What did Obama do/say about Iraq when he was a Senator?

[draft_mario_cuomo]

Honest question. No flames, please.

[msongs]

1. he still is a senator nt

[draft_mario_cuomo]

2. I am aware of that

;)

[illinoisprogressive]

5. you don't say what it is about. what issue. he said alot of things.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

6. The war in general. What were his votes, speeches, did he lead to end the war, etc. nt

[draft_mario_cuomo]

3. Anyone? nt

[illinoisprogressive]

4. he is still a senator

[mucifer]

7. Here is a video clip of Obama speaking re: Iraq in 2002 when he was a

State Senator in IL. It's very impressive:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXzmXy226po

But, like everyone else who replied to you here, I don't get your question.

[Catchawave]

9. I get the question....his positions on Iraq "since" becoming

a Senator?

[draft_mario_cuomo]

10. He wasn't in the U.S. senate at the time. What has he done in the U.S. senate? nt

[Ethelk2044]

13. Why did Edwards vote for the war?

[draft_mario_cuomo]

15. Ask him. He'll tell you nt

[Tellurian]

17. Thanks for posting the UTube vid...Obama clearly would have voted FOR the War..

It was a Roll Call Vote... He would have voted "YES"!

Obama said clearly he would have voted "NAY" if it were an UP or DOWN Vote...

The vote wasn't UP or Down.. So, he's agreeing with those who at the time voted FOR THE WAR!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXzmXy226po

He's been lying all this time saying, he wouldn't have voted for the war!

[Joe the Revelator]

31. Stop the lies!

There is absolutely no way you can tell what he would do during a roll call vote. The only thing he is clear on is that he would have voted against the war.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

32. Here is what he said on that subject

Notice the fudging (italicized) a Harvard-educated lawyer would certainly be aware of? So if he were in Congress he could have seen the facts differently and voted differently. He did not give a clear "no, I would have never voted for this dumb war."

==MR. RUSSERT: You also said this: "...I also know that Saddam possesses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history." The nominee of your party, John Kerry, the nominee for vice president, John Edwards, all said he was an imminent threat. They voted to authorize George Bush to go to war. How could they have been so wrong and you so right as a state legislator in Illinois and they're on the Foreign Relations and Intelligence committees in Washington?
STATE SEN. OBAMA: Well, I think they have access to information that I did not have. And what is absolutely clear is that John Kerry said, "If we go into war, let's make sure that we do it right. Let's make sure that our troops are supported. Let's make sure that we have the kind of coalition that's necessary to succeed." And the execution of what was a difficult choice to make was something that all of us have to be concerned about. And moving forward, the only way that we're going to be able to succeed is if, I think, we have an administration led by John Kerry that's going to allow us to consolidate the relationships with our allies that bring about investment in Iraq.
MR. RUSSERT: But if you had been a senator at that time, you would have voted not to authorize President Bush to go to war?
STATE SEN. OBAMA: I would have voted not to authorize the president given the facts as I saw them at that time.
MR. RUSSERT: So you disagree with John Kerry and John Edwards?
STATE SEN. OBAMA: At that time, but, as I said, I wasn't there and what is absolutely clear as we move forward is that if we don't have a change in tone and a change in administration, I think we're going to have trouble making sure that our troops are secure and that we succeed in Iraq.==

[Joe the Revelator]

33. I'm pretty sure I just watched a video posted by tellurian saying he would vote nay....

but even if that was a figment of my imagination, there is no indication, as implied by the post I responded to, that he would have voted FOR the war.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

34. See my update to post 32 nt

[Joe the Revelator]

37. Ok, so if we're going to make assumptions...

one can say that even after seeing the information that he did not have access to he would not have voted for the war.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

40. He probably would not have but it is hardly the clear-cut issue that some advertise it as

There is a reason he has voted with Clinton 99% of the time on Iraq...

[Tellurian]

42. The video, which btw was posted by mucifier upthread..

after viewing..Obama said: If it had been an UP or DOWN Vote he would have voted NAY...It wasn't an up or down vote it was a Roll Call Vote! Clever couching of words that apparently has gone unnoticed until now!

[Joe the Revelator]

It's a dangerous job-

putting words in peoples mouths with no evidence. In fact, I've seen you go from thread to thread screaming "Show proof! Show Proof!" when people make statements about Saint Hillary. Why not hold yourself to those same standards?

[Tellurian]

45. The proof is simple. Was it an Up or Down Vote..

That video was done on 11/02. Obama was couching his words. He knew exactly what he was saying because he wanted to have it both ways. He was safe in saying if it were an up or down vote that would be a NO...and a Roll Call vote, which it was, would mean a YES!

