Our health care *system* is broken, not our health care providers.

[Stinky The Clown]

For the sake of this thread, health care providers is defined as doctors, nurses, phlebotomists, radiology techs, etc., etc. The health care system is defined as the institutions of the industry, such as hospitals, pharma, insurance companies, hospitals,HMOs, etc., etc.

I wonder how widespread this view is? Lance Armstrong was on Hairballz and, in the course of a larger discussion said that while we may not have as much access as the Europeans he know so well, ours is the 'best system in the world' as evidenced by the fact that rich people everywhere choose us healthcare providers when they have a serious illness.

How many people see the 'system' as great because some of the people who are part of it are great practitioners? How many people merge the two into one large entity? Is that even fair? is it true?

When I heard him make that comment it was jarring. I never heard that before.

And yes ...... I know he's cancer survivor and a jock, not a health care expert or a politician.

[killbotfactory]

1. We have the best healthcare money can buy

It just so happens that millions are effectively priced out of the market, and have to deal with substandard care if they can even get it in the first place.

And frankly, there is something tremendously wrong with any country where 18,000 people a year die due to lack of health insurance.

[Stinky The Clown]

5. You're making a big part my point.

[supernova]

2. Of course Lance would say that

he can afford to get whatever the MD orders.

I will agree that our hc professional are excellent people. There are some assholes, of course, like in all professions. But generally I've liked the people who have served me.

But the fact remains the system isn't set up to give the most to the most people. It's set up to give the most to the least amount of people. And that's the problem. There are too many layers and barriers in between me and the person best able to look after me.

[Stinky The Clown]

7. Absolutely true

Our health care is great. Maybe the best in the world.

It is also segregated. The Haves get, the Have Nots don't. The More You Haves get even more.

[Warpy]

3. When you define providers as hospitals, they're broken, too

Years of cost cutting have really taken a toll on most hospitals. Facilities are aging and some of them are incompatible with new technology and the changing needs of a patient population that is discharged quicker and sicker.

Concentrating on staff cuts as a way to cut costs has also taken a very serious toll on hospital functioning. Fully 50% of the trained RNs in this country have stopped practicing, citing brutal working conditions as the number one reason. Administrators, even those with RN after their names, are completely cut off from the reality on the floor in the average hospital unit and time management studies tell them nothing about how sick people actually behave in the real world.

Even the wealthy are feeling the pinch as VIP wings in major hospitals are also deteriorating and are dangerously short staffed.

Any attempt to bandaid the system by keeping the profit motive in place is doomed to failure. We need a radical change in the focus of the system and we need it yesterday. Expand Medicare NOW. Get profit out of healthcare NOW. It's a right, not the privilege of the wealthy.

[Stinky The Clown]

12. I put hospitals in 'the system' category in my OP

Our company has three very large hospital systems among our clients. I can't think of bigger penny pinchers than them. They're always crying poverty. I have no way to know if they are or not, but they sure avoid investing in infrastructure. We get most of our calls from them after JCAH inspections. I wonder why?

[MannyGoldstein]

4. Those People Don't Actually Exist

Almost nobody comes to the US for treatment from industrialized countries - it is a myth. Whenver anyone looks for these people, they find that they simply do not exist.

The only significant exception is that people will sometimes come here for treatments that are done here, but not in other countries. For example, cancerous prostates are not usually removed in Europe - because studies have shown that removal does zero to increase life expectancy for men over 65 with prostate cancer - it just causes nasty side effects. So, if you're a European over 65 with prostate cancer, and you really really really want your prostate removed, you can come to the US where we'll gladly remove it for a princely sum.

[welshTerrier2]

6. is Lance 1 of the 47 million without health insurance?

this comment he made says it all: "rich people everywhere choose us health care providers" ...

i'll bet his bicycle costs more than yours too ...

[Stinky The Clown]

8. I bet his bicycle costs more than all three of our (10, 11, and 12 yr old) cars combined!

[truedelphi]

9. Unfortunately our health care providers are broken down by the broken system

How can nurses provide good care if they are required to work shifts that are overly
demanding?

Worse, because hospitals do not want to shell out for emplyee benefits, more and more hospitals have become fond of the practice of hiring through registries.

A nurse may provide care in your community at your local hospital today, and be working at a different hospital tomorrow.

If you have ever worked on a hospital floor, you know that familiarity is one thing that helps in offering excellent care. If you are spending a large portion of your twelve hours trying to figure out where the med supply cabinet is, how to get a hold of pharmacy, and even smaller routine matters like where is the cafeteria, you cannot spend as much time with patients.

And then there is the factor that if you are on the same floor, you are familiar with the patients there. That is missing if the nurses are registery nurses.

[ProudDad]

10. My partner is an oncology nurse with over 20 years' experience

She says that the corporate, pharma ridden health care "delivery" system in the U.S. (try pharmaceutical delivery system) is NOT the best.

It is so weighted in favor of denying care (thanks to the insurance mafia) and dosing people with pills (big pharma) and cutting them open (the most HIGHLY paid and LEAST holistic practitioners, the surgeons are driving that little activity) and so understaffed (in order to boost the profits of the giant for-profit hospital chains) that actual healing is secondary in this country...secondary to the "bottom line" and the lawyers and the bean counters at the insurance companies.

Oh, the technology is there, most of it ripped off from the taxpayers support of research and development for the enrichment of big pharma and GE, but healing?

The Cuban Docs and Nurses do a better job of healing than most CAN do here because they ARE holistic at the core and don't have to worry about bean counters second guessing their every decision.

There's a lot more to health care than MRI machines and Oxycontin.

[Stinky The Clown]

11. Your spot on criticism is of the system .....

.... as I defined it here. And I agree with you.