Obama says Clinton "fabricates controversy," calls IWR vote "naive"

[BeyondGeography]

BREAKING NEWS: (Updated 2:16 p.m.) In separate interviews with the Quad-City Times today, Democratic presidential hopefuls Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama tangled over Obama’s statement at the YouTube debate Monday that he would be willing to meet in the first year of his presidency with the leaders of countries antagonistic to the United States.

Clinton called Obama’s comments “irresponsible” and “naive.”

Obama countered by accusing the Clinton campaign of hatching a “fabricated controversy” and suggested that her position put her on the same track as the Bush administration.

...He likened the position to a continuation of the Bush administration diplomatic policies. And he said what was “irresponsible and naive” was voting to authorize the Iraq War.

http://www.qctimes.com/articles/2007/07/24/news/local/doc46a635f210af5541045687.txt

[Forkboy]

1. ...

:popcorn:

[Cha]

24. Good idea!

:popcorn: :popcorn:

[LWolf]

42. I'll join you.

The best case scenario? They'll battle to the death of both campaigns, taking each other out of the running.

:popcorn:

[William769]

2. Looks like he's doing the following now.

:rofl:

[Ethelk2044]

43. NO She is doing the Flip Flopping

http://wcbstv.com/topstories/local_story_112220939.html

(CBS/AP) DECORAH, Iowa Hillary Rodham Clinton on Sunday criticized President Bush's foreign policy, and said if she were president she would do things differently, including beginning diplomatic talks with supposed enemies and sending envoys throughout the world.

"I would begin diplomatic discussions with those countries with whom we have differences, to try to figure out what is the depth of those differences," said Clinton, who spoke to about 1,000 people at Luther College in Decorah in northeastern Iowa.

"I think it is a terrible mistake for our president to say he will not talk with bad people. You don't make peace with your friends -- you have to do the hard work of dealing with people you don't agree with," said Clinton, who is seeking the Democratic presidential nomination.

Opening talks with other countries doesn't mean the U.S. won't defend its interests whenever necessary, she said, "but what it means is that we should discuss other routes before we decide we're going to pursue military options.

"We cannot provide the leadership we need unless we are willing to try engage the other countries," she said,

[Skip Intro]

3. I think they're both right.

that's all...

[quinnox]

4. Its on!

Finally they are actually attacking each other. But still not so much on tv in the debates.
I have to admit this race has been kind of boring up to here, but maybe the gloves are coming off!

[wyldwolf]

5. that's politics.

But I predict there's going to come a time real soon when the IWR card finally loses what effectiveness it has left.

[killbotfactory]

6. Yeah, what's a million or so people dead because of the IWR

Who cares?

[Alexander]

19. The Hillarybots consider the IWR in political terms, not moral ones.

So the thousands upon thousands of dead due to this stupid war makes absolutely no difference to them.

Why bother with discussing concepts like right and wrong when you can triangulate your way out of it?

[killbotfactory]

I've noticed the same attitude amongst people defending our healthcare system

18,000 people a year die due to lack of health insurance, and they are all invisible to people who defend our healthcare system.

Out of sight, out of mind, I guess.

[SaveElmer]

7. From what I've seen...it already has...nt

[William769]

9. Agreed!

Thats why Hillary is ahead everywhere.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

22. The IWR card lost its magic in Iowa in 2004 as IWR voters finished 1-2-4

[wyldwolf]

33. huh! Excellent point

[tularetom]

8. On this exchange, advantage Obama

Clinton's vote on the Iraq War Resolution DID appear "irresponsible and naive", although I suspect she was merely trying to show how "tough" she was. She's still trying to do that by refusing to acknowledge her mistake.

Doesn't that sound a bit like the MO of the assbite that got us into this mess in the first place? Do we need four more years of this kind of attitude?

I don't care if Hillary feels she needs to prove she has big cojones, but I wish she'd train a bit more of her indignation on bush and the refucklickans.

[Cha]

31. "refucklickans"..

He shoots, he Scores!

[bling bling]

10. I like seeing Obama hit back, and fast.

This is actually good practice for both of them. Whoever is the nominee will need to hone the skill of biting back, and *hard*.

[Cha]

32. That was a very diplomatic

thing to say..Just like I think Obama would be when he talks to those Heads of State who are "antagonistic to the US".

[SaveElmer]

11. Obama is trying to wiggle his way out of a blunder...

By shifting the focus...

Problem is he is shifting the focus to something Democratic voters have already made a judgment about...

[Mojorabbit]

16. No, it was she who made the blunder in my opinion

We need to make up with almost the entire planet for what this administration has done. Esp with climate change and peak oil coming up. I don't wan't another person who wouldn't want to speak with "evildoers".

[SaveElmer]

18. If you ignore what she said last night...

And ignore what she said previously you can reach that conclusion...

[beachmom]

17. There was no blunder. I listened to it on NPR this morning.

She's talking in a right wing way. Major turnoff. I agreed with Obama's answer. Of course, we will talk with other countries.

[zulchzulu]

27. Don't worry...there's more... Team Clinton has seen nothing yet

I'd start sandbagging the place, Team Clinton. There is going to be a flood.

[laugle]

46. Let's face it, Obama's answer

had "rookie" written all over it!

