Obama: Most blatant fib of the night...

[SaveElmer]

Barack Obama:

“I don’t take PAC money and I don’t take lobbyist money, and the bundlers, the reason you know who is raising money for me, Mike, is because I have pushed through a law this past session to disclose that,” Obama said.

Oops...that bill hasn't passed yet Barack...

You might wanna wait and take credit for it after it has happened...

Oh btw...he does take lobbyist money...

[peacebird]

1. link please? otherwise I'll have to dismiss as partisan sour grapes based on your avatar....

Link?

thanks!

[jsamuel]

2. My wife was angry with that since it wasn't true, but he said it anyway.

Maybe he was just confused.

CNN said it wasn't true, but you can't always trust them, now can you.

[BeyondGeography]

3. Oooh yeah, that's a real doozie...or maybe not so much

From another source, just so you'll be fully informed:

<Gravel and the rest of the public know how many bundlers Obama has not because of a "law" that the Illinois Democrat has "pushed through" but because Obama voluntarily discloses that information.>

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar /

He's a lying little Boy Scout, that Barack.

[Ethelk2044]

4. PAC Money Hillary Clinton

Source of Funds:
(How to read this chart / methodology)

Individual contributions
$52,538,649
83%

PAC contributions
$532,946
1%

Candidate self-financing
$0
0%

Federal Funds
$0
0%

Other
$10,004,332
16%



PAC Contribution Breakdown:
(How to read this chart / methodology)

Business
$173,340
55%

Labor
$28,300
9%

Ideological/Single Issue
$112,400
36%

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/summary.asp?id=N00000019


Hillary believes in working for Corporations instead of people

[ElizabethDC]

9. Did Hillary ever claim to not take money from PACs or lobbyists? n/t

[Ethelk2044]

12. She is in the pocket of corporations and she will owe them

I want someone in the Office working for the middle and lower class. I have had enough of corporations with Bush and Chaney. We need to move away from that.

[ElizabethDC]

14. So is Obama only taking money from the middle and lower classes?

Obama's gonna "owe" the rich folks who give him money, too.

[MGKrebs]

17. So 1% of her donations come from PAC's?

And somehow this puts her in the "pocket of corporations"?

I don't get it.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

21. So why is she being crushed by Obama on Wall Street?

If she is in the pocket of corporations... ;)

[burrowowl]

61. Good question!

Why?
I trust Dennis Kucinich and will vote for him until some DLCer gets nominated.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

67. No answer from the BO fans who call HRC a corporate tool... I think that says something

;)

[rinsd]

29. Yet again, Team Smear-4-Obama does half assed research and look like fools

http://query.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/can_give/2007_P00003392

The majority of these are unions, liberal PACS or other Democrats.

Meanwhile your guy continues to claim he doesn't take lobbyist money.

But whaddaya know....he does

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/select.asp?Ind=K02

[illinoisprogressive]

5. hillarybots have no ground on this one as Hillary is so ethically challenged

[laugle]

30. I find your characterization of Hillary supporters

as "hillarybots," insulting!!

All of us here are intelligent, articulate, critical thinking people.

Calling names does nothing to further the discussion.......

Obamabots........that has a ring to it!! Doesn't feel good does it???

May I suggest, Hillarycrats/Obamacrats??

[Ethelk2044]

54. That is old people have been calling Obama supporters names for months.

[laugle]

56. What have they called him that is offensive?

Besides, two wrongs don't make a right!

[laugle]

58. Sorry, but I can't understand your

grammar!

[mahina]

6. Please show the pac donations or lobbyist donations or take it back and apologize.

Saying it does not make it so.

[SaveElmer]

7. Obama takes state lobbyist money...nt

[Ethelk2044]

10. Hillary takes a Hell of a lot of money. She will not owe the people anything

when she gets elected. She will be too busy taking care of the corporations giving her MONEY.

[MGKrebs]

22. It looks like 99% of her money comes from individual donations.

From the data you posted.
That $10 million is left over from her Senate campaign, and if we assume the percentage breakdown is about the same, that means that 99% comes from individuals, and 1% comes from PAC's, some of which is labor or ideological. So $173,000, out of $52 million, comes from business PAC's, and you want us to believe that this means she is beholden to business to the exclusion of all others? That is delusional.

Even if we ignore the Senate money, $173,000 out of $42 million is still less than 1/2 of one percent.

