Obama is making the same mistakes Dean made

[ruggerson]

Like it or not, the vast majority of Americans want a President who is calm, cool, collected and tough.

Over the top, hyper passionate, appeal-to-the-base rhetoric does just that: it motivates and inspires that sliver of the electorate that is already convinced and already partisan.

One of Al Gore's biggest mistakes in '00 (and, yes, I know he won, but Florida never should even have been close) was in the debate when he walked over to Shrub and "invaded his territory." It came across as aggressive and bizarre. Hillary's senate opponent in her first race, Lazio, did the same thing to Hillary during one of their debates and she just stood her ground and looked at him like "what are you going to do? Hit me?" He lost the race in that nano second.

Obama has built his entire campaign around a "different" kind of politics. Non-divisive and forward looking.

For him to start calling Hillary names, instead of calmly deflecting her criticisms, fires up his base, but alienates every one else he needs to get elected President. His behaviour runs counter to the entire precept of his campaign.

Howard Dean lost the campaign the week before the Iowa primary, when the news media gleefully found a tape of him from years earlier on a talk show in Canada denigrating the Iowa caucuses.

Instead of handling the situation with calm, self deprecating humor, Iowans and the rest of the nation were presented with a week full of images of a very defensive, over the top Howard Dean. It hit him where it hurt: with the voters with whom he had not yet sealed the deal.

Whatever you think of Hillary, she is reacting to this spat far more masterfully than Obama. And if she's this good with Obama, it bodes well for when the Republics start throwing everything they have at her, should she be our nominee.

[rinsd]

1. I'll take the comparison even further.

Obama has the voting record of a moderate Democrat yet he is attempting to run as the progressive champion.

[sidwill]

69. Did he vote for the war?

Your avatar did.

[rinsd]

71. Does Obama have a moderate voting record?

Or a progressive one?

[never cry wolf]

74. 10th most liberal according to the National Journal

Seems to be ahead of many prominent names. Sorry if the formatting is off due to cut and paste, check the link for full formatted list.

http://nationaljournal.com/voteratings/sen/lib.htm

Durbin, Richard, D-Ill. 87 95 95 95.2
Boxer, Barbara, D-Calif. 87 92 98 95
Kennedy, Edward, D-Mass. 87 88 98 93.7
Leahy, Patrick, D-Vt. 83 96 94 92.5
Harkin, Tom, D-Iowa 83 96 92 92
Reed, Jack, D-R.I. 87 89 88 91.3
Sarbanes, Paul, D-Md. * 87 93 79 89.7
Murray, Patty, D-Wash. 87 96 76 89.3
Mikulski, Barbara, D-Md. 87 80 88 88.8
Obama, Barack, D-Ill. 87 77 85 86
Wyden, Ron, D-Ore. 87 80 79 86
Kerry, John, D-Mass. 87 89 72 85.7
Bingaman, Jeff, D-N.M. 87 76 85 85.5
Levin, Carl, D-Mich. 75 96 79 85.3
Feingold, Russell, D-Wis. 75 86 88 84.5
Lautenberg, Frank, D-N.J. 87 89 67 84.3
Dodd, Christopher, D-Conn. 83 93 72 84
Akaka, Daniel, D-Hawaii 74 79 95 83.5
Menendez, Robert, D-N.J. 79 80 84 82.7
Jeffords, James, I-Vt. * 82 86 77 82.5
Dayton, Mark, D-Minn. * 78 77 85 81
Cantwell, Maria, D-Wash. 79 80 75 79.7
Reid, Harry, D-Nev. 79 72 79 78.2
Biden, Joseph, D-Del. 87 73 65 77.5
Feinstein, Dianne, D-Calif. 67 70 88 76.5
Schumer, Charles, D-N.Y. 71 80 67 74.5
Dorgan, Byron, D-N.D. 67 57 95 74.3
Bayh, Evan, D-Ind. 83 71 62 73.3
Inouye, Daniel, D-Hawaii 65 75 74 71.8
Kohl, Herb, D-Wis. 75 67 67 71
Byrd, Robert, D-W.Va. 66 51 92 70.5
Clinton, Hillary Rodham, D-N.Y. 63 80 62 70.2
Johnson, Tim, D-S.D. 63 61 79 69.2
Stabenow, Debbie, D-Mich. 67 68 66 68
Salazar, Ken, D-Colo. 72 69 61 67.8
Lieberman, Joe, ID-Conn. 73 74 54 67.5
Carper, Thomas, D-Del. 67 63 67 67.2
Baucus, Max, D-Mont. 60 66 71 66.2
Conrad, Kent, D-N.D. 59 58 77 65.3
Lincoln, Blanche, D-Ark. 58 64 62 62.3
Nelson, Bill, D-Fla. 57 64 58 60.3
Pryor, Mark, D-Ark. 61 59 57 59.5
Chafee, Lincoln, R-R.I. * 55 61 59 59
Landrieu, Mary, D-La. 56 60 55 57.5

