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If Nancy supports impeachment will Cindy shut up and retire?

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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 03:51 PM
Original message
If Nancy supports impeachment will Cindy shut up and retire?
Or will she continue to make herself look silly?
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. silly is in the eye of the beholder.
Sometimes name calling tells more about the name caller than the subject.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I didn't call Cindy "silly" but said her "current' actions appear "silly". There
is a difference..If Nancy gets impeachment rolling , Cindy's running against her would be "silly" and Cindy did say she was "retiring" from the spotlight and has NOT done so.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. "will she continue to make herself look silly?" silly is in the eye of the beholder.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I guess it is an opinion but running against someone because
they didn't support impeachment when they decide to support impeachment would be "silly" it seems to me!
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Are you saying Pelosi didn't support impeachement, but now does?
and Sheehan is wrong to say she'll run against her if she doesn't?
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. That was the hypothetical I posited in the OP,yes.
The recent actions by Pelosi's office indicate this is a possibility.My question then , is will Cindy continue with, what I believe is a nonsensical run for Congress?
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. IF pelosi asks for impeachement, then will sheehan not run?
Seems she has said that is why she MAY run, so I guess we'll have to wait and see, or else get hold of her and ask her.
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LaPera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Doesn't matter you don't have a say...but I do.
Edited on Wed Jul-11-07 04:24 PM by LaPera
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. What?
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LaPera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Pelosi will NEVER be voted out of office from liberal SF You have NO fucking say.
Get fucking real! Pelosi will NEVER be voted out of office from our liberal San Francisco district...scream all the fuck you want from Georgia, or New York from the rest of California to Alaska...you have no fucking say and you NEVER will!

ONLY WE DO HERE IN SAN FRANCISCO!!

In February, only a month after becoming speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi settled weeks of threats from Rep. John D. Dingell, her blustery Energy and Commerce Committee chairman, by putting in writing her assent to one of his big demands -- Pelosi's new Select Committee on Energy Independence and Global Warming would not infringe on his power to write legislation as he saw fit.

Four months later, Dingell (D-Mich.) appeared in the speaker's conference room to walk through a bill that would override California's attempts to combat global warming by raising fuel efficiency standards, strip the Environmental Protection Agency of its authority to regulate greenhouse gases and promote a controversial effort to turn coal into liquid fuel.

This time, Pelosi was in no mood to mollify Dingell. The bill he was sponsoring, she said, was unacceptable. The environmental costs would be too severe, the political costs for the Democratic caucus too high, she said.

The two episodes with Dingell illustrate Pelosi's evolution from a somewhat tentative political figure reliant on a small circle of advisers to the undisputed leader of the House's fractious Democratic majority.

"Nancy now represents the majority of this caucus, overwhelmingly," said Barney Frank (Mass.), chairman of the House Financial Services Committee.

But if Pelosi has succeeded in uniting her party during her initial months as speaker, she and the rest of the leadership have yet to convince the nation that the Democrats can govern.

Pelosi, of California, has succeeded in getting all of her opening agenda through the House. But few of the initiatives have made it to the president, and only one has become law: an increase in the minimum wage.

The obstacle has been the Senate, where Democrats hold only a one-seat advantage. But that failure has colored all of Congress, including Pelosi and the House Democratic leadership.

The new Democratic Congress took office in January with a 43 percent approval rating. Since then, its rating has sunk to about the same low levels as President Bush's, a bit below 30 percent. And Pelosi's own approval ratings have slipped, from 48 percent in a March poll by the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press to 36 percent last month in a Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg poll. Over the same time frame, her disapproval ratings climbed from 22 percent to 39 percent.

As the first speaker since Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.) to have to manage a new majority after a switch in party rule, Pelosi came in with an ambitious 100-hour agenda and some challenges that would quickly strain the Democratic caucus: finishing all of the government's domestic budget plans left undone by the Republicans, enacting an ethics program unpopular with many lawmakers and, most important, funding a war most Democrats oppose.

Pelosi faced an inherent conflict -- unite a Democratic majority or fulfill her promises to run a more transparent and bipartisan House. In her first six months, she has chosen the former, not without a price.

Combative Republicans repeatedly tried to use her initial openness against her. They tried to force a vote to end the District's gun ban as a price for giving the city a vote in the House and attempted to make Democrats vote on a GOP resolution declaring that the House would always fund the troops in Iraq, at a time when many liberals wanted to end funding. In both instances, Pelosi pulled the proposals before they were voted on, violating her pledges of bipartisanship but keeping Democratic unity intact.

