I just watched many on DU get passionately excited about Bill Moyers show

[rodeodance]

on PBS tonight (see a few threads below).
John Nichols and Bruce Fein were guests-----It was all about impeachment.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/blog/2007/07/poll_civil_liberties_and_natio_1.html


While we are excited (well, at least some of us)----lets flood her office and phones.

"impeachment is not a constitutional crisis like many believe but a Cure for a constitutional crisis" (paraphrasing from the show tonight)



AND: from http://pelosiwatch.us/content/view/163/139/
A clip of: John Nichols - The Genius of Impeachment

Also see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdilpQkZ-e8
YouTube - John Nichols - The Genius of Impeachment

AND:
Cheney's Actions Put Impeachment on the Table
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat/?pid=213909
.........

That's an increasingly popular sentiment among Congressional Democrats, who are breaking with Pelosi to speak the "i" word.

It is an even more popular sentiment among the American people.

According to recent polling by the American Research Group, 54 percent of Americans want Cheney impeached. Among Democrats, that number rises to 76 percent. A majority of self-described independents back action to hold the vice president to account, as do a striking 17 percent of Republicans. With conservatives such as former Reagan administration lawyer Bruce Fein coming out strongly for Cheney's impeachment, the numbers of Republicans who are pulling for accountability is likely to grow.

........Conyers, who has made little secret of his belief that the president and vice president have taken actions that are in conflict with the Constitution, has yet to endorse H. Res. 333. But he is feeling pressure to do so. In May, the Detroit City Council voted to support impeachment of Bush and Cheney for misleading Congress and the public regarding the threat from Iraq, approving spying on the American people, conspiring to encourage the use of torture and acting to strip American citizens of their constitutional rights by ordering indefinite detention without access to legal counsel..........

The arguments for impeachment are varied, to be sure.

But at the heart of the growing enthusiasm for putting the process in motion is a sense that Congress can no longer neglect abuses of power by a lawless executive branch.

"The Founders intended impeachment to be used when those running the government forgot that they worked for the people, and the Founders intended impeachment to be used when those running the government acted as though they were above the law," explains Congressman McDermott, who argues that, "The vice president holds himself above the law, and it is time for the Congress to enforce the law.".............
Contact Pelosi: http://speaker.gov/ (Speaker Website)

Send and email to the Speaker at: http://speaker.gov/contact/

OR send a letter or call her at:

Office of the Speaker
H-232, US Capitol
Washington, DC 20515
[phone]

AND call your Congress-critters Dem and Repug alike-

--From a previous DU post:

call your critters and let them know you're upset.

If you don't, then how will they actually know? They need some input from us!

Tut-tut

edited to add this (H/T calmari):

1 (800) 828 - 0498

1 (800) 459 - 1887

1 (800) 614 - 2803

1 (866) 340 - 9281

1 (866) 338 - 1015

1 (866) 220 - 0044

1 (877) 851 - 6437

ANY ONE of these will connect you to the Capitol Hill switchboard which, in turn, will transfer you to anyone's office in the House and/or Senate. Just for the asking!

Forum Name General Discussion
Topic subject For All Those Who Should Think Impeachment Should Be Off Of The
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1330471#1330471
1330471, For All Those Who Should Think Impeachment Should Be Off Of The
Posted by malaise on Fri Jul-13-07 08:48 PM

Table!!

Nancy Pelosi et al are you listening to Bill Moyers?
Are you listening to Bruce Fein and John Nichols

Impeachment is the cure for a Constitutional Crisis.

What a fabulous discussion.

The Constitution is more important than Bush and Cheney. Hold them to account. IMPEACH!!IMPEACH!!

This is the best program I've watched in years.

Edit headline, text.



Forum Name General Discussion
Topic subject Tough Talk On Impeachement on Bill Moyer's Journal this evening.
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1330902#1330902
1330902, Tough Talk On Impeachement on Bill Moyer's Journal this evening.
Posted by Cleita on Fri Jul-13-07 09:33 PM

This was a terrific show and all participating in this discussion agree that Nancy Pelosi needs to put impeachment back on the table or a terrible prescident in unbridled executive power is being set for future Presidents.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/profile.html

Amazing that the conservative Bruce Fein was the loudest proponent of impeaching both Bush and Cheney. It was an interesting show. Catch it if you can.

Forum Name General Discussion
Topic subject Impeach Cheney--The vice president must be stopped-by Bruce Fein
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1330754#1330754
1330754, Impeach Cheney--The vice president must be stopped-by Bruce Fein
Posted by RedEarth on Fri Jul-13-07 09:15 PM

Bruce Fein was on Bill Moyers tonight

Impeach Cheney
The vice president has run utterly amok and must be stopped.
By Bruce Fein
Posted Wednesday, June 27, 2007, at 5:06 PM ET

Under Dick Cheney, the office of the vice president has been transformed from a tiny acorn into an unprecedented giant oak. In grasping and exercising presidential powers, Cheney has dulled political accountability and concocted theories for evading the law and Constitution that would have embarrassed King George III. The most recent invention we know of is the vice president's insistence that an executive order governing the handling of classified information in the executive branch does not reach his office because he also serves as president of the Senate. In other words, the vice president is a unique legislative-executive creature standing above and beyond the Constitution. The House judiciary committee should commence an impeachment inquiry. As Alexander Hamilton advised in the Federalist Papers, an impeachable offense is a political crime against the nation. Cheney's multiple crimes against the Constitution clearly qualify.

Take the vice president's preposterous theory that his office is outside the executive branch because it also exercises a legislative function. The same can be said of the president, who also exercises a legislative function in signing or vetoing bills passed by Congress. Under Cheney's bizarre reasoning, President Bush is not part of his own administration: The executive branch becomes acephalous. Today Cheney Chief of Staff David Addington refused to renounce that reasoning, instead laughably trying to diminish the importance of the legal question at issue.