[bigdarryl]

2. WHAT!!!! YOUR DELUSIONAL hes running a very good campaign

[madfloridian]

3. Ouch.....let's bring out the punching bag who is NOT running.

We have so many of them.

Right now I don't think that much of anything. I am just tired of all of the posturing by all of them.

Thanks for bringing up what could have been left alone, since the media is blasting Dean today as well.

[ruggerson]

8. Well, I'm a huge fan of Dean's

as you might remember. But a masterful presidential candidate he wasn't. I think he's learned an awful lot about the national stage since then.

[madfloridian]

11. But you posted a 3 way flame bait including someone not running.

The press is using him as a punching bag today. Did you have to do that?

[ruggerson]

12. You can't post anything around here

without it being accused of being "flamebait."

That's just puerile. The OP is my take on the current, very public brouhaha between our two leading candidates. If we can't comment on this and give our opinions, we might as well not have a DU.

[madfloridian]

13. But it is between Obama and Clinton....you gave supposition and opinion

on someone who is not running. Someone who is still working hard for the pary, and who is being lambasted in the press today for little reason.

[ruggerson]

19. I compared him to the presidential candidate Dean from four years ago

not to the DNC Chair of today. Give me a break.

[madfloridian]

21. No, not when the press is hitting him hard today as well.

...

[laugle]

23. Your analysis was objective and fair!

Accusing HRC of being the same as Bushco was a bad strategy....

And let's not forget one of the biggest assets in her arsenal, Bill, the master of diplomacy.

He will be a roving ambassador to the middle east and other nations, and I have great hopes for his missions!

3 days of this is enough, Obama needs to drop it!

That said....I still would like to see some fire out of BO!

[PATRICK]

33. Good point

Which shows the post is less astute than the Obama response, which as necessary and actually as good as it is, needed a little more tooling. He lost the point concerning experience and diplomatic procedure. he countered offensively and went for the winning point of being daring and new not just conventional.

The criticism is overloaded- and poor Howard dean. This is just one point magnifying the obvious. So Obama magnified back. Politics, he had no choice.

[Windy]

14. Yeah he was too honest... he didn't posture or pander...

fatal flaw.... :eyes:

[ruggerson]

16. No, reread the OP

when the video came out of him dissing the Iowa Caucus process, instead of agilely handling it with self deflecting humor, we were treated to video of him being brusque, angry and dismissive and then running down a hall to get away from reporters who were trying to ask him questions about it. Nothing to do with his honesty and everything to do with his skill and experience on the national stage.

[movonne]

17. What I think corporations didn't want him...(Dean) and also I don't

think they want Edwards, or Obama...I do think they want Hillary..go to google and put in DLC and maybe you can see why...

[maximusveritas]

4. Unless he starts calling Iowans names

I don't see the comparison.
Hillary, by the way, was the one who first started calling him names. He was just responding to her attacks. So is she the one repeating Dean's mistakes?

[hijinx87]

5. I'm not sure the dean:obama comparison is valid

but I do think there is probably a significant portion of the
electorate that, on a subconscious level, won't tolerate a man
"attacking" a woman. obama hasn't crossed that line yet, but it
is probably something he should keep in mind.

[goodgd_yall]

26. Interesting, I had another take on it

I'm wondering if Obama would have been so upset about the "naive" comment if it came from another male.

