Edwards slams the Third Way/corporate "we'll retrain outsourced workers" meme

[draft_mario_cuomo]

You can listen to 4 minutes of the speech at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jcn5rWEKPI

I could not find a transcript for the speech so am typing the relevant portion as I heard it. If I am wrong, feel free to point that out!

Edwards has seen firsthand the consequences of manufacturing jobs being lost. It is not an academic issue to him. It is easy for millionaires to trot out the job retraining meme, especially when they enjoy large fatcat and corporate support. John Edwards speaks the truth about this. The meme is absurd and the issue is about much, much more than simply having a job. It is about personal dignity. Unfortunately, this is lost on far too many politicians who will never have their jobs outsourced.

"It is all well and good to have politicians in Washington who roll through and say, 'Well, when your jobs are going we're going to help you. We're going to give you job training. We're going to help re-educate you.' What do you say to a 55 year old man who has spent his entire life with dignity and self-respect supporting his family. You're going to re-educate him? Re-educate him to do what? He's worked all his life. He's gone to work every day, 40 to 50 hours a day at least every week so that his children and his grandchildren could have a better life. Isn't that what America is supposed to be about?"

[wtmusic]

1. agree/disagree

That politicians largely give lip service to retraining, and that American corporate salaries are ridiculously high: no doubt. But that someone should be guaranteed a job manufacturing typewriters for instance, or be guaranteed pay which companies can now find for one-tenth the price offshore, or that a 55-year-old man can't be retrained to do a job and do it with dignity and self-respect, or that his children wouldn't have a better life with that job: nonsense.

Of course, the point is moot because surely Edwards doesn't benefit from any products which were made with outsourced labor. :sarcasm:

[venable]

9. do you have any products made from outsourced labor?

I thought so.

So, I guess that means you don't give a hoot about outsourcing. That's a shame.

[1932]

11. I guess we all have to just shut up about it and not try to make world better, eh?

[wtmusic]

13. Lots of 'em

Too many to mention. Does Edwards donate all the money he saves because of cheap foreign labor to worthwhile causes, or does he stuff it in his pocket?

I thought so.

[1932]

14. Yours is a recipe for "shut up and accept it"

god forbid that we have a presidential candidate who makes a big deal about this and isn't as pure as Jesus.

[wtmusic]

16. A lack of hypocrisy isn't too high a standard

and I'd like to hear Edwards at least mention the fact that he, like everyone else, profits substantially from having cheap foreign goods and that we will all have to pay more for those goods if we limit imports.

But those words can't make it past his lips.

[1932]

17. Your measure of "hypocrisy" is absurd.

He becomes president. He takes care of workers. He's a hypocrite for taking care of workers because of what? Because he didn't calculate the money he saved thanks to globalization and he didn't give it all to whom? The workers whose lives he improves by becoming president?

You're insane.

[wtmusic]

20. And your argument, like his, has no substance.

"Take care of workers"? How? By limiting outsourcing? By making those same workers pay more for the products they save on every day? Or by stroking them on their dignity, self-respect, working 40-50 hours a week so their children and grandchildren could have a better life? :cry:

When I see some real proposals and their real impacts out of Edwards instead of posturing, I'll have an iota of respect for his "platform".

[1932]

21. read my last post (and read this one).

Do you know how globalization is working (or not working)? We throw working people to the wolves when their useful work life is over because that's good for the corporate bottomm line. That's no way to reproduce society.

Edwards is saying that we can't do that. And I'm sure you can think of five different things we can do to stop that. I can. More Defined Benefit pension plans. Improved social security. Shifting some of the profits corporations make ruining lives into taking care of lives and the earth. Not support trade bills with countries without labor and environmental protections (which edwards did as senator). Support unions (which edwards does).

Cheap products my ass. Corporate profits are skyrocketing. The prices they charge are a small percentage of what they cost. Corporations aren't passing on cost savings. They're concentrating more and more wealth in fewer hands. And, furthermore, the goverment subsidies corporate profits to a shocking degree. Corps get a transportation infrastructure, court system, no-bid contracts, and a law-writing service that they don't pay taxes to support -- that's where they're finding their real cost savings.