[draft_mario_cuomo]

47. Let's look at the rest of his record for clues

Nov. 2005: Obama opposed Jack Murtha's call for an immediate end to the war
Jun. 2006: Obama opposed the Kerry-Feingold amendment, which would have ended the war this month
2007: Obama opposed cutting off funds for the escalation

[Joe the Revelator]

48. Apparently we need to break this down...

At anytime does Obama say that if it was a roll call vote he would have voted yes? (Please back your answer up with specific citation).

[Tellurian]

51. The video posted by mucifier is 11/02 while BO was a State Senator..

He was still a state senator at the time of the interview. He also knows the difference between an UP and Down Vote and a Roll Call Vote. The IWR Vote took place in Oct 02'. The month before his interview in Nov 02'

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=2&vote=00237

[Joe the Revelator]

52. You're not answering the question

You appear to have infallible proof that he would have voted yes on a roll call vote. I'm asking you where you heard that.

[Tellurian]

64. Your aren't disputing what I've written..

you're ignoring the proof and pretending not to understand the ramifications of what Obama said in the video.

You can feign ignorance all you want to...it doesn't make Obama's 11/02 IWR Vote statement which will be examined by others, as any less true.

[Joe the Revelator]

67. This is ridiculous

You haven't presented anything but conjecture,which I have responded to by asking you to provide some type of citation as to your accusation of Obama's position. You are apparently unwilling or, more then likely, unable to do so.

[Tellurian]

68. No, it's not ridiculous... it's problematic..

A statement has been posed with proof to verify an assertion. I'm sure this will be picked up and examined by others as to the
viability of the assertion. Perhaps someone will ask Obama for clarification of his statement. It certainly does cast a question mark as to why Obama clearly states in the video, had it been an up or down vote he would have voted "nay" with Sen Durbin...knowing full well it was a Roll Call vote, where each senator explains their vote.

Where Obama chose to give a subjective answer rather than a plain "yes" or "no" to a direct question...my conclusion naturally is from a subjective point of view in line with his subjective response. The give away is, Obama was aware of how Sen Durbin voted, yet he added the caveat, if it were an up or down vote, he would have voted with Durbin..It wasn't. It was a Roll Call Vote, where each senator has an oral vote that is recorded. The obvious conclusion is if it was an oral vote he would have voted "Yea"..

[Catchawave]

46. I remember that....thanks for finding the transcript n/t

[draft_mario_cuomo]

60. No problem

:hi:

[Tellurian]

39. Listen to it again...He says IF it were an up or down vote he would have voted NAY

IT wasn't, it was a Roll Call Vote which he is entirely aware of, meaning he would have voted "Yea" for the War!

[killbotfactory]

66. This is getting idiotic

I hope you're having fun with this never ending spin machine immitation, because it's becoming insufferable.

[geek tragedy]

8. His legislation to end the war drew 63 Congressional co-sponsors,

including members of three political parties.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

11. In 2007 when he was running for prez. What did he do in 2005 and 2006?

And has that legislation made it to the senate floor? Or has it had the same fate as HRC's 2007 bill to cap troop levels?

[geek tragedy]

14. Do you want to care Iraq-related voting records? eom

[draft_mario_cuomo]

16. I want to know if Obama's record matches up to his current rhetoric and the hype

Is he the anti-war crusader we are told he is? What is it that Obama did as a Senator that shows action to back up the claim he is an anti-war crusader? If you can provide me with a reasonably impressive list of actions I'll retract my statements that Obama's actions haven't matched the hype about him when it comes to Iraq.

[geek tragedy]

18. He introduced legislation to end the war--twice actually.

But if Harry Reid won't let it go to the floor, it's not going anywhere.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

20. What did he do before he began running for president?

That legislation was a token gesture and identical to Clinton's plan for Iraq. ;)

[bling bling]

21. That looks familiar. Where have I seen that *exact* request before?

You're ridiculously silly. Seriously.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3412137&mesg_id=3412759

[draft_mario_cuomo]

22. Any answer?

So it is silly when the same thing is done regarding your candidate? :)

[bling bling]

25. No it's silly that you copy-cat my words over in this stupid thread.

You never answered my question over there. It was meant to be an honest relevant discussion and/or debate. But you just divert, distract, and distract some more.

You hyper-post and basically spam a thread about Edwards so that it's so filled with your nonsense that nobody can even follow it.

Then you start a copy-cat thread and copy cat questions that were posed about Edwards. Questions that you never answered about Edwards.

You're like a child. They need to create a GD-Playpen forum for some of you to go play in. This place is fucking stupid lately.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

28. We can't ask the same kind of questions about Obama that you guys ask of Edwards?

Did I miss the coronation? :)

[Catchawave]

12. How's that going?

[elizm]

19. What did YOUR candidate (