Today I have read of "purges" and been accused of "treason"...

[edzontar]

For supporting a candidate who has the temerity to stay in the race until it is over and dares to criticize a man whom some consider to be the anointed front-runner.

At the same time, and in some cases, from the very same voices, I have read that the party is more "unified" than ever before.

I presume that I and all the other supporters of Howard Dean have somehow been excluded from this particular notion of the "party."

Now I have never been the kind of person to chant the ABB mantra (which I consider to be intellectually and ethically bankrupt), but I have always assumed that I would support and vote for the nominee of the party in the general election for the good of the party.

But it seems, from what I am reading here, that my support and my vote are no longer welcome, since I have had the unmitigated gall to argue that the debate should stay open, at least for a few more weeks, so that the maximum number of voters have the opportunity to weigh in on the electoral process.

The argument of the "Dean must give up" camp (a notion that does not seem to extend to Edwards or Kucinich--hmmm, I wonder why?) seems to be that any further criticism of Kerry served only the pukeheads that we shall face in the GE.

But so many of these argumenst come from the same voices who mercilessly attacked Dean for months, and rejected the very similar pleas from myself and his other supporters at that time.

It is true that the primaries have moved us to a new place, and Kerry seems to be on the way--to my own personal disappointment--to being our nominee.

But is it asking too much of my colleagues here to lay off on the calls for purges and accusations of "treason" until this thing is settled once and for all?

This is my last plea for reason on this point.

If I have to endure much more talk about purges and "treason," I shall have a much more difficult time supporting the nominee, especially if it is Kerry.

[madfloridian]

1. You forgot one.

Sharpton.

Your quote is dead on:
"The argument of the "Dean must give up" camp (a notion that does not seem to extend to Edwards or Kucinich--hmmm, I wonder why?) seems to be that any further criticism of Kerry served only the pukeheads that we shall face in the GE.

[edzontar]

4. Sorry I missed you Al..you are my third choice, actually...

But it is Dean and his supporters who are catching all this premature flack, and it is getting out of hand, I think...

[Robb]

2. On a day with many longish posts

You, also, did a really nice one. :thumbsup:

If Dean is Sergei Kirov, who is Leonid Nikolaev? And what does that make the DLC? :evilgrin:

[diplomats]

3. Why would you let people on an Internet forum

get to you? Just ignore it. It sounds to me like you're looking for an excuse not to support Kerry. He's not responsible for the posts you find offensive. Please, keep your eyes on the big picture.

[edzontar]

5. I will admit I have Kerry issues...but what really bugs me is the push to

"Stop Dean" NOW--can't we have a few more days and weeks of VOTING please, Mr. Man?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

9. Absolutely and I agree

Support your candidate and hit the alert if anyone accuses you of treason...that's bullshit

[madfloridian]

8. Actually, that is not the issue.

The issue is the way it has been done. By the party, by the media, and by this forum.
Our candidates should all be able to take any scrutiny sent their way.
The issue is that the party wants it to be their way, and care nothing for the voters' right to choose.

[LiberalFighter]

23. Why should we listen to the "Party" they screwed up the last election

Besides the party is stronger with the greatest input of the people. It shouldn't be just the big shots.

[eileen_d]

6. I am not in the "Dean must give up" camp

so you're not talking to me, but I would make a related plea:

Do not demonize all supporters of the current frontrunner for the actions and expressed opinions of some.

I do not think that you are doing this in your post, but it came to mind, FWIW...

[edzontar]

11. Of course I will not and should not blame YOU

For the excesses of some intemperate colelagues.


All I am really calling for is a civil discourse, and some patience as the process works itself out.



Thanks for that important reminder.

[vi5]

7. Oh please...when Dean was the frontrunner....

I got called a freeper, a republican, a coward, brainwashed, gullible, an enabler, bush lite, obsolete, outdated and a few other ones that were not as colorful as those.

And I wasn't even a supporter of any other candidate, so I can't imagine how bad Kerry supporters or Clark supporters got it from that camp. I just dared to state that maybe perhaps I was not 100% sold on Dean and/or asked legitimate questions about him.

Although something tells me that nothing I say will convince you that the sh*t has been flying from every corner this whole primary season and nobody was above the fray.

[eileen_d]

Unfortunately this is also true. eom

[edzontar]

12. The worst was always leveled at Dean, though....

Clark I think was the second most frequent target, and yet it seems like the switch to Kerry has been made with barely a blip on the radar screen over in that camp.

By the way, if anyome called you a freepr or a coward, etc., that should have been deleted in any case, since it is personal and totally against the rules.

[vi5]

19. No, he didn't get it the worst......Sorry but that's just not true...

The front runner, or the one getting the most media attention always got it worse. The only difference is that Dean was the front runner a lot longer than anyone else.

I have never had a horse in this race. My primary doesn't matter since it's the very, very last one, and none of the candidates inspire me any more than the others. They are all great guys.

But as an unbiased observer, I say without hesitation that I read almost all the posts on this board each day from 7-5 and then some at night, and Dean got no more than anyone else just that his supporters complained the loudest.