From everythying I've heard Edwards say, I get the impression he's not on board with that bullshit.

Oh, but he's a hypocrite because he doesn't pay a second time for the social and political damage globalization is costing all of us.

Your argument is insanely regressive. Yeah, we're all living like kings becaue imported products are cheap. These last 10 years have been a real golden age for american society. Shut up and buy.

[wtmusic]

25. I agree with the changes you mention re: post-retirement

and no doubt social security needs to be improved -- namely, make the SS trust fund untouchable for other purposes like starting wars, so that seniors will know their futures are secure.

Trade bills that require labor and environmental protections are meaningless. They are unenforceable, and allow people to continue buying sneakers made in Asia thinking all the little Asian kiddies have full health coverage, when nothing could be further from the truth. And we can't even enforce environmental protections in the US.

Blindly supporting unions is not an answer either. Funny thing about unions -- when they get strong enough, they become just like corporations. They exploit, and hurt the people they were supposed to benefit.

There are two concrete steps which can benefit American workers immediately, but both involve swallowing a bitter political pill. They are:

1) Raise corporate income tax. Today's average corp tax rate is 22% per annum down from 47% in the 70's. Who's making up the difference in many, many ways? You guessed it: American workers.

2) Put some teeth back into the Sherman Act and enforce anti-trust. Rampant monopolism has put unions at a distinct disadvantage more than any economic trends or even outsourcing.

Why doesn't Edwards support either of these? Unfortunately those guys write the big checks. When he really takes on the big guys -- and their pockets -- I'll take him at his word.

And you are just delusional if you have hypnotized yourself into thinking that you don't benefit from cheap products made overseas.

[1932]

22. By the way, I have a real problem with two of your premises: globalization is good

and anyone who receives any tiny benefit, no matter how indirect or tenuos has to shut up and cannot criticize the source of that benefit. According to that logic, everyone on DU should probably just log off go to the mall where we can enjoy the pleasures of buying cheap crap we don't need.

I find both of your premises deeply regressive and I'm rubbing my eyes, because that looks like Cindy Sheean and Cynthia McKinney in your post.

[wtmusic]

27. My guess is

that even a lot of things you do need you saved on because they were made overseas.

Rub your eyes--then when your vision has cleared, run out and buy The Great Unraveling by NYT columnist/Princeton economist Paul Krugman. He not only has impeccable liberal credentials but sees many ways the US and the world (all kind of the same thing now, isn't it?) can benefit by globalization vs. tribalization.

[mrgorth]

40. Fuck yes

limit outsourcing. Tariff the shit out of companies who move offshore and then try to sell w/in the US.

[1932]

18. Hypocrisy, by the way, is, e.g., when you invade a country to bring them "democracy"

and then turn that country into a money maker for private corporations who create a fascists' fantasy land in that country.

[1932]

19. Furthermore, we no longer benefit from globalization (American economic imperialism)

it's pulling us all down, so I'm not sure Edwards needs to account to anyone. He's not benefitting from it and neither are you and I. Becoming president an stopping this race for the bottom/concentrate as much wealth as possible to the hands of the few doesn't invoke a hypocrisy calculation. We all need to fight it because it's killing all of us.

[venable]

36. you are expressing your unbridled disdain for Edwards

here's my counter to your emphatic standard (met, by the way, by nobody in the race, and very, very few US citizens anywhere)

the american consumer benefit from outsourcing is known.

the cost to the american worker is known.

john edwards weighs the two and decides that he should support the american worker.

that's what I want from a leader on this subject.

again, do you have anything, anything at all, that was made by outsourcing? if you do, you should not be bringing this up. even if you don't (congratulations, by the way), your argument has nothing to do with what we want from our leaders.

You don't like Edwards. We get it.

[wtmusic]

37. not that simple

Here's one thing I like a lot about Edwards: he admitted his IWR vote was a mistake. That's more than I've heard out of anyone else -- Kerry, Clinton, anyone who voted for it. That is the first step toward righting the wrong in Iraq that everyone else just doesn't seem to get.

Yet Edwards has an image problem and it has more than a little to do with the gulf between his rhetoric and $600 haircuts and private basketball courts. No doubt the price of athletic shoes is not of major concern to a millionaire. But a leader should not only be able to recognize but to admit that with trade restrictions will come a very tangible cost to American workers: increased prices on just about every non-perishable item they buy. Without that the idea of "supporting the American worker" is nothing more than lip service.

[venable]

43. yes, complex. i agree

what one hopes is that whatever leader we are left with will navigate these complex waters with a sense of the common man, and with little admiration for bloated corporate profits especially when they mean only bloated paydays for the avaricious CEOs.

peace and justice and fairness. is that too much to ask of a modern state?

[draft_mario_cuomo]

32. Exactly

That is a convenient standard to preserve the status quo. Anyone who benefited at all from globalization cannot oppose flawed trade. Since everyone in America has benefited from cheap products made overseas (their existence frees up more money to buy other things, which boosts the rest of the economy. So even if you magically never bought a foreign product you still have benefited some from "globalization") no one here should oppose the status quo.

[wtmusic]

33. Then he should be honest about the impacts

Things working people buy every day will likely cost more, and there will be less selection. The economy will need to find a boost in other ways.

Does he mention that anywhere?

[draft_mario_cuomo]

35. You forgot to mention the benefits of keeping jobs here

Globalization is not a one-way street. On balance, we benefit if we keep jobs here. Henry Ford long ago proved that if we pay American workers sufficient wages the entire economy--including employers--benefit from the increased spending that results from decent wages. When our trade policies cause someone with a $55,000 manufacturing job to be forced to go on unemployment for months and then take a $30,000 job the economy takes a hit from the lost consumption of that worker.

[Skittles]

44. why SHOULD I be retrained???

I work in Information Technology and I am DAMN good at what I do - I have worked hard all my life - WHY SHOULD I BE RETRAINED????? WHY ARE THE JOBS IN MY FIELD NO LONGER AVAILABLE???????????

[MiserableFailure]

46. what is the solution?

the government cannot prohibit companies from moving jobs overseas. all they can do is give them incentives to stay if they choose to do so, or they can give more unemployment benefits to the people laid off, but if your job goes overseas, nothing can really be done to get that job back.

[madfloridian]

2. I will find the Third Way article tomorrow.

I am glad to see Edwards speaking out on this.

Recommended.

[gulliver]

3. Edwards has the right attitude on this.

Outsourcing usually sucks anyway. You get shoddy results when you can't even speak the same language as the people trying to do the work. And then the overseas people are just asking for more money anyway.

The only thing outsourcing does is cost the managers who decide to do it their jobs.

[MonteLukast]

4. Didn't it say that, also, in...

... Business Week, or something? "The Cost Of Offshoring" or something.

It basically punctured a big hole in the "outsourcing is good for the bottom line" meme. To me, it implied that mainly, offshoring was good for fattening CEOs' wallets. Not even the company necessarily.

[Nutmegger]

5. KICK

for Edwards.

[The Backlash Cometh]

6. This "retraining" is a red herring anyways.

First of all, between school counseling and current curriculum, every college kid should be assured that the school is going to give him a diploma that will guarantee success in a certain field. Second, this "retraining" is a joke when you realize that schools are becoming diploma mills. There is no purpose in those courses, but to teach kids a rudimentary knowledge of a certain field. So it's like a puppy mill, where it's about bulk, and not about producing a strong, healthy graduate.

The first indication that something is wrong, is that the Republicans are quick to take over the Board of Regents, not just to make sure they have control of the curriculum, but also to make sure they can vote in fat checks for themselves, at the cost of the teachers and students.

[1932]

12. I think Edwards's point is that education/training works for first 25-30 yrs of your career

but when you get into that last 10-15 years, we have to have a society that takes care of people who would otherwise lose out to rapid changes in the economy.

With all the wealth created by a rapidly adaptable economy, I think we should be able to do this.

[The Backlash Cometh]

24. I agree with him, to an extent.

Living here in Florida, I find that Seniors are pretty good at killing anything that doesn't cater to them.

However, I see Edwards point, because that crossover age between 50-55 makes a lot of people bitter because corporations dump people at that age.

[wtmusic]

15. Every college graduate should be guaranteed success in a certain field?

Wouldn't that be nice. :rofl:

[The Backlash Cometh]

26. I went back for a second degree, and what I saw wasn't promising.

Curriculms were cut back just to teach kids the basics, and all the Advanced classes were, practically speaking, non-existence. Teachers weren't really looking for argument or class discussion or any kind of challenge. They just wanted to teach what they knew, unchallenged. Of course, they were all lawyers, and not teachers, so that might have had something to do with it.

[xchrom]

7. recommend

[JVS]

8. You know, if Bush had said "40 to 50 hours a day " we'd be all over him for the mistake

Retraining is Bullshit though and it's good that Edwards speaks out about that

[ljm2002]

23. Here is what he said:

"He's gone to work every day. 40 to 50 hours at least, every week..."

The OP noted that their transcript might not be 100% accurate.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

29. Thanks. Sorry I did not proofread! nt

[draft_mario_cuomo]

30. He said hours a week nt

[JVS]

31. Oh, ok good

[venable]

10. K & R nt

[bvar22]

28. I could vote for Edwards!

though he is not my first choice.
A Hillary/Obama nomination will GUARANTEE a strong 3rd Party run from a Populist that would split the Democratic vote handing the election to Republicans.

Then the wailers and gnashers of teeth will blame the 3rd party populist and not the stupidity of the Democratic Party for nominating a Corporatist platform.


The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[ChiciB1]

34. I WILL Vote For Edwards!! If We Can Get MSM To Stop Hyping Just WHO

will be our Democratic Nominee this far out, Edwards is a VERY LIKELY candidate! Take away the simplistic nonsense about hair-cuts and the war that ALMOST EVERYONE VOTED FOR, his policies and what he believes WE as Americans are capable of, makes him very COMPELLING!

To those who are waiting for Gore to run I will state again that I don't think he will. What he achieved yesterday with LIVE EARTH gave him more credibility than he ever got running for AND winning in 2000! Why would he want to jump back into what THEY did to him???

And yesterday was phenomenal! I hope that somewhere, sometime they will have a DVD produced that the public can purchase! I know I would buy one. Plus Al Gore has said some very nice things to say about John Edwards in the past. Now don't ask me to produce them because I don't recall where I heard them, but I DID!!

It would be SO FINE to have Al Gore get on the Edwards Team!!!

[waiting for hope]

38. Kick and A Rec -

For Edwards - His whole platform of issues is based upon helping to uplift the American people, and for that, I support him 110%. It's a shame that others are holding him to a higher standard, much higher than the other candidates running. I'm looking at his life's work and what that says about the person. He has defended people that could not speak for themselves over and over, I'll know he'll defend us.

[OHdem10]

39. We have permitted our Politicians to get away

with the usual "Education is the answer" We will provide
for "re-training" to the country's detriment.

Education is fine as a long term goal. That may help younger
childredn still in school.

What are the jobs available right now? What are the jobs for
which they should be retrained?

According to Alan Blinder, former V-Chair of Federal Reserve,
there will be Forty Million(40,000,000) job dislocations.
This includes a lot of professionals, and high tech workers.

Until we have leaders who are willing to stand up and say with
meaning from their heart---We are willing to re-visit our
trade agreements and work with other world leaders on the
issue---they are blowing smoke. Yes the re-training and
education have been used in every campaign since the 80s.
Nothing has been done to make it better.

Blame the worker, they were too stupid to get an education.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

41. I agree

Progressives need to hold those "Democrats" who push this corporate meme accountable too.

[PaDem]

42. In general I like what Edwards is saying

I agree with the spirit of what Edwards is saying. But, I hope America is or can be about more than a guy working 50 hours a week so his kids and grandkids can have "a better life". We listen to these politicians and so often come away asking the wrong questions.

[illinoisprogressive]

45. Edwards has a passion and a calling in helping those who are struggling.