Assumption: Bush survives to end of term. Dems take Congress and White House in 08 ....... now what?

[Stinky The Clown]

So the Republicans are repudiated and kicked out in 08.

Gin Blossom George and his gang of thugs survived to the end of his term. No one other than Libby was convicted of anything. No impeachment. No Contempt of Congress. Nada.

Now there's a Dem in the White House supported by much stronger, but not yet foolproof, majorities in both houses.

We all agree, I'm sure, that every crime committed by the Republicans should be investigated. Or do we?

What do YOU think?

Should we investigate and criminally charge, if appropriate, after they've left office?

[flvegan]

1. First, out of Iraq.

Next, start the wheels rolling on the initiatives we really need (health care, minimum wage, etc).

THEN, on to dessert and charging these criminals.

Reminds me of a joke about a young bull and his dad standing on a hill surveying a field of cows...

[nolabels]

32. I am quite sure there are more than enough people to carry out all those........

tasks and many more simultaneously without even multitasking.

Personally i feel as long as those trials are held for all that rampant criminality many of those other problems could probably be solved much more easily.
(Yea, here at DU it's sometimes okay to wish and dream about things that never will come true :shrug:)


Btw, experience has also taught me to never let the establishment lull you into thinking that things will go like they are supposed to either

[Blue_In_AK]

2. Absolutely

Investigate, indict, convict. These guys (and not just ** and Darth) have gotten away with far too much for far too long -- most of my long life, actually. I want to see several somebodies pay.

[babylonsister]

3. I honestly can't get past the thought that they will last another

18 months, so I can't play.

Well, honest-to-goodness crooks, caught in the act, should always pay. Can a prez pardon himself and his VP before the fact?

[stellanoir]

12. I can't wait either and want to just declare with everyone else. . .GAME OVER !!!

The gross illegalities, the damage to our country and our Constitution, the blatant criminality, the total lack of transparancy and accountability, the multitudinous obfuscations. . .it's all been too much, and simply can not continue.

I fantasize about ultimately prooving that the elections in '00 and '04 were illegal, of abolishing all legislation and appointments that have transpired since then.

This is unsustainable, truly.

I wish upon wish that we have a groundswell of public sentiment, demanding multiple immediete resignations. That is what I'm praying for.

With tonight's Moyer's show, it was palpable that it could indeed happen.

Love your intrepid spirit. Keep it up.

[Double T]

4. Investigate, arrest, indict, convict, sentence, imprison for life.

No immunity, no pardons, no parole, no good behavior. Spend the following decade putting our former nation and democracy back together.

[BreweryYardRat]

11. Sounds good.

Although the vengeful bastard in me would prefer replacing "imprison for life" with "sentence to death and expedite the sentence."

[calimary]

15. Sounds VERY good.

I think if IMPEACHMENT does not occur for at least one of those bastards by the time the conventional clock runs out, we should pursue them afterwards - when they don't have the bully-pulpit of the White House to protect them anymore. It'll be CITIZEN bush and CITIZEN cheney. They won't have any say in what's executive privilege and they won't have any further power or influence. I suspect that if they DO survive, and their course is indeed stayed til the bitter end, they'll be so despised by then that their influence won't extend past the Green Zone around the American Enterprise Institute.

[Double T]

20. 'WE' can not follow bushco's barbaric path of execution.

Rotting in prison is much better.

[dipsydoodle]

5. First of all

maybe take a leaf out of Argentina's book :

Argentine court overturns pardon :
The ruling against Mr Riveros is seen as a test case
Argentina's Supreme Court has revoked a pardon granted to a former general accused of human rights abuses.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6898289.stm

So - act retrospectively.

[MADem]

7. I don't go for that kind of thing. Either we grant those powers, or we don't.

If we aren't digging on Presidential pardons, we need to limit the perk. But do-overs are just wrong.

And two wrongs don't make a right.

