TPMCafe: Hillary's pollster Mark Penn's Firm Tests Negative Messages on Obama and Edwards

[flpoljunkie]

Hillary Pollster Mark Penn's Firm Tests Negative Messages On Obama And Edwards -- Including On $400 Haircut
By Greg Sargent

Lots of people are understandably curious to know what sort of messages Hillary pollster Mark Penn is testing on behalf of her boss right now.

Well, we've got some answers to that question.

Penn's pollsters have been testing various negative messages on both Barack Obama and John Edwards. The messages tested on Obama were that he's inexperienced and that he's voted to fund the war at certain junctures.

A bit more surprising: Penn's firm polled on Edwards' $400 haircut, a line of inquiry that would seem more likely to come from a GOPer than from a fellow Dem's campaign. Penn has already created controversy for Hillary with his anti-union corporate clientele.

A bit of background. This morning, Ben Smith linked to this story in the Iowa Independent. It quoted an Iowa resident named Jason Eness-Potter, who claimed to have received a polling call from a firm called "PSA Interviewing," which is the field office of Penn's firm.

We followed up with a call to Eness-Potter, and he gave us some intriguing details about the call. And we've also tracked down a second person who says she got the call from the pollster and helped flesh out Penn's approach some more.

<>Incidentally, there may be other evidence out there today of Penn's approach. This Daily Kos diarist claims to have received a call from PSA testing his response to that big front-page Times article about Edwards' poverty nonprofit and asking whether that made him more or less favorably disposed towards Edwards. Penn and the Hillary campaign didn't respond to requests for comment.

more...

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/electioncentral/2007/jun/26/poll

[William769]

1. Just taking Obamas lead!

:rofl:

[BeyondGeography]

2. Oh, bullshit...and stop the overuse of Laughing Man while you're at it

[William769]

4. ...

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
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:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
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You really crack me up!

[flpoljunkie]

5. How about some proof for that accusation, William--a silly :rofl: icon is a lame response.

[William769]

6. Lets start with his apology this week.

:eyes:

[BeyondGeography]

8. Sending opposition research to the media and push polling voters

are not the same thing...just trying to help.

[flpoljunkie]

15. Absolutely. Push polling is also favored by Republicans, and a loathsome practice.

[rinsd]

24. Except push polling is done close to an election. Not 9 months out.

If you think Obama and Edwards aren't doing something along the same lines, I have a bridge to sell you.

Where did you think Edwards came up with his new electability argument?

Why do you think the Obama team thought the infamous Punjab memo would have been effective?

[BeyondGeography]

36. Spare us the bridge and give us links about Obama and Edwards doing the same thing

Until then, this is a thread about the charmless Mark Penn and his little push polling operation.

[rinsd]

39. The evidence of it being Mark Penn is the claim of 2 bloggers

And if you think Obama team didn't test out the impact of the Punjab memo before passing it around to the media then I simply cannot help you.

I like Obama and he has shown he is tough enough to both hit back and go on offense.

That isn't done blindly.

[BeyondGeography]

40. Outsourcing is a controversial issue...who knew without a push poll?

Just like Edwards $400 haircut can be used against him....another tidbit that couldn't see air-time without a push poll. Right.

The funny part is guys like Penn make a fortune asking the most obvious fucking questions on earth. Or maybe it's the negative word-of-mouth about the opposition that such tactics inspire that the really appeals to those who pay him.

Either way, you're just flapping your gums until you come up with a link.

[rinsd]

42. Obama is runnign a professional campaign.

To think he isn't doing this is beyond naive.

I will give him kudos that it hasn't slipped to the media the way he got screwed on the punjab memo.

1st rule of oppo research is to get the info out without fingerprints.

[Adelante]

45. It's not a push poll

A push poll is something different, not meant to be collected and analyzed according to a methodology, but more like telemarketing, where thousands of calls go out but take nothing in.

[SaveElmer]

3. Yeah and I'm sure Obama's people are singing Kumbaya...

[Larkspur]

7. Maybe this is a pre-emptive strike on Obama before Moore's move "Sicko"

comes out and broadcasts to Americans that Hillary is the #2 recipient of Healthcare insurance industry money?