The nation's first vice president, John Adams, bemoaned: "My country has in its wisdom contrived for me the most insignificant office that ever the invention of man contrived or his imagination conceived; and as I can do neither good nor evil, I must be borne away by others and meet common fate." Vice President John Nance Garner, serving under President Franklin D. Roosevelt, lamented: "The vice presidency isn't worth a pitcher of warm piss." In modern times, vice presidents have generally been confined to attending state funerals or to distributing blankets after earthquakes.

Then President George W. Bush outsourced the lion's share of his presidency to Vice President Cheney, and Mr. Cheney has made the most of it. Since 9/11, he has proclaimed that all checks and balances and individual liberties are subservient to the president's commander in chief powers in confronting international terrorism. Let's review the record of his abuses and excesses:

http://slate.com/id/2169292/

[rodeodance]

1. please help keep this kicked

[babylonsister]

2. Great - thank you, and K/R! nt

[Drum]

3. kickin'

:thumbsup:

[RufusTFirefly]

4. K/R n/t

[rodeodance]

6. hey Thanks all, I only have dial up and fear it will sink quick

[rodeodance]

8. Impeachment Isn't A Constitutional Crisis; It's The Cure For A Constitutional Crisis!

Forum Name General Discussion
Topic subject Impeachment Isn't A Constitutional Crisis; It's The Cure For A Constitutional Crisis!
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1331242#1331242
1331242, Impeachment Isn't A Constitutional Crisis; It's The Cure For A Constitutional Crisis!
Posted by ocelot on Fri Jul-13-07 10:15 PM

So says John Nichols on Moyers' PBS show.

This needs to be a bumper sticker, a banner towed behind an airplane, a billboard, a tattoo on Nancy Pelosi's forehead!

[truth2power]

94. Hmm...now that you mention it, how much would it cost

to rent a small plane to tow this around in a particular community?

I have no idea, but maybe someone here knows approximately. Maybe during some sports event? I'd be willing to contribute to that.

The benefit is, it would raise people's consciousness. :evilgrin:


Oh, and if any DUers are pilots, maybe they'd be willing to do it at cost - fuel etc.

[rodeodance]

131. hey, things falling from the sky do get attention

[napi21]

5. This program airs on Public TV in Ga. on Sunday!

I don't know where else that may apply, but I contacted PBS and they said their customers preferred they air Bill Moyers Journal and programs like it on Sundays. Just in case it was not on in your area tonight, check your public TV schedule over the weekend.

[Donna Zen]

16. In Maine

I have to wait until Sunday, and hope that PBS doesn't come up with some reason not to air it.

[goodhue]

7. It was a great show

Time to act

[rodeodance]

9. I think the time is Ripe!

[rodeodance]

10. k

[rodeodance]

11. Bill Moyers on Impeachment, playing devil's advocate, was brilliant!

Forum Name General Discussion
Topic subject Bill Moyers on Impeachment, playing devil's advocate, was brilliant!
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1331106#1331106
1331106, Bill Moyers on Impeachment, playing devil's advocate, was brilliant!
Posted by babylonsister on Fri Jul-13-07 09:59 PM

I have even more respect for John Nichols: Bruce Fein was most excellent and full of facts. And my sincere hope is that those on DU and elsewhere who think impeachment is a dumb idea, please rethink that!

[snappyturtle]

20. K&R After the show I looked at the blog on Pbs.org...most

of the comments were wonderfully in support but there were a few bloviated repukes exercising their first amendment right to inform the rest of us that the program wasn't fair and balanced!!!! I thought Bill Moyers played a great devil's advocate and Nichols and Fein couldn't tell us enough fast enough! Bill Moyers is never a disapppontment but this was his best!

[rodeodance]

27. the RW is complaining about it being NOT fair and balanced! What a hoot!

[snappyturtle]

42. It is funny but also troubling.....these people must be getting

their Kool-Aid intraveneously!

[rodeodance]

79. Just turn on msm----they get their truth by via the air--it surrounds us!!

[AntiFascist]

54. It was fair and balanced considering that the truth is being used...

to balance out all the lies being told on Fox.

[dajoki]

86. He was at his best...

You could tell he was eating it all up.

[goodhue]

50. .

[Decruiter]

12. K&R IMPEACHMENT IS THE CURE! n/t

[rodeodance]

13. Fein or Nickols said Pelosi is shirking her Constitutional duty by taking impeachment

off the table.

[rodeodance]

14. k

[rodeodance]

18. ...The guests were crying out for a Representative of the People to step forward, defying the Speake

from Daily Kos


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/7/13/215029/036


.....The guests were crying out for a Representative of the People to step forward, defying the Speaker, and instruct the People in the design of their Constitution. The primary mission of Government, and all who serve in it, is to protect and defend the Constitution, as Sara Taylor forgot this week in her testimony.

The program put a fine point on the moment we now find ourselves within, and this point cannot be made too fine in times like this. In so doing, everyone on the program is inviting the Fourth Estate to remind Congress of their duty. In this moment, we are a vital part of the Fourth Estate -- the bloggers on this site and many others. Just as the press at the time of the Founding Fathers was anyone with a printing press willing to use it, we are using the technology of our time to spur discussion and educate our fellow citizens. Like those early journalists, we must use the technology given us or lose the right to use it at all.

[Captain Hilts]

15. It was fantastic! nt

[Cleita]

17. K&R

[rodeodance]

19. kicky poo poo

[snappyturtle]

21. Kickity kick kick!!!

I'm so glad for DU....nice to have someone to talk with about this program....my husband is out of town 'til tomorrow....I DVR'd it so he can watch it later. I think the broadcast is going to really get people stirred up.....tomorrow I'm e-mailing and calling those who represent me and suggest they need to listen to this Bill Moyers Journal....who says that 13 is unlucky? The is one of the best days I can remember....I think we saw some history tonight!!