Now Democratic leaders worry that they must get some of the domestic agenda passed soon, to show voters they can govern, even as they are still dogged by a creative Republican resistance that has bedeviled Pelosi and her party.

* * *

After the 2006 elections swept the Republicans from power, Pelosi stood as a historic figure, the highest-ranking elected woman in the nation's history. But she had no obvious models on which to build her speakership.

The last time a Democrat took the gavel from a Republican speaker was 1955, when Sam Rayburn (Tex.) resumed a speakership he had relinquished only two years before. The most recent Democratic speakers -- Thomas P. "Tip" O'Neill (Mass.), Jim Wright (Tex.) and Thomas S. Foley (Wash.) -- reigned over a Democratic caucus that had grown complacent after decades in power. Those speakers passively allowed their powerful committee chairmen to set the legislative agenda.

Pelosi's situation made her most like Gingrich, another politically minded insurgent who assumed control after years in the minority. Like Gingrich, she rose not through the committee structure but by playing in the rougher world of politics.

Pelosi wanted to maintain the Republicans' much more centralized power structure but recognized that old bulls such as Dingell, David R. Obey (D-Wis.) and John Conyers Jr. (D-Mich.), who had served as committee chairmen before the GOP swept to power, would have to be respected.

"There is a necessity for a unity of voice and purpose in the Democratic Party . . . and the only way you're going to do that was to have a central management to create consensus, not simply individual, discrete committee agendas," said House Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer (Md.).

But as the face of that central power, Pelosi, who declined an interview request for this article, lacked Gingrich's flair for public appearances and off-the-cuff prognostication. Her sex made her extraordinary, but it was also something of a liability, leading her to be constantly underestimated, said Steve Elmendorf, who was chief of staff to Richard A. Gephardt (Mo.) when he was House minority leader.

"We would have these private meetings when she was leader where she was decisive, focused, even dismissive of people at times," Frank said. "I'd say to her, I'd beg her, 'Please, Nancy, be this person in public.' "

But to some Democrats, her biggest liability was the tight circle of confidants -- tough-minded fellow Bay Area liberals such as Reps. George Miller, Anna G. Eshoo and Zoe Lofgren; tart-tongued Reps. Edward J. Markey (Mass.) and Rosa DeLauro (Conn.); and gruff Rep. John P. Murtha (Pa.) -- that allies worried would insulate her from public opinion and the rest of the caucus.

Even before she received the gavel, those fears appeared to be confirmed when she disastrously backed Murtha's challenge to Hoyer for majority leader. She saw the Iraq war as the defining issue of the time and extolled Murtha as the man to end it, but he was trounced.

"That was a defining moment for her," said Rep. C.A. "Dutch" Ruppersberger (D-Md.), whose political roots are entangled with Pelosi's in Baltimore, where she grew up. "It made her stronger, because she understood then that she really had to widen her circle."

* * *

Once she assumed the speakership, Pelosi took on a frenetic schedule. She met with Democratic leaders formally three times a week but often informally two to three times daily, and held sessions with chairmen, freshmen and other lawmakers.

There is a downside to the pace. She tends to micromanage, frustrating staff members with her unwillingness to delegate tasks, and she jealously guards her schedule.

Still, an instinct for compromise and consultation got Pelosi through a series of initial tests that could have blown up publicly but instead passed quietly. After Murtha's defeat in November, his close ally Rep. James P. Moran Jr. (D-Va.) said lawmakers who had promised their votes to Murtha but delivered them to Hoyer were not to be trusted and should be unmasked. Brendan Daly, Pelosi's communications director, got wind that Moran would be on PBS's "NewsHour" and quickly called Moran's staff to command that he not go on the show and that he stop the threats.

Just weeks later, Pelosi pushed aside Jane Harman (Calif.), the highest-ranking Democrat on the intelligence committee, then skipped over Alcee L. Hastings (Fla.), an African American and an impeached federal judge who was next in line, to name Sylvestre Reyes (Tex.) as chairman of the powerful Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. The move was expected to cause an uproar, not only with the Congressional Black Caucus but also with the "Blue Dog" Democrats -- conservative and moderate lawmakers who backed Harman. It did not, however, because she has provided other key assignments to assuage those left out.

The next challenge came as House Democratic leaders tried to force a turn in the Iraq war through a spending bill, only to have Pelosi sideswiped by the man she had entrusted to end the war -- Murtha.