[rinsd]

11. Yeah because Obama "only" took in $1/2M for Prez so far and $600K in 2004

[Ethelk2044]

18. Hillary took a hell of a lot more.

[rinsd]

20. True but Obama is hardly clean on this (nt)

[MADem]

9. Well. this kinda shit is real 'inside baseball'--all candidates TEST varying approaches

It doesn't mean they'll actually USE them in media marketing efforts or even in speeches or other messaging venues. But there's no way that they can make decisions if they don't have data about what works and what doesn't.

Any haircut bullshit by HRC opens up the LAX Air Force One haircut story of the Senator's husband. I suspect she would reject that approach no matter how well it polled, because the blowback would be far, far worse.

Now, Obama might be able to get away with haircut sniping, but Clinton? Naaaah....

It is important for people here to understand that all campaigns do this shit--they're looking for visceral reactions to issues. It's how Reagan came up with his "Bear in the woods" ad; it's how Poppy came up with Willie Horton. You find that hot button, and after you've found it, you push it.

[rinsd]

13. Excellent post. (nt)

[mckeown1128]

51. Where were you when everyone jumped on Obama for

having a opposition research team??? Many of us tried to point out during memogate...that he wasn't the only candidate to use that tactic....Now that Hillary has been caught doing something worse, her supporters are trying to brush it away witht the all candidates do it paint. Without proof too.

[Adelante]

10. There is nothing unusual I can see

I'd bet five bucks Edwards and Obama do it too :shrug:

[MADem]

12. That's a sure bet, and you're right--they all do it. The key word in the story is TEST.

They gin up their questions, they see which areas/discussion points get the best "hits" and then they continue to refine their queries until they're batting, if not quite a thousand, at least well enough to see the ball sail out of the park regularly.

I'd say the only candidates on either side not doing this are the ones who cannot afford the media marketing/PR firms that do this kind of work--Kucinich, Gravel, Ron Paul...

It wouldn't surprise me if Bloomberg has hired a firm to start making calls, too.

[William769]

14. Consider the source.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3338639&mesg_id=3338639

That thread says it all.

[flpoljunkie]

16. Of course, you must mean MSNBC's First Read, William--or Josh Marshall's TPM Cafe?

[rinsd]

19. Small point but it wasn't Josh Marshall (nt)

[flpoljunkie]

21. This information came from Josh Marshall's TPMCafe. The Celine Dion was from MSNBC's First Read.

[rinsd]

22. I realize that but it was not written by Marshall (nt)

[flpoljunkie]

23. Geez, I never said that it was. The OP plainly states "by Greg Sargent."

[rinsd]

30. Not besides the point but I think when William said the source he was referring to you (nt)

[Ethelk2044]

27. provide link where it states Obama took money

[rinsd]

28. I think you are replying to a different post but here you go.

I believe Open Secrets is the same source Moore used.

For Prez 1st Q - http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/indus.asp?id=N00009638&cycle=2008

$357,417.00 health professionals
$88,598.00 insurance
$51,950.00 pharma

$497,965.00

During his 2004 run

http://www.opensecrets.org/races/summary.asp?ID=ILS2&Cycle=2004

$332,013.00 health professionals
$169,232.00 insurance
$118,550.00 hospitals/retirement homes

$619,795.00


Oh and apparently in 2006 he raised this though I am unsure if OpenSecrets rolls those over to his Prez totals (doesn't seem that way though)

http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/indus.asp?CID=N00009638&cycle=2006

$363,713.00 health professionals
$183,132.00 insurance
$146,175.00 hospitals/retirement homes

$693,020.00

[Ethelk2044]

31. This is individuals giving money to him.

http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/coded.asp



If I give money to him and add my industry. It does not mean that industry gave money to him. It is individual donors. Stop trying to say some corporation gave him money it is individual contributions.

While the Center makes every effort to assign an industry or interest group code to every contribution of $200 or more, it's not always possible to do that. PAC contributions are virtually 100% identified, but many individual contributions simply cannot be categorized. The charts below show how much of the member's contributions have been successfully coded by the Center, and how many remain unclassified



Those with no information about the donor's occupation or employer, or information so vague - like "businessman" or "self-employed" - that no code can be applied.

