MalloyLiberal
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Mon Jul-23-07 10:34 PM
Original message |
I call out liars when I see them...... |
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John Edwards came out very clear and said he does not support gay marriage.
So people bash him.
So let's see who else does not support gay marriage. Notice how Obama bullshitted his answer and did not give a Yes on MARRIAGE.
Who supports it?
Kucinich.
Gravel.
Who else?
...... Clinton? NO. Obama? NO Dodd? NO Biden? NO Richardson? NO
Guess that rules out everyone but Kuicnich and Gravel.
Stop attacking Edwards when YOUR candidate (this is not the Dennis Kucinich Fan Club, not everyone here loves him) does NOT Support gay marriage. Because they don't, no matter what bullshit they spew.
They don't.
Edwards for Pres.
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babylonsister
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Mon Jul-23-07 10:39 PM
Response to Original message |
1. I SUPPORT gay unions, marriage, whatever it takes. You support |
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Edwards because he's not convinced? :shrug:
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Name removed
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Mon Jul-23-07 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
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Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
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saltpoint
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Mon Jul-23-07 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
5. babylonsister has brought me into many clearings flooded with |
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light, insight, and great company.
I resent your calling her names. You should apologize.
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JeffR
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Mon Jul-23-07 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
8. Don't hold your breath on that, OC |
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From the way he comports himself, his handle ought to be SchultzLiberal.
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saltpoint
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Mon Jul-23-07 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
10. Jesus. I'm thinking we ought to be sticking together more than we |
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occasionally do.
I'm not shy at all with coarse talk, but let's save it for the Rethugs.
Howdy, Jeff. Nice to see ya on DU as always.
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JeffR
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Mon Jul-23-07 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
12. Hey there. Seems like a good night to be a Democrat to me |
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apparently there are those who want to use everything as an opportunity to scream louder. :shrug:
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saltpoint
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Mon Jul-23-07 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
14. Good person, I'm with ya. The bluer the better. |
MalloyLiberal
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Mon Jul-23-07 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
9. I don't like people distorting what JRE said |
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He said it very clearly with recordings.
HE SUPPORTS FUCKING CIVIL UNIONS. GRASP THAT YET?
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saltpoint
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Mon Jul-23-07 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
11. babylonsister is one of THE most astute DUers you're going to |
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bump into.
She is owed both respect for that contribution and courtesy from all of us.
Re Edwards: I'm quite solidly in his camp already.
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JeffR
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Mon Jul-23-07 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
7. That's a charming bedside manner you have there, doctor |
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Way to win people over to your candidate. Nice to know it's not just HRC supporters who can act like prime jackasses in their advocacy...
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theredpen
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Mon Jul-23-07 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
15. Separation of Church and State |
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We should separate Church and State by giving everyone the right to a civil union (regardless of genitalia) and leave marriage as purely religious. That way, two Catholic guys can get a civil union and enjoy the same rights as every other legally bound couple even though their Church won't recognize them as "married."
This would actually make it easier on liberal Catholic churches, because they can recognize committed couples without having to violate the Magesterium of the Church. (Whether that's OK with the gay parishioners is up to them.)
The bottom line is that by separating these two types of union, you no longer have to argue with people who say, "marriage is between a man and a woman." It would no longer matter what the definition of "marriage" is; everyone wishing the legal status could get it. I really think this could work, because I've actually heard some "defense of marriage people" concede to "civil unions" with the same legal rights. Hanging on to the "M" word entails decades of battle with religious extremists that could be side-stepped with a split between civil and religious unions.
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poverlay
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Mon Jul-23-07 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
16. Totally uncalled for. A lot of people might deserve your derision. I am sure Babylonsister is not |
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Edited on Mon Jul-23-07 11:18 PM by poverlay
one of them. We don't need to talk to each other like that. That's for Republicans.
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babylonsister
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Mon Jul-23-07 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
17. I have to tell you , a whole lot of thanks to my buddies, and you know who |
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you are. And also, to new friends!
:hug: :hug: :hug:
:toast:
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saltpoint
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Mon Jul-23-07 10:47 PM
Response to Original message |
3. Quite a bit of the country is now on board on LGBTQ issues. Not everybody, |
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Edited on Mon Jul-23-07 11:22 PM by Old Crusoe
but quite a few more than a few years ago, and I assure you, quite a HELL of a lot more than when I was growing up way back when.
By citing the upward trend, I'm in defiance of fundies, who would surely describe it as a downward trend.
But the difference between my position and theirs is that I'm right and they're wrong.
!
Back to the trend -- the upward trend. I want the world to be configured in exactly the way I want it, and especially I want its political profile to match my specific demands. Now. In the OFF-CHANCE that I don't have that scenario realized, I'm left to navigate in the world as it is, and all we can do with good causes -- and there are many of them -- is fight the good fight.
