Bye, Bye, Miss American Empire or

[genie_weenie]

the sweet smell of secession.

...the prospect of breaking away from a union once consecrated to liberty and justice but now degenerating into imperial putrefaction will only grow in appeal as we go marching with our Patriot Acts and National Security Strategies through Iraq, Iran, and all the frightful signposts on our road to nowhere.

Let Utah be Utah, and let San Francisco be San Francisco. The policy will drive busybodies mad with frustration, but, it just might be the beginning of tolerance.

Trust local people. That, really, is the soul of the case for secession.

“The military-industrial-energy-media complex is running an empire on the ruins of the republic,” says Rob Williams, who does not think that merely putting Democratic hands on the levers of power will solve anything. It’s the levers themselves that have to be removed.

“I want to leave my country,” says Kirk Sale, “without leaving my home.”

(more) http://www.orionmagazine.org/index.php/articles/article/311

Unfortunately, I don't know if the dissolution of the American Imperial Empire would give rise to unrestrained Corporate Power. However, what I do see today is that Corporate power and interests dominate Congress and the Presidency giving them access to the Use of Force claimed by government, and taping into the government spigot of tax money (3 TRILLION for the DoD since bush claimed power), while programs for the people are underfunded or slashed time after time.

[villager]

1. I'll be damned. I was just thinking of posting some Kirk Sale here on DU

....yesterday.

thanks for the post!

[genie_weenie]

2. I want to add a post from another thread...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3338929&mesg_id=3339286

I've been following the By all means, let's just not vote - thread. I think this post by welshTerrier2 is excellent and highlights what the founders were afraid of with a Uberpowerful Federal System.

The power that is concentrated in DC could be used for good. And has done some good, but for every Civil Rights Act of the 60s there was Operation Linebacker II and the deaths of millions of Vietnamese or Filipinos or Native Americans or Colombians or Hawaiians.

To quote welshTerrier2: "my view of what we have right now is a system that empowers corporations and industries and allows them to fully participate in the political process. citizens cannot possibly match the resources that corporations can bring to bear on an election or on a piece of legislation or on national policy. Iraq? corporate war. Campaign finance. corporate legislation. the Medicare bill. corporate legislation. health care? corporate. tax discounts for stockholders? corporate. education? local communities are forced to scratch and claw, neighbor versus neighbor, about whether to fund the schools or reduce taxes. why? because the federal budget is wasted on corporate welfare." (emphasis mine)

The Federal Government does not represent the people and truth be told it never has and never will.

[DeSwiss]

3. Some saw it at the beginning....

"...crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country. Today, instead, the aristocracy of the corporation has grown to full maturity, wielding power over the state and its laws in the service of corporate aims." ~ Thomas Jefferson (Thirty years after drafting the US Declaration of Independence warning of the dangers posed by the corporation)

[truedelphi]

4. "It’s the levers themselves that have to be removed."

Yes the levers have to be removed. ANd we cannot trust a corporate-beholding candidate to do it -regardless of whether there is a D opr an R after their name.

[genie_weenie]

5. I agree, yet look at the posts in the GD.

Voting for a 3rd party candidate is voting for Republicans, voting for Nader caused the Bush Terror Regime and on and on. Thread after thread trashing those who would vote their conscience or who would choose not the participate in this farce of a Democracy.

The anti-Nader vitriol is particularly galling. Votes for Nader didn't cause the Bush Regime, Bush and the system he inherited caused the Bush Terror Regime. And the underlying basis was what Nader commented on correctly. D or R candidates for Federal office are dominated by corporate interests. The Iraqis suffered pretty badly under Clinton (I will grant not nearly as badly under Bush). And the real bad joke is, only 1/5 of the American people voted for Bush in 2004, anyway!

And both parties realize they have nothing to gain and everything to lose by going away from the either/or 2 party system.

I'm against the war, my Rep in Melissa Bean. Guess how she just voted on the further war funding bill of last month? She was an aye. But, many in Illinois are happy a Dem controls that seat, even if she continues to support occupation, murder, terror and destruction, the feeling is OH WELL!

Anyway, thanks for the response.

[truedelphi]

6. It was Nader, David Cobb and other THIRD PARTY candidates

That insisted that all the votes in Ohio be counted in Nov 2004. They spent the funds they collected for that purpose. They kept the voting rights movement alive.

Whereas on the Democratic side after the stolen debacle that some call an election, you get James Carville - a Clinton Minion if ever there was one - whispering into Kerry's ear, the very morning after the election, that Kerry should concede and concede fast.

And meanwhile, in that same 24 hour time frame, Lady Clinton herself calls up Edwards, the only Democrat to ever take a principled stand and to insist that perhaps things are not what they seem (even the esteemed Gore didn't do that!) and rather than praising Edwards for that stand, she tells him to quit grandstanding!!

As if the second swiped election in five years should not give a candidate a reason to grandstand!