[hijinx87]

37. hillary's "silly" comment

subconsciously reinforces her earlier "naive" remark.

team clinton is hitting on all cylinders. they will be very,
VERY hard to stop.

but, to address your point, being called "naive" by a female may
indeed have tapped into his inner depths of being male.

a very good point.

[eridani]

62. The only "naive" candidates--

--are the ones who think we can still afford to keep on being an imperial power instead of putting all our resources into inventing the next energy economy before it gets impossible to do that.

[hijinx87]

68. only naivete will keep us from winning

think what you will.

[catgirl]

46. I don't think Obama is a male chauvinist. Sheesh

I don't think any presidential candidate likes to be called naive...by anyone.
Especially to the public. Btw, that was real subtle message Hillary (the Obama
not having enough experience slant and calling him naive...hmm).

[illinoisprogressive]

6. I disagree. Obama has passion but, is also thoughtful and cool.

[durrrty libby]

15. Nah, he was screaming like a banshee and stuttering

It is stunning how quickly he loses his composure

[dionysus]

65. link? that's bullshit.

[displacedtexan]

7. National campaigns always play to the center.

Bill Clinton was "too conservative" for me in the primary, but he was a great nominee and a great prez!

Then again, in the primary Bill was just being shrewd.

On the other hand, I like what Jim Hightower said to me a couple of years ago: "Why don't we just get 10-15% more liberals to register and vote... and screw the fence sitters?"

[rhombus]

9. All Obama is doing is responding to an attack on his integrity

Hillary calling Obama "naive" and "irresponsible" was just so arrogant. She didn't even bother to read the NIE report but had the audacity to give Bush a blank check over this dumb war and catastrophic foreign policy blunder. 3500 lives lost, 20,000 plus wounded, over 100,000 Iraqis killed.


She shouldn't call anyone "naive".

[ProgressiveAmPatriot]

72. Agreed, but there are Dean precedents that Obama is facing

Obama is getting hit hard by the Beltway pundits for saying what he said. If anything this should be looked at as a media spin machine story. Obama to Talk with the Devil is essentially the stories they are running. Although this has been a good thing for Obama because Clinton blatantly started a fight, it rings similar to Dean's turn in press coverage once the story became his actual ideas. Obama is seeing the press turn on him, the honeymoon is over.

[madfloridian]

10. Dean Dean Dean Dean Dean

....:shrug:

[msongs]

dean for president 2008 :-) at least he had concrete plans and idears

running on platitudes or failed 1990's schemes are fine, but the candidate who dusts off howards specifics and tacks them onto his/her current campaing will be doing him/her self a lot of good.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[TheWebHead]

18. did I miss something, when was Obama over the top?

unless any critique against Hillary is over the top by default... His temperament has been nowhere near hyper passionate. Gravel, yeah, Obama, no.

[earthlover]

20. oh yeah...hillary isn't going negative....except she started it!

She called him naive. Didn't she?

Obama didn't just take it. He swung back.

Fact of the matter is that Obama is differentiating himself from Hillary and she is helping him in this regard. The Bush-Cheney policy of talking with our friends and giving "preconditions" to talking with our enemies is a departure from decades of foreign policy. And that is one of the reasons the USA is more isolated today than before Bush took office.

Dialogue and diplomacy are important to preventing wars. War is defined as a breakdown of diplomacy. Even conservatives like Reagan and Nixon spoke with our enemies. Heck, even recently, Hillary advocated speaking...but now that the political winds might show an advantage she takes a different posture. Same old Hillary. When she is not Bush Lite, she is Flip Flop Max!

Obama is calm, cool, collected and tough. That is why he was not emoitionally in support of Iraq even when public opinion followed Bush like a magnet (remember the 80% approval ratings?).

Obama asked Hillary if she can differentiate herself from Bush/Cheney on the issue of talking with our enemies. We can argue all night, but the ball is in Hillary's court! It is up to Hillary to show how she is different on this issue. I am not holding my breath....

[laugle]

30. Whoa.....

it's me the potato lady......

"emoitionally" s/b "emotionally"

Tuche!!! private joke....right!

