Please do not call Cindy Sheehan mentally ill.

[bling bling]

Some people may be using it as a way to try and explain her behavior in a nice way. And others are using it to attack her. But regardless, in either case it's used as a way to discredit her.

First of all, you have no idea whether or not she is mentally ill. From what I can observe, she does not seem to be impaired socially by any disorder, or occupationally, and I don't know her personally, and neither do you, so you can't say whether or not there is an impairment in her personal relationships.

Secondly, and this is no longer related to Sheehan directly: people who have mental disorders still have a right to have a political voice in this country. There is still as much, if not more, that can be learned about issues related to politics and many other topics from people who happen to have some type of mental disability.

I hate to see "mentally ill" being used as an argument to explain her behavior. I know some of you mean well. I don't want to make anyone feel defensive. It's just I wanted to take the opportunity to discuss this since it happened to come up in the other thread about Sheehan.

[jobycom]

1. Wow, is that where the discussion is going nowadays?

I've ignored the Cindy posts lately, not wanting to see the whole "She's a saint/she's a wacko" dichotomy. So now she's mentally ill?

Geeze, what's the point of this crap? I love the woman, I disagree with her on her recent attacks. Why does it have to be about her total worth as a human being? Can't people like someone they disagree with anymore?

Atticus Finch is dead, I guess.

[Captain Hilts]

4. Women are too often tagged as being "crazy." nt

[jobycom]

8. yes, that's a good point. That is the common attack on women who speak up, isn't it?

Men are evil, women are crazy.

[Dinger]

14. Another Name: Margie Schoedinger. Look It Up. (nt)

[firefox_fan]

52. Well said...

[renaissanceguy]

12. It's wrong to attack a political friend.

True, her simple message was hijacked by some groups. But her presence is important. She is a high-profile figure who is doing what we all should be doing - making sure our pary delivers on their promises. There's nothing wrong with that.


http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues/479862

[LittleClarkie]

15. My friends do not insult me

She has not acted as a friend.

[defendandprotect]

61. Excellent Point -- !!!

I read some of the comments like that and it made me very uncomfortable, but I didn't pay enough attention to it to make a point of it -- which is necessary.

Also -- stick to the debate -- you don't need to personally attack people to have your ideas succeed.

In fact, when I read something like that I quickly understand that the poster feels unable to make a suitable argument.

[three tears]

65. Thank you

I agree completely. I have also not been following the Cindy business, as there are bigger and less petty issues. It is one of the most horrible things about the particular political climate that instead of politely disagreeing and continuing to respect one another we now need to demonize anyone who deviates even slightly from our views. We are just as nasty as some of the people on the other side of the aisle we spend so much time criticizing. Three cheers for civility.

[shireen]

2. Cindy Sheehan is one of the most beautiful human beings I've ever seen. nt

[Captain Hilts]

3. Or President Bush. It's not fair to ignorantly speculate on such things. nt

[William769]

5. He is not mentally ill. Mentally challenged, well thats another story.

[snappyturtle]

6. Actually, I think * has given us some reason, good reason, to

question his mental status. Cindy is just expressing her viewpoint and her solution....at least we know where she's coming from.

[Poll_Blind]

7. But...but...DU must FEED! n/t

PB

[saltpoint]

9. I'll take Cindy Sheehan's citizenship over George W. Bush's

any day of the week.

She's fulfilled her obligations to citizenship while he's betrayed the Constitution.

No argument on that aspect of Sheehan's public life.

But were I still registered to vote in Nancy Pelosi's district in the 2008 primary, I would vote to return Speaker Pelosi to the new Congress over a possible primary challenge from Cindy Sheehan.

[bling bling]

19. Agreed, OC.

There's a place for voices like Sheehan's. I would even say that there's an important place.

But I would not participate in any attempt to vote Nancy Pelosi out of Congress. I have no idea what Sheehan even stands for beyond her views on the Iraq War and impeachment, to be honest.

