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Like her or not, deplore the source if you will, Susan Estrich nails the Democratic race so far

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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-22-07 03:58 PM
Original message
Like her or not, deplore the source if you will, Susan Estrich nails the Democratic race so far
You couldn’t be doing better raising money than Barack Obama has been. While an experienced, veteran senator and candidate like John McCain is running out of money and firing the staffers who haven’t quit themselves— staving off obituaries that are at least in draft form— the young senator from Illinois is literally rolling in the dough.

To beat Hillary Clinton in raising money is a very very big deal; to have raised more than Rudy Giuliani and Mitt Romney, both of whom have been in this game for longer than Obama, is a major accomplishment in anyone’s book.

Obama doesn’t have to defend a vote in favor of the war; he’s had one wife who is a terrific woman and extraordinarily attractive campaigner; he has adorable children, a very smart staff, and a committed army of Internet fans.

So the question is: where’s the surge? Why is the guy who can outraise everybody, who has more donors than anybody, basically stuck in second and not moving in the polls?

It certainly isn’t the media’s fault. I’ve never seen anyone get the kind of coverage he does. It’s not the fault of his fellow candidates, or the folks on the other side. Other than a spat over a year ago with McCain, and Sen. Joe Biden’s inarticulate description of his cleanliness— which hurt Biden and not Obama—no one has laid a glove on him.

Like all the Democratic candidates, he’s been calling for the withdrawal of troops from Iraq, which obviously requires some planning to accomplish properly, but you don’t see the Defense Department goons going after Obama the way they did Hillary this week, accusing her of giving comfort to the enemy. Hillary has a legion of pundits and pontificaters who wake up every morning hoping to fill their space or air time with something she did wrong, but it’s hard to find anyone out there doing Obama parodies, or calling him names, or questioning his masculinity, his competence, or his loyalty. Respected and not-so-respected journalists have turned the business of writing books attacking Hillary into a cottage industry, but with Obama, he writes his own books, tells the story his way, and with a little help from Oprah, is on the bestseller list with his memoirs, not ducking the books attacking him.

Nor is it a matter of race, at least if people are being half-honest. In any number of polls, the public, as well as Democrats, are asked if they’re ready for a black president or a woman president. And in every one, people are always more accepting of the idea of a black president than they are of the prospect of a woman in the top job. At least in terms of who should be president, sexism tops racism every time.

But then something curious happens. In the same polls, when the same people are asked whether they support Clinton or Obama, Hillary wins handily, beating her rival by as much as 20 points. What gives?

I have a simple answer. Actually, it’s not mine, but one I learned from my one-time rival, the late Lee Atwater, the legendary political operative who ran George Bush the elder’s campaign against my candidate, Michael Dukakis, back in 1988. Lee had a theory he told me after the election.

The way he described it, there’s a little boat and in it are the people Americans are willing to accept as qualified to be president. It doesn’t mean they like them, doesn’t mean they’d ever vote for them, but it means they have passed the essential test of being big enough and capable enough to be in the job. His theory, back then, was that George Bush, even when he was trailing Dukakis in the polls, was always in the boat. Dukakis, he believed, never was.

<------------snip----------------->

Barack Obama is a great first date. He is the smartest, freshest, most exciting new face to come along in politics in years. But he is a new face. It’s hard to forget that on 9/11, when Hillary was in the Senate, and Rudy was at Ground Zero, and Mitt Romney was governor of Massachusetts, Barack was in Springfield, Ill., serving as a state senator. He was right about the war in Iraq, as it turned out, but he wasn’t there, in the Senate, in the debate, in the place where it mattered.

He’s still a first date, and he’s not in the boat yet. He can’t really prove himself in the Senate. He’s hardly there, is junior on every committee, isn’t in charge of anything or able to put in the time to make anything happen. The place he has to prove himself is on the campaign. But that requires more than winning the money primary. He needs to prove to people that he belongs on that little boat, a place where Hillary is already sitting, and the former state senator has yet to climb in.

Ironically, he needs precisely the sort of confrontations he has yet to face, crises he has yet to endure, challenges he has yet to surmount, to prove that he is up to a promotion to the hardest job in the world.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,290311,00.html
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-22-07 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. I agree that he needs to be tested and he isn't being so far in the race. That
makes alot of sense.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-22-07 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. She makes a good point about the experience angle
Thanks for posting her words and not a video. Her voice is like fingernails going down a chalkboard for me.

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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-22-07 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. She might grate on some people but those same people know she
is tough as nails. She has had to endure more than your average person, but is still standing tall.

BTW, I am a Clarkie, but sadly, he's not running.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-22-07 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. No question
I admire her -- I just can't listen to her. :(
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-22-07 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. She's getting better at public speaking, but she still has a bit
of a monotone voice.
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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-23-07 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #14
25. I can't listen to her, either
She sounds like Carol Channing but doesn't
know the words to "Hello, Dolly"...
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-22-07 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
3. And I think this dynamic is amplified...
By the last 6 years under someone who did not have the experience, intelligence, patience, vision, or competence to handle the job...