But I won't generalize like you did with me.....even good spellers have occasional errors!

Enough said........got you there!!

[earthlover]

43. Ok...touchee

Notice that is the correct spelling.

Gotcha back!

In good spirits and good fun. :-)

[laugle]

75. Damn........LOL

Now you got me re-thinging spell-check!

[Gman]

22. Good analysis and on the money

Such is the way of politics regardless of how people here think it ought to be. Obama is a good man. I just wish he hadn't read so many of his headlines and believed all the people that told him how great and wonderful he is. He really only needed to wait maybe 8 more years to be a heavyweight. The nomination could have been his hands down at that time. Right now he looks like the rookie that he is. He's making dumb rookie mistakes.

Hillary is an old hand at this and is running an absolutely textbook campaign. She doesn't stumble, she doesn't hesitate. She knows exactly what to do, what to say, how to say it and when to say it.

I am really sorry that Obama is running this year. I think that's such a waste. He is no match for Hillary's campaign skills. The more he throws dirt at her, the worse he will look.

[TwilightGardener]

39. LOL! How dare he challenge the Queen! NO ONE should dare challenge the queen!

Uh, he's plenty well-matched for her. He's doing great. That's why she started hitting him, actually. He's a threat, and she's trying to smack him down. SHE'S the one who needs to watch it on the attacks--he's a more sympathetic character, the underdog--she's just reminding folks of the stuff they didn't like about her.

[Gman]

44. Sure Obama's a threat

anyone that's living, breathing (or in the case of Senator Ashcroft, not living and not breathing) and running against you is a threat. I will predict that Hillary will not dwell long on any one thing about Obama. She's going to pick her shots, take them then dance away. She'll do it just enough to take the luster off Obama, maybe scuff his face up a bit but not get too personal or too intense, too use some pugilistic metaphors. That's what's politics is about.

Obama could be a sympathetic character, but a man running against a woman for president isn't going to get much sympathy for being roughed up by a woman. And he had better not appear to be whining because this woman took a shot at him or he's dead in the water from that point on. Obama runs the same risks that Rick Lazio ran by picking on her too much because she knows exactly how to play it. What Obama's done so far is fair. What Hillary has done so far is fair. But Obama needs to get more substance going for his self and demonstrate a level of maturity and savvy that equals or exceeds Hillary if he wants to pull even with her.

Personally, I'd be thrilled to see Obama nominated. He'd be the second coming of JFK. It would be great. But being the unswerving pragmatist that I am, I don't see it happening.

[ruggerson]

48. Yup. I agree with everything you wrote.

Including about being thrilled were he our nominee. Well, maybe not so much thrilled as excited.

But, I have to admit, despite myself, she's growing on me. She's one damn good strategist, and contrary to popular opinion, I think she might be better at beating back the Republican attack machine next fall than he.

[TwilightGardener]

51. I don't have a problem with them taking non-personal shots at each other.

I do have a problem with someone suggesting he shouldn't run because SHE is infallible and inevitable. I usually defend her here, even though I'm an Obama supporter. But the "naive and irresponsible" charge the next day was a little over-the-top--should she stumble and he becomes our nominee, that insult will be used and replayed by Republicans. I think Obama's debate answer was fine, and she picked up an angle that he didn't--their answers actually completed each other more than conflicted. She is going to try to make herself look more experienced, and she got her shot in at the debate, but she needs to watch the continued attacks, is all I'm saying--it makes me like her less, and likeability is a problem for her as it is.

[ruggerson]

56. As long as she does it

the way she's been doing it, calmly, toughly and with great control and sophistication, I'm fine with it. It actually makes me like her more, because this is all just a dry run for next fall when she/he/whomever will have to take on the REALLY well oiled attack machine.

I've long thought that presidential elections in America are just protracted symbolic, metaphoric warfare for many voters, on a subconscious level. People want to feel safe with their new commander in chief, so they look to see how the candidates perform in head to head political battle as a kind of precursor of what we are going to get in the WH. Whomever manages to authentically portray and project real toughness, resilience and rough and tumble tenacity on the field, usually is the one who ends up sitting in the Oval office at the end of the day.

