Breaking: Hillary's Campaign is No Longer "Flawless"

[David Zephyr]

Well, I can now report that I can officially retire the "Flawless" mantle that I'd given up to this point to the Hillary Clinton Campaign. A screw-up was certain to come, but this one is a doozy.

Hillary's calling Senator Barack Obama "naive" regarding his short answer in the CNN debate the other night was not just a mistake, but a big one. Why?

Because it was Hillary Clinton who NAIVELY believed George W. Bush's lies and false intelligence before voting to allow Bush to make war with Iraq. She has said that the President "misled" her...just as she said her husband once "misled" her. Talk about naive.

When many other Democrats in Congress voted against the Iraqi War Resolution, Hillary took her stand with the neo-cons and the warmongers. Worse, she recently admitted that she "never" read the full intelligence report presented as the rationale for this stupid and immoral war.

Senator Obama was right about Iraq and Hillary was wrong. Calling Obama "naive" about foreign affairs begs investigation into her participation in the worse strategic international mistake in American history.

She was "misled".

Talk about "naive".

I hereby remove the FLAWLESS HALO from the Clinton Campaign that I had given it.

[DS1]

1. That wasn't naive. It's naive to even suggest that.

There's no way she believed it, but she went along with the lie in order to look tough. Just like many other Senators did.

[David Zephyr]

3. Hillary's words, not mine. She's made her first really big mistake in her campaign.

Further, attacking a popular guy like Obama and calling him naive makes her look strident and petty and opportunistic with primary voters.

Believe me, this will hurt her far more than it will Obama.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

13. If her utterance of the word "naive" in reference to another candidate, in a political debate, is a

big mistake how does Romney get a pass saying he wants to double the size the Guantanemo?

Manufactured by the corporomedia who want politics to be The View or The Today Show.

MKJ

[KaptBunnyPants]

22. Because the media assumes that Republican voters are insane and Republican politicians are lying.

It was an odd move for Clinton, to go negative when you are well ahead of your closest opponent.

[David Zephyr]

23. KaptBunnyPants

Yeah, she had reached the 40% mark and was sailing along and now she's made this "odd move" as you call it. Using the word "naive" in a fight that re-inforces all of the negative sterotyping she's had to deal with already. She was ahead and somehow, someone told her to make this move. "Odd move" indeed.

[KaptBunnyPants]

27. I think a lot of people are tired of being called naive.

Especially in the Democratic caucus, which was never really convinced about Iraq to begin with. All the wise Party leaders, including the Clinton's, just told us that they knew better. Not the kind of memory she wants to invoke. It's probably too early to really hurt her now, though. Maybe it'll light a fire under Obama.

[John Q. Citizen]

26. Romney gets away with it because his voters are scared, authoritarian, bigots.

But what else is new?

[DS1]

17. The second line of my reply title was deep sarcasm

as in, FU Hillary

[David Zephyr]

19. Got it.

:)

[msongs]

2. the laird giveth and the laird taketh away lol nt

[David Zephyr]

4. and blessed be the name of the laird...

:)

[More Than A Feeling]

5. You mean, Hillary Clinton isn't going to be the Harold Ford of 2008?

With the campaign that media and insiders drool over, but who couldn't excite someone on speed with their stances on the issues, and so loses a close race?

[Bread and Circus]

6. She wasn't being naive, she was just voting out of political expendiency then and lieing now

She new what she was doing then. The "Bush tricked me" bit is just a ruse. She just didn't expect the war to go as goddam badly as it has and she didn't expect Mr. 92% was going to become Mr. 28%.

Think context folks.

[David Zephyr]

9. Of coure she was being expedient, but she told the world she was "misled"

You state the obvious. We all know why she voted for the war: Bush was popular back then.

But...

Her publicly stated and defacto excuse for voting for the war has been that she was "misled" and she now has to live with that excuse which is why making a public assertion that Senator Obama is "naive" makes her look ridiculous. Naive is a word that Mrs. Clinton should use in her campaign. Especially with the memory of Monica Lewinski still hovering over campaign.

She can't call Obama "naive" without conjuring up all the rest. It's a huge mistake that will cost her in the polls.

[Bread and Circus]

18. I agree with you 100% on your analysis of this situation. I just wanted to remind

people of what really happened.

If Obama's camp doesn't run with this, then they will likely lose. On the other hand, if they really hammer Hillary hard on her trimming and triangulating and paint her as the ambitious do/vote/say anything to win an election politician that she is, he might win. However, that will make him lose the "run the positive campaign" high ground.

[illinoisprogressive]

7. The question asked if they would be willing. willing is not absolute so, Hillary made a huge one

[Tom Joad]

8. flawless? she reeks of corporate pandering just like Bill

[Bread and Circus]

20. I think he means flawless in the political sense, not the moral and ethical ones.

[David Zephyr]

21. Thanks.

Tom Joad (how can you not love someone with that name?) is spot on about the Clinton being the corporate favorite of all the Democratic candidates, but I thank you for pointing out that I am only talking about her political campaign. :)

[ruggerson]

10. Ok, so we know you don't like Edwards or CLinton

who do you like?

[David Zephyr]

11. I'll support any Democrat that is nominated including Clinton and Edwards.

This is about her campaign, not her politics.

This fight she's picking with Obama will hurt her more than him.

[ruggerson]

12. I don't think she's picking a fight

I think she's choosing political battles rather wisely, and frankly his comments about meeting with dictators in his very first year in office was plain dumb. Ever spent time in Miami? There ain't a Cuban down there who appreciated that remark, and I think Obama just made Florida very difficult for him to capture in the G.E.