[orleans]

45. that show was wonderful wasn't it? it was very inspiring.

i looked up the addresses to all the dem on the house judiciary and found an impeachment speech given by barbara jordan in july 1974! i'm mailing a copy of her speech to all those dems. i posted a thread of the speech:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3376355&mesg_id=3376355

[illinoisprogressive]

22. did not see it. I don't get worked up over impeachement because

we have gone roller coaster over this issue. I just do not feel I will be emotionally tied to it until something is really done in that area.\
I live in Illinois now but, grew up in Missouri. As they say: show me.

[MrMickeysMom]

24. See it... You will be shown something worthy of your viewing! n/t

[rodeodance]

25. BE the SHOWER

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

36. illinoisprogressive, make sure you see this program.

John Nichols and Bruce Fein lay out the reasons for impeaching both of these asshats beautifully. If your local PBS station doesn't air it, catch the rebroadcast on Bill Moyers Journal website at www.pbs.org.

Bottom line is that nothing will be done about holding them accountable for their illegal actions, until the American people contact their Congresscritters and demand that impeachment hearings begin in the House Judiciary Committee.

Bush/Cheney have been subverting the Constitution since before 9-11 and enough is enough...

[Danascot]

67. It's on PBS online

Please watch and come back and tell us what you think. Link here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1332753

[MrMickeysMom]

23. Boy, do I agree. Please keep this thread going

And to those who were having such a time with impeachment, please, please watch Moyers program.

Tonight iIlustrated the best dialogue on what I wished I learned in school. I came away understanding the role citizens need to play if we are to continue as a country. This c uts right across party lines. This diffuses the anomosity of right and left.

[ananda]

26. I'm just so pleased and inspired ..

To see this conversation happening has lifted my chronically depressed spirit immensely.

I don't know if impeachment will happen, but I feel so much better knowing the intelligent
and concerned discussion about the constitutional crisis and its cure is happening.

Thank you everyone, and especially Bill Moyers and his brave guests, Nichols and Fein.

Sue

[snappyturtle]

29. I know. My spirit is low of late too but tonight I got a jolt!

We're starting a new business and sometimes I wonder why we're working so hard because I feel like the country is going into the big tank......but tonight I found the "surge" I can support. :hug:

[emmadoggy]

28. K & R. I just came here to post about the show and saw all the threads...

Holy Crap! I'm so glad I saw it - I only saw it by total chance and missed the first 20 minutes or so, but it was FANTASTIC!! Nichols and Fein ROCKED!! I kept saying, "YES!! ABSOLUTELY!! THAT'S RIGHT!!!" over and over to the tv.
This episode should be absolute required viewing for every citizen of the country and most especially for every freakin' Congressperson!!! Oh, how I wish that were possible!

:bounce:

[snappyturtle]

30. Isn't it wonderful? While the president sleeps his "children" as he

likes to treat us, are rising up to support our constitution and our duty as citizens. Who gets the priviledge of telling * about this program? Wouldn't you love to be a little mouse in that room!

[rodeodance]

33. Nickols said many congresspeople do not know the Constitution

[snappyturtle]

39. You know you may have hit it! He did say that....it's just so..so

difficult to believe. Well, all three suggested that we're dealing with politicians and not statesmen. Too bad Byrd is feeble. I know he knows the Constitution....carries one in his suit pocket! You just gave me an idea. I think tomorrow when I e-mail and call the critters I'll suggest they read the Constitution! Yep.

[rodeodance]

41. now YOU have given me an idea!! Thanky

[snappyturtle]

43. What????? don't leave me hangin' here!! n/t

[rodeodance]

73. your suggestion that they read the constitution--i added that to my memos to my congresscritters

[Tarheel_Dem]

31. K&R...

[rodeodance]

32. WATCH IT HERE!

WATCH IT HERE!
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/profile.html

[Swamp Rat]

35. video's not up yet

I guess I'll have to wait 1 1/2 hours until it comes on again.

[rodeodance]

85. Here-----also a transcript

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/watch.html

[Swamp Rat]

34. k&r

[KoKo]

37. Thanks for putting this together Rodeo....K&R!

[rodeodance]

40. you betcha-------------Lets LIGHT UP THOSE PHONES!

[jannyk]

38. K&R!!

[truedelphi]

44. This is an excellent piece of journalism

Moyers and his guests (Nichols and Fein) are National Treasures.

[orleans]

46. k&r & bookmarking. great show! "NANCY PELOSI IS WRONG.

SHE IS DISREGARDING HER OATH OF OFFICE." --john nichols (from this show)

"IMPEACHMENT IS THE CURE FOR THE CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS. DON'T MISTAKE THE MEDICINE FOR THE DISEASE."
--john nichols

[snappyturtle]

48. Wasn't that a wonderful statement.....Nancy Pelosi is wrong!

I could hardly believe my ears! I am so grateful to have heard it. Gives me more confidence in calling her office and telling whatever little aide answers just that....Madame Speaker is incorrect in her viewpoint on impeachment!

[puebloknot]

47. K&R Moyers is a national treasure! nt

[snappyturtle]

49. I have to say this....Texas has a national treasure! A native Texan to boot!

I bet Bill Moyers hated the day * arrived here to his adopted state.

edit: sorry he was born in OK.....but raised here! Maybe I should just go to bed!

[puebloknot]

119. That's all right. I'm a Texan by birth, but I left when I was two! nt

[burrowowl]

51. K&R

And good info!
Thanks!

[ClayZ]

52. K and R

[Senator]

53. Cure The Crisis: Impeach - Stat n/t

[DemReadingDU]

55. morning kick

[Tellurian]

58. Moyers wasn't on at the time you all were talking about it in my area..

I happened to see it at 2 am this morning. Perhaps it will rerun on Sunday.