[earthlover]

40. There you hillary folk go again....

Trying to spread the meme that Obama should wait 8 years, isn't old enough, isn't experienced enough. Well, one thing IS getting old and that is that meme!

That is what calling him "naive" was all about.

This debate was not about foreign policy. It was about trying to paint Obama as not ready.

Problem for Hillary is that she is unwittingly taking the position of the Bush-Cheney team, who has departed from decades of foreign policy, and has not talked with our enemies and pooh-poohing someone who is arguing for more dialogue. And Obama surprised her by calling her on it.

I think most Americans, and certainly most Democrats, support dialogue. Hillary may have scored a few points trying to paint Obama as naive, but her flip-flopping on dialogue and diplomacy (just a while ago she was speaking FOR it!...OMG) is going to bite her in the butt. Doncha think the Reps will point out her flip flopping?

Battle to Hillary. War to Obama. Obama I think surprised Hillary by making a big deal of this and not taking this sitting down. By starting the brawl calling him naive, she opened the way for him to differentiate himself from her on a position of hers that makes little credible sense, unless yu want to continue the aberrant policies of Bush-Cheney by making prohibitive preconditions on talks.

[Gman]

61. It's not so much that it is inevitable for Hillary to get the nomination

but it's more that she outclasses the field with her skills. A prize fighter that is at the top of his class still get opponents. Even Mike Tyson finally got beat, but because he became careless and lazy. He wasn't hungry anymore and fought someone that was.... again to use the pugilistic metaphors. It's not inevitable for Hillary to win. She still has to continue what she's doing and not slip.

Hillary appears to be the best and she's hungry. I marvel at that kind of political skill and desire. For all his evil, I also marvel at Karl Rove, what James Carville did in 1992, how Jimmy Carter pulled it together in 1976, how in 1990 Ann Richards ran against all odds and capitalized on the one fatal mistake Clayton Williams made with a tasteless joke. Lee Atwater revolutionized politics, not for the better but he single-handedly changed how politics is played out. Newt Gingrich is another great. There are many other great stories of great politicians and how they win. But I put Hillary in the category of one of the two best politically skilled people we've ever seen, the other being Bill.

[dionysus]

66. he responded to her insult, what planet are you on?

[Lord Helmet]

24. Dude, you mentioned Dean and Pavlov's dog barked.

[ruggerson]

25. I noticed n/t

[madfloridian]

27. Cute. Hitting someone when they are down is not needed.

Really cute. Shows a mindset.

[DemBones DemBones]

67. I knew he was asking for it, pissing off the Deaniacs *and* the Obamaians. nt

[madfloridian]

28. Pavlov's doggie here: Obama and Hillary feuding...

must attack Dean.

:rofl:

[madfloridian]

29. When you post 3 way flamebait....you gotta expect anything. Right??

Right.

[zulchzulu]

31. It's like the World started in 2004 for some people...

Dean was Dean. What happened to him is what Dean and Trippi did.

It has nothing to do with this year's race. Unless you live in a World when 2004 is the only comparison that you use as a template, sure it's "Deaned".

Clinton started the fire and it's going to burn her. Obama is just bringing it right back at her.

[madfloridian]

41. That's not like you to say things like that.

The world started in 2004?

It is like the DLC talks to us, and it is not like you.

We became involved in politics in 2003 because of Dean. I make no apologies for that.

[zulchzulu]

52. I don't think the World started in '04

Did you misread what I wrote? Sorry if it was confusing...

I've been involved in politics since I was a kid, thanks to my father. That was way before Dean made the scene. :hi:

I think that people, for some reason, only apply the 2004 election template to this race. I think it's more like 1968 than 2004 myself. I'm not saying it IS 1968...

As for Howard, he is an excellent person...hands down.

[lesab]

32. I think you're wrong....

I loved his reply. TRUTHFULL! What a concept. If that puts his campaign at a disadvantage then so what. I like him more for it not less. She is the one who started throwing punches, he didn't just take it. He showed the differences between him and her and again he did it truthfully.

[maximusveritas]

34. I love how you say he's calling her names, but she just offered "criticisms"

Like calling him "irresponsible" and "naive"? Are those not names?