[chieftain]

10. Everyone owes Ms. Sheehan an enormous debt of gratitude.

The unraveling of support for this immoral war started with her courageous effort to speak to the little prince. Her simple honesty and heart-felt grief was such a clear counter point to the callous disregard for human life exhibited by the Bush gang that the citizenry was forced to begin confronting the fallacies of the war party. Were I a voter in the district, I would definitely vote for Pelosi, but any criticism of Ms. Sheehan on any basis other than policy or tactics ought to be avoided like the plague.

[LittleClarkie]

13. Gee thanks Mrs. Sheehan for saying that I belong to the party of slavery

and that we started every war in the 20th Century. Thanks a whole lot.

There you go. I've thanked her.

[chieftain]

17. I was suggesting she be thanked for standing up to W not

for citing an historical but irrelevant fact about my Party.

[three tears]

66. Let he who is without sin

Yes she may have said some things that have not helped our cause and have made us feel uncomfortable. But she has also done a lot of good things. To open herself to the public when she was in so much pain and grief. That took guts.

We have all said and done things that we later regret, or that made our friends mad. But that doesn't make us bad, or even cause us to loose our ability to advocate a cause. So let he who is without sin cast the first stone. (and if you think you are without sin you should probably rethink things, no one is a saint).

Incidentally she is not totally historically wrong, Lincoln was a republican. Parties change, needless to say, but it behooves us to remember where we come from. If that makes us so uncomfortable we have a huge problem.

[Mz Pip]

11. I don't think she is mentally ill

I do think she has an overblown sense of her importance.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[closeupready]

16. Maybe, maybe not; but lots of people do, yet the media fails to pay attention.

Yet, with her, it's all over the place. why is that?

[KoKo]

29. I've not seen ANYONE call Cindy Mentally Ill ...so where's the link from a Psychiatrist who has

talked with her. Otherwise you are barking up the wrong tree spreading this crap here on this Forum!

[closeupready]

43. FYI, in the "Dems were the party of slavery" thread,

someone makes that claim. I have no way of knowing if its true, and I don't care either. I like what she's done, though I disagree with her stance on some things.

[Zodiak]

55. I have, Koko

I believe that the allusion was that she has "finally gone off the deep end". Seen it a couple of times. There are those that dwell here who throw rhetorical stink bombs as a default...we all know it.

[AZBlue]

18. I think everyone needs to stop looking at the "mentally ill" as the modern-day lepers.

Mentally ill can cover everything from mild depression to schizophrenia and beyond. So, to even imply that the use of the term "mentally ill" is derogatory only stigmatizes those affected by any type of mental illness. Who's next? Hemophiliacs? Diabetics? The gluten-intolerant?

[KittyWampus]

24. Indeed, my 2 brothers are seriously mentally ill. It's not a freaking insult to suggest someone

has mental, emotional, psychic problems they need help with.

[bling bling]

27. Yes it is.

I would be totally insulted if you disregarded my worldview and opinion on political matters by concluding that to hold such viewpoints and to act on them is "mentally ill."

It's insulting to me because I invest a lot of time and effort into forming my opinions and viewpoints and you totally render it invalid the minute you conclude that I wouldn't feel the same way and act the same way if I wasn't so "mentally ill."

If Cindy Sheehan were to demonstrate impairment in her cognitive abilities to function socially, personally, or occupationally, then I would have no problem with someone bringing mental illness into the discussion. It would be relevant.

The concept of mental illness itself is not insulting. I said that in my OP. But her opinions on the Democratic Party and her ambition to play an active role in something that she's passionate about does not warrant our suggesting she is mentally ill. To do so is to use the label as a method to explain away or discredit opinions that people disagree with.

Nobody gains from this type of labeling and mislabeling. Trust me, the stigma of mental illness isn't going to get better by de-sensitizing everyone to where being called "mentally ill" is an acceptable way to diagnose your political worldview. Anymore than it will ever be somehow acceptable for someone to disregard the topic and simply discredit something you get upset about as "oh, poor thing, must be that time of the month."