Senior Democrats had been huddling with different factions of the caucus, trying to reach a strong consensus before going public with a bill. Without telling Pelosi, Murtha laid out the bill's strategy on a liberal Web site, MoveCongress.org. The legislation called for such stringent readiness standards for deploying combat forces that the president's planned troop increase would be strangled by red tape.

Pelosi learned of Murtha's remarks from reporters. At that point, authority over the war-funding bill very publicly shifted to the House Appropriations Committee and Obey, its chairman, who was conspicuously not a member of her inner circle.

"Murtha said, 'I had my plans.' He couldn't get them done, so Obey took over," said a senior House Democratic leadership aide, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not cleared to discuss internal deliberations.

By the time Pelosi met with the chairmen last month to finalize the House's energy bill, her grasp on the levers of power was nearly complete. It was at this meeting that she shut down Dingell's proposals as harmful to the environment, and thus to her caucus. According to participants, she virtually manhandled Dingell, the House's longest-serving member and, at age 81, still an imposing figure.

Dingell grew angry, but he directed his rage not at Pelosi but at Caucus Chairman Rahm Emanuel (Ill.), who had tried to cool him down. If Emanuel wanted to get involved in energy policy, he should try to get on the committee, Dingell snapped.

Emanuel was happy to take the heat.

"I was never part of and still am not part of that Miller/Eshoo/Lofgren/Murtha circle," Emanuel said, "and I would consider myself a true Pelosi loyalist."

To be sure, the inner circle remains powerful, particularly Miller. His longtime chief of staff, John Lawrence, is now Pelosi's chief of staff. Another veteran Miller aide, Dan Beard, is the House's new chief administrative officer, responsible for everything from broken BlackBerrys to the Capitol's decrepit power plant.

But even Pelosi's closest confidants say their influence has been diluted by the demands of the speakership. Eshoo grew wistful as she spoke recently of her "pal" Pelosi.

"I went to a conference during Memorial Day," she recalled. "And I told George Miller, 'You know, I miss Nancy.' "
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. why the numerous fucks and vitriol?
Edited on Wed Jul-11-07 04:32 PM by uppityperson
Especially to a conversation between me and saracat where I am asking for clarification of what she/he's saying? "scream all the fuck you want from Georgia, or New York from the rest of California to Alaska...you have no fucking say and you NEVER will!"

Wow. Just wow.
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LaPera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. Free forum? And because it seems you don't have a clue!
People like myself were marching in the streets in protest BEFORE Bush's illegal invasion and we weren't searching for television camera's as some we know...and most of us who did, got shit for it, and most of us didn't have any kids in the war, but still we shouted & marched anyway, we wrote letters and made calls, sent money and gave our time to anti-war groups, and stood up for what was right as we still are today, with no accolades, we just want results, send ALL the kids home, NOW!
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. You don't make sense and seem to want to fight. Not sure why you take issue with me.
Edited on Wed Jul-11-07 05:01 PM by uppityperson
Best of luck with all that. I have no interest in fighting or trading insults. Back to work figuring out what I can do to help end the occupation and preserve legal access to abortions and return our civil rights.

Edited to add this link to a good reply to your same rant on another similar topic:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3368329&mesg_id=3368681
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movonne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. I agree....she is a mother who lost her son and she is fighting
any way she can...what the hell is wrong with people on here.. are they trolls...just asking...
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cgrindley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. wow it's really classy how people have
turned on her. really classy.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. But you think she is "classy" with how she has turned on the Democratic Party?
Cindy gets to say whatever she wants , no matter if it is untrue and that is both "classy " and fair? Give me a break.
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cgrindley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-12-07 06:52 AM
Response to Reply #4
34. see? very classy
so you support the war?
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asthmaticeog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. It was really classy when Sheehan called Hurricane Rita "a little wind and rain"...
...and bitched that coverage of it was distracting people from the war. That should have been the absolute end of all goodwill towards her. People who died in that disaster were just as important to their families as her son was to her. She repeatedly makes it plain that it's all about her. Turning on her is the response of a reasonable person.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. I guess you missed her being in NO after Katrina. I know it wasn't Rita, but still.
She came and observed and helped. Guess you must have missed that.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. yeah , after the papers and the bloggersphere went after her for her dismissive
comments on KOS and BTW, they were time stamped so Cindy "knew' the critical situation.She just thought the "war" should get equal coverage, meaning her arrest.
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cgrindley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-12-07 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #21
35. 7 people died of the direct results of Hurricane Rita
120 people or so in total died of indirect causes and the storm cost about 11 billion dollars. She was right. That doesn't even come close to comparing to the war.
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GreenTea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. What was she doing there, more spotlight? There are over 3,600 mothers most QUIETLY practicing
the ideals of pacifism.