The first half of the show was a rerun of the Clinton Impeachment and the resolve with which the Republicans united to avenge the loss of BushI at any cost. Although the guests, Fein and Nichols were quite candid with respect to the over reaching of Bush and Cheney, where was the outrage? Fein outlined a brief summary of Bushco's usurping of our Constitutional rights pretty accurately but it was as if they were movie critics like Siegel and Ebert. Where was the outrage, the anger, the passion, the nerve of the presumptuousness of their own party trampling the Constitution? I give them kudos for their honesty, but where was the PUSH for restitution? Are we only hearing about the malevolence of the Republican leadership NOW because there is a good chance of electing a Democrat with all that omnipotent "usury" power? Are we into the next phase of Republican stealth, stripping the next Executive occupying the White House of all the power inherent with the office? I agree with what they had to say, most of it we are already aware of. It was the soft peddling of the obvious crimes that made me uneasy.

Again, the Republicans get a free pass. Move on, nothing to see here, we were wrong but thats ok, we'll fix it for you, now that we have ours, we're the chosen, got the point yet? When all the tyrants should be prosecuted for High Crimes and Misdemeanors, and I don't mean just Bushco.

[rodeodance]

78. pBs generally does re-runs---need to keep our eys open

[Dr.Phool]

56. I was especially impressed by Fein's arguments.

Coming from a right wing conservative. An honest one.

Let's build a movement. All week long, to flood Pelosi's and Conyers offices with calls and faxes. Then start hitting all the Reps from your state. Spend an hour a day to save our country.

I'm having a cook-out today, and will have many activists and candidates here. I think that will make a good launching point.

[Tellurian]

59. There is no such thing as an honest RW Conservative..

Just because they let you in on the inside for once telling you everything you always knew. Watch out for Plan B, they're already at it!

[Totally Committed]

57. It was a wonderful program!

But, it doesn't get us past the one reality we are up against:

Neither Pelosi nor Reid either gives a rat's ass what we think, feel, want, or demand in this case. They simply feel they know what's best, and will ignore us as they see fit. Period. ---- They have proved that time and time again. Most of the congress and the Senate are perfectly fine with following their lead. Period. ---- If/When the time comes when THEY are willing or able to find their spines, or balls, or guts or HEARTS, they will impeach this monster and his Vice Monster. Otherwise, they will leave office without consequence. Period.

There is nothing left we can say to them that has not been said. There are no signals left to send that have not already been sent. There is no email to be sent that will tip the scale, no phone call that will move them, no fax that hasn't already been sent. They have been trying to tell us THEY are the DECIDERS, not US. And they will ignore us at will.

We can watch and see what happens. But if or when it does happen, be sure of one thing: it didn't happen because any of us helped them see the light. No way. It will happen because of THEIR agenda or a signal they've gotten from some corporation or Lobby that it's okay now for them to go after Bush/Cheney.

We should not delude ourselves any longer about Pelosi or Reid. Our hearts will be broken a million more times if we do.

TC

[Duncan]

77. I'm afraid you are correct.

pelosi and reed are jellyfish whores.

[Fly by night]

60. This is the message I just sent Speaker Pelosi (thanks for the link)

"'Checking a lawless President and Vice-President through impeachment is not an option for Congress -- IT IS AN OBLIGATION.'

'Impeachment is not a constitutional crisis -- it is the cure for a constitutional crisis.'

Just two of many nation-worthy comments from last night's Bill Moyer's Journal on PBS.

Speaker Pelosi, let's get on with it -- take our country back. Impeach these two lawless bastards and become our first female President. You're up to the task and whatever follows.

I am a former constituent, with ties to Stanford and Cal.

Thanks for re-setting the table."

Fly by night (Bernie Ellis, Fly Holler, TN)

[rodeodance]

71. ha. love the 're-setting' the table-------she needs help with that.

[1776Forever]

61. Outstanding post! Bill Moyer's is a Patriot and Journalist who speaks the truth!

With a 42 year old son who is getting ready to go to his 2nd tour of Iraq I can only say from the heart, "Thank you Mr. Moyer's!". It is time!!!!!!!!!!!!!:patriot:

[proReality]

62. K&R n/t

[beaconess]

63. Impeachment cannot be instigated by the Speaker

It's not forbidden by law, of course, but the Speaker should never and has never been generated from the Speaker. Being in the direct line of succession, the Speaker would appear brazen and corrupt if she pushed impeachment from her position.

Instead, impeachment must be done as a bottom up matter in the House. For example, as noted in last night's program, the push for Clinton's impeachment did not originate with Speaker Gingrich. Instead, it was the rank and file Republicans, led by Bob Barr, who generated the Republican groundswell. Then Majority Whip Delay took it up and brought it to Gingrich who, only after the support was already there, moved forward. Of course, we don't know what mischief Gingrich was doing behind the scenes to gin up support, but publicly, he never called for impeachment until the support was in place.

A similar pattern occurred in the Nixon impeachment. House Speaker Carl Albert never publicly called for or pressed for impeachment and did not make any public moves on the issue until there was already significant support.

So all of this beating up of Pelosi is misplaced, in my view. It would be inappropriate for the Speaker to initiate impeachment talk or action at this point. The House and Senate are doing the right thing - they are carefully building a case against Bush. While I still believe that impeachment is unwise, my mind can be changed if enough solid evidence emerges that I think would lead to conviction in the Senate. That can only be done through the investigations that are now taking place outside of the impeachment context. If these investigations were being conducted as part of an impeachment hearing, the Republicans would dig in their heels at every turn and we'd get nowhere. But doing it this way ensures that the information is being gathered and Republicans are slowly coming around to the point that there is a chance of gaining support from a small, but significant minority of them.

If you want impeachment, don't go after Pelosi - go after YOUR member of Congress and demand that they start calling for it.

[ima_sinnic]

64. good advice--will do! (nt)

[truth2power]

66. "being in the direct line of succession"...

I hadn't thought of that - the idea that there would be a conflict of interest, so to speak. But it makes sense. I hope others here will weigh in on this.

In any case, I saw the show and it was outstanding! I differ with you in that I think the impeachment process MUST be started immediately. The fact that Bruce Fein, who was/is with the American Enterprise Institute was so strident in advocating for impeachment that he nearly jumped out of his chair at times, this scares the bejeezus out of me!