[Ethelk2044]

13. Link?

[SoxFan]

18. And Hillary is backed by

a man who pimped for genocidal thug Slobodan Milosevic.

[elizm]

27. 3rd REQUEST FOR A LINK! You obviously have none...

...and just are throwing flames.

[rinsd]

31. Apparently you missed post # 23

Here's Obama taking about $60K in lobbyist dough

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/select.asp?Ind=K02

He also took about $5K from a PAC.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/summary.asp?id=N00009638&cycle=2008

Here's the LA Times calling him out on this in April

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/04/22/681/

While pledging to turn down donations from lobbyists themselves, Sen. Barack Obama raised more than $1 million in the first three months of his presidential campaign from law firms and companies that have major lobbying operations in the nation’s capital.Portraying himself as a new-style politician determined to reform Washington, Obama makes his policy clear in fundraising invitations, stating that he takes no donations from “federal lobbyists.” His aides announced last week he was returning $43,000 to lobbyists who donated to his campaign.

But the Illinois Democrat’s policy of shunning money from lobbyists registered to do business on Capitol Hill does not extend to lawyers whose partners lobby there.

Nor does the ban apply to corporations that have major lobbying operations in Washington. And the prohibition does not extend to lobbyists who ply their trade in such state capitals as Springfield, Ill.; Tallahassee, Fla.; and Sacramento, though some deal with national clients and issues.

[elizm]

35. I was addressing Elmer. nt

[rinsd]

36. Why? Would the answer from Elmer sting more?

[elizm]

38. You beat all. Sorry it doesn't 'sting' at all. I just wonder...

....Why are you so hateful??

[rinsd]

40. Moi? I'm all peaches and cream over here.

You called out a friend. I responded with the info you wanted.

Where's the hate?

[laugle]

60. Sometimes when others accuse people of things,

they are really talking about themselves, if you know what I mean. She likes to accuse people of being uninformed, but when you try to inform her, she whines.........you just can't win.........

I have never known you to be hateful!

[laugle]

59. You sure are awfully

sensitive, while going around questioning people's intellect!!

Last time I checked, anyone could reply to a post on a message board!

[mahina]

62. Hi, could you please show me where that is proven?

Otherwise it's not credible and hurts your argument.

[rinsd]

65. See post #23.

Why do people keep requesting answers to their questions which have already been answered?

[rinsd]

23. Ask and ye shall receive.

Obama's campaign previously made a more nuanced pledge to not take money from federal lobbyists. He does take money from lobbyist spouses and from state lobbyists.

http://opensecrets.org/pres08/summary.asp?id=N00009638&cycle=2008

http://opensecrets.org/pres08/select.asp?Ind=K02

He has only gotten $5K from PACs and about $60K from what open secrects has designated as lobbyists.

But when you make a big deal about not taking that money, well you opne youself up to easy attack.

[ozone_man]

8. Almost as big as Hillary calling herself a progressive.

Not only a liberal, but a progressive. What a whopper! :rofl:

[Alamom]

15. She didn't call herself a liberal. ..eom

[karynnj]

11. The bill passed the Senate

that is the body that Obama is a member of. You've credited Hillary with bills simply introduced and referred to committee - a far earlier stage of a bill than where Obama's is.

[lojasmo]

64. THE BILL PAAAASSSSEDDDD THE SENATE

BS thread.

[killbotfactory]

16. Taking on Party Leadership for "Most Significant Provision" of Ethics Reform

"The Senate adopted a measure that, for the first time, would require registered lobbyists to disclose not only the limited money they can donate to candidates personally but also the tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars they raise from clients and friends and deliver as sheaves of checks -- a tradition known as bundling...the disclosure idea's lead sponsor, Senator Barack Obama... 'has not been the most popular person in our caucus in the last couple of weeks,' said a Democratic aide involved in deliberations over the bill."

-New York Times, January 20, 2007


But he's a liar, huh?

[MGKrebs]

19. So Obama doesn't take union money? or Planned Parenthood?

Or teachers?
Or Emily's List?
Or MoveOn?
Or ActBlue?

Why not?

[karynnj]

20. Obama needs to get a clean answer out - because he does have a good record here

Here is a January 2007 NYT article that spoke of the changes that Feingold and Obama wanted inserted in the bill:

"The Feingold-Obama plan would make lawmakers reimburse corporations for use of their jets at the cost of a charter flight instead of the price of a first-class ticket -- a step that stops short of the House rules. The bill would also create an independent watchdog as the House Democrats have discussed. And it would prohibit lobbyists or the organizations that employ them from holding lavish events for lawmakers at party conventions.