Yes, the offending posts did get deleted but not before I saw them and saw who was posting them. I never got those kind of reactions from any other candidates supporters. Not once, and I questioned all the candidates at one point or another.

[tobius]

10. Sounds like you need to be sent to the reeduction camp,

careful if you're seen with eyeglasses.



edited because I kant spel!

[silver state d]

13. Don't let 'em get ya down

any one who thnks we need to wrap this up missed the point. The primes are GREAT!!!! we get together and get busy. lots of free media of People beating up bush co. I love it!!!! when the time comes we should rally under one banner but for now lets get this democracy thang on!!!!!:party:

[West Coast Democrat]

14. I have been offended by some of your posts also

so it's a two-way street

[edzontar]

15. But I have not accused anyone here of treason or called for a purge

Look, debates get heated, sometimes we all get pissed off and say cruel things, but these latest calls for purges et al are really beyond the pale, it seems to me, not to mention fascistic in intent and language.

[diamondsoul]

16. This part is pure nonsense-

"(a notion that does not seem to extend to Edwards or Kucinich--hmmm, I wonder why?)"

Kucinich supporters have heard from very nearly his first day IN the race that he needs to drop out, so please spare me the whine now. ESPECIALLY given how many Dean supporters were the purveyors of "Dennis is wasting the time needed by 'viable' candidates.".

On second thought, carry on. Give me another reason to walk away from supporting any candidate but Kucinich.

[edzontar]

17. I have not heard or read a WORD pressuring DK to drop out..

And I don't think he should.

But I would suggest that he make sure his advisors are all working in his best interest--and ONLY in his best interest....

[diamondsoul]

21. Then you haven't been reading enough.

Granted it's dropped off a bit this week, but believe me it'll start right back up as soon as the intern scandal dies down.:eyes:

I guess you missed all the "Why is Kucinich still in the race?" threads last week and Will's replies to them.

I trust Dennis Kucinich's judgement and I trust Will Pitt's integrity. I don't appreciate an unfounded suggestion of sabotage. Dennis has gotten more coverage since Will came onboard and the vast majority of it has been good coverage. Not only that by my candidate has a mind of his own and sometimes over-rides the suggestions of others in the campaign because he believes it's the right thing to do.

Look I'd like Dean to drop out for selfish reasons, however I'm not out here complaining that he should. I'm not accusing members of his staff of wrongdoing without evidence. I'm not complaining because my candidate happens to be under the pressure gun this week.

Howard Dean has moved up in my rankings as I posted in a thread I started but I still have my problems with him. I HOPE he'll fix that because this division between Dean and Kucinich supporters has hurt us all.

[Catt03]

18. I think everyone should be grateful to Dean

and he was my first choice for a long time.

I have now succumbed to elect-ability and that means Kerry, who is not a bad choice at all.

I am one of those who thinks that if it were not for Dean and "us", the loud ones, we would not be where we are today. I also believe that the media stripped Dean of any power he did have. It wasn't and isn't fair but getting Bush out of office is more important to me now.

[bushwakker]

20. From who?

Where is all this talk of "purge" and "treason" coming from? I haven't seen any of that stuff posted here. I see alot of posts from those who back candidates other than JK talking about it - but no evidence that it actully exists. If you are referring to TNR article about a "purge" consider the source. TNR ceased to be a progressive voice years ago. I for one don't think Dean is hurting JK or the party by staying in. As for Sharpton, well he is another story. He is being openly funded by the GOP - doesn't that bother you?

[madfloridian]

24. In a thread I started, there are several saying that exactly.

The word treason was used and the posts still remain. That Dean was essentially committing treason in continuing to criticize Kerry, the frontrunner and supposed nominee. It should be on about page 3 now.

[bushwakker]

25. I would dis-associate myself from those comments

I certainly do not agree with that line of thinking - but there is a certain amount of a persecution complex going on around here. Judging by the sheer volume you have to admit that JK is taking an awful lot of heat from the many Dean people. By contrast I see very little anti-Dean sentiment. I like Dean but he can't beat AWOL - that's just the way it is. I get frustrated with people saying they won't support the nominee if it ain't their guy. To me that's just plain foolish. I guess I'm more a pragmatist than a idealist.

[madfloridian]

26. I do not know what to say to that.

I should disassociate myself from something said by someone else about Dean?

[KoKo]

22. I will write "Dean" in when NC finally get's a chance to be included in

these primaries, which is looking like April (caucuses...yuk..Iowa) or July for Primary due to Repug takeover of our Legislature. We have a Democratic Govenor (Mike Easley) and John Edwards (Presidential Candidate/NC Senator) but NC cannot vote because of some Repugs until JULY?

:shrug: I will "write in Dean." Then I've done something to protest. And that's what I care about.

[Zomby Woof]

27. I think Dean should stay in

So I can keep posting about him.

[ngGale]

28. I want Dean to stay in along with...

all the other candidates. What I don't want is the media pushing Dean into submission. It's not like Dean to bow down to pressure. I'm all for Dean staying in..