Why? Because when someone affiliated with a CONSERVATIVE think tank is trying to raise the alarm, we are in deep, deep doo-doo, folks!

Congress MUST take action, immediately. :mad: :mad:

[rodeodance]

89. I read and listen to him as the Constitutional expect.

[beaconess]

116. I thought the show was excellent, too, and it made me look at this in a different way

But more important, the fact that respected Republicans are now calling for impeachment shows that the dynamics have shifted.

[Duncan]

84. Thanks for the good points. I feel a little better.

I just called Reed and Pelosi "jellyfish whores" a minute ago. Perhaps I am being a bit harsh.
Maybe she will "reset" the table when the diners' attitudes change.

She put herself, the Dems, and the people in a bad position by saying it was off the table in the first place. I can't remember if there was ever even a half-assed explanation from her for saying that.

[beaconess]

117. Perhaps she shouldn't have said "off the table," but her point is correct

She was trying to make clear that - unlike the Republican majority under Clinton - the Democrats aren't salivating over impeachment (which, to many, appears to be just a form of political payback), but were planning to focus on the issues that got them elected: the war, the economy, oversight, etc. Impeachment was NOT one of the critical factors in the 2006 election.

Perhaps she remembers - and assumes voters will, as well - that the Republicans began pushing for the impeachment of Bill Clinton the second he was reelected, long before the Monica scandal. It was clear throughout the impeachment process that Republicans were using it to bring down a president they couldn't stop electorally, not because he had done anything wrong and that even if he had never meant Lewinsky, Bill Clinton would have been impeached for SOMETHING. The Republican abuse of the impeachment tool and the public's sour response to it is likely one of the reasons Pelosi is being very careful to ensure the Democrats do not appear to be hungry to impeach Bush for the sake of political payback. She was simply making the point that the Democrats were using their time and efforts on the things that the voters cared about.

But that doesn't mean it can't be put back on the table, if the American public decides that this is the way to go.

[ProudDad]

120. She could initiate it

for DAMN sure she can BLOCK impeachment proceedings...as she has for the last few months.

She's the Speaker. That post is much more powerful than you can imagine...

[beaconess]

127. Re-read my post - I didn't say she doesn't have the power to do it

but that there are good reasons that she cannot initiate it.

I'm well aware of how powerful the Speaker is. I also am quite aware that just because someone has the power to do something doesn't mean that it is always prudent to use it.

[ProudDad]

122. HR 333 - Kucinich bill

Pelosi's blocking it...

Call Pelosi!!!!

[beaconess]

128. Please get your facts straight - Pelosi is NOT blocking this resolution!

It is going through the same process that just about every other House bill goes through - it was immediately referred to the Judiciary Committee, which referred it to the Constitution Subcommittee

If you're not happy with how the resolution is proceeding, you should take it up with Judiciary Committee Chair Conyers or Jerry Nadler, chair of the Subcommittee.

You may wish that Pelosi would take extraordinary action on this particular measure and override the normal committee process - action the Speaker does not normally do. (And considering there are only 13 cosponsors and hardly any groundswell in the Democratic Caucus for action, this would be an extremely bizarre and ill-advised move.) But it is completely inaccurate to claim that she is blocking the bill. She is doing no such thing.

[ProudDad]

133. With a word

she could expedite it...

However, she shouldn't bear all the blame. 64% of the people want it but the reps are too fucking cowardly to do what their constituents want them to do.

[beaconess]

134. How do you know what "word" she's saying to the committee chairs or anyone else in the Caucus

Just because she hasn't said it on television where WE can all hear it doesn't mean she's not saying and doing all sorts of things internally.

Leadership is more than just talking on television. Much more. None of us has any idea of what's going on behind the scenes.

[pberq]

65. Kick & Nominated

[truth2power]

68. I wish...oh how I wish I had taped this show. Crap!..

If you order the tape/DVD it is $30.00. A little steep for me right now.

If anyone knows if this show will be repeated, please let me know. In my area, they used to regularly repeat the PBS shows, but not anymore.

I would like to get some of my friends together and have them watch it.

[rodeodance]

69. yes, rather steep but look around as i see some DU members taped it and

they might share

[truth2power]

75. Thanks. I'd be willing to pay for the tape and the postage. n/t

[hashibabba]

93. go to www.pbs.org and look at your local PBS stations.

Its easy to find repeats that they're showing in the future.

[truth2power]

95. Thanks. Will do, later today. *fingers crossed* eom

[hashibabba]

98. I just looked at one of my three PBS channels and they're

showing it again tomorrow night and then three different times on Monday! So definitely check your listings!

Not too bad! I'm going to set my dvr now!

[rodeodance]

100. be sure to send the Times to be aired to all in you address book.

[ProudDad]

121. You can view it on-line

go to PBS.org

Go to Moyer's Journal

Go to Watch the Show

Pick the 2nd segment of last night's show...

[truth2power]

135. Thanks. I guess I wasn't clear. I did see the show, but

I wish I'd taped it because I'd like to corral a few of my friends and get them to watch it.

[april]

70. done called & emailed nm

[rodeodance]

72. a big KICK for the morning crowd

[rodeodance]

74. I sent off a short handwritten letter to Pelosi and all my congresscritters.

[L0oniX]

76. Big Huge K&R

[rodeodance]

80. another KIcky for Sat.am morning crowd.

[rodeodance]

112. and now for the late afternoon crowd

[pacalo]

81. "Impeachment isn't a constitutional crisis - it is the *cure* for a constitutional crisis."

Thumbs up.

[rodeodance]

82. that is the important quote that I forwarded to all my congresscritters

[pacalo]

88. I'll do the same.

Along with this jewel from a David Swanson article that I found on firedoglake...

George Mason (1725-1792), the father of the Bill of Rights (1791-2002), argued at the Constitutional Convention in favor of providing the House of Representatives the power of impeachment by pointing out that the President might use his pardoning power to “pardon crimes which were advised by himself” or, before indictment or conviction, “to stop inquiry and prevent detection.”