The Feingold-Obama bill would also require lobbyists to disclose any earmarks they are seeking for their clients, and require lobbyists to disclose any collecting and passing on of campaign contributions -- a practice known as ''bundling'' that currently makes K Street the heart of campaign fund-raising for most lawmakers. Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota, said she and many other newly elected Democrats were working with Mr. Obama, Mr. Feingold and Mr. Reid to pushing for stronger changes, in part because they felt the resonance of the issue on the campaign trail."
http://select.nytimes.com/search/restricted/article?res=F30F1FFC3F540C768CDDA80894DF404482

NYT article that speaks of bill passing - and of Feingold and Obama adding amendments that strengthened it:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/19/washington/19ethics.html?ex=1185422400&en=f9db1c3ca56cd187&ei=5070

This NYT article focusses in on the bundling ban and describes the political courage it took to lead that effort - the picture of Schumer glaring at Obama and Feingold is priceless.

"Given the reliance of many lawmakers on lobbyists as fund-raisers, the idea of requiring them to disclose their roles usually meets stiff resistance on Capitol Hill — all of it behind the scenes and almost none of it in public. House passage is far from assured, and its adoption by the Senate by a roll-call vote of 96 to 2 followed some backroom resistance among senators in both parties to allowing the idea to come up for a vote at all.

The Republicans who controlled the Senate last year refused to let it come up. And on Jan. 12, before the details of the proposal had been disclosed, Senator Charles E. Schumer, the New York Democrat in charge of his party’s fund-raising as head of the senatorial campaign committee, used a run-in on the Senate floor to deliver an angry rebuke to the disclosure idea’s lead sponsor, Senator Barack Obama, Democrat of Illinois, several people present or briefed on the confrontation said.

In a subsequent conversation, Mr. Schumer said he worried that the proposal could cramp fund-raising by placing an undue burden on potential bundlers, said aides who were briefed and a lawmaker familiar with their talk, speaking on the condition of anonymity because of the nature of the talks.

“Senator Obama has not been the most popular person in our caucus in the last couple of weeks,” said a Democratic aide involved in deliberations over the bill. Mr. Obama also this week started a bid for his party’s presidential nomination."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/20/us/politics/20ethics.html?ex=1185422400&en=eb37a92cf9339ed2&ei=5070

Here's the Senate record link to show the ethics bill passing 96 - 2.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=1&vote=00019


Another interesting ethics amendment was the Demint amendment - that added in the tougher Pelosi provisions. The Democratic leadership tried to kill it by tabling it. The "NO" votes are votes the votes for tougher ethics rules - note - Obama is a "NO", Clinton a "YES"
.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 110th Congress - 1st Session

as compiled through Senate LIS by the Senate Bill Clerk under the direction of the Secretary of the Senate


Vote Summary

Question: On the Motion to Table (Motion to Table DeMint Amdt. No. 11 )
Vote Number: 5 Vote Date: January 11, 2007, 02:03 PM
Required For Majority: 1/2 Vote Result: Motion to Table Failed
Amendment Number: S.Amdt. 11 to S.Amdt. 3 to S. 1
Statement of Purpose: To strengthen earmark reform.
Vote Counts: YEAs 46
NAYs 51
Not Voting 3
Vote Summary By Senator Name By Vote Position By Home State


