So.......Dean is Dead and Gore Lost "2000." Pack my bags and get the

[KoKo]

hell outta Dodge! Nader is running.....and I wouldn't have voted for him "last time," but I'm a pretty mad Dem at this point and am suffering
from Media, DLC/DNC/Daschle/PINK TUTU RAGE at this point and I'm mad as hell (as I said) and NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!

Should I consider "Third Party?" Nader is not "electible" except as a Protest Vote...

But, I'm sick as hell of the "manipulation" that's gone on in this Primary where we all got "Into" the whole thing with the Debates and then the Dem Leadership pulled the rug from under us by eliminating the Voices for Change from our Party.

They didn't support Gore in "Selection 2000" and then Gore gives "blockbuster speeches" which only "Move On.org" shows with C-Span" and when Gore endorses Dean the Dem Leadership "Heads for the Hills" and runs after Kerry's bod.

Now we have everything decided and it's Kerry/Edwards....Kerry/Clark...but Kerry/Edwards has the best JFK ring to it.

Who the hell in America even remembers who JFK was...or what he stood for???

But somehow our Dem Leadership is going for some "Marketing Campaign" appealing to only a small percentage of Americans who even know what the "old Dem" values were about?

Dean is Dead......Long live JFK??? Give me a break here!!!

[David Dunham]

1. It's Now Kerry v. Bush. A vote for Nader is again a vote for Bush.

[Padraig18]

4. When did Kerry win his 2161st delegate?

I must have missed that, because he can't be the nominee until then.

[retyred]

16. You can catch the replay at the convention!

retyred in fla
“Good-Night Paul, Wherever You Are”
So I read this book

[KFC]

2. Thank you. We all need to get behind Kerry now.

Dean was a distraction.

JFKerry is our nominee. Let's gather around and beat Bush.

Loyal ABB

[Rowdyboy]

3. For Christ's sake, Dean is still in the race

If you believe in him, send him money and work for him. But quit blaming others for his failures. He had $40 million plus and its gone and he still hasn't won a state. That's nobody's fault but Dean's.

[KoKo]

9. I have and did.....but seems media and Dean didn't get it.....he's dead

according to DU and the Media. :shrug: just what I see......and hear.

[Rowdyboy]

12. Not from me...My candidate was Wesley Clark...He's DEAD...

your's still can pull it off. Wish I could still say that.

[MoonRiver]

25. Exactly.

[Old and In the Way]

27. Still posting the "Democrats who voted for Kerry are media dupes",

eh?

Pretty pathetic smear, Koko01. I got an idea. Look at Howard Dean and ask why the majority of Democrats are rejecting his campaign. It's not because they disagree with his message (in general). It's because they would rather bet on someone who they think reflects their values, attributes, and ideals of what a President should be.

You can make this a selfish issue (your emotional attachment to Dean) or you can be a Democrat and support the nominee when the time comes. Those are your choices.

[Nazgul35]

41. hahaha...

With one hand you slam someone for using a cliche about why Kerry is winning....

And with the other you suggest that the Dems voting for Kerry possess knowledge that they do not have.....

Poll after poll in every primary shows that Dems voting for Kerry are doing so because he's winning....

Look at Howard Dean and ask why the majority of Democrats are rejecting his campaign. It's not because they disagree with his message (in general). It's because they would rather bet on someone who they think reflects their values, attributes, and ideals of what a President should be.

still push that tired old meme that Kerry is winning because the "voters" have looked at his record and policies and chose him because he is superior to all the other candidates....

Voters are not voting for Dean because he was in first, but lost big in Iowa....they are voting for Kerry because he keeps winning....

I would like you to show me (with evidence) how Kerry went from nowhere in the polls in all the other states, but jumped to the lead in the polls after Iowa, and a commanding lead after NH......

How exactly did all those voters, who were rejecting Kerry prior to his win suddenly see the light?

I was talking about the importance of winning Iowa months ahead of the race....and the biggest group of people who were arguing that it wouldn't matter were Kerry supporters....and considering where they were in the polls at the time...I understood why....