[David Zephyr]

15. You don't believe that right wing Cubans will vote for Hillary, do you?

Come on ruggerson, you don't actually believe that these rightwing Cubans "down there" that you are conjuring up would ever vote for Hillary Clinton, the friend of Janet Reno, over a Republican, do you?

That aside, I see this as a gigantic error by her campaign, and one that I imagine they are going to begin to downplay with speed. Up until now, her negatives were dropping (they are still too high), her composure and "above it all" stature was working for her. Now she's carping away about a guy that the American people like feeding into the image that the GOP has a majority of Americans believe which is that she is "divisive" and "strident"...the very thing she has been so successful at disproving until now.

This hurts Clinton, not Obama.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

14. Edwards said during one of the debates...it was "the Clintons" who advised him to sign the IRW.

...Anyone who gave the PNAC-pack the OK to go to war in the Middle East, should not be our president.

[NYCGirl]

16. And he was the one who was on the Intelligence Committee! NT

[sandnsea]

24. I would love to have that quote

That's what I've been saying for a while, and EDWARDS people are attacking me as a conspiracy nut.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

28. Yes, Edwards did blame the Clintons for his IWR vote.

I remember Hillary talking about her IWR vote, she spoke about getting "advice" from “past administrations”. ...Then it was Edwards turn to speak.

I remember thinking how he reminded me of a little kid who got caught on the playground doing something he shouldn't have been doing. ...He walked to the side of his podium and lifted his finger pointing towards Hillary. He too spoke about talking to “past administrations”...then he out and out said, he spoke to the “Clintons”.

...It bother me because I knew he co-sponsored Lieberman’s IWR; I figure he had to be one of the first Senators to see the resolution; he had to have the most time to think about it.

[LittleClarkie]

33. Seems like Hillary counseled Kerry too, iirc

saying he'd need to have voted for the IWR later for the campaign. I don't know if he listened to her or took his own path to his vote. All I know is he and Edwards have apologized for their votes and she hasn't.

[sandnsea]

25. It highlighted her biggest flaw

Her desire to be tough at any cost led her to miss the fact that Democrats want a President who doesn't thnk "prestige" is more important than solutions. She's made a lot of mistakes because she is convinced she has to be the toughest broad since Thatcher to win. It will end up being her downfall because she's not making good decisions with that attitude. Her "Stay the Course" decision being worse than the vote itself.

[PurityOfEssence]

29. That pretty much sums it up

The no-nonsense and rock-solid schtick is a tad out of fashion of late...

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

30. I don't think she was as naive as she was reckless

Here's her speech given on the Senate floor just before the vote on the IWR:

http://clinton.senate.gov/speeches/iraq_101002.html

First, she stated that she welcomed the toppling of Saddam, giving support to the Bill Clinton policy for regime change in Iraq:

"...In 1998, the United States also changed its underlying policy toward Iraq from containment to regime change and began to examine options to effect such a change, including support for Iraqi opposition leaders within the country and abroad. ..."

Therefore, the ultimate Bush goal of regime change was one she favored as well. The issue was how to go about it.

In Hillary's defense, she did state that she was not in favor of a unilateral action against Saddam at that time. But nor was she in favor of placing the decision to go to war entirely in the hands of the UN, as she assumed the idea would be vetoed in the Security Council. In her speech, Hillary pushed for one final round of inspections in Iraq and if Saddam did not comply, then she would favor the invasion. However, she plainly stated that the IWR did not offer enough assurances that Bush would seek thorough UN authorization. She was AWARE of the flaw in the IWR and nonetheless voted for it. Instead, she said she took the President at his word that he would first seek to exhaust all diplomatic remedies through inspections:

"...President Bush's speech in Cincinnati and the changes in policy that have come forth since the Administration began broaching this issue some weeks ago have made my vote easier. Even though the resolution before the Senate is not as strong as I would like in requiring the diplomatic route first and placing highest priority on a simple, clear requirement for unlimited inspections, I will take the President at his word that he will try hard to pass a UN resolution and will seek to avoid war, if at all possible. ..."

To vote for a war resolution in which she herself KNEW the language did not require Bush to exhaust the diplomatic route to me is less naive than it is a reckless gamble ("the resolution before the Senate is not as strong as I would like in requiring the diplomatic route first"). She clearly understood the risks and did not press for a better war resolution. Perhaps to her the risk was worth taking, however, as she was a strong proponent of regime change. I'm not saying it makes her unfit for office. I'll still vote for her if she's the Democratic candidate. But it was very disappointing to me.

[BenDavid]

31. So, you voted for Kerry in 04 who

just happened to agree to the resolution like Clinton. So, it is all HRC's fault? Hell no....and I guess Obama was for pre conditions before he was for them...uh huh a flip flopper here...In a pre debate interview with a columist for the Miami Hearld Obama said that he would meet with Chavez but he would stipulate that he would only do so " UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS"
"UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS" did ya catch that and by the time he went to the debate his position changed....Yes Obama is NAIVE....and wayyyyyyyyy
INEXPERIENCED.....

I do thank you
Ben David

[Virginian]

32. She is also being misled into increasing the number of H-1B visas.

This Indian caucus she is involved in is not good for American workers. She is being misled into believing there aren't enough American IT professionals.

If they don't quit bringing in Indians to take away the cream of the jobs Americans DO want, there will be fewer students studying IT and we really will have a shortage.

Why should Americans pay LOTS of money for an education the Indians get for free and then have to compete with people from foreign countries for jobs in the field. How are they going to pay off their student loans if they can't get the jobs in their field?

I will not vote for her in the primary, but if she is the candidate of the party I will support the party's candidate in the General election.