By degree, we win victories. Some are as local as your local high school prom and others are as global as world-wide human rights initiatives. I think they're the same movement and I think they help the same people.
True enough that not all our candidates are as clear or as vocal as we might prefer, but set any of them next to Sam Brownback or Mike Huckabee or Duncan Hunter and the ghost of Jesse Helms appears. You scientists will scoff at that idea of a visible apparition over the far-right Republicans.
But I've seen it. And the truer path is to vote against the party from whose grave it arose.
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MalloyLiberal
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Mon Jul-23-07 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
4. Edwards made very clear he supports civil unions |
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Everyone on that stage would say that.
He just was honest rather than pandering like the other candidates about it that he doesn't support "Marriage".
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MalloyLiberal
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Mon Jul-23-07 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
6. only other honest person was Dodd |
still_one
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Mon Jul-23-07 11:05 PM
Response to Original message |
13. The truth is they are afraid to say yes because IT WILL HURT them in the election |
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Like it or not this country is homophobic, racist, sexist, and a broad spectrum of unfavorable characteristics
But lets also get real, what is the MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE FACING US NOW
Is it gay marriage?
No.
Its the Iraq War, jobs, our debt, healthcare, education, and a wealth of other issues that will affect people regardless of their race, gender, or sexual orientation
Yes, prejudice because of race, gender, or sexual orientation is important and must be dealt with, but when the house is on fire, that this should be at the top of the list amazes me
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TankLV
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Mon Jul-23-07 11:19 PM
Response to Original message |
18. Fuck Edwards - AND Obama... |
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The "my candidate's a slimeball - but look over THERE - the OTHERS are slimeballs too!" doesn't win my vote for Edwards.
Sorry, you lose....
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saltpoint
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Mon Jul-23-07 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #18 |
19. I'm pretty sure they're both married. |
TankLV
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Tue Jul-24-07 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #19 |
32. I have no use for bigots and their supporters and excusers - like you... |
saltpoint
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Wed Jul-25-07 04:12 AM
Response to Reply #32 |
34. O I've been lost before already, Tank. But I like my candidate. |
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I like all our Democrats pretty well, in fact.
And plan to vote accordingly.
Hope that's not a grievous disappointment for ya.
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays.
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Name removed
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Sat Aug-04-07 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #34 |
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Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
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saltpoint
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Sat Aug-04-07 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #36 |
38. Quite a tongue ya got there. The Nazi smear is nice, too. |
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Discourse doesn't seem to be your long suit.
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NanceGreggs
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Mon Jul-23-07 11:23 PM
Response to Original message |
20. You have been asked several times now, and very nicely ... |
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... to apologize to BabylonSister.
I am also asking, very nicely, for that apology to be rendered. Your remark was completely uncalled for - not to mention crude and downright childish.
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babylonsister
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Tue Jul-24-07 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #20 |
21. Thank you but it's okay. We shall see . |
Milo_Bloom
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Tue Jul-24-07 01:35 AM
Response to Original message |
22. Its what Edwards said and what it means. |
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"do I personally support gay marriage?
The honest answer to that is I don't."
He makes a judgment call based on his pandering to the "faith" crowd. If he truly believes what he said there, than it is even MORE frightening, because he lets a book of fairy tales tell him what to believe.
To draw a contrast to what Obama said, he didn't offer his own personal judgment of other people. Instead he made it clear that the government needs to recognize the equal rights of people. He also said that he wouldn't force a CHURCH to recognize a marriage if the CHURCH chooses not to, which is already the way it is in reality, as some churches don't "allow" divorced people to get remarried, but they do anyway.
What is further disturbing in Edwards' answer is that he didn't say he wouldn't allow states to ban civil unions, where Obama made it clear that all people MUST be treated equally by the government.
Its kinda like a President saying, "I don't believe in women having a choice, and I don't think the president should have a say in that"... which is code for let them decide it at the state level... which would overturn roe v wade.
In Obama's answer, a state can't ban civil unions, b/c he recognizes the rights under the constitution. In Edwards' answer, the states can ban away and he, as president, won't do a damn thing about it.
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MalloyLiberal
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Tue Jul-24-07 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #22 |
24. Actually Edwards made it clear |
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He would not support discrimination of any sort. Or any such type of ban. Get the potatoes out of your ears.
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Milo_Bloom
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Tue Jul-24-07 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #24 |
25. It doesn't need HIS support, THAT is the problem. |
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EDWARDS: I think Reverend Longcrier asks a very important question, which is whether fundamentally -- whether it's right for any of our faith beliefs to be imposed on the American people when we're president of the United States. I do not believe that's right.
I feel enormous personal conflict about this issue. I want to end discrimination. I want to do some of the things that I just heard Bill Richardson talking about -- standing up for equal rights, substantive rights, civil unions, the thing that Chris Dodd just talked about. But I think that's something everybody on this stage will commit themselves to as president of the United States.
But I personally have been on a journey on this issue. I feel enormous conflict about it. As I think a lot of people know, Elizabeth spoke -- my wife Elizabeth spoke out a few weeks ago, and she actually supports gay marriage. I do not. But this is a very, very difficult issue for me. And I recognize and have enormous respect for people who have a different view of it.
Forgetting the obvious idiocy of his "personally not supporting it" (as if that is a call he has the right to make)... I again call attention to the fact that he doesn't really offer a plan (like much of his campaign), but he will just "stand up for equal rights". What does that mean? If the president isn't going to take action, then it is left up to the states.. that is the way our system works and that is what he said here.
So take the blinders off, listen to /read what he said and THEN try and put a thought together... it obviously didn't take the first time.
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MalloyLiberal
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Tue Jul-24-07 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #25 |
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He would not allow people to discriminate. You left that part of the transcript out.
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Milo_Bloom
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Tue Jul-24-07 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #29 |
31. No, I copied the whole thing. |
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Please read more carefully.
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rufus dog
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Tue Jul-24-07 02:00 AM
Response to Original message |
23. Malloy Lib - were you listening to Malloy when you went off? |
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Couple of things, Obama didn't give a BS answer, he said he supports equal rights but it is for each church to decide the gay marriage issue. Very clear, almost the exact same position to Edwards. (not my position by fine, they were both clear) I give them both credit for being clear as was Kucinich.
Finally, I know you are a big Malloy fan hence the question if you were listening to him tonight and got fired up. Sometimes his style is over the top and too fucking angry.
And I will save you the typing ... Fuck you Rufus Dog!
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Milo_Bloom
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Tue Jul-24-07 02:31 AM
Response to Reply #23 |
26. One quick correction. |
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"Couple of things, Obama didn't give a BS answer, he said he supports equal rights but it is for each church to decide the gay marriage issue. Very clear, almost the exact same position to Edwards. (not my position by fine, they were both clear) I give them both credit for being clear as was Kucinich."
Obama actually took the step Edwards is too cowardly to take (or just too pandering to the faith based crew).. Obama made it clear that GOVERNMENT should not interfere in these rights
From the debate, Obama, "And the civil unions that I proposed would be equivalent in terms of making sure that all the rights that are conferred by the state are equal for same-sex couples as well as for heterosexual couples.
Now, with respect to marriage, it's my belief that it's up to the individual denominations to make a decision as to whether they want to recognize marriage or not. But in terms of, you know, the rights of people to transfer property, to have hospital visitation, all those critical civil rights that are conferred by our government, those should be equal."
Obama makes an important distinction that Edwards doesn't... he is going to get involved and make sure GOVERNMENT doesn't infringe on rights. Edwards simply promises that he won't stop civil unions, despite the fact that he is personally against it... that is a HUGE distinction, in which Edwards' allows states to pass anti-civil unions bills, where Obama's position does not allow such things.. Obama simply seperates CHURCH and STATE, saying that he can't force a particular CHURCH or DENOMINATION to "marry" people, that is up to them.
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rufus dog
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Tue Jul-24-07 03:43 AM
Response to Reply #26 |
27. You are absolutely correct |
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I read your post after I posted and stand corrected. I gave Edwards the benefit of the doubt that he meant the same thing as Obama, but after reading your post I clearly see that he left himself adequate wiggle room. Fool me once!
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MalloyLiberal
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Tue Jul-24-07 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #26 |
30. No, he made some bullshit argument about churches |
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Edwards has said repeatedly he would not interfere with it.
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Hippo_Tron
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Tue Jul-24-07 03:56 AM
Response to Original message |
28. The sad part is that they all probably support gay marriage yet they won't admit it |
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It's extremely hard to believe that when an overwhelming majority of registered Democrats are pro gay marriage, that almost all of the people we elect to high offices are against gay marriage.
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Hollow Shells
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Tue Jul-24-07 12:45 PM
Response to Original message |
33. Edwards is homophobic. |
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A vote for Edwards is a vote for homophobia. This may apply to others as well, such as Obama. Supporting homophobic candidates means supporting homophobia.
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TankLV
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Sat Aug-04-07 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #33 |
37. Such a simple and easily understood concept...except for the apologists and enablers... |
saltpoint
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Sat Aug-04-07 03:19 AM
Response to Original message |
35. Your response to DUer babylonsister in this thread is the same tone |
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Edited on Sat Aug-04-07 03:20 AM by Old Crusoe
you are using in the current thread 08/04/07 re Landrieu et al.
Note that it was deleted.
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