But now that Kerry has benefited from the very effect I described, now they believe it is some kind of mandate on his policies and he "reflects their values, attributes, and ideals of what a President should be."

Please....his support is soft....let's hope he doesn't do anything to screw up or all that overwhelming support will disappear over night....

Or will you suggest that if Bush beats Kerry next fall that it is because voters believe he "reflects their values, attributes, and ideals of what a President should be."

[janx]

29. Dean is still raising money and is probably in better fiscal

shape than anyone.

But the media have done a number on him and I don't know if he can recover.

[Bonhomme Richard]

5. Don't make the mistake I made last election

I was disgusted with the corporate control in Washington and voted for Nader.
It didn't matter much as I am in Connecticut and the state went for Gore but all the same I still felt as though I wasted my vote.
If Nader actually does run it will scream volumes to his insincerity knowing what the bushistas are doing.
No vote for Nader this time around. The stakes are way too high.

[movonne]

7. ABB!!!!!

[NoPasaran]

6. Dean is not dead

Dean is not dead until I say he's dead. And I ain't saying it yet.

Stop letting the media do your thinking for you.

[bushwakker]

8. the voters pulled the rug from under Dean

i hope you support whomever the dem nominee is.

[Padraig18]

11. You must have missed the DU memo.

Kerry IS the nominee, we're all being told...

[KFC]

19. Correct. Time to get behind Kerry.

I'm not a big Bush fan.

[Padraig18]

31. Talk to me when more than 20% of the voters have voted.

I'm NOT getting behind Kerry until he has his 2161st delegate.

[BuelahWitch]

37. Me either, Padraig

Memo or no memo!

[KoKo]

20. I'm Dean/Kucinich......given to both........but they are dying/dead and

Kerry is the Electable One......what do I do. I'm very angry...bordering on Socialist at this point and used to consider myself "Mainstream America."

I can't stant this "Pink Tutu" Dem stuff crammed down my throat with "Frontloaded Primaries" and Daschle/Reid blanket approval of whatever Crap Bush sent down the line in the Congress.

I'm "MAD AS HELL" and SICK OF ALL THIS! Gore (Our TRUE ELECTED PRES.) is trashed because he endorsed Dean and Media then gave Dean the "kiss of death of association with Gore) and it's BUSINESS AS USUAL.

No....I have to take a stand or why did I spend all this time on this "Underground" website? WHY???? If the Dem Leadership already decided then who am I? And WHY aren't they listening to me?

After awhile you get it.....that they don't give "sh**t about you" and you say "I don't give sh**t about YOU EITHER!

I WON'T TOW PARTY LINE.....MCAuliff "piece of work..collect the $$$'s and go on." I WILL NOT DO IT!

Our Dem Leadership has caved and makes me ill to my gut.....GO TO HELL DLC/DNC! Go "do something" to yourself in private. :grr:

[EXE619K]

28. I agree with your sentiments.

However, what did you mean, when you said "go do something to yourself in private"?

[anti-NAFTA]

10. I am in the same position as you,.

I am not really a Dean supporter anymore, I'm pretty much anyDem but Kerry since he's the biggest free tra(it/d)o/er in the race. Disgusted with this Kerry stuff even though I still loathe Dean for doing what he did to Gephardt, who was the most socialist candidate(aside from DK).

[still_one]

15. but who will you support

who will you support if Kerry gets the nomination?

Have you read the book "Tour of Duty"?

[anti-NAFTA]

18. If Kerry gets the nom.

I haven't thought about that. I'll probably support Kerry unless he says some really centrist pro-freetrade crap that goes against his current stump speech. In that case, I'd support some socialist third party, but not nader. Never,

[lancdem]

13. KoKo, we absolutely must get rid of Bush

I ask that you please consider that, even if your chosen candidate does not get the nomination.

[KoKo]

43. Agree, we must get rid of Bush....but it doesn't stop there, ...the fight

is worse and will be longer and harder than I EVER IMAGINED! And.....I think (not you and others on this post) but that those who signed up to DU....and are partisan warriors....don't even know how dark these times are and that it's NOT a Game....it won't be finished if....and I say IF we get a Dem in....the damage is too great and that BOTH parties are in it all up to their hip boots.