Homemakers, students and others with no direct income, when they can't be connected with the family income-earner. (Where the wage-earner is known, their category code is applied to all non-income-earners within the family).

Contributions where the employer is listed, but the Center wasn't able to categorize it. Though we try, we can't always identify the economic interest of every employer listed by donors. The Center uses a variety of reference materials that list companies by "Standard Industrial Codes," but due to limitations of time and staff resources, we can't get to them all. Others may not be listed in any phone books, business guides, or other resources, so their economic interest remains unknown.

Over the years, the Center has usually been able to identify about 99% of PAC contributions and about 65-70% of individual contributions for most candidates - at least by the end of the election cycle. We're always trying to improve those ratios, but the faster the money rolls in, the harder it is to keep on top of it. Please bear with us!

[rinsd]

32. So Hillary also got money mostly from individuals and Michael Moore is being dishonest?

The arguments of Hillary getting the most health care dollar hinges on this info so I would answer carefully.

[Ethelk2044]

35. I took the quotes from the website you gave me.

[rinsd]

37. So the same holds true for Hillary then?

[hedgehog]

47. Checking the link, Obama is credited with receiving 100% of his

contributions from individuals, Hillary only 72%. 28% of hillary's money comes from "other" which includes loans and interest on bank accounts.

[rinsd]

50. The other 28% is the $10M she transfered from her Senate account. (nt)

[Hart2008]

17. Is there a connection between Penn's polling and the NY Times hit piece?

This Daily Kos diarist claims to have received a call from PSA testing his response to that big front-page Times article about Edwards' poverty nonprofit and asking whether that made him more or less favorably disposed towards Edwards. Penn and the Hillary campaign didn't respond to requests for comment.

Since the NY Times was so helpful to Team Hillary outing the Obama staffer's Indian oursourcing expose, might there be a connection to the NY Times hit piece on Edwards?

hmmmmmmmmm

[Totally Committed]

25. Anyone else think these "win at all costs" gambits are just a little TOO RW-ish?

If she thinks she can win, she should do it without destroying the Dems in the process. Just shows how (R) she's willing to be, imo.

Ugh. Lieberman was like that in the last primaries. It was disgraceful.

TC

[William769]

26. And Obama is just a Choir boy.

:eyes:

[Totally Committed]

44. I never said that, now, did I?

To be honest, Obama is, at this point, too centrist, too corporatist, and too ambitious for me as well. This is a thread about Hillary, not Obama. His campaign is no picnic either.

Defend Mrs. Clinton if you can, but this is not a thread about Obama.

TC

[rinsd]

29. LOL. where are your words for the various factions of the left out fto get Hillary?

Or is it ok to only go after Hillary?

[ShortnFiery]

33. What part of "45% of our electorate dislike HRC?" She can NOT win - but she will drag us down. n/t

She's not liked IMO, because her hunger for power "at any price" shows and it is very disheartening to see. :(

[rinsd]

34. More founts of wisdom from you huh?

:rofl:

[paulk]

49. all candidates do this

RW-ish?

What an absurd post.

[Forkboy]

38. The only defense is "They do it too".

Time for a change from both camps.

[blm]

41. Did Penn and Hill's team EVER test attacks on BushInc and his policies the last 7yrs?

And if they did, did they ever try to use them the last 7yrs to help the Democratic party and those lawmakers sticking their necks out throughout that time to oppose Bush and Cheney?

Was Rumsfeld and ABu Ghraib worthy of an attack? Was Condolleeza Rice ever attacked by them the last 7yrs? Was Gonzalez? Was Rove? Was Libby? Was Alito? Downing Street Memos?

[DaveinMD]

43. so what

that's what campaigns do.

[jcrew2001]

46. So is Penn behind the Hillaryis44 hit site?

i've also seen some posters here with the 44 logo - can't remember who they are.

[illinoisprogressive]

48. hmmmm. dont' you wonder if Penn;'s smudgy fingers are on the Hillary 44 site????