James Madison (1751-1836), the father of the U.S. Constitution (1788-2007), added that “if the President be connected, in any suspicious manner, with any person, and there be grounds to believe he will shelter him, the House of Representatives can impeach him; they can remove him if found guilty.”]

[stimbox]

83. K&R

:kick:

[rodeodance]

87. some good REferences from the website:

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/profile.html

Tough Talk on Impeachment

Watch Video
Read Transcript
Comment
July 13, 2007


......

References and Reading:
"Statement of Bruce Fein Before the Senate Judiciary Committee On Presidential Signing Statements," June 27, 2006

"Impeach Cheney," Bruce Fein, Slate.com, June 27, 2007

"Restrain this White House," Bruce Fein, October, 2006

"Vermont Puts Impeachment on the Table"
John Nichols covers the Vermont State Senate putting impeachment on the table. March 3, 2007

"In Praise of Impeachment," John Nichols, IN THESE TIMES, December 13, 2006

The White House: Homeland Security
The President's policy on matters related to security and intelligence.

The Office of the Vice President
The Vice President's Web site contains transcripts of his public speeches and policy statements.

Polls: President Bush and the Bush Administration
Pollingreport.com has gathered nearly all the polls taken by major media outlets into a massive report interactive report.

"Kucinich Introduces Impeachment Articles Against Cheney," April 24, 2007
Denis Kucinich, D-OH, put forth a resolution in the House to move to impeach Vice President Cheney. Read his speech to the House.

"Kucinich's Battle Against Cheney Not So (Im)Peachy Keen," Dana Milbank, THE WASHINGTON POST, April 25, 2007

"The Angler," THE WASHINGTON POST, June 24, 2007
Barton Gellman and Jo Becker's series on Vice Presient Cheney

References and Reading:
Bill Moyers on Pardoning Scooter Libby

"Buying the War" How did the mainstream media get it so wrong in the lead up to the Iraq War?

Published July 12, 2007
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/profile.html

[fencesitter]

90. Oh man, just watched this show on-line at the PBS site

I was one of those who was ambiguous about impeachment before watching Fein and Nichols put it in so straightforward and unpartisan terms. Of course it made me really pissed off, all over again, at the needless, pointless, purely political and wastefull impeachment hearings of Bill Clinton. That whole ugly show made the process petty, political, senseless and unpopular to a country that had never seen or even knew of the impeachment process. I'm sure that's why congress is so afraid of it today. The crimes of this president and his Vice are what impeachment was made for, not blow jobs or someone like Tom Delay. My letters are going out this weekend.

[rodeodance]

91. Larisa Alexandrovna: Bill Moyers Again Shows What Real Journalism Is About...

Forum Name General Discussion
Topic subject Larisa Alexandrovna: Bill Moyers Again Shows What Real Journalism Is About...
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1334014#1334014
1334014, Larisa Alexandrovna: Bill Moyers Again Shows What Real Journalism Is About...
Posted by Hissyspit on Sat Jul-14-07 11:29 AM

http://www.atlargely.com:80/2007/07/bill-moyers-aga.html

Bill Moyers again shows what real journalism is about...

The Taboo Topic:

- snip -

But something odd happened on the way to the impeachment talk and the appropriate political views that were supposed to be cued. Neither Nichols or Fein defended the Democrats, if anything, they skewered them for their lack of duty to their oath of office. Both agreed on the facts of the issues, that is, that serious crimes have been committed by the Executive. And both agreed that there is a remedy in impeachment and that such a remedy was the duty of Congress.

The conversation was strictly about the issues, minus the politics and both men were eloquent and passionate and not once did one of them take the now all to familiar "defend the party" posture. This amazingly informative discussion (wow, remember the old days of informative journalism, actual substance based conversations?) was mostly due to Moyers as the host. He did not invite shills or pundits, hired out to spread talking points like a virus against the minds of unsuspecting Americans. If Moyers wanted to play Wolf Blitzer, he simply would have had on Donna Brazil (representing someone from the left I assume) and John Fund (representing the money side of the Republican party while posing as a journalist, hard tight rope to balance it is) and the two would have had a typical political opinion festival. Brazil would have argued closer to the facts, simply because the facts are in opposition to this administration. Fund would have argued party affiliation. If the shoe were on the other foot, Brazil would have likely argued party affiliation and Fund would have likely argued closer to the facts, because they were in opposition to the President (in this case, Clinton).

- snip -

This was indeed impressive and my thirst for it reminded me once again just how compromised our corporate press is, how compromised our Congress is, and how broken this country is when the crimes we have witnessed against the Constitution, the rule of law, and the American people over the last six years have still not led to impeachment hearings - just the hearings even.

On the Facts of It:

Facts are not fair nor balanced. They are what they are. Yet our media treats idiotic drivel out of the mouths of paid consultants on equal footing with that of an actual expert in a particular field or actual facts. I always point to the hypothetical example of what I call the "flat earth unfairness doctrine," which stipulates that under the rules of engagement for reporting the news, both sides must be equally represented even if one side is not reputable, taking money for their "educated opinion," or defying the laws of physics and seeing pink elephants in tutus in their spare time.

By this doctrine, a fool taking money from a group of "flatlanders," as I call them, comes on a show and represents a factually unsupportable positions such as "the earth is flat." This person is given the same consideration, air time, and "fairness," as the scientist presenting the facts, namely, that the earth is round. So this presenting of facts as though they have equal footing with the opinion of shills and fools is what the public has become accustomed to. The result has been a complete removal of actual fact in favor of opinion, where the journalist plays host and lets each side present their "theory," while the public becomes more and more confused.

- snip -

Why is the corporate media not talking about impeachment?

Aside from the polls, there is really no serious examination of impeachment and educating the public on what at least half of the country wants to understand. I keep wondering why this is, and then it dawned on me on me tonight. The problem is in the flatlander doctrine of having a right/left narrative.