I wouldn't have known so much of that when 2 and 1/2 years ago I joined DU looking for people who were so upset about "Selection 2000 and the Hunting of the President (Clinton)" but I thought it would just be a change of Presidents.

Now, I know it will be longer and harder...and I feel weak to be able to have the energy to go on with what I see going on out there.

That's what I'm saying. It's not just this coming election...it will be Grassroots and more than any of us really knew until we "TAKE BACK AMERICA!" Or, the America we believed in maybe innocently?

So much WORK....and where do we find the will to do it, given that we have almost no sucesses under our belts since Clinton.....and through Gore and the last election. :shrug:

[EXE619K]

14. Vote for your heart's content.

ABB = "Those who do not stand with the President, stands with the terrorists!".

Same Black mail.

Different camps.

Your vote = your voice.

[burned]

17. KoKo

I was so raring to go and so happy for the chance I felt we were given and now I feel like a popped balloon, unpolitical, NOTHING NEW is going to happen.
I feel flat, passionless....and betrayed.
I dont know what to do except eat the damn forcefed meal and wait another four years for another go.

I voted FOR my candidate today by absentee ballot. In November I will vote AGAINST bush.

[KoKo]

23. Eat the "damned FORCED MEAL!" GEEZE! If this is what it's coming to then

what the hell is it all about....You hit the nail on the head. ABB really means: EAT IT! The FORCED MEAL.....and if you have to hold nose and later vomit it back..no matter...it's for the ha! ha! GOOD OF THE DEM PARTY...that you do this.

:toast: to you for saying it like it is! :nuke:

[MurikanDemocrat]

21. How to you justify

saying that the Dem Leadership is appealing to only a small percentage of Americans? I presume you are referring to Kerry? This statement flies in the face of logic, since the facts show that the Democratic body has overwhelmingly proved the opposite of what you are saying with their votes.

And also, how do you justify saying that only a small percentage of Americans even know what the "old Dem" values were about? I've been a Democrat all my life, as are many of the voters who have thus far participated in these primaries, and I'm getting mighty tired of being told that I am no longer a "REAL DEMOCRAT" because I do not support Howard Dean.

[Padraig18]

24. With only 20% voting so far, LOGIC dictates otherwise.

80% of the voters have not yet voted, so your analysis is dead wrong.

[MurikanDemocrat]

26. But we DO know how they are going to vote

We have polls in every state, most showing Kerry in the lead, by LARGE margins.

[burned]

38. WHY are they voting for Kerry?

NO ONE can tell me why exactly. They can't seem to put it in the context of where he stands except tall with medals and cool initials.

Because the image makers everywhere have convinced the same public that buys Crest because its best.. that Kerry is the MOST ELECTABLE and THE WINNER, because Howard Dean smiled and screamed back at 3000 of his very own special interests. Finally he did something that could be manipulated bigtime by the very same media cartel he said he would break up.

They even fixed Kerry's face for the TV.

I will feel ashamed if I have to vote for him to get Bush out.
I might even vomit afterwards. seriously.

I'm ashamed that people have fallen for this.

[MurikanDemocrat]

39. It's not that people don't have perfectly valid reasons

for supporting Kerry, and/or justifying their votes for Kerry. That is disingenuous on your part. It's that no answer will satisfy you. You have already determined this.

It's not true that Kerry does not stand for anything but medals. Kerry has an exemplary 35 year record and history on liberal causes that proves otherwise, as well as a comprehensive platform now that he is running on.

I've been a Democrat all my life, and I feel absolutely no shame in my support of Kerry. Nor do I feel any need to convince you of my reasons why I support Kerry.

[burned]

40. Honestly

I don't even get what you just gave me from most people.
Which was sort of lame but at least it wasnt the usual sputter and smile.
His record is hardly EXEMPLARY. I checked. :)

[HFishbine]

33. More Math

50% of 20% of 36% of the electorate has voted for Kerry.