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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-22-07 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
4. the only poll I'm believing are exit polls on primary day. I don't think
people give to Obama, but then cast a vote for Hillary.

Can't wait for the caucus/primary season.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-22-07 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I sure do
I don't think for one minute people who have paid $5 or $10 to get into an Obama event are locked in as Obama voters, yet they're counted in his donor rolls. Sometimes people just want to so see a big name Democrat for a cheap price.

I shelled out $300. to see John Edwards mainly because I have a mission to see all the candidates speak live this season.
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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-22-07 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. "I shelled out $300" - That's dedication. I'll stick with C-SPAN's
Road to the White House and candidates' websites.

Right now, I'm not giving any of them a dime.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-22-07 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Actually, it isn't...
I'm not a big fan of Edwards. He spoke at out State JJ Dinner and I went.
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Bullet1987 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-23-07 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
30. You know why...
I think Obama is getting a lot of support from younger voters. The younger voters who aren't usually polled or taken within the margin of error. If they actually come out and vote for him (since they gave money to his campaign) he'll handily (if that's a word) win.
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democratsin08 Donating Member (312 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-22-07 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
6. media
the media seems to give obama orgasmic coverage. its sad they have sided with him.
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ribrepin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-22-07 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
9. There's a nasty little internet campaign being run against Obama
Edited on Sun Jul-22-07 05:02 PM by ribrepin
My Dad's an old southerner and still has ties down there. I don't know if he's getting this from his brother in South Carolina or not, but I've been the recipient of some really awful stuff about Obama. The last one said that Obama attended a muslin school and is still a muslim. The implication was that an Obama government would be run out of Tehran.

I just delete the stuff because my father is not in good health, but this is some nasty stuff. My dad is an old Dixiecrat.

Edited to add...I sometimes wonder if I shouldn't send it to the Obama campaign so that they would know that this stuff is out there. I haven't seen this particular type of stuff mentioned elsewhere.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-22-07 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. That's not just in the South.
I heard Rush Limbaugh's replacement say it last week - and that's a national show.
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ribrepin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-22-07 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Didn't mean to imply that this was coming out of the south only
I just suspect my Dad is getting this stuff from his brother. If they are mentioning on Rush Limbaugh, it must be widely known. I hadn't heard it before.
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kikiek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-23-07 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #19
31. And Snopes has it on their site as false. Send him this link. Most crap is on there.
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-22-07 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
10. There are times when a lack of "experience" will trump experience...
particularly when the experience has been shown to be bad. Unfortunately, people did not look closely enough at bush's "experience", as it is an utter disaster from the time he left home. But w/Obama, it is seen differently...a lack of DC experience is a "good" thing, as if he has become poison yet...:)

I have a long time before I back any of the candidates...far too much time left, and almost anyone can jump in or out and change the dynamic; but it is nice to see something besides the usual sniper fire.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-22-07 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
11. I agree totally with the OP,
The word for it all is "GRAVITAS"... Hillary can bring it, when it counts!

Obama has yet to find that certain something to bring to- to Win!
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-23-07 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #11
24. I do think Obama has one foot in the boat.
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-22-07 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
12. In the end, Edwards and Obama feel like lightweights, and
Hillary does not
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TeamJordan23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-22-07 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
15. Hmm...Didn't she come out with a book called "The Case for Hillary Clinton".....hmm
so is this really surprising coming out of her mouth? :rofl:
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maximusveritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-22-07 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Yep, that's why I take these pundits' opinions with a grain of salt
They try to pretend they're nonpartisan, but they almost always have their personal favorite candidate and that affects their analyis. In Estrich's case, this is what she had to say in her book for Hillary:

"She has become a symbol of all of us, of our generation of women," Estrich writes. "She wins, we win. She loses, we lose. That's how it works."

Hmm, do you think she wants Hillary to win? I can't tell.
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Grandrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-22-07 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
17. Whatever!!!
Killing him softly with kindness? I think this is that same old stereotype that Black people have to be twice as good! How long had Clinton and Edwards been in the Senate and voted for war?
Any excuse....beats no excuse at all!!!:eyes:
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-23-07 06:41 AM
Response to Original message
21. She is right. It is a factor
Over time a new face may win entry onto that boat through his or her rock solid performance under the pressure of a presidential race, and sometimes the public will take a chance on someone who they don't perceive as being in that boat if they have enough strong misgivings about those who they do see fitting on it, but I believe she is right. Edwdards and Obama have yet to seal that deal with the public, though they still have time to do so. Clinton already has. Being on that boat isn't the whole story, but it is a factor. Dick Cheney was once seen as belonging in that boat also, but that doesn't mean the public ever would have been willing to turn the country over to him. Still, in 2000, Cheney and Powell, two men who seemed to belong in that boat, were part of the package that helped some voters support George W. Bush, a man who clearly did not fit in that boat.