And with as much caring, Cindy Sheehan unlike many mothers who lost their sons and daughters in Iraq, chose the spotlight and those same mothers say feel exactly as Sheehen does, and want answers and a stop to this occupation...However, they did not find or seek the spotlight as Sheehan found necessary to do...And these same mothers losses are no less painful...There are many brave, courageous mothers protesting & fighting against this war in so many ways, and Sheehan is one...Just as there are many fathers who love just as much and no less than the mothers while trying to stop this occupation for profits by these corporations and this lap dog administration.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. As I wrote, observing and helping. Spotlight follows her no matter where she goes, what she does.
1 of the problems of being a media figure is that the media follows you around, making it difficult to do anything without being in the spotlight and people claiming this is why you do something. Sometimes a public figure does things just because they do them, and not for the media. Sometimes the other way around. Sometimes a combo. It seems a bit of a Catch-22 for Cindy. No matter what she does, the media will follow along. So no matter what she does, she is suspect.

As far as mothers and fathers who lost their sons and daughters in Iraq, I met a whole bunch of them who are also speaking out and being in the media. There are many ways to fight the occupation of Iraq, and we need many people doing many different things. I support people doing things to end the occupation of Iraq. Period.
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GreenTea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
6. And she looks awfully fucking silly to me!
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LeftNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
13. I dont understand the vehemance towards Ms. Sheehan on this board?nt
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
19. Maybe Cindy's action WILL
help Nancy support Pelosi. I admire Cindy's brave stance and her tactics in threatening to run for Nancy's House Seat.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
20. Nancy supports ending the war, and I thought that was her original issue
so far that's not working. So I doubt that would be enough either.

I'm still wondering why Cindy jumped from the one issue to the other. Like someone said, bait and switch.
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Nancy and the Dems could end the war... but they just voted $100 billion more to bush to
continue it.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Here:
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PBass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
27. Why the hatred? Why indulge it? "Shut Up", "Retire", "Silly" This thread sucks. (NT)
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Why do you hate the president. Why are you a hater?
Same sort of debate ender that Republicans will use when we criticize the prez.
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PBass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-12-07 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #28
41. "Debate ender"? This was a "debate"? Give me a freakin' break, this was no dialogue
it was a two sentence slam that was only intended to belittle Cindy Sheehan, while pretending to ask a question.

Here, let me give it a whirl:

Does "your favorite candidate" totally suck ass, or is he just a pathetic loser?

Come on, lets "debate" that. Hey, where ya going? I'm trying to start a dialogue!

Go ahead and criticize Cindy Sheehan but don't be sly about it and pose it as a phony "question". Just come right out and say you've made up your mind that you hate Cindy Sheehan, so people like me can ignore the thread as a waste of time, and look for a real discussion, instead.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. Cindy herself said she was stepping out of the spotlight and going "home to her children
and to rresume her life".That is retirement.That is the word used by all the stories about her "retirement".I don't hate her but find her an embarassment and a flip flopper.And she is "sily".She has no more business in Congress than I do singing at the Met.
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LostInAnomie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
30. After her oafish bullshit rant against the Democratic Party I couldn't give a shit what she does...
... as long as I don't have to hear about it, and it doesn't allow her to marginalize the anti-war movement any more.

It would also be nice to never have to hear from the Cindy zealots again.
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
31. This is so low on the things
that I give a shit about right now. There is a ton of things that need to be done today. Cindy's running for office is last on my list of concerns.
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-11-07 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
32. If Nancy stops acting silly, maybe Cindy will leave her alone.
If Nancy doesn't, I hope Cindy slaps her silly.
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noonwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-12-07 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
36. One of the symptoms of mental illness is not knowing when to give it up
She's delusional and needs help, not enablers.
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NaturalHigh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-12-07 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
37. She'll find something else to bitch about.
Cindy Sheehan is going to become the Lyndon LaRouche of this generation, anxious to get her name in the papers every time she realizes that she has become irrelevant on the stage of national politics. "Look at me!" should be her campaign slogan.
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bluedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-12-07 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. you noticed that too?
its hard to get out of the spotlight and return home to your family.......
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chaska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-12-07 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
39. Some people just don't like uppity women....
Am I mistaken, I thought those kinds of people were Republicans?



Cindy, you rock.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-12-07 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Uppity women like Boxer , Clinton and Pelosi? Those women are constructive.
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