The double standard is disturbing.

[Sparkly]

35. Do you have a link or a quote to his "hyper passionate" name-calling? nt

[Ethelk2044]

36. Wrong Obama is playing a different game. However, when you hit he will respond

She was Naive to think he would not hit her back and hit hard. He told her that out of the gate. She was a fool to make that statement now she is paying the price.

[gulliver]

38. Agreed. Amazingly (to me) Obama has made me rethink Hillary

Obama was my favorite among the announced candidates. But this last debate, and his referring to Hillary as "Bush/Cheney lite" made me see another side of him. At the debate, I found him unpersuasive and green. I expected to find Hillary flinty, paranoid, and entitled, but I didn't.

But any Democrat who refers to Hillary as "Bush/Cheney lite" is just lying to the people. He really needs to apologize. It was a Naderish and foolish thing to say. It's worse than Hillary's reaction to Geffen's support of Obama earlier in the campaign.

Obama screwed up in the debate by saying he would meet with Castro and Kim Jong-Il "without precondition" and in his "first year" as president. What a dumb answer! I don't think he heard the question. Hillary had the better answer by far.

But Obama did not correct himself as far as I know. That makes me think either he or his campaign want to address the gaffe by hoping it goes away. Where have I seen that approach before in Dem presidential politics?

I agree with your analysis. Obama blew it by attacking Hillary. Calling her "Bush/Cheney lite" is snide and false. He undermined his campaign's main rationale. Although I think Hillary has no business running for president merely because she is Bill's wife, she looks more presidential than Obama right now.

Let's see if he recovers.

[eweaver155]

42. Wrong - She is actling like Bush not wanting to talk to the enemy

It is not only Bush war. It is her war. She pushed this war and therefore at fault. We do not need someone in the White House with her decision making skills. We will end up in another war.


You gotta think that people within the Clinton camp are realizing what a mistake going after Obama on this was. She actually didn't need to say a thing, she made her point during the debate and it was pretty widely reported. What Clinton did in going after him as she did was give him the license to retaliate without being charged with hypocrisy for engaging in the same politics he claims to be fighting against.



http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/7/26/15539/9321#commentt...

[AndreaCG]

50. YOU are wrong. She said no such thing.

What she said is before she met with them is have diplomatic envoys meet with their people to set an agenda for the talks, so as not to be used as propaganda.

[Ethelk2044]

55. I am correct. She did Speak up for the war. She was one of those

speaking out front for the war strongly trying to justify the reasons for going to war. She does not even have the guts to apologize for her vote for the war. I will give you some of her own words to assist you in remembering.

http://clinton.senate.gov/speeches/iraq_101002.html

Today we are asked whether to give the President of the United States authority to use force in Iraq should diplomatic efforts fail to dismantle Saddam Hussein's chemical and biological weapons and his nuclear program.

I am honored to represent nearly 19 million New Yorkers, a thoughtful democracy of voices and opinions who make themselves heard on the great issues of our day especially this one. Many have contacted my office about this resolution, both in support of and in opposition to it, and I am grateful to all who have expressed an opinion.

I also greatly respect the differing opinions within this body. The debate they engender will aid our search for a wise, effective policy. Therefore, on no account should dissent be discouraged or disparaged. It is central to our freedom and to our progress, for on more than one occasion, history has proven our great dissenters to be right.

Now, I believe the facts that have brought us to this fateful vote are not in doubt. Saddam Hussein is a tyrant who has tortured and killed his own people, even his own family members, to maintain his iron grip on power. He used chemical weapons on Iraqi Kurds and on Iranians, killing over 20 thousand people. Unfortunately, during the 1980's, while he engaged in such horrific activity, he enjoyed the support of the American government, because he had oil and was seen as a counterweight to the Ayatollah Khomeini in Iran.

In 1991, Saddam Hussein invaded and occupied Kuwait, losing the support of the United States. The first President Bush assembled a global coalition, including many Arab states, and threw Saddam out after forty-three days of bombing and a hundred hours of ground operations. The U.S.-led coalition then withdrew, leaving the Kurds and the Shiites, who had risen against Saddam Hussein at our urging, to Saddam's revenge.