It is one of the reasons why I want Al Gore and/or Wes Clark in the race. Either one could captain any boat.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-23-07 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
22. Three main assessments that are flawed
First, Obama is MORE experienced that Clinton from a legislative standpoint. He has 8 years as a State Senator and 3 years as a Senator. Clinton has 7 years as a Senator and as First Lady, there is no legislative experience unless you include the year she tried to change healthcare with disastrous results.

Second, there are plenty of people trying to derail Obama with trivial stories or even use RNC talking point sheets to firebomb various blogs. You've seen them here on DU. It's not just about "poor little Hillary", although the Republican Party wants her as the nominee for good reason.

Third, Obama did speak out against the war from the beginning AND he did it at a time when it was not politically expedient to do so in 2002. To say that he might have changed his opinion that it was a "dumb war" if he was in the Senate is dishonest.

Estrich worked for the Clintons and works for Murdoch, who has backed Clinton with fundraisers. Of course, these major flaws in her "argument" would be there.


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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-23-07 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. C'mon, we've covered this before
First, Obama is MORE experienced that Clinton from a legislative standpoint.

The Presidency isn't a legislative job.

He has 8 years as a State Senator and 3 years as a Senator. Clinton has 7 years as a Senator and as First Lady, there is no legislative experience unless you include the year she tried to change healthcare with disastrous results.

It has been shown on DU more than once that Hillary Clinton took on major policy crafting roles in the White House. Former White House staffers and even Republicans admit this.

Second, there are plenty of people trying to derail Obama with trivial stories or even use RNC talking point sheets to firebomb various blogs.

Anything gained traction with the national media?

You've seen them here on DU.

No, you've seen critics on DU, same as Clinton critics, Edwards critics, etc.

It's not just about "poor little Hillary", although the Republican Party wants her as the nominee for good reason.

Pure truthiness.


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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-23-07 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. If a President signs legislation and participates in its formation...
...is it not part of the legislative process?

You mention that Senator Clinton participated in crafting roles of policy as a First Lady. Does that count? What legislation was it, besides the failed attempt at healthcare reform? NAFTA?

I have to tell you that a First Lady does not count as legislative experience. Better yet, do you think that is a role a First Lady should have?

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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-23-07 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. by that logic, I'm involved in the legislative process if I vote on a law...
... but, now, the President crafts policy and/or signs it into law. You can make the case it's part of the legislative process but then the case could be made for just about anything in that respect.

You mention that Senator Clinton participated in crafting roles of policy as a First Lady. Does that count?

Of course it does. You give her credit for the failed attempt at healthcare, why wouldn't her successes count, too?

What legislation was it, besides the failed attempt at healthcare reform? NAFTA?

Why mention NAFTA? What did she have to do with NAFTA? Are we dealing in facts here? Is your line of reasoning Hillary gets the blame for legislation you dislike but doesn't get credit for good stuff?? WOW!

The Clinton administration program to guarantee free immunizations for poor and uninsured children, passed in 1993, was drafted in Hillary's office under her supervision. Hillary had a large part in the development of the Corporation for National Service, the Clinton administration's domestic version of the Peace Corps.

She helped to initiate and promote the Children's Health Insurance Program, created by Congress in 1997 to provide $24 billion over five years to states to insure children. She helped to write bills on adoption and foster care, and lobbied for them.

'I don't think that the Endowment would be alive today if it weren't for strong White House support, and I'm sure she plays a very important role,'' said Jane Alexander, chairman of the National Endowment for the Arts.

At the Agency for International Development, Brian Atwood, the administrator, said of Mrs. Clinton's grasp of complex development issues: ''She understands these issues better than 90 percent of the people who operate within the foreign policy community.''

Mrs. Clinton has been working with A.I.D. to import to inner cities lessons learned abroad, on child immunization, for example, and inexpensive techniques to combat diarrhea. She has taken a particularly strong interest in ''microenterprise lending,'' or efforts in developing nations and troubled cities to lend small amounts of money for new businesses, often run by women.

It is no coincidence, Mr. Atwood said, that the Administration is seeking to slightly increase the budget for A.I.D. next year. ''She deserves more credit for that,'' he said, ''than anyone.''

I have to tell you that a First Lady does not count as legislative experience.

And I have to tell you again that the job of the presidency is not a legislative one. Hillary's role as first lady, as you just read, went far beyond the norm. She crafted policy and then lobbied for it to be passed.


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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-23-07 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
28. boat twaddle


that was then, this is now. the boat is in the boatyard getting it's bottom redone.

the article is just noise
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-23-07 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
29. um
>it’s hard to find anyone out there doing Obama parodies, or calling him names, or questioning his masculinity, his competence, >or his loyalty.

barack the magic negro?

obama osama obama osama...

barack HUSSEIN obama...

dat there osama fellow grew up in a madrassa!!

I guess those must be figments of our imagination...
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