MORE

[femrap]

92. I haven't felt so good for a very looooooooooong

time....Moyers back on PBS is a great thing and he discusses IMPEACHMENT for an entire hour.

And John Nichols is right...We, The People, are way ahead of the Dems in DC...they need to catch up.

Call, snail mail, email, LTTE....let's hit 'em hard this coming week, OK?

[rodeodance]

96. things are a changing aren't they! -----too show for me but we have to keep hitting

our congresscritters HARD and OFTEN!! Repug and Dema alike

[femrap]

125. Last weekend I wrote 24 note cards to the 23

Dems on the Judiciary Committee plus Pelosi urging them to Impeach...they should get them in another week. I think snail mail takes 2 weeks. I think I'll do this every 2 weeks...There is something about a card in one's hand....difficult to delete.

I'm going shopping to look for a card that has a TABLE on it!!! Guess what I'll put on that table!!!

I really think it's up to We, The People, to get this done!

[pberq]

97. the judiciary committee must call formal hearings on the impeachment of George Bush and Dick Cheney

an excerpt from the transcript:

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/transcript4.html

. . .BILL MOYERS: So practically, what do you think should happen now? And what do people listening, what can they do?

BRUCE FEIN: I think what ought to happen is there needs to be these hearings in the judiciary hearing this is why we care.

BILL MOYERS: Impeachment hearing--

BRUCE FEIN: Impeachment--

BRUCE FEIN: This is why these are--

BILL MOYERS: You're saying you want the judiciary committee to call formal hearings on the impeachment of George Bush and Dick Cheney?

BRUCE FEIN: Yes. Because there are political crimes that have been perpetrated in combination. It hasn't been one, the other being in isolation. And the hearings have to be not into this is a Republican or Democrat. This is something that needs to set a precedent, whoever occupies the White House in 2009. You do not want to have that occupant, whether it's John McCain or Hillary Clinton or Rudy Giuliani or John Edwards to have this authority to go outside the law and say, "I am the law. I do what I want. No one else's view matters."

JOHN NICHOLS: The hearings are important. There's no question at that. And we should be at that stage. Remember, Thomas Jefferson and others, the founders, suggested that impeachment was an organic process. That information would come out. The people would be horrified. They would tell their representatives in Congress, "You must act upon this." Well, the interesting thing is we are well down the track in the organic process. The people are saying it's time. We need some accountability.

BILL MOYERS: But Nancy Pelosi doesn't agree.

JOHN NICHOLS: Nancy Pelosi is wrong. Nancy Pelosi is disregarding her oath of office. She should change course now. And more importantly, members of her caucus and responsible Republicans should step up. It is not enough--

[rodeodance]

104. Conyers is listening to Pelosi ----he has not even signed onto Dennis K bill.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

99. kick

[RestoreGore]

101. Fantastic and necessary program everyone should watch

Especially Congress and those who do not think impeachment is viable now for whatever reason. This country must come first and we must do this now to prevent future kings from continuing to exercise the overreaching executive powers that go above our Constitution. And that is a bit frightening because I have not heard one candidate on any side claim that should they follow this "king" that they would reverse all the power he now holds. WE NEED TO HEAR THAT. Which is also why I wonder why some Democrats say that impeachment should not happen now. Do they think to then continue the powers Bush has now granted himself? Well, I don't care who it is in the White House even if it were Al Gore, that simply MUST NOT be allowed to happen.

[liam_laddie]

102. Key FAX numbers, HTH

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Faxing seems to be the most effective way to get a hard copy in their hands, as against their
interns' phone notes. You can hand write/print your message, with appropriate illustrations and
emphasis; the fax machine doesn't care what it's transmitting/receiving. All are fax numbers.

House Speaker Pelosi: Speaker's office; 202-225-8259
Rep. Pelosi: her CA-08 office in DC; 202-225-3304 (or...often no pickup...202-225-4188)
Rep. John Conyers: 202-225-0072
Rep. Henry Waxman: 202-225-4099 (Comm. 202-225-4784)

Majority Leader Harry Reid: 202-224-7327
Sen. Charles Schumer: 202-228-3027
Sen. Pat Leahy: 202-224-3479 (Judiciary Comm. 202-224-9516)

As I understand it, the House impeaches (indicts), the Senate tries (convicts or acquits.) In the case of inherent contempt by Harriet Myers, urge Conyers on this. Meirs unlocks the Pandora's Box, or lies and goes to jail. Let's give the Sergeant-At-Arms something to pass the time!
Pelosi has GOT to be getting the message! DarkSyde first, then Gonzo, then the prince of BFEE.
Their oaths of office demand this!

[rodeodance]

103. they thanks

[rodeodance]

105. PBS wants to hear what you think about the WAR DEBATE Bill Moyers

Forum Name General Discussion
Topic subject PBS wants to hear what you think about the WAR DEBATE Bill Moyers
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1334833#1334833
1334833, PBS wants to hear what you think about the WAR DEBATE Bill Moyers
Posted by babylonsister on Sat Jul-14-07 01:49 PM

discussed last night. Go to link to make a comment, read the interesting comments, or watch Moyers.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/blog/2007/07/bill_moyers_essay_the_war_deba.html

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

106. K & R. nt.

[tbyg52]

107. K&R!

:patriot:

[Qutzupalotl]

108. Kick!

[rodeodance]

109. It is time to put the onus of accountability on the Repugs.

uga uga. This thread sunk like lead:


Forum Name General Discussion: Politics
Topic subject It is time to put the onus of accountability on the Repugs. Many
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3377201#3377201
3377201, It is time to put the onus of accountability on the Repugs. Many
Posted by rodeodance on Sat Jul-14-07 01:38 PM


times I see comments like 'its useless" or they will not listen anyway when we are urged to call our Senators/ congress-critters/Leaders and urge them to do certain legislation or we want to do something.

Many of us have been Lighting up the phones on Pelosi and Dem staff members offices.
IT is past time to LIGHT UP THE PHONES and emails and letters on the REPUG offices!