[KoKo]

30. Really? You are suggesting because your brothers have problems so does Sheehan?

:eyes: :crazy: :wtf:

[DemBones DemBones]

60. Hold up, that's not what the post said -- it said that

1) the poster had 2 brothers who have serious mental illness, and 2) that it was not an insult to suggest that someone needed help.

If people say it to discredit Cindy, that's an insult.

If people say it because they're genuinely concerned about Cindy, that's no insult.

The death of a child plus the end of a long-term marriage plus working hard for years against the war is a lot of strain on any human being. It would be perfectly understandable if Cindy needed some help. If she does, I hope she gets it.

There should be no stigma attached to mental illness.

[bling bling]

26. But it IS being used derogatorily.

When people stop using the term "mentally ill" derogatorily, then I'll quit implying that people are using it in a derogatory fashion.

However, in 99% of the circumstances where Cindy was called "mentally ill" by someone, the argument was being made to disagree with her political position. It was used to discredit her opinion.

Kind of like someone discrediting a woman for being angry about something as "it must be that time of the month."

I don't think "that time of the month" is derogatory. I don't think mental illness is derogatory. Didn't you read my post? I was the first one to point that out. But using that type of labeling as a debating tool in order to discredit (or explain away) someone's opinion when you disagree with it is a problem.

[bling bling]

20. The more I think about it, the more I'm wondering if I missed something.

I never really got a sense from her that she cared one way or another for the Democratic Party itself or the Republican Party for that matter. To me, it's so obvious that it's the war issue and the war issue alone that she cares about that it's not at all surprising that she would attack either one of the party's for not doing more. It doesn't really insult me in any way at all.

I can see how it would insult other people in the Dem party though. But even so I still don't understand why that would make people question her mental health.

What she's simply done is, IMO, capitalize on the opportunities that exist for Americans to try and have a voice in our policies. She speaks to groups, she gets media attention, she's possibly running for office, she stages boycotts. It's EXACTLY what mentally healthy people OUGHT to do if they feel passionately about something.

What am I missing?

[LittleClarkie]

21. She didn't attack us for not doing more

she called us the party of slavery and incorrectly suggested that we'd started every war in the last century.

If she attacked us for not doing more, that would be more acceptable. As it was, she just showed she needs to crack open a history book at the least.

[bling bling]

22. I'm only talking about labeling her "mentally ill."

I can fully understand why people would have a problem with what she said. I'm pretty neutral when it comes to Sheehan. More than anything I just find observing her actions and everyone else's reactions pretty interesting.

But the "mental illness" comments were what I'm not understanding, and what I had a problem with.

[KoKo]

31. Is that right? You spent time with her in that DITCH in Texas when she was FIRST

to CONFRONT BUSH? Where did you get your Ph.D or training in Psychology? Or, are you just an "armchair warrior" a wannabee troll who just loves to trash people covering up your own failures? hmmmmm? :eyes:

[AZBlue]

45. I think some people who maybe aren't familiar with mental illness are using the term incorrectly.

They see her threatening to run against Pelosi in 2008 if she won't impeach Bush - implying that she, Cindy Sheehan, will impeach him, despite the fact that he would be out of office by then, so the point's pretty ridiculous. And, her recent post regarding Dems and wars is so factually incorrect it's frightening.

I think she may indeed be stressed or just burnt out. Look at her life the past few years - she lost her son in a horrible way and then embarked on an international crusade with barely any time for herself. I'd be tired too!!

[Alexander]

23. Never called her that, although she is running against an ANTI-war Speaker.

So I'm definitely never going to support Sheehan.

[robcon]

25. She's not mentally ill. She's stupid.

The idea that her attention-getting act would wear out is not a surprise. She's a fairly unintelligent person, IMO.

[KoKo]

32. You personally know Cindy? You've met her at rallies? I've met her

and I didn't see her in any way that you are describing....You might want to check out your own ((((woo woo))) views of things. :shrug:

[michael.098762001]

33. Cindy's Right-Wing Views

Sheehan was dating Lew Rockwell, a "paleo-conservative, " free-market capitalist ideologue. From his derives her views on the need to abolish the Federal Reserve Bank and the Income Tax. And the Democrats being the Party of Slavery. And her view that Democrats started all the wars in the last century. (Though the radical New Left of the 60's said the same.)

They met at this conference,
http://www.lifelikepundits.com/archives/001536.php
Sheehan will be a featured speaker at Gold, Freedom and War, a conference in November to benefit LewRockwell.com. Here are some of the topics on tap:

* The warmongering schemes for perpetual war for perpetual statism.
* The Camp Casey revolution and the tipping point for peace.
* Has the regime been fatally wounded?
* The real reasons the neocons hate LRC.
* How hurricanes and the "War on Terror" embolden the US police state.
http://www.secondbreakfast.net/archives/003067.html
Backstory: It seems that "libertarian" nutjob Lew Rockwell has been posting over at HuffPo. How did this start? Probably, according to Melanie Morgan at KSFO, through Cindy Sheehan. Now, in theory, the politics of Rockwell and Sheehan are polar opposites (it sounds like many of the usual gang of Huffers are not at all happy about Rockwell posting there) but we must remember Blair's Law. And, of course, it's said that opposites attract.

So anyway, Ms. Morgan has a book coming out in a few months. She also has another scoop about Mama Sheehan, which she mentioned on the show this morning with a little fun at Drudge's expense. She also emailed me the story, written in the Drudge style. Against my better judgment, I've broken down and put it below the fold.

May Seymour have mercy on whatever soul I have left.

From Melanie:

MOTHER SHEEHAN'S MARRIED LOVER

Activist breaks camp in Crawford to do 'damage control'

Cindy Sheehan packed her bags and left Crawford ,Texas, Tuesday afternoon and arrived home in Berkeley, Ca. late Tuesday evening. Sheehan rushed back to do damage control after explosive information became public today about an alleged affair that began while she was still married to her husband Patrick, and after her son Casey Sheehan died in Sadr City, Iraq attempting to rescue members of his trapped squad.

Sources are telling authors Melanie Morgan and Catherine Moy, (American Mourning, Cumberland Press) that Sheehan is furious that the news of her affair has gone public. Sources have identified the boyfriend as former right-winger Lew Rockwell of the Ludwig Von Mises think tank located in Alabama, who is himself married.

Sheehan was in Texas for over a week to confront President Bush about the war in Iraq, demanding a second meeting with the man she calls a 'murderous bastard.'

Sources say that Sheehan met Lew Rockwell in an Internet chatroom, and exchanged 600 text mail messages before her husband learned of the affair through phone records.

Rockwell, who has a blog at HuffingtonPost.com and his own website www.lewrockwell.com has not responded to inquiries for comment.

[mzmolly]

57. Hmmmmmmm.

Though you have been banned as the source you used is questionable - this info is interesting.

[conscious evolution]

35. She has not worn out her welcome with me.

The only stupid people around here are the ones who attack her.

[KoKo]

28. Calling a Hero to the Anti Iraq Invasion folks "Mentally Ill" is an affront to all of us!

Go Cheney yourself.

[bling bling]

37. I hadn't even thought of it from that angle, and you're absolutely right.

It further discredits and shows disregard for the beliefs and actions of everyone who supports Sheehan. Thank you for pointing that out.

[KoKo]

41. You mean from the angle of folks who knew info about Iraq/Mushroom Cloud, Niger Yellow Cake

and the rest? You are saying you believed that...and think they are "over the border" stored in Jordan or Syria. :shrug:

[bling bling]

50. Alright KoKo. I've had about enough of you biting my head off.

Telling me to fuck myself is about as mind-blowing a response as I could possibly have expected from a Sheehan supporter.

Tell you what, since you're so concerned about the "affront" towards you, I'm going to go ahead and point you away from my thread that deals with a subject that is serious to me and point you toward one of the other threads that inspired this one.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1291664#top

BTW, as of 9:15 "mental illness" was winning. Now THAT is sick.

[assclown_bush]

34. Thank you for your post, bling bling. I agree with you.

Ad hominem attacks against Ms Sheehan are being bandied left and right on DU, and while I do not agree with some of the things Ms. Sheehan has said/written I don't feel it is fair to judge her unstable or call her an "attention Wh*re" or all other obscene remarks that have been posted on this site. We should all try to keep the level of discourse on DU, as one befitting educated and civilized adults.

kick and recommend.

[robcon]

36. She a dope because of her dopey pronouncements.

You don't have to agree with me, but the attacks against her are not, IMO, ad hominem unless they are addressed to another DUer, and calling that poster names.

Attacks on public figures, like McCain, Cheney, Omaba, Edwards, Clinton and Sheehan, are merely attacking public figures.

[assclown_bush]

38. Thank you for providing us with a perfect written example, robcon.

I rest my case.

[KoKo]

44. Robcon....I wish your DU "Profile" was enabled....is there a reason for that?

:shrug:

[robcon]

58. I wish you wouldn't care so much about my "profile."

But shit happens.

[Alexander]

67. I wish your gender was declared...is there a reason for that?

Let's descend into irrelevancies while we're at it.

[bling bling]

39. That would be nice. You made me feel wistful

the level of discourse "as one befitting educated and civilized adults."

I don't mind emotionally-driven discussions. I can be emotional too. But when a line is clearly crossed I just wish more people would try to raise the bar instead of defending and/or excusing the low standards.

[KoKo]

40. Assume, Bling Bling...that you supported Iraq Invasion?

:shrug:

[KoKo]

42. Oh...btw...you are putting "meme" out there that Sheehan and Anti Iraq Invasion folks had "low

standards?"

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sparkly]

47. Not only bizarre and offensive, but you're spamming it.

:eyes:

[bling bling]

48. You're really on a roll here. And it's fascinatingly ironic to observe.

Shooting from the hip without any regard to a target, evidently.

But I think I've had enough of your taking everything I say and turning it into something it's not. I thought your "cheney yourself" (i.e. fuck yourself) comment was directed at the people who are calling Sheehan mentally ill but now I realize it was directed at me.

Just for the record, the low standards had to do with people who feel it's alright to call others they disagree with mentally ill. Where you got that it was a meme against you and Cindy is totally beyond me.

Thanks for your interesting contribution, confusing as it's been to watch.

[demgirlamerica]

49. sad commentary

ms sheehan is a sincere woman. i dont agree with her, but i admire her sincerity

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bling bling]

56. You're on. What do you want to bet? It better be worth my time.

Because otherwise I'm seriously about done dealing with jerks like you and KoKo storming in here and calling me obnoxious names over the opportunity I took to discuss how it's wrong to label people as mentally ill.

These kinds of shit stained posts have made me embarrassed of my own thread. This is a conversation about mental illness and people are rabidly hurling insults at me for no fucking good reason. It's ridiculous.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

59. LOL. Anyway, where is the post/thread calling Cindy Sheehan mentally ill? A link in the OP might

have explained why you felt you must defend her against a charge that doesn't seem to have been leveled.

MKJ

[bling bling]

63. Well, it wasn't really about defending her, per se.

It was that the opportunity arose to have a discussion about the issue at large, and I was using her as the example to illustrate my points about mental illness and labels and using them to discredit people.

Anyway, here's one thread. See the third one down on the poll. Up until a little while ago "mental illness" was actually in the lead.

There's other threads peppered with posts that refer to her mental illness but you're just going to have to take my word for it or go on with yourself thinking I'm a bullshit artist. You're earlier insult towards my motivations means I'm not spending several minutes of my personal time to cite individual posts in order prove myself to your skeptical ass. Screw you if this link isn't good enough:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1291664#top

[smiley_glad_hands]

53. I dont think she has a mental illness.

Just flakey.

[illinoisprogressive]

54. I don't think she is but, I do get tired of some of her more outrageous stuff like this.

[defendandprotect]

62. Respond to the "stuff" and stay away from name-calling --

[BikeWriter]

64. I wouldn't care if she's crazy if...

she is on our side. If she uses the popularity we helped give her for her own agenda or against us...