Biden's Plan for Iraq getting serious attention

[Jillian]

http://www.nytimes.com/cq/2007/06/25/cq_2948.html
snip:
Biden has long advocated decentralizing Iraq as a way of stabilizing the country while creating what he calls a “soft landing” for the U.S. to ease to the sidelines. And, for the first time, the Bush administration hinted recently that Biden’s so-called federalism plan, which is attracting bipartisan support from lawmakers, might be worth considering.

“Perhaps we have gotten too focused on the central government, and not enough on the provinces and on the tribes and what is happening in those areas,” Defense Secretary Robert Gates recently told reporters during a trip to Iraq.

If Biden does take the lead in curing the nation’s biggest headache, surely his presidential campaign deserves a boost.

This is a great reference on Biden's plan:
Plan for Iraq: What It Is - and What It Is Not

http://www.planforiraq.com/plan

[HereSince1628]

1. Frankly I think Federalism won't work there any better than it did in the Balkins

Outside agents dividing up a country has a very strong scent of artificiality to it.

But if it gets Americans out of the conflict, GO FOR IT.

[Jillian]

2. From the link I posted

What it is, and what it is not

1. The Plan is not partition.

In fact, it may be the only way to prevent a violent partition - which has already started -- and preserve a unified Iraq. We call for a strong central government, with clearly defined responsibilities for truly common interests like foreign policy and the distribution of oil revenues. Indeed, the Plan provides an agenda for that government, whose mere existence will not end sectarian violence.

[HereSince1628]

4. I was referring to Yugoslavia, It was a federation. It ended VERY badly.

[Jillian]

5. It may not work in Iraq either, and Biden acknowledges that

But dam- at least the administration may consider something else besides adding more troops.

[HereSince1628]

6. Yep. Me too. I'm ready to call enough: enuf.

We can send Americans there to be killed for the next half century, and leave with less to show for it than we have right now.

Time to realize that the business of America isn't international business, but governing itself.

[Like It Is]

7. Yugoslavia!

Yugoslavia was a dictatorship, under Marshall Tito. When Tito died Yugoslavia disintegrated. What I think you are talking about is Bosnia where people were being butchered by the Serbians. The U.S. and NATO intervened, installed a loose federated government which is working out very well, and we didn't lose a single troop!

[jillan]

8. Hi Like It is

Welcome to DU:hi:

You know I am glad you are here!

[HereSince1628]

9. No, I'm saying Yugoslavia was a product of WWI just like Iraq

It was a pasted together federation that cut "nations" into bits and those nations were never satisfied with their share of the pie.

Yes it's true that it was held together by Tito with an iron fist--AS WAS IRAQ.

When the iron fist of control was lost it produced chaos. Just like Iraq.

[Like It Is]

14. Yugoslavia was impossible!

It was a wonder that Tito was able to hold it together, as soon as he died it disintegrated.You are talking about at least 8 countries, Catholics, Muslims and Serbian Orthodox Religions. Iraq is not that splintered, they all believe in Allah, although in different ways. They have enough oil to support themselves comfortably. The Kurds have already separated themselves. We just need to separate The Shiites and Sunnis. Three states in one country. Not ready for Democracy, probably never will be.

[flying rabbit]

17. actually we did lose some troops

mostly to landmines and stuff. very few though, but they still count.

[jillan]

3. It's about time!

I actually was going to post this, there was another article about it in the LA Times.

[demommom]

10. Finally!

YAHOO!

Hopefully this is the beginning of something good! :woohoo:

[welshTerrier2]

11. what does Biden say about the Oil Law?

Does his plan include a clear statement that Iraqi oil should be for the sole benefit of the Iraqi people?

Biden plan still leaves thousands of troops in Iraq, doesn't it?

What does he say about the permanent bases? and the bloated Embassy of Empire the US is building?

For me, any plan that funds US forces in Iraq for any purpose other than their safe and rapid withdrawal is unacceptable.

[Jillian]

12. Welshterrier - The answer to most of your questions is in the op-ed

I provided a link that goes over his plan.

About leaving troops in the area - but out of the civil war - he is no different than Hillary or Barack on this OR any foreign relations expert. The whole goal of our leaving is to not have to go back. The worst thing that could happen is if their civil war spills out over the borders. In fact, I believe Richardson also said troops need to remain in the area.

Biden is completely against permanent basis.

[Like It Is]

13. A last ditch effort.

Biden is trying to solve what Bush screwed up. At least he has a workable plan, The oil money is distributed proportionally between the Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds. I would assume we would leave a Embassy in Baghdad. No other candidate has a real plan like Biden has.

[sbyte]

16. Workable,?? but gives Iran another state.

Bush's solution seems to lean toward toning down the Iranian Dogs, through subversive destabilization, isolation, Or as a last resort, bomb them back to the stone age and take a little oil strip buffer zone for the effort.

The first two steps are just pissing them off. (The Government/Power structure)

Biden Has had his notion of splitting up the country from the beginning.(Very insightfull)
If not President should be considered for secretary of State..

I just wish that we could turn back time. Dang, we need more time to educate our military to Learn thier language and customs more throughly if the US is to be in Iraq. But at this time just by being there some U.S./americanization will take place. The long term plan is they just have to learn to like us.(U.S.)+.... Yea, this is f#%@ked up.

[Bucky]

15. I'm finding all sorts of things to quibble with in Biden's plan

That's a good sign. I'm wary of the federalistic approach mostly because I think it may risk entanglements from Turkey and Iran in the long run and has the potention to aggravate the centrifugal forces there as the Kurdish locals resist the federal authorities "fairly apportioning" the oil revenues.

I'm not seeing the "buy in" point for the more obsinate elements in Iraqi society, particularly the street rabbles breaking away from the Sadrist movement--which in turn is making Sadr himself more troublesome. But that said...

It's the least unworkable plan out there.

[jillan]

18. From this article, it sounds like Biden's plan is definitely worth a try

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20070626/ts_csm/aanbar_1

'Anbar model' under fire

But supporters say the strategy recognizes the reality of the tribes' powerful role in Iraqi society. Tribal sheikhs, or leaders, have already provided valuable intelligence about Al Qaeda operations and members in their areas. The tribes are anxious to change sides, they say, because Al Qaeda has used mass-casualty tactics like car bombings that the tribes find anathema.

US reliance on tribes is also supported by others who have already written off the possibility of seeing a strong central Iraqi government emerge.

"I've been pushing for four years to deal directly with the tribal leaders," said Sen. Joseph Biden (D) of Delaware at a Monitor lunch in Washington Thursday. The US, he added, has to "give up on … the possibility of having a strong central democratic government trusted by all the major constituencies.... It's simply not capable of occurring."

If Iraq is, as President Bush says, the central front in an international war of terrorism, it may make sense to cast one's lot with whatever forces in Iraq are best capable of working against a common enemy in that war – in this case Al Qaeda. But the approach, some say, ignores the possibility that the new allies are enemies themselves of other US priorities in Iraq – or could eventually turn once again against the US.

[justinrr1]

19. In regards to Turkey

Biden says they are realizing that federalism may be the only way to prevent a completely independent Kuridstan which they would likely go to war with. With Biden's plan Kurdistan would be somewhat like a state within the borders of a country - Iraq. Without Biden's plan if this civil war intensifies it is likely that the Kurds will become independent of Iraq which Turkey does not want.