I just wrote a hand written letter to my Repug Legislator reminding him of what
I heard on Bill Moyer's Journal last evening----that it was a member of Nixon's own
Party that stood up to Nixon and told him Enough is enough-time to resign. Barry
Goldwater had the courage to do what was right for his country.And I asked him
to do the right thing for his country also.
Monday I will Call his office also!

I also sent him a link to the show and this quote:
"Impeachment Isn't A Constitutional Crisis; It's The Cure For A Constitutional Crisis!"

Watch and listen at:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/watch.html

Of course you should call your Dem congress-critters also but Repugs NEED to
KNOW your thoughts also. Please.

CONTACTS INFO:

1 (800) 828 - 0498;
1 (800) 459 - 1887
1 (800) 614 - 2803
1 (866) 340 - 9281
1 (866) 338 - 1015
1 (866) 220 - 0044
1 (877) 851 - 6437
ANY ONE of these will connect you to the Capitol Hill switchboard which, in turn, will transfer you to anyone's office in the House and/or Senate. Just for the asking!

United States House of Representatives:
House of Representatives' alphabetical list of members' official websites, including each member's state and district, but without party affiliation.
http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW.shtml

Senate listing of members' home pages, email addresses,
names, telephone numbers, office mail addresses, and other contact information.

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

Send and email to the Speaker at: http://speaker.gov/contact /

OR send a letter or call her at:

Office of the Speaker
H-232, US Capitol
Washington, DC 20515
[phone]

Also see these threads---as others in Greatest:
Forum Name General Discussion
Topic subject Watch Bill Moyers 1-Hour Special On Impeachment Tonight On PBS
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1327903#1327903
1327903, Watch Bill Moyers 1-Hour Special On Impeachment Tonight On PBS
Posted by Hissyspit on Fri Jul-13-07 03:30 PM

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/24642

Forum Name General Discussion: Politics
Topic subject I just watched many on DU get passionately excited about Bill Moyers show
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3376163#3376163
3376163, I just watched many on DU get passionately excited about Bill Moyers show
Posted by rodeodance on Fri Jul-13-07 10:28 PM

on PBS tonight (see a few threads below).
John Nichols and Bruce Fein were guests-----It was all about impeachment.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/blog/2007/07/poll_civil_liberties_and_natio_1.html

.....MORE video at website also
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/transcript2.html

another thread added: FAX

Forum Name General Discussion: Politics
Topic subject Key FAX numbers, HTH
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3376163#3377227
3377227, Key FAX numbers, HTH
Posted by liam_laddie on Sat Jul-14-07 01:46 PM

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Faxing seems to be the most effective way to get a hard copy in their hands, as against their
interns' phone notes. You can hand write/print your message, with appropriate illustrations and
emphasis; the fax machine doesn't care what it's transmitting/receiving. All are fax numbers.

House Speaker Pelosi: Speaker's office; 202-225-8259
Rep. Pelosi: her CA-08 office in DC; 202-225-3304 (or...often no pickup...202-225-4188)
Rep. John Conyers: 202-225-0072
Rep. Henry Waxman: 202-225-4099 (Comm. 202-225-4784)

Majority Leader Harry Reid: 202-224-7327
Sen. Charles Schumer: 202-228-3027
Sen. Pat Leahy: 202-224-3479 (Judiciary Comm. 202-224-9516)

As I understand it, the House impeaches (indicts), the Senate tries (convicts or acquits.) In the case of inherent contempt by Harriet Myers, urge Conyers on this. Meirs unlocks the Pandora's Box, or lies and goes to jail. Let's give the Sergeant-At-Arms something to pass the time!
Pelosi has GOT to be getting the message! DarkSyde first, then Gonzo, then the prince of BFEE.
Their oaths of office demand this!

[ClassWarrior]

111. The blame belongs with the criminal, not the cop.

NGU.

[Tellurian]

115. Salient point!..

:thumbsup:

Pelosi doesn't have the votes for Impeachment...if she did, we wouldn't be here discussing it.

[proud patriot]

110. K and R

:patriot:

[libodem]

113. The Constitution Rules!

NOT W.

[rodeodance]

132. maybe over time?

[LibinMo]

114. I heard Harry Reid today on an AAR interview saying again

"impeachment is off the table" Grrr

Then I came home and found a letter from the White House explaining
Bush's position on the Iraq war. Don't know which one of my e-mail/
phone calls/letters they were replying to. This is the first response
I've ever gotten.

NEXT I sat down and watched my tape Bill Moyers Journal. Now I'm even more
convinced that impeachment is necessary in order to save our country. The issues
go beyond Iraq. Freedom as we know it is at stake.

What can we do? W doesn't care about anyone else's opinion. Cheney has things
going exactly as he wished. And the Democrats we elected to put a stop to this war refuse to act.

I am so frustrated. Just needed to vent.

[rodeodance]

123. venting is good for the soul. Its the Repugs that have fillerbuster all the Dem

bills-----so i do not so much blame the Dems. The slim majority turns out to be 60 votes.

[Sherman A1]

118. My Rep is a co-sponsor

Lacy Clay (MO 1). I just emailed Pelosi urging her to move HR333 forward.

[Surya Gayatri]

124. Major K & R

Have sent the Bill Moyers Journal PBS link to Republic relatives. Will they watch and learn?

[veness]

126. Kick. n/t

[LuckyLib]

129. Moyers' program was outstanding. Thanks for the info -- I'm going to be on the phone on Monday a.m.

ranting and raving at senators and reps! Best synthesis of Bushistas need to be swept out of the WH!

[rodeodance]

130. I sent mine a short snail mail letter---but will fax and phone Monday also.

[Breeze54]

136. "The vice presidency isn't worth a pitcher of warm piss." - VP John Nance Garner

"As Alexander Hamilton advised in the Federalist Papers, an impeachable offense is a political crime against the nation. Cheney's multiple crimes against the Constitution clearly qualify."

:kick: