NYT discusses Biden's Plan for Iraq

[Jillian]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/29/weekinreview/29cooper.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1185667781-wCCTFeIDBv9PjCrEZcymBw&oref=slogin

Iraq Math: From One, Make Three

By HELENE COOPER
Published: July 29, 2007

excerpts:


IS Joe Biden auditioning to be the next secretary of state?
For the record, he says no. Actually, he said, “Hell, no,” during an interview last week.

What he does have, that the other Democratic candidates don’t, is a coherent proposal for dealing with the debacle in Iraq that is increasingly picking up steam. Foreign policy analysts, Capitol Hill politicians and even officials in the Bush administration have started sounding positive notes.

“The truth is, we could end up close to the Biden-Gelb proposal,” a senior administration official said, referring to the partition plan that Mr. Biden, along with Leslie Gelb, the former president of the Council on Foreign Relations, presented more than a year ago in an Op-Ed article in The New York Times.

The reality is, Iraq’s cities have become far more homogeneous recently as terrified residents have fled areas where their ethnic group doesn’t predominate. The neighborhoods around the edges of Baghdad have already experienced a lot of ethnic cleansing.

testimony and interviews this month about conditions in Iraq indicated that the administration is already making de facto moves towards partition.

The State Department, in particular, has stressed a proposal to build up provincial reconstruction teams out in the Iraqi provinces, with the goal of strengthening local tribal leaders. That, in itself, points toward greater decentralization in Iraq.

-----------------------------------

Wouldn't that just make you scream if all along Biden was right.
And Iraq would have been better than it is, and less of our troops would have been injured or lost their lives??

[KT2000]

1. People have criticized this

but it makes more sense than anything else.
Before the invasion the three groups were supressed by Saddam Hussein. With the lid off - they are all going to vie for power. That is what the neocons should have known BEFORE they started this war.
No matter what the US does, there will still be three separate groups.
Why not acknowledge that and find a way for the three groups to co-exist - which would likely mean sharing the oil revenue.

[IndianaGreen]

2. It is to the Iraqi people to decide their fate, not the USA or Biden

All Iraqis celebrated when their soccer team won a match a couple of days ago. They didn't divide themselves as Sunni, Shia, or Kurds.

Let's stop meddling in the Middle East and get the fuck out!

[jillan]

3. That's just it, the Iraqi's are doing it themselves.

They are moving into their own regions for safety.

I agree with the OP, what if this could have been done right over a year ago?

[KT2000]

4. Before we leave

there must be something in place that has the possibility of bringing order to the whole of Iraq - something that can be enforced by the Iraqis themselves.
If we leave without such a thing, all of the deaths of the resulting chaos will be on us.

Like it or not, it was our "kid" who took the car and smashed up the neighborhood. Walking away from the damage that has already been done without at least a plan for order is not right.

Yes - we need to get out of there, with deep consideration of the innocent people whose lives have been destroyed by the United States of America.

[Jillian]

5. What would be the worst case scenario - if we leave, and then have to back.

That is what Biden warns about.

He talks about not wanting his grandkids having to go to Iraq.

What have we done?:mad:

[Like It Is]

7. Why don't you go show us the way! n/t

[IndianaGreen]

8. We made a mess of Iraq when we toppled the Baathists.

We should leave the Middle East altogether.

The people of Iraq are descendants from a civilization more ancient than our own rather newbie one. They are the people that build the first city at Ur, the home of Abraham.

We should pack our bags and leave those people alone. They will work it out by themselves, without any help from Christians or from people suffering from "white man's burden."

[Like It Is]

9. We should have never invaded Iraq, but we did.

We should at least try to help fix it. I'll agree we would be better off with Saddam in charge.

[murbley40]

11. I don't know.......

We broke it and we should try to fix it. Biden's plan seems the only way to go.

[newyawker99]

12. Hi murbley40!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Like It Is]

21. Ditto. My thoughts exactly. n/t

[rucky]

15. Iraq was artificially unified by the Brits in 1920.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Iraq#Turkish_conquest

Britain imposed a Hāshimite monarchy on Iraq and defined the territorial limits of Iraq without taking into account the politics of the different ethnic and religious groups in the country, in particular those of the Kurds to the north. During the British occupation the Shiates and Kurds fought for independence. Britain used chemical weapons (white phosphorus bombs) against Kurdish villagers in the revolt, an early application of aerial bombing.

[IndianaGreen]

self-delete n/t

n/t

[IndianaGreen]

17. Every country in the Middle East is an artificial construct, including Israel

Iraqis of all stripes and walks of life demonstrated as one nation when their national football (soccer) team won the Asia Cup from Saudi Arabia. There is more than unites the Iraqis than divides them, despite the best efforts by Al-Qaeda and Kurdish separatists.

We should leave them alone. By God, the harm we have done to that nation cries to the Heavens for justice!

[rucky]

18. I think we both agree to leave them alone.

We just have differing views on what natural state they'll be returning to. If there is the harmony you describe, then the three nations should be peaceful to each other. But there IS a civil war going on right now, and it's ethnically divided. We don't have to occupy to broker a peace deal that would keep it from escalating in the power vacuum we've left for them.

[Like It Is]

6. Robert Gates must have read the Biden/Gelb Plan for Iraq.

I seriously believe that he has Petraeus starting to implement it Militarily. But they need to get Bush and the Iraqi Government to implement it Politically.

[rabidchickens]

10. Nothing anti-democratic about a federation

After all Iraq's boundaries are hardly that historic, i think this is the only solution. A confederation instead of a unitary.

[jillan]

16. Welcome to DU rabidchickens!!

You are right, Iraq is a relatively new country.

And what they had and have is not working. Unfortunately we stuck our nose in there,
and made it even worse.

[Like It Is]

23. Iraq was better under Saddam than it is now !

Iraq under Saddam was a buffer against Iran. Now Iran has an open road to Lebanon.

[rucky]

13. This is the inevitable resolution for Iraq.

If they can work out the whole "who gets the oil" thang.

[Like It Is]

14. That's Easy, Proportionate to Population.

The Shiites and Kurds have about all the oil, they need to give the Sunnis about 20% of the revenue.

[rucky]

19. And who escrows it?

Arab League, maybe?

[Like It Is]

20. That's not for you or me to decide. n/t

[Like It Is]

22. See Biden this morning on the Early Show.

And this evening on Hardball.