[illinoisprogressive]

59. Clinton's claims of being lied to is just her playing victim.

[elizm]

45. What planet do you live on?

Hillary is reacting to this spat with a holier than thou, smug attitude. She threw the first punch calling Obama naive....Are you suggesting he should have just sucked it up? Who the hell do you/she think she is? Obama responded in the only way he should have...to point out where SHE is naive. Now she says this is just silliness and tries to blame Obama for turning negative. This will come back to bite her on the ass as people are going to see her true colors. I used to say that I did not dislike Hillary...that what made me angry was that she had been preordained as our nominee. After today, I can now say....I 'dislike' Hillary herself and I will NEVER,EVER vote for her. She is cold and calculating and just a downright you-know-what.

[MGKrebs]

47. The thing is, you can be perfect on the issues, but if you can't run the

campaign to match, it doesn't matter. Team Obama is doing well but they are up against a really superbly run campaign. The Clinton campaign is showing an amazing amount of sophistication. They know when to hit and how hard, when to ignore, when to tell a joke, when to turn the page. Every day they find or make an opportunity to control the debate. It's possible the biggest danger is that they will peak too early and people will burn out on their dominance. But I'll bet they even have a page in the playbook for that scenario.

[ruggerson]

49. I'm impressed as well

I'm fine with either one of them as our nominee (tho I will vote in the primary for JRE), but watching her campaign is really fascinating. The conventional wisdom is that she will never match her husband. The calm, tough, but humorous persona that she is projecting could just end up eclipsing him down the road, because she's FAR more disciplined than he was.

[AtomicKitten]

64. yep.

The campaigns are unfolding and it is amazing to watch the Battle of the Titans, and I do think it really is that now regardless of the resistance of many here at DU. It is what it is.

I'm rooting for Obama and have to say I remain THRILLED that he is giving Hillary a run for her money. It's good for everyone concerned. Chances are excellent one or the other will be sworn in on 1/20/09, and the best part is I really have no clue who it will be.

[Bread and Circus]

53. No, they found Saddam, that's what did Dean in and elevated Mr. 3purple hearts

to win the nomination.

The moment they caught Saddam, we needed a "tough military guy".

Clark didn't get picked because he wasn't an insider and wasn't owed enough favors.

Dean didn't implode after he lost Iowa though, because he lost his composure.

However, Dean has grown 10 feet in my eyes. I respect him now more than ever. And he's a fellow primary care physician!!!

[BeyondGeography]

54. Dean was wound tight as a drum; Obama's fist is wrapped in a velvet glove

Two completely different styles...and an inane post by you.

[madfloridian]

58. And not exactly a tactful remark by you.

The Hillary and Obama supporters think they don't need the rest of us.

I have news for them.....we still vote.

[sendero]

57. We'll see in the polling..

... personally, I don't think there is much to lose in standing up to Hillary. She's not mother teresa and nobody but the terminally delusional thinks she is.

She has a reputation and going up against her is not going to be a liability.

IMHO.

[illinoisprogressive]

60. Obama is not one to run from a fight if attacked. She was warned.

[Imagevision]

63. Like it or not I disagree, I believe Obama would make a better leader then Hillary...

[Scriptor Ignotus]

70. nobody predicted Obama would be this close to winning

the nomination from Hillary. NOBODY. Keeping that in mind, you have to admit he's running a pretty strong campaign. You don't like how he handled the recent dust-up? That's fine, but I hope you realize there are videos out there showing how Hillary has contradicted herself. His critique of her not criticizing Bush's lack of an exit plan is sound and accurate. I think in the long run Obama will come out on top, at least as far as this particular exchange is concerned. Obama was right on Iraq, Hillary was wrong. She will have a difficult time explaining how she has better judgment on foreign policy matters when she fumbled on the Iraq issue, the biggest foreign policy mistake this country has made in the modern era.

[beastieboy]

73. This was a bad fight for him to pick.

By keeping this going it just brings more attention to the fact that he doesn't know what he is doing. He should have come out afterward and agreed with Hillary. If he had said "of course she is right, there is no way I would meet without certain contingencies" then it would have been over. This was a big mistake.