Obama-Colin Powell (R-war crimes) ties: Will they boost or hurt Obama?

[draft_mario_cuomo]

One of the main points of the article is the party's base wants a fighter but it seems Obama is a finesser (a glorified way of saying a triangulator). This may hurt him with the base but Powell helps him among Washington insiders and many centrists, who still hold the war criminal in high regard.

==Sen. Barack Obama’s decision to seek foreign policy advice from former Secretary of State Colin Powell has boosted the Democratic presidential hopeful in the eyes of Washington’s insider crowd, but the move suggests that Obama is positioning himself as a conciliator rather than a battler, which may unnerve the party’s “base.”==

==Although House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and other party leaders vowed they would never again give Bush a blank check on the Iraq War, key Democrats, including Sens. Carl Levin and Barack Obama, started running up the white flag even as the legislative battle was beginning, by saying Democrats would never let the troops go without funding.==

==His decision to seek the counsel of Colin Powell – a move leaked by the Obama campaign and confirmed by Powell on NBC’s “Meet the Press” – suggests that the Illinois senator is hoping Powell’s “gravitas” inside Washington might rub off. Powell also retains popularity with many centrist Americans despite his Iraq War role.

==Now, Obama, as one of the first African-American presidential contenders, must decide who he’d rather emulate, Rev. King or Gen. Powell. He also must settle on what kind of a candidate he intends to be, a fighter or a finesser.==

Read the rest at http://www.consortiumnews.com/2007/062307.html

[tularetom]

1. I hope Obama wakes up - we don't need another conciliator

I'm waiting for somebody to call this bunch of lying bastards a bunch of lying bastards. Whoever does so will get my support.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

5. I agree but that is exactly what his "unity" talk cleverly papers over

"Unity" is a nice, appealing (I am sure it has been focus grouped numerous times) way to promote a strategy of conciliation/triangulation.

I am surprised how, in all the talk about the war funding bill, people have forgotten how Obama blinked even before Bush's veto. He could have led the senate fight against financing the war, like Dodd did, but instead opted to stay silent and meekly vote no at the last minute because of pressure from the netroots and HRC. It was a perfect example of his preference for conciliation and triangulation rather than taking the fight to the Republicans, who he wants use all to happily hold hands with when we achieve "unity" (when we cave in enough to make the repukes happy!).

From April 1:

==SIOUX CITY, Iowa (AP) — If President Bush vetoes an Iraq war spending bill as promised, Congress quickly will provide the money without the withdrawal timeline the White House objects to because no lawmaker "wants to play chicken with our troops," Sen. Barack Obama said Sunday.

"My expectation is that we will continue to try to ratchet up the pressure on the president to change course," the Democratic presidential candidate said in an interview with The Associated Press. "I don't think that we will see a majority of the Senate vote to cut off funding at this stage."==

==Given that Bush is determined to veto a timetable for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq, Congress has little realistic choice but to approve money for the war, Obama said.

"I think that nobody wants to play chicken with our troops on the ground," said Obama. "I do think a majority of the Senate has now expressed the belief that we need to change course in Iraq.==

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-04-01-obama_N.htm

[Warpy]

2. I think Powell is probably offering constructive advice

on surviving as a person of color in what has traditionally been a white man's game. His advice is probably very good, practical advice because he's been there.

Hillary Clinton has no one to advise her on being a woman in a man's game. She is the first to be a major candidate.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

3. Why doesn't he look to Jesse Jackson for advice?

Jackson ran for president twice and finished 2nd in 1988, even leading at one point. You make valid points but the man to give him that advice, who is a progressive to boot, is Jesse Jackson. Jackson remains the most successful minority candidate for president ever (we'll see if BO can match his 2nd place or even win).

[sandrakae]

6. How did Jesse Jackson finish second? I do not remember him ever being the Democratic Nominee?

[draft_mario_cuomo]

9. 2nd for the nomination

1) Dukakis
2) Jackson (won 12 states)
3) Gore (won 7 states)
4) Gephardt (won 3 states)

He beat a bunch of others as well, including Paul Simon and Bruce Babbit.




