GOP: Kerrygate + Sanctity of Marriage = X-tian Culture War (continued)

[rucky]

The Kerrygate LIE is part-one of a two-pronged GOP strategy.

They're softening him up for the debate they REALLY want to have in the General Election: The sanctity of marriage. We'll hear something like this soon: "Democrats don't respect the sanctity of marriage - in their own lives & in their opposition to an Amendment to defend marriage between a man & a woman."

Anybody else see the connection? If so, let's look at this for what it is, and ask ourselves now: How do we head it off? Ignore it & stay focused on real issues? Tried that. They accuse us of dodging. Agree? They win & call us hypocrites. Disagree? They demonize us as being anti-marriage blah blah blah.

Are these our only choices? Are we going to waste our abbreviated time in the General Election debating these non-issues s'more? They'd LOVE it!

Or should we confront the RW religious agenda by bringing our own religious leaders into the debate. Who? No idea. But if this campaign turns into another culture war, we'd be wise to play with the same set of chess pieces on our side of the board. Any suggestions? Any clue why there IS no outspoken religious Left to defend us? I know they're out there. Is it that they're not speaking up, or we're not taking them in? Would this be too much of a turn-off to our base support?

But even the athiests should consider this: If we had religious leaders saying "get the government out of the business of religion & let the church handle those matters", wouldn't that be a good stance to take. I don't see how we can say that, without having churches come forward to back it up. Wouldn't many churches want this?

If we want religion out of politics, we have to bring them into our side of the debate? :shrug:

[Brian_Expat]

1. I'd believe this was the strategy. . .

IF Kerry actually fought the Republicans on their anti-gay jihad. Instead, he's adopting their language about "sanctity of marriage," leaving himself open to being savaged if the allegations turn out to be true.

[funky_bug]

2. Does this rebuttal make sense?

"Now I know why you can't find Osama. You're so worried about what goes on in my pants, that you can't find where Osama hangs his at night."

Or "My bedroom becomes a national priority over Osama's house?"

Or maybe, "I'll show you mine, when you show me Osama's."

Just some thoughts, born out of the ludicracy of this issue.

[rucky]

3. LOL - "I'll show you mine..."

Trouble is. this issue will stay with us long after Osama is found in October, and this intern crap is exposed for what it really is (crap).

I'm saying let's put this crap to bed once & for all. If you look at the core of everything they fire at us, church/state seems to be the only leg that the GOP has left to stand on.

[funky_bug]

6. Like Kerry said...

Bush is attacking Kerry's record because he can't defend his own.

[saltpoint]

4. Right-wing fundamentalist Christians who --

-- vote for the Bush Administration's agenda -- OK for Rumsfeld to bomb Iraq to smithereens; OK for Dubya to appoint fascists to the federal judiciary; OK to inject prayer in school and OK to boot evolution out of school; OK to alienate our international allies; OK to pollute the hell out of everywhere near a Bush campaign contributor's industry; OK to forbid stem cell research; OK to choke working and lower class of health care benefits; OK to pander to anti-abortion hysteria; OK to demonize same-sex relationships; OK to allow Ashcroft to loosen the bolts on basic freedoms; OK to look the other way while Roy Moore dumps Ten Commandments icons into courthouses; and on and on and on and on --

--demonstrates that we ain't gonna get their vote anyway. They are aware of that agenda and they actively, zealously, slobberingly support it.

Schwartzenegger was elected Governor of California in spite of allegations that he groped women on movie sets. I think Kerry is more substantive than Schwartzenegger. This "affair" will go away when it's shown to have no legs.

And I think Bush is going to get his little fanny whupped in November.

Your post here was one of the best I've seen on DU.

[rucky]

9. thanks, Ghost!

Bush WILL get his fanny whupped. I don't want their vote. I want these gnats to go away & worship as they wish in private.

[Bertha Venation]

5. There are "religious left" leaders but trying to bring them in? Worthless.

Two of them are Bishop John Shelby Spong and Mel White.

Trouble is, the religious right rejects these men, and all "religious left" leaders, as apostate. There is only one true Christianity, and because these men preach against the inerrancy of the Bible and for the inclusion of gays in Christian worship, they're automatically excluded.

This is why it would be totally worthless to try to enter the debate with our own form of religious reasoning. We are already utterly dismissed out of hand as backslidden at best, anti-christ at worst.

[rucky]

8. That's a nice racket they've got.

If we stand by these leaders, we may not win over any fundies, but we'd show a majority of Christian voters that they have more options than they may think.

I'm a prime example. I'm not a Christian, but my my wife is & she's been trying to get me to church for years. If I knew the church would be progressive, I'd go, but I'm not savvy enough pick out the progressive churches.

[Bertha Venation]

10. What church does your wife attend?

For progressive churches, seek out Episcopalians. Other denoms are progressive, too, I'm sure, but that's our church. Also Unitarian Universalists. I'm not sure they're properly categorized "Christian," but they're certainly more identifiable as Christian, IMO, than many fundies.

[rucky]

13. None yet.

We're kinda new in town & none of our friends attend church. My wife is a recovering fundie, believe it or not, & uniterianism is a little "out there" for her. Thanks for the info on Episcopalians.

[Bertha Venation]

14. I'm a recovering fundy, too.

:hi: to Mrs. Rucky!

Google on John Shelby Spong (he's an Episcopalian bishop); chances are you'll find some links that will lead you to a progressive Episcopal (or other progressive) church in your area.

[KC21304]

7. Somehow I don't think that will be the way it is handled.

Are they going to say Democrats have more ex-wives than Republicans ? Our leadership has had less affairs than your leadership ? It all comes down to hypocracy and the Dems win that agrument going away and I don't think the Gop will go there.

[gottaB]

11. info

Some info here

• Interfaith Working Group
  
  
• lambda legal
  
  
• Religious Coalition for the Freedom to Marry
  
  
• Soulforce
  
  
• ngltf
  
  
• Freedom to Marry
  
  
• hrc
  
  

Oh, and for those few poor souls who are completely confused about where they stand:

lcr

[gottaB]

12. p.s.

I agree with you intuition, btw. Freedom to Marry has a nice page offering advice to candidates. (Obviously Kucinich doesn't need that advice, or he's already absorbed it.) We should all be prepared to make these arguments because it will be an issue in the general election.

[rucky]

15. I've been surfing these links for about an hour now...

Wow. Apparently our Religious Left is fighting hard - right under our noses. This is bigger than I thought: a real MOVEMENT, not just limited to the gay community & single-issue advocacy. I hope the party gets the memo.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

16. Pretty good theory...but, are we doing Rove's work for him? n/t

JB