Alphabetical by Senator Name Akaka (D-HI), Yea
Alexander (R-TN), Nay
Allard (R-CO), Nay
Baucus (D-MT), Yea
Bayh (D-IN), Yea
Bennett (R-UT), Yea
Biden (D-DE), Yea
Bingaman (D-NM), Yea
Bond (R-MO), Nay
Boxer (D-CA), Yea
Brown (D-OH), Yea
Brownback (R-KS), Not Voting
Bunning (R-KY), Yea
Burr (R-NC), Nay
Byrd (D-WV), Yea
Cantwell (D-WA), Nay
Cardin (D-MD), Yea
Carper (D-DE), Yea
Casey (D-PA), Yea
Chambliss (R-GA), Nay
Clinton (D-NY), Yea
Coburn (R-OK), Nay
Cochran (R-MS), Nay
Coleman (R-MN), Nay
Collins (R-ME), Nay
Conrad (D-ND), Yea
Corker (R-TN), Nay
Cornyn (R-TX), Nay
Craig (R-ID), Nay
Crapo (R-ID), Nay
DeMint (R-SC), Nay
Dodd (D-CT), Yea
Dole (R-NC), Nay
Domenici (R-NM), Yea
Dorgan (D-ND), Yea
Durbin (D-IL), Yea
Ensign (R-NV), Nay
Enzi (R-WY), Nay
Feingold (D-WI), Nay
Feinstein (D-CA), Yea
Graham (R-SC), Nay
Grassley (R-IA), Nay
Gregg (R-NH), Nay
Hagel (R-NE), Nay
Harkin (D-IA), Nay
Hatch (R-UT), Yea
Hutchison (R-TX), Nay
Inhofe (R-OK), Nay
Inouye (D-HI), Not Voting
Isakson (R-GA), Nay
Johnson (D-SD), Not Voting
Kennedy (D-MA), Yea
Kerry (D-MA), Nay
Klobuchar (D-MN), Yea
Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Kyl (R-AZ), Nay
Landrieu (D-LA), Nay
Lautenberg (D-NJ), Yea
Leahy (D-VT), Yea
Levin (D-MI), Yea
Lieberman (ID-CT), Nay
Lincoln (D-AR), Yea
Lott (R-MS), Yea
Lugar (R-IN), Nay
Martinez (R-FL), Nay
McCain (R-AZ), Nay
McCaskill (D-MO), Yea
McConnell (R-KY), Nay
Menendez (D-NJ), Yea
Mikulski (D-MD), Yea
Murkowski (R-AK), Nay
Murray (D-WA), Yea
Nelson (D-FL), Nay
Nelson (D-NE), Yea
Obama (D-IL), Nay
Pryor (D-AR), Yea
Reed (D-RI), Yea
Reid (D-NV), Yea
Roberts (R-KS), Nay
Rockefeller (D-WV), Yea
Salazar (D-CO), Yea
Sanders (I-VT), Yea
Schumer (D-NY), Yea
Sessions (R-AL), Nay
Shelby (R-AL), Nay
Smith (R-OR), Yea
Snowe (R-ME), Nay
Specter (R-PA), Nay
Stabenow (D-MI), Yea
Stevens (R-AK), Nay
Sununu (R-NH), Nay
Tester (D-MT), Nay
Thomas (R-WY), Nay
Thune (R-SD), Nay
Vitter (R-LA), Nay
Voinovich (R-OH), Yea
Warner (R-VA), Nay
Webb (D-VA), Nay
Whitehouse (D-RI), Yea
Wyden (D-OR),

[rinsd]

24. Obama's stance on transparency should be the line, not "I don't take lobbyist" money

I said this when we went thru the 1st Q fundraising and his campaign sought to make distinctions between lobbyist wives and states lobbyists and the federal lobbyists.

Its such a measly part of his huge haul, I just don't get it.

[Scriptor Ignotus]

25. all you need to know - Barack Obama

Individual contributions
$58,605,160
99%

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/summary.asp?id=N00009638&cycle=2008

[killbotfactory]

26. The only two candidates who beat him on individual contributions

Are Edwards and Kucinich, who are both at 100%.
Richardson is at 98%.
Hillary is at 83%.
The rest get progressively worse.

[rinsd]

33. Hillary would be much higher but her Senate transfer counts as other

[lojasmo]

68. "would be higher" ....But isn't. EOM

[Scriptor Ignotus]

63. they beat him on percentage (by one)

but of course, Obama leads in money. now we just got to get that to translate to votes...

[laugle]

28. It's just like Obama

running around saying "he didn't vote for the IWR." Many uninformed people don't realize that he wasn't even in the U.S. Senate at that time!

Simple logic says; if Obama voted 99% with Hillary in the Senate; something tells me he would have voted for it had he been in the Senate at that time.

I know his supporters disagree with that, but to me, it's just logical......

[killbotfactory]

32. Yeah, what a fraud!

I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda.

I am not opposed to all wars. I’m opposed to dumb wars.