==In 1988, the Democrats were so tired of being beaten by Reagan and co. that they were ready to nominate yet another uncharismatic liberal from the North, this time from Massachusetts. The 1988 Democratic Primary season was the most turbulent ever, as several candidates remained viable well into the season. The original frontrunner was actually Gary Hart until he was caught fooling around, at a time when this was actually considered a bad image for a potential president. My how times can change. Then Biden was caught stealing speeches. The first contests were hotly contested, as Gephardt narrowly beat Simon and Dukakis in Iowa, only to be beaten in turn as Dukakis won New Hampshire. Only environmentalist Babbitt was squeezed out of the running, although Simon was frustrated by his close-but-not-quite #1 finishes. Al Gore counted on a 'southern strategy' to carry him past Dukakis and Gephardt on Super Tuesday, but while he won several southern states so did Jesse Jackson. Dukakis maintained his lead by winning in New England and Florida, while Gephardt's campaign withered as quickly as Dole's did on the Republican side. Even so, the contest between Dukakis, Jackson and Gore was hardly concluded, and Simon's win in his home state simply pointed out the weakness of the others and left the party with five candidates all holding over 100 delegates. Jackson won in Michigan, the peak of his two campaigns. Gore's unconventional strategy ultimately failed when he was crushed in New York, and Jackson was left as the main challenger to Dukakis. Ultimately Dukakis managed to accumulate a majority of the delegates but by that time the Republicans had solidified behind Bush and were ready to destroy Dukakis with stupid issues such as flag burning, the ACLU, and Willie Horton. Dukakis didn't help his cause much by looking goofy in a tank and not being able to express human emotions in debates, and was defeated. ==

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/8088/Dem1988.html

[Name removed]

33. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TeamJordan23]

4. Here we go again. Wasn't this already discussed/debated all last weekend?

[illinoisprogressive]

8. Obama talked to the guy 2x. so have others. what is the damn deal with this? geez.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

10. What other DEMOCRATIC candidates have turned to the Republican war criminal for policy advice? nt

[TeamJordan23]

13. Maybe your candidate should have spoken up against this criminal war when it mattered? nt

[draft_mario_cuomo]

16. More diversionary tactics from BO supporters

Start another thread if you want to discuss why the only candidate who took any real risks to speak against this war is Kucinich, and he has been against it every day since 2002. He didn't suddenly run out of courage when the political risks became too high.

[illinoisprogressive]

7. why do you hate Sen. Obama so much????

[TeamJordan23]

11. I'm assuming jealousy. Maybe his candidate(s) have not lived up to their hype. So he's gotta bash

Obama everyday. Half the time, its with the same story repeated over and over.

Hey DMC, why don't you get in contact with Edwards' campaign and have Edwards ask Obama about his conversations with Powell in the next debate. Or maybe you can help Edwards fundraise instead of bashing his opponents all day long.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

14. Are you projecting the reasons for your anti-HRC posts?

It must suck for a poll worshiper to see HRC expanding her lead over BO to 16 points in the latest poll...

[TeamJordan23]

18. Okay, so now polls matter to you now all of a sudden....

Because they don't matter to me. I report them, but I take all of them with a grain of salt.

But if you take this poll seriously, than your candidate must be in REAL TROUBLE. Down by 13 to Obama and down by 29 to HRC. Ouch.

[ProgressiveAmPatriot]

53. 18 Obama threads in about a week, what are you talking about?

1. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3326371&mesg_id=3326371
2. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3326881&mesg_id=3326881
3. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3334010&mesg_id=3334010
4. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3334681&mesg_id=3334681
5. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3333511&mesg_id=3333511
6. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3333957
7. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3335449&mesg_id=3335449
8. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3330663
9. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3329398&mesg_id=3329398
10. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3323382&mesg_id=3323382
11. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3324574&mesg_id=3324574
12. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3324481&mesg_id=3324481
13. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3322615&mesg_id=3322615
14. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3319787&mesg_id=3319787
15. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3321186&mesg_id=3321186
16. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3319238&mesg_id=3319238
17. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3319028
18. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3332420&mesg_id=3332420

[marmar]

12. This again?

Dios mio!

[jefferson_dem]

15. Ugh. This is sad. I mean that in all seriousness. This has become like an obsession for you.

Obama slam after Obama slam after Obama slam after Obama slam.

It's just not healthy...

Take a break. Think happy thoughts. Seriously.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

17. In other words, if you question him you are a nutjob

This proves Purityofessence's point earlier today...

[jefferson_dem]

20. I didn't say "nutjob" nor would i ever accuse you of being one. Question whomever, whenever,however.

It just seems a bit "over the top" at this point.

Then again, maybe it's just me.

Cheers!

[AlCzervik]

19. how does this lift your candidate up? This feud between the 2 groups of supporters

is really not helpful to either camp imo.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

21. The premise is that no one would dare question, criticize BO unless it was to help a candidate

I think that is a very flawed premise. He is a public figure and people are going to raise questions and criticisms of him.

[AlCzervik]

27. thats not true, having a disagreement of someone's policy is one thing

the constant negative threads on candidates not of your choice do nothing. i was here through the 2004 primary and have seen many, many flame wars between different groups of supporters but this season by far is the absolute worst. When i do decide who i will vote on primary day i sure won't sharing it here.