3.6% of the electorate has voted for Kerry.

(36% is percentage of democrats out of total electorate, 20% is percentage who have voted so far, 50% is approximate percentage who have gone to Kerry.)

[Padraig18]

42. Thank you, HFishbine!

And because 3.6% have voted for Kerry, I'm supposed to kneel at the altar of the annointed one? :P

[MidwestMomma]

22. I feel your pain and anger

But what to do? I think we should build the biggest grass root anti-DLC organization EVER and support the Democratic nominee to defeat Bush but use the power of this organization to hold that nominee's feet to the fire to represent and uphold the principles of the Democratic Party.

I know it sounds like a pie-in-the-sky idea. It's just the best I have right now.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[MuseRider]

30. Dean is NOT dead

until Dean says he is dead. I am saying this as someone who does not even like Dean. I know the pain of hearing all of this, Kucinich supporters hear this stuff all the time too. I was like you for a while and I am angry about what is going on with our party but Kerry is winning the votes. Those seem to me two separate issues. I have come to the point where I will vote for the nominee but I vow to work as a progressive and not let that part of the party die. Think about it. I do understand how angry you are and what you do is your choice and your right but I just thought that I wanted to chime in. It stinks sometimes but we are mobilized and I am not willing to let this die. Up to you. You guys have the worse situation of being the number 1 and going down, it makes this even harder for you.

[salinen]

32. Yes, I am going to eat that shitburger

and tears will fall on the buns. Only a fucker as nasty as Cheney could make me say this.

[MuseRider]

35. WELL said. n/t

[MoonRiver]

34. What's the point of all this?

If you don't want to vote for the Dem nominee, which looks like will be Kerry, then don't. I've lost my beloved candidate, and have cried many tears over that fact. But I have no time to obsess about my emotional angst. We are in the fight of our lives to save this country from fascism, pure and simple. I'll vote for Kerry in a New York minute. However, I completely respect your right to disagree.

[DemBones DemBones]

36. In all the primaries to date, the voters have

shown their greatest support for Kerry and Edwards. The Democratic voters are saying that they don't believe Dean -- OR Kucinich, OR Sharpton, OR Clark -- is the man they want to run against Bush and be our next president.

I still believe that Dennis Kucinich is the best candidate we've had come forward in my lifetime -- best in terms of a progressive platform, ability to articulate what's wrong in this country and how he would fix it, and political record. But the voters are rejecting him for one reason or another. There are definitely some, as I've seen in voter interviews, who support Dennis but vote for someone else they feel has more widespread appeal because it is essential to get the Bush Dauphin out of office.

It's very disappointing to me that Dennis Kucinich is not winning -- and has had no support from the media or the DLC or DNC. He has raised between 10-12 million dollars from his grassroots network and has support from many who are widely supported in the progressive community. And he continues to campaign and get his message out. I will vote for him on Super Tuesday.

(You may laugh at Kucinich's fundraising, comparing it to Dean's, but I read today that Hillary Clinton raised 40 million for her successful Senate campaign, so perhaps Dean's 40 million plus is insufficient for a national campaign. I don't know. I only know that Dean's 40 million plus has not helped him win votes. All his internet support hasn't helped him win votes. Who knows why?)

Voting for IWR simply pales in comparison to the machinations of the Bushistas in launching the war against Saddam. So if the choice is a Dem who voted for IWR vs. Bush, who lied to get people to support his war, I'll vote for the Dem. The Dem may be the familiar lesser of two evils choice again, but this election is certainly the most crucial of our lifetimes.

If Bush is polling 95% in your state just before the election, then go ahead and vote for Nader. But if there's any chance the Democratic nominee can win your state, vote for him and help us get Bush out. Then work to reform the Democratic Party OR build the Green Party, or both if you like.

November 2004 is the wrong time to try to send the DNC or DLC a message.

November 2004 is the time to send the Bushistas and the neocons packing!!!

[Moderator]

44. locked

10. Do not use excessive capitalization or excessive punctuation in any post.