So for those of us who seek a more just and secure world for our children, let us send a clear message to the president today. You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s finish the fight with Bin Laden and al-Qaeda, through effective, coordinated intelligence, and a shutting down of the financial networks that support terrorism, and a homeland security program that involves more than color-coded warnings.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s fight to make sure that the UN inspectors can do their work, and that we vigorously enforce a non-proliferation treaty, and that former enemies and current allies like Russia safeguard and ultimately eliminate their stores of nuclear material, and that nations like Pakistan and India never use the terrible weapons already in their possession, and that the arms merchants in our own country stop feeding the countless wars that rage across the globe.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s fight to make sure our so-called allies in the Middle East, the Saudis and the Egyptians, stop oppressing their own people, and suppressing dissent, and tolerating corruption and inequality, and mismanaging their economies so that their youth grow up without education, without prospects, without hope, the ready recruits of terrorist cells.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s fight to wean ourselves off Middle East oil, through an energy policy that doesn’t simply serve the interests of Exxon and Mobil.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Barack_Obama's_Iraq_Speech

[Colobo]

34. People don't like facts, you know?

[elizm]

37. He's never said "I didn't vote for the IWR"

He said he OPPOSED the war from the beginning. You conveniently twisted his words.

[laugle]

41. I didn't mean to twist his words. But to me it is the same thing!

He carefully nuance's his position when speaking about the the Iraq war and it's misleading.

I know when he first came on the scene, I didn 't know who he was, and thought he was in the U.S. Senate, and found out later it was the Illinois state senate.

He does this a lot and it just makes me not trust him, as it seems deliberate.

[killbotfactory]

42. I find nothing nuanced or misleading in his speech before the IWR was passed

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Barack_Obama%5C's_Iraq_Speech

[laugle]

44. Maybe because you have a bias and cannot see

what others see.....I know that I am not alone on this issue.......

I don't think we will agree on this one, but this issue is out there and as a supporter, you should be aware of it.

I've tried to be impressed by Obama, but so far I'm just not!!

[Colobo]

46. Don't vote for him then.

[killbotfactory]

47. Can you point out the problems you see in his speech?

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Barack_Obama%5C's_Iraq_Speech

[elizm]

48. No, it is not the same thing.

And if you didn't know who he was and therefore misunderstood, that is hardly Senator Obama's fault. Hard to believe you did not know who he was after his 2004 Democratic Convention speech, but whatever. For you to say he is MISLEADING when in truth it was you who was uninformed is so wrong on so many levels. Perhaps you should try to be more informed when picking...or trashing...a candidate.

[laugle]

53. You don't know anything about me, and

I don't believe you watched the whole convention. And I never gave you a date when I first heard of Obama!!!

I am extremely well-informed! I just don't have an interest in Obama!

You should not pre-judge people whom you know nothing about, especially on a message board.

[Dawgs]

52. Well, maybe that's why you're a Hillary supporter.

You only believe what you want.

[Ethelk2044]

55. He has not been misleading on the war. He has been out Front

Wrong War and against it. There is nothing confusing about it.

[Inspired]

39. These silly Clinton and Obama supporters and their flame wars! n/t

[be inspired]

43. Good point

Also, anyone who gives more than $200 to a political campaign has to disclose their identity and employment. The info goes into the FEC reports. This was true long before Obama ever even got into the Senate, and it's the reason you can find out who gives money to the campaigns.

[karynnj]

49. Actually, you can't

No individual can give more than $2,300 an election ($4600 for the primary and the general). What lobbyists (and others) do is solicit donations from their friends, relatives and acquaintances and bundle them together to give the candidate a large sum. That is what will be affected by Obama's amendment.

PS - I am not an Obama supporter, but was impressed early this year with what he and Feingold were able to do - with the leadership not behind them. I am still looking for a 2008 candidate.

[be inspired]

51. Sure you can.

What Obama and Feingold are proposing does add another layer of transparency, but you can already find out the names, addresses, occupations, and employers of every individual who gives to a political campaign if the amount is over $200, and you can also, at least in some cases, figure out who is bundling if you scrutinize the reports enough.

[sandnsea]

45. Hillary brags that she's a slimy pos

So everything she does is aok. That's the logic of Hillary supporters on every single issue.

[ElizabethDC]

50. When has Hillary bragged about that?

I must have missed that . . .

[sandnsea]

57. Hillary doesn't take PAC and lobbyist money?

I must have missed that...

[rinsd]

66. I love watching you twist yourself into bitter little knots.

I can't wait to see full on meltdowns from some Hillary hatin DUers come the primaries.