[AndyTiedye]

14. The HAGUE Doesn't Accept pResidential Pardons

If Bush** pardons himself and his gang, send them to the Hague! That is what the International Criminal Court is for!
They are all terrified of the Hague. I think Bush** has nightmares about ending up there.

[alfredo]

22. The Hague will step in if we fail to bring him to justice.

on edit:

I just sent an e-mail to a friend who does international law for the EU. I asked him if there is a chance that bush and cheney will be charged with war crimes.

[TankLV]

25. We have to FIRST become a member of the world court system...

bushco has PREVENTED that - it came up to a vote just when the WAR CRIMINAL was appoineted to follow PRESIDENT Clinton.

They knew they would commit CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY and couldn't have THAT over them...

[AndyTiedye]

30. If Bush** Issues Blanket Pardons On His Way Out the Door, Congress May Be In a Mood to Do That

Once Bush** and his gang are no longer in office, they will no longer be able to prevent us joining the world court.
Blanket pardons would likely make Congress more disposed to do so.

[MADem]

6. Ban use of the word HOMELAND. And get rid of that halfassed "Department" of it, too.

Make the FBI and Border Patrol do their jobs--and give them the MONEY to do their jobs.

[rusty_parts2001]

9. Agreed. It must have come from a Rove wet dream

[MADem]

16. Or maybe Rove dreamed it up during a walk in the desert....

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

8. After Jan. 20, mention the Hague in SOTUS.

And, reassure the American people that there have been lessons learned from the under prosecution of Watergate and Irancontra, resulting in the recognition that these criminals must be held to highest standards of international law.

We are employing the hypothetical of three branches in the Dems' hands, right? :-)MKJ

[Lasher]

10. What about preemptive pardons?

Gerald Ford gave Nixon a preemptive pardon. And Poppy took this to a whole new level when he did the same for former Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger and five other individuals for their conduct related to the Iran-Contra treachery. What makes you think this president won't do the same for himself and his whole administration?

[sampsonblk]

13. Those are HUGE assumptions

There are signs of another 'change' election coming. I have never seen anything like it. No one, including Democrats, is satisfied with our current Congress. It still looks like the public will vote to add more Dems to the House and Senate. But that is not a certainty at all.

I'd feel much better if we saw some real effort put forth on Capitol Hill. Otherwise, we may not see a repeat of 2006, as so many here seem to expect.

[depakid]

17. Agreed- I see this as an anti-incumbant election

where there may well be some strong 3rd party candidates- both on the national and state levels.

[BrokenBeyondRepair]

18. bush admin will walk.. war will expand n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

19. IMO, I think the best thing we can do is have a second Church Committee

To investigate all of the abuses of power. Then we can work on passing legislation (or repealing it in terms of the Patriot Act) that will stop future Presidents from doing this and impose penalties on those who do.

As far as locking Bush and Cheney up goes, it's not gonna happen.

[dajoki]

21. Not so fast...

Although I, personally would love to see them all rot in an 8 by 8 cell, I don't think most Americans will stand for a slew of investigations. It will be called the do nothing Congress all over again. And we will lose the majority as fast as we got it. They should work on the issues and straighten all the screwed up policies of the last administration.

[Stinky The Clown]

23. How would answer the charge that by ignoring their crimes ......

..... you are, in effect, endorsing them?

Your view, I have no doubt, is honestly held and I'm not putting it down. I'm just asking that honest question.

[dajoki]

26. I am by no means endorsing...

their crimes. I said: "Although I, personally would love to see them all rot in an 8 by 8 cell." Its just that Bushco has made a mess of everything they put their grubby little hands on, that I think a Dem Congress and President would have their hands full just trying to fix the pile of sh*t that was left to them. If they find a way of holding them accountable then, by all means they should go for it. I just don't think it should consume all of their time, or be their whole agenda. If that happened I believe the voters would turn on them very quickly. Besides the Dems should continue with the ongoing investigations and follow through with the contempt threats NOW!! Then just maybe it can be wrapped up before '08. But please don't say that I endorse the High Crimes and Misdemeaners of this administration, that's just not true.

