he or she may be.

[Parche]

5. 2004

Me too, I never listened to anyones criticism of me or what I thought
I was a major Kerry supporter, from a year before he announced, and everyone knew it.
They all wanted Dean, and let me know it.
I never give up, and Kerry didnt either, he fought from behind and won the primaries,and the
rest is history.
Never give up the ship, Admiral Halsey never gave up, even when the chips were down.


I am a Presidential history buff, and also WWII mostly Pacific, and knew that John Kerry
was the one to be President, I knew back then, and I know now who will be the one if Kerry
doesnt run, and it looks like he wont.........I am always right on these things.......:hi:

[jillan]

19. ooooh that picture!

Besides all of his credentials,
I learned to really like his physical attributes as well:P

[SharonRB]

3. What a concept, pirhana

Intelligent discussion, not candidate bashing!

I didn't find DU until after the 2004 election, so I wasn't around either at that time. I voted for Clark in the primary, but once it became obvious that Kerry was going to be the nominee and I learned more about him, I became a strong supporter and grew to really like him.

[peace13]

6. A couple of thoughts here

-Candidates should be discussed freely here. Before the primaries people should be able to air their concerns about the candidates. Many times a person here will interpret questioning as candidate bashing.
-If you have information about Dennis Kucinich being in the pockets of special interest groups I need to hear it. Otherwise I think that you have misspoke. Peace to you and hold on to your hat as this election gets closer. Kim

[Virginia Dare]

7. Every candidate is part of a special interest group...

if the candidate happens to be part of your own particular special interest group, then it doesn't bother you much, that's all.

[peace13]

8. OP refers to hands in pockets,

to me that is different, but I am OK that you don't think so.

[Virginia Dare]

10. I don't see the word pockets, but I get your drift...n/t

[Jillian]

9. I read somewhere that this weekend he was suppose to speak at the AFL-CIO

That is a special interest.
A great one, one I have donated to.

And if they donate to his campaign, and Dennis wins the Dem nomination, you can be sure that the repugs will bring it up.

They way elections are financed, these candidates have to get their $$$$$$$$$ from somewhere.
Unfortunately.

:toast: Here's a toast to FUTURE public sponsoring of elections.

[Virginia Dare]

11. Anti-war groups are special interests too..just sayin'...n/t

[LittleClarkie]

13. I would welcome a free discussion, and an airing of concerns

But when the obvious supporter of another candidate posts thread after thread using words like "hypocrite" and such with loaded language, that is indeed meant to bash the opposition.

I welcome the seeking of knowledge, but often enough that's not the goal of the thread starters.

[Joe Chi Minh]

12. Neocon trolls are fairly well represented here, though it's not usually too

difficult to recognise them.

[RaleighNCDUer]

14. You do understand that the only candidate being trashed is YOUR candidate.

The others, we're just informing people about.

Seriously, without people pointing out legitimate concerns about the candidates we will be blindsided when the other side comes up with those same concerns, in a more crucial setting. So the crap about haircuts is worthless, but saying "XXX voted yes on the IWR" and "YYY voted yes on the IWR and never recanted" are perfectly legitimate grounds for discussion. However, the partisans for XXX and YYY will see any such comments as 'trashing'.

We don't NEED to post negatives about the republican candidates, because we all KNOW that any Democrat is better than any Republican.

We aren't here as cheerleaders. We are here to discuss politics, and that gets messy.

[jillan]

17. I know - I'm just saying that I have seen threads attack certain candidates like the op was really

trying to take the candidate down. Ugly stuff.
Once I saw a thread about Biden that I could have sworn the Swiftboatliars were responding to.

Edwards has had his share, and now it's Obama's turn.

Discussion about the IWR is important, I don't consider that bashing.
In fact I wish there were more discussions about what the candidates positions were on
*getting us out of Iraq peacefully
*what they would do about Israel/Palestine
*Russia, lose nukes
*how they are going to bring our civil liberties back
etc - you know, stuff like that.

Maybe it's just too early?

[demommom]

21. I agree with Pirhana

I agree with you Pirhana. I am new here and when I first joined, I posted about my candidates' stand on a couple of issues and WOW! was I jumped on for using DU as an add for my candidate. It was not pretty and I almost did not come back. I still do more reading than posting for that reason.

I feel a person should be able to speak positively about their candidate without trashing the rest of the field. IMO, there is a difference between comparing stands and "TRASHING."

It would be great to be able to discuss issues without name calling,etc.:*

[Stop Cornyn]

15. Thanks for posting this.

[snowbear]

16. pirhana~~

"I also imagine that there was alot of Kerry bashing, just as there is constant bashing of all of our candidates here".

Nah.

Until Iowa, Kerry was never bashed on here for one simple reason....

... --- He was RARELY discussed on here.

DU had a huge Dean and Clark following. Probably a few more Deanies than Clarkies, but both were very well represented here!

Every candidate had at least some supporters. But nothing like D & C.

After Iowa.. you would not believe how many people registered over at the Kerry '04 website all at once!

The people @ Kerry's site said it went from --->

To ----->

I still have the 6 pages one of the Administrators sent when I agreed to be one of their many moderators there. Pages and pages of do's and don'ts. I thought it would be fun to keep it as a memory of that election. They had Moderators, Super Moderators, and Adminstrators there.

Anyway -- you are 100% right.

At this point in the primary, just like '03 and campaigns before -- we have absolutely no clue who will wind up winning our nomination.

Plenty of predictions and speculations.. but just look how well those came through in campaign's past.

[jillan]

18. I will say this

You have to really know your candidate around this place - just to defend them!
So maybe that is a plus.

[JNelson6563]

20. Many dogs pissing on hydrant, claiming it as theirs.

Kinda sad, isn't it? Imagine if all the hours of back and forth were spent on local races, voter ID work or Congressional races....*sigh*

Julie

[ludwigb]

23. I remember there were lots of Kerry supporters from the start

Gradually, Dean supporters became the strongest presence on the forums, and then Kucinich's support became about as strong as Kerry. I think when MoveON had their 2004 primary poll, the percents were pretty close to the loyalties of DUers at the time. Eventually, lots of DUers supported Edwards and Clark too, and the residual effects of their campaigns on the sympathies of DUers is easy to see.

There were many hate-posts against Kerry (and the other candidates). I don't think the hating on HRC exceeds 2004 levels, though I may be wrong. It's true that there is HRC brings out hostility among Democrats that may be greater than what we could muster for Gore or Kerry.

I think it's necessary for us to examine the skeletons in the closet, as well as the emotive arguments against certain candidates likely to sway ordinary voters...if we want to make a good decision.

[Stinky The Clown]

24. Candidate bashing is like dick waving .......

.... pointless and juvenile.