[TeamJordan23]

22. Maybe DMC hopes that Edwards can overtake Obama with all these attacks. nt

[draft_mario_cuomo]

24. How many votes are at DU? nt

[jefferson_dem]

25. Maybe so. I wonder what Edwards himself would think of the OP's method and tactics.

n/t

[Name removed]

26. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TeamJordan23]

23. Enough of this! DMC, I'm looking forward to your next thread on the Punjab Memos. nt.

[jefferson_dem]

28. Or maybe he'll dust off the phony madrasas story, or his middle name, or his big ears, or...

:shrug:

[TeamJordan23]

30. Well, his new sources are right-wing websites, so it won't surprise me if that happens. nt.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

29. How about you posting a thread on voting for HRC or Bloomberg to bash HRC?

;)

[mckeown1128]

35. Have you become a Clintonista all of a sudden....

You seem to be obsessed with attacking Obama. What is going on with you??? Just post something positive about Edwards for once. When we Obamaniacs start posts we keep it to pro-Obama the vast majority of the time... not anti-edwards or anti-clinton. Geez easy up a little... you are not doing your own candidate any good you are helping Hillary and hurting Edwards...

[draft_mario_cuomo]

36. Obamaniacs are the most prolific posters of "negative" threads here nt

[Forkboy]

48. You're doing your best to even that out.

[mckeown1128]

49. you obviously aren't on the same website as I am. nt

[draft_mario_cuomo]

50. You don't see the daily stream of anti-HRC threads and occassional anti-JE threads? nt

[mckeown1128]

55. I have rarely seen anti-Edwards and while I often...

see anti-Hillary pieces they have been strongly out numbered by
anti-Obama pieces as of late

[draft_mario_cuomo]

31. This is what TJ said in a similar thread he posted about HRC

Another "do as I say, not as I do" representative of the "new kind of politics."

TeamJordan23 Donating Member (296 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Wed Jun-20-07 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. I don't really consider it a total smear article. It does show that she is a skillful politician.

Although I don't agree with what she does, she does minimize risks for her.

[TeamJordan23]

32. Don't get too off-topic now DMC, I thought this was about Powell-Obama?

And I do consider HRC a very skilled politican. She keeps things very calculated to minimize her risks. Some people like that, I am just not one of them.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

34. The OP shows Obama is also a skilled traditional politician who...

...calculates things to maximize advantages and minimize weaknesses...

[jefferson_dem]

39. Nowhere in your OP does it say anything like that.

It mentions *perceptions* others have of Obama's meetings with Colin, and what are the politics of his meetings. It questions whether Obama will be seen as more of a so-called "conciliator" than a fighter.

Then YOU take the huge leap to ascribe politically strategic motivations onto Obama. Why couldn't he seek out Colin's advice because he simply believes it's the right thing to do?

[draft_mario_cuomo]

40. I was applying TJ's own logic in a similar thread about HRC he posted...

...to this thread about BO that he is bitterly denouncing... :)

[jefferson_dem]

43. Fact is, you were not applying any logic or facts because you misrepresent what's in the article.

Try again?

[draft_mario_cuomo]

45. We all have our own interpretations. That is why this is called a discussion forum

Perhaps instead of reflexively attacking a fellow DU'er you should discuss why your view of the OP is correct...

[Superman Returns]

37. haha

this Cuomo guy is clearly a fake a account, used as a satire of the primary season at DU. No real person can be that obessive with trashing a candidate! How many times has he used this story already?! Moderators do something!

[jefferson_dem]

41. I'm starting to wonder...

:think:

[draft_mario_cuomo]

42. This is my 1st thread on Powell-Obama, but I could be wrong

==Moderators do something!==

An honest BO supporter calling for censorship of threads that show the Great Leader in a light that contradicts the Official Story. At least you are honest about it. "New politics" indeed...

[madrchsod]

38. jesus christ - at this rate we will become them...

the fucking purity bullshit is really getting hard to take. if anyone thinks that politics is a polite game guess what- politics is a fucking mean dirty game where just about anything goes to win. politics always has been and always will be. the true test for those who win is how they reward the faithful and how they welcome all others to join in the spoils

[draft_mario_cuomo]

44. No other Dem is getting policy advice from a war criminal

This isn't a necessity of politics but a poor choice by Obama, that the OP suggests, may have been made partly with political calculations in mind.

[jefferson_dem]

46. WHERE in the article does it say that political calculations played a role?

...much less provide any evidence to that effect.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

47. Do you know how to make inferences?

Powell 1) helped BO among Washington insiders 2) It helps him promote his "unity"/conciliator/triangulator image

[snowbear]

51. I don't think it will hurt Senator Obama one iota... and..

... I'm sure if you ran a background check on every candidate's campaign advisors, there'd be plenty of eyebrows raised all around.

General Powell -- despite how terribly he misled Americans for the sake of Bush's lie --- is still held in high regard by most people.

Not only that --- but he's not the only General that Obama is seeking council from.

Just ask General Wes Clark.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

52. You're right. It may actually help him nt

[saltpoint]

54. There is much greatness in Barack Obama, and it is a greatness not

subject to diminishment by the presence of others.

Giuliani looks weakened by his association with Bernie Kerik because Giuliani is weak to begin with.

Obama is not.