[Stinky The Clown]

27. Please reread what I said

I was not in any way saying you endorsed their crimes nor do I even think that. I did say that the argument against not doing anything *could* be seen as endorsing what they did. If the way I stated it implied you endorsing criminals or crime, then for that I am sorry.

It seems to me that a special 'crimes commission' (essentially a super special prosecutor) could be assembled and tasked with investigating. The government would be free to do the work of government.

Yes, it would be MUCH better to see it all done now. I fear that will not happen.

[dajoki]

28. Yes, I too fear that will not happen...

I think we had a little case of miscommunication here. "A special 'crimes commission' (essentially a super special prosecutor) could be assembled and tasked with investigating. The government would be free to do the work of government." That sounds like a good idea to me. I thought you were talking about Congress just obsessing with the investigations, like they did to Clinton. So I apologize for misunderstanding your original point. And like I said before, nothing would give me greater pleasure than to see them pay for what they have done to our country and world.
:hi:

[Solon]

24. George W. Bush is NEVER going to see the inside of a jail cell...

that is a guarantee. Whether this is a Federal Prison, or even less likely the Hague, he's NOT going to be held accountable for his actions. The reasoning will be simple, Democrats ALSO end up as Presidents, and they don't want to be accountable either. From a historical point of view, Democrats are no better than Republicans when it comes to "gray areas" of legality in their actions, particularly in foreign policy.

This is politics, period, if Bush were to see the inside of a jail cell, then, later on, when the Republicans win the Whitehouse or Congress again, we will see the Bill Clinton witchhunt ten fold, and then it would be Democratic dirty laundry that will be aired, something the Democrats do NOT want. The first rule of political parties is that they are in politics for themselves first, everyone else second, the difference is that the Democrats are just slightly better than the Republicans at helping everyone else.

[Totally Committed]

29. *It will be with a Pro-Corporatist WH and Congress, so I see no substantive change

in the way of doing business or the business being done. There will be no Universal Health Care, ther will still be wars for oil and of aggression, the poor will get poorer while the rich get richer.... and the beat will go on. Corporate America cannot allow that NOT to happen -- no matter which Party wins.

*That is, unless someone who isn't running right now gets into the race and wins the nomination, and to be hones, even that is a crap-shoot.

Just my opinion, but there it is.

TC

[dogman]

31. We've been there before.

They will fight over power sharing. Each self proclaimed leader will charge off into his/her direction. For the "sake of the people" the past will be over looked. Until money is removed from politics, we will live by the "golden rule". For sanity, however, we will have to hope this time will be different.

[Doctor_J]

33. AGGRESSIVE impeachment/prosecution of all the partisan hacks in the DoJ and judiciary

Then Rove and Wolfowitz and the others who started this invasion. If the Constitution is restored very soon, we'll have civil war or worse. If is IS restored, the other things will take care of themselves

[LWolf]

34. Well, that depends.

If Democrats put more corporate reps into office, then you can expect:

Delay on an exit from Iraq.

More testosterone-driven rhetoric on Iran.

A lot of talk and very little action taken to restore civil liberties lost under the Bush administration.

NAFTA/CAFTA will continue.

Efforts to privatize public services will continue.

Insurance companies will continue to dictate the status of health care.

The U.S. still won't ratify Kyoto.

Monsanto will continue with "roundup ready" frankencrops and seed patents that put the food supply at risk.

A kinder, gentler version of the status quo.

If Democrats put some reps into office that are not bought and paid for by corporate donations, it is possible that you will see some of the following:

Troops come home and efforts to engage the rest of the world in diplomacy begin.

Energetic debate and work on universal health care.

Restoration of civil liberties.

An end to NAFTA/CAFTA. I would hope for an end to NCLB as well, but it's up for renewal this year and I don't see much effort on the part of Democrats to oppose it's renewal.

At least those things, to start with.