He did sound naive regarding the complexities of foreign policy diplomacy. However, Hillary's comment on it being "irresponsible" was just a tad too much.........

[AtomicKitten]

12. let's get ready to rumble

[JTFrog]

13. Naive is fronting for Bush's

war. Naive is fronting for your husband's infidelities. She made appearances in support of both cases. In fact she made several appearances upholding Bill's denial of wrongdoing claiming it was all a right-wing conspiracy against the president.

Who the hell is really naive?

[rinsd]

30. Is constantly bringing up the Clinton's marriage regardless of context the new Obama TP?

Because you guys all seem on message with it.

[JTFrog]

37. The topic was about calling someone "naive".

How was my post not on topic?

And what makes you think Obama is my candidate? He's definitely on my list above Hillary, but then so is every other dem candidate.

[JTFrog]

47. Funny but don't you always bring up the Clinton's marriage

when you're talking about her experience. I think that experience goes both ways don't it. She's got plenty of experience of being duped by men and lying about it.

[JANdad]

39. Was it naive

When Obama was snorting coke as a teeager...if we are going back to ancient history and all...

[Ethelk2044]

14. Hillary Said the same thing about Bush

http://wcbstv.com/topstories/local_story_112220939.html

(CBS/AP) DECORAH, Iowa Hillary Rodham Clinton on Sunday criticized President Bush's foreign policy, and said if she were president she would do things differently, including beginning diplomatic talks with supposed enemies and sending envoys throughout the world.

"I would begin diplomatic discussions with those countries with whom we have differences, to try to figure out what is the depth of those differences," said Clinton, who spoke to about 1,000 people at Luther College in Decorah in northeastern Iowa.

"I think it is a terrible mistake for our president to say he will not talk with bad people. You don't make peace with your friends -- you have to do the hard work of dealing with people you don't agree with," said Clinton, who is seeking the Democratic presidential nomination.

Opening talks with other countries doesn't mean the U.S. won't defend its interests whenever necessary, she said, "but what it means is that we should discuss other routes before we decide we're going to pursue military options.

"We cannot provide the leadership we need unless we are willing to try engage the other countries," she said,

[bling bling]

15. Wow. I don't even know what to say about that yet. Thanks. n/t

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

29. Ya say "Game. Set. Match."

Eta:

It was only 3 months ago for cripes sake. Lousy politicking. :thumbsdown:

[Cha]

34. Did she get her

signals mixed up?

[illinoisprogressive]

20. he's right. She feels she must be acting foolish about something to get on the news

[draft_mario_cuomo]

21. Tough words from two candidates who just a few hours ago were playing nice before the cameras

It is amusing how these two refuse to take each other on during debates when the other is in the same room but talk tough when they are out on the campaign trail...

[quinnox]

23. hey this might help Edwards

If this struggle between Hillary and Obama escalates into something nasty as time goes on Edwards might start looking better to Dems and move up in the polling.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

25. I agree. This is what happened with Dean and Gephardt in Iowa in 2003-04

This is why being in 3rd right now is not a bad place. Edwards is close enough to Obama to remain relevant but far enough to not be included in the HRC-BO squabbles. The top two will eventually have to battle each other, unless one is running for VP and it is clear Obama is in this to win. It looks like this may begin earlier than expected. If they continue to bloody each other over the next 6 months it will weaken both of them and would open the door for Edwards, like the Dean-Gephardt war in Iowa did last time for Kerry and Edwards.

It was interesting that Obama was directly attacked as much, if not more than HRC last night. Gravel and Kucinich really went after him, and Kucinich attacked Obama's main selling point, the IWR, by pointing out that Obama has voted to fund the war repeatedly in an attempt to (correctly) cast himself as the only true, consistent anti-war candidate in the race.

[BeyondGeography]

28. Or it might crowd him out further

Edwards was getting some good press for his perfomrance last night but this dispute looks to be moving to center stage.

[jefferson_dem]

26. Right on!

Thank you, Senator, for setting things into proportion.

The gall of Hillary to call a single comment (one that reflects the very same sentiment that she herself uttered just a few months ago) "irresponsible" and "naive"

...when she voted for and promoted the single biggest foreign policy clusterfuck in our nation's history.

[killbotfactory]

35. What Obama is referring to is this thing called "diplomacy"

We used to be fans of it back in the days before Bush.

[Milo_Bloom]

36. Clear win to Obama on this one.

The IWR will be the issue that decides this election. The fact that Clinton left herself open to that is a little surprising.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

40. Ask President Dean how far the IWR gets you

;)

[Milo_Bloom]

41. Pretty far actually.

And that was before the tide turned.

The IWR voting dems don't stand a chance in this next election.

[Colobo]

38. Obama, now is the time to kick that ass!

[Bullet1987]

44. Obama wins this exchange...even Tucker had to admit she left herself open

on that.

ROUND 1 goes to OBAMA!!!

[maximusveritas]

45. Obama is 100% right. Hillary's position on this

makes me like her much less than before. I had just started to like her more and more, but now she's blown it. Listening to these "experienced" people (who all just happened to support the war in Iraq) say that meeting with our enemies is "naive" just pisses me off. I'm sure these same people would have called Obama naive for opposing the war. I'm tired of listening to them tell us what the proper and responsible thing to do is.