Just so you know... Here is why Income Tax is legally collected in the US...

[WCGreen]

Amendment 16 - Status of Income Tax Clarified. Ratified 2/3/1913. Note History

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.


It's in the Constitution....


These Tax avoiders are ridiculous when they state there is no law compelling people to pay Income Tax...


It's in the Constitution...

[BrokenBeyondRepair]

1. didn't it fall short of the states needed to ratify?

by 4 or something..

[WCGreen]

2. It's in the Constitution....

It's the 16th Amendment...

[BrokenBeyondRepair]

11. i know that. it's an amendment.. the 16th

but was it legally ratified?

There is a convincing case that the 16th amendment was not legally ratified and that Secretary of State Philander Knox was not merely in error, but committed fraud when he declared it ratified in February 1913.

Knox had received responses from 42 states when he declared the 16th amendment ratified on February 25, 1913

Utah, Conn, R.I. and N.H. rejected it, leaving only 38 states..

Attorneys who have studied the subject have agreed that Kentucky and Oklahoma should not have been counted as approvals by Philander Knox, and, moreover, if any state could be shown to have violated its own state constitution or laws in its approval process, then that state's approval would have to be thrown out.

this leaves 36 ...3/4s of the states at the time.

The state constitution of Tennessee prohibited the state legislature from acting on any proposed amendment to the U.S. Constitution sent by Congress until after the next election of state legislators.

Mississippi, Ohio, Arkansas, Minnesota, New Mexico, West Virginia, Indiana, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Colorado, and Illinois also violated provisions of their constitution when ratifying this amendment.

[WCGreen]

22. That is a specious argument at best and here is why...

Congress passed the Amendment on July 12, 1909 and it was sent to the states at that time...

It was not ratified until February 3rd, 1913...

New legislative sessions are created every two years in the state capitals...

In order to prove that it was against the state constitutions, you would have to see when the States in question ratified the Amendment...

If all the states in question ratified after Jan 1, 1911, then they would have been in compliance with their constitutions...

The Amendment was sent to the states during the 09-10 legislative session...

A new legislature would be created in the 1910 State elections...

I don't know for a fact, but I would wager money that the Constitutionality of the actions taken by the states would have been settled at the time...

I think the people giving you this information are presenting a what if scenario with out providing the detail...

Show me that the states in question ratified the Amendment illegally as set forth by their states Constitution and we might have a different conversation....

But as of now, I think it's all the Free Masons fault anyway...

[BrokenBeyondRepair]

23. it should be easy to verify; maybe one day it will be..

until then i'll continue to never give any government the benefit of doubt.

[MonkeyFunk]

4. No

it was ultimately ratified by 42 states, 6 more than necessary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Ratification_process

[percussivemadness]

7. with all due respect

wiki is hardly a relaible source of information

peace

[MonkeyFunk]

18. Then go to the source document

that is provided in the Wiki link - the US Govt. Printing Office.


http://www.gpoaccess.gov/constitution/html/conamt.html


sheesh...

[BrokenBeyondRepair]

12. wiki?

[MonkeyFunk]

19. yeah

it provides a source document.

[BrokenBeyondRepair]

20. how is that doc proof of ratification? it's a question of legality

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. That's what I thought!

I thought those people were crazy to state they didn't have to pay any income tax...

Thanks for bringing a clear answer to this question!

[WCGreen]

5. There were a whole mess of confusing laws enacted in the

time period between the Civil War and the turn of the Century that these anti-tax activists rely upon to make their arguments legit...

However the 16th Amendment clarified it by getting rid of the apportionment clause which stated the states owe money to the Fed's in line with the population...

So states had to raise the money based on population and not on individuals...

Now, after the 16th Amendment, it's the individuals who are responsible for the tax and not the state...

[BrokenBeyondRepair]

14. it is an amendment that is enforced..

not paying probably isn't the smartest thing to do.

the question is whether the amendment itself was legally ratified..

[percussivemadness]

6. the 16th amendment was never ratified

the question as to whether taxes are a social responsibility that we all have a moral responsibility to undertakle, is another issue, however, the 16th amendment was not ratified - This is a good article http://www.givemeliberty.org/features/taxes/notratified.htm

peace

[geek tragedy]

8. Yes, just like the moon is made of green cheese. eom

[percussivemadness]

9. and there were WMDS in Iraq

Peace

[WCGreen]

10. Just so you don't make a fool of yourself....

16th Amendment

In 1895, in the Supreme Court case of Pollock v Farmer's Loan and Trust (157 U.S. 429), the Court disallowed a federal tax on income from real property. The tax was designed to be an indirect tax, which would mean that states need not contribute portions of a whole relative to its census figures. The Court, however, ruled that the tax was a direct tax and subject to apportionment. This was the last in a series of conflicting court decisions dating back to the Civil War. Between 1895 and 1909, when the amendment was passed by Congress, the Court began to back down on its position, as it became clear not only to accountants but to everyone that the solvency of the nation was in jeopardy. In a series of cases, the definition of "direct tax" was modified, bent, twisted, and coaxed to allow more taxation efforts that approached an income tax.

Finally, with the ratification of the 16th Amendment, any doubt was removed. The text of the Amendment makes it clear that though the categories of direct and indirect taxation still exist, any determination that income tax is a direct tax will be irrelevant, because taxes on incomes, from salary or from real estate, are explicitly to be treated as indirect. The Congress passed the Amendment on July 12, 1909, and it was ratified on February 3, 1913 (1,302 days).

[percussivemadness]

13. not trying to make a fool of myself

So you know where I stand, I believe taxation is a social responsibility that all members of society have a moral obligation to pay.

The original post was that the 16th amendment was ratified, there appears to be some doubt over that.

As you do appear to be quite knowledgeable, perhaps you could refute this article for me http://www.supremelaw.org/sls/31answers.htm

Peace

[BrokenBeyondRepair]

15. taxation w/ representation and transparency

i'm all for it..

[percussivemadness]

16. agreed

peace

[jmp]

17. That is a nutters argument.

The fact is that the 16th Amendment was ratified, and is as clear as a bell ...

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

There is no doubt ... only tax cheats fabricating justifications and the gullible.

[WCGreen]

21. All I have to point to is this....

16th Amendment

In 1913, Wyoming ratified the 16th Amendment, providing the three-quarter majority of states necessary to amend the Constitution. The 16th Amendment gave Congress the authority to enact an income tax. That same year, the first Form 1040 appeared after Congress levied a 1 percent tax on net personal incomes above $3,000 with a 6 percent surtax on incomes of more than $500,000.

In 1918, during World War I, the top rate of the income tax rose to 77 percent to help finance the war effort. It dropped sharply in the post-war years, down to 24 percent in 1929, and rose again during the Depression. During World War II, Congress introduced payroll withholding and quarterly tax payments.


The Tax Code, which the IRS collects and also enforces, originates in the Congress...

The Tax Code was created and is edited and ammended by the House and Senate...