Flip Flop of the Day: Political Wire

[illinoisprogressive]

I thought that was irresponsible and frankly naive... I don’t want to be used for propaganda purposes."

-- Sen. Hillary Clinton, in an interview earlier today with the Quad City Times, criticizing Sen. Barack Obama's statement last night that as president he would meet with "the leaders of several countries antagonistic to the United States."

"I would begin diplomatic discussions with those countries with whom we have differences, to try to figure out what is the depth of those differences. I think it is a terrible mistake for our president to say he will not talk with bad people. You don't make peace with your friends -- you have to do the hard work of dealing with people you don't agree with."

-- Clinton, quoted by CBS News in April, criticizing President Bush's refusal to meet with "supposed enemies" of the United States

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2007/07/24/flip_flop_of_the_day.html

[William769]

1. Now look who's being naive and if nothing else not truthful.

[polichick]

2. Where's the flip-flop?

It's in essence what she said last night.

[Ethelk2044]

4. Hillary Flip Flop

(CBS/AP) DECORAH, Iowa Hillary Rodham Clinton on Sunday criticized President Bush's foreign policy, and said if she were president she would do things differently, including beginning diplomatic talks with supposed enemies and sending envoys throughout the world.

"I would begin diplomatic discussions with those countries with whom we have differences, to try to figure out what is the depth of those differences," said Clinton, who spoke to about 1,000 people at Luther College in Decorah in northeastern Iowa.

"I think it is a terrible mistake for our president to say he will not talk with bad people. You don't make peace with your friends -- you have to do the hard work of dealing with people you don't agree with," said Clinton, who is seeking the Democratic presidential nomination.

Opening talks with other countries doesn't mean the U.S. won't defend its interests whenever necessary, she said, "but what it means is that we should discuss other routes before we decide we're going to pursue military options.

"We cannot provide the leadership we need unless we are willing to try engage the other countries," she said,

http://wcbstv.com/topstories/local_story_112220939.html

[Supersedeas]

7. Does begin diplomatic discussion equate to one on one talks!?!

[jefferson_dem]

8. Hillary's inconsistencies...

APRIL: "I think it is a terrible mistake for our president to say he will not talk with bad people."

***

YESTERDAY: "Well, I will not promise to meet with the leaders of these countries during my first year."

***

TOMORROW: ?

[polichick]

10. Good grief...

That's some crazy spinnin' you're doing! :)

[jefferson_dem]

14. Not at all.

Projection perhaps?

Questions:
Is it correct or not to criticize a president for saying he/she will not talk with bad people, or "our enemies"?
Is it correct or not to pledge that, as president, one should communicate with "our enemies" only if certain preconditions are met?

[polichick]

16. You seem quite confused...

She was never suggesting that the president him or herself begin the talks face-to-face ~ just that the administration should pursue diplomatic relations.

[jefferson_dem]

20. Confusion is standard fair

for one who hopes to logically follow Hillary's ever-shifting political maneuverings and meanderings...

So, in April, when Hillary said "I think it is a terrible mistake for our president to say he will not talk with bad people" she wasn't actually talking about the president. I wonder who the "he" is then? Couldn't have been Condi, obviously. Barney the dog perhaps?

[polichick]

25. Speaking as someone who supports all the Dems...

I have to say that you Hillary-haters do nothing to help your candidate with the constant bashing.

As Sen. Clinton explained last night, she wouldn't promise to speak with those leaders in person until diplomatic efforts (envoys etc.) give an indication of the intention on the other side. This is very different from Bush's comment. I agree with her that it is somewhat naive to think that the president should meet with these leaders face-to-face in the first year ~ much diplomacy by others in the administration needs to happen first.

[jefferson_dem]

28. Your sanctimony is nauseating.

For the record, i am not a Hillary hater. I just happen to believe another candidate is more suited for the job this go round. If you look closely, you might just find that all our beloved Democratic candidates are subjected to all sorts of "bashing" here at DU.

[polichick]

29. LOL

I can afford to be "sanctimonious" ~ I only want to beat the Republicans, not crown some candidate king or queen.

But, it's too bad you didn't address the rest of my comment. This kind of grasping at straws by Obama people just makes the campaign look desperate ~ it doesn't help.

[polichick]

9. There is no flip-flop; it's the same as she said in the debate.

Promising "a very vigorous diplomatic effort" (as she said last night) is not the same thing as having the president herself meet with these leaders.

[SaveElmer]

3. Continuing to peddle the same lie...

Different threads same falsehoods...

[William769]

5. What do you expect same people, same MO.

Thats the Obama strategy.

[durrrty libby]

19. They must be scared to death of Hillary's numbers and

they can't stop themselves.

It has become an Obsessive Compulsive Disorder with them

[Mojorabbit]

6. It's not what she said last night

I was just talking to my sister about it and it's not what she heard either. I am glad she is changing her mind even if it is triangulating.

[SaveElmer]

11. There was no change...as usual the Obama people

Are cherry picking...read Hillary's entire earlier statement and that is clear...

[polichick]

12. imo "the Obama people" do him no favors...

...with silly spins like this. Makes Obama look desperate, which he shouldn't be at this point.

[jefferson_dem]

26. Is "Political Wire" part of these "Obama people" you refer to?

The report on Hillary's "flip flops" is linked to in the OP...

[polichick]

27. I was referring to that expression used in post 11. nt

[SaveElmer]

13. PoliticalWire has withdrawn this post...nt

[Ethelk2044]

17. I just went to view the post. It has not been withdrawn

[karynnj]

18. The link still works for me

and the content seems the same.

[SaveElmer]

21. yeah its back...nt

[Ethelk2044]

31. Never left

[jefferson_dem]

23. LOL! Dude.

You may have debunked the charge in your mind but that doesn't make it *go away*.

The link is still live.

EDIT: Never mind. I see your reply.

[illinoisprogressive]

15. Hillary seems to have problems with the truth and with ethics

[SaveElmer]

22. Obama supporters seem to have trouble with truth and ethics...

[ElizabethDC]

24. Well, maybe not all of them, but certainly some of them

;)

[Doctor_J]

30. Shit. Ithought sure this would be about the Repukes flip-flopping on the Hatch Act

but nooooooooooo. More intramural squabbling.

:eyes:

[JANdad]

32. Yea...one of your cohorts already posted on this...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3397919&mesg_id=3399246

[PBass]

33. Some people are being deliberately obtuse. Apples and oranges here, for sure.

Diplomacy in general does not assume face-to-face meetings with national leaders. Yes, Hillary is correct: that would indeed risk the new president being used as a photo-op.

Hillary bested Obama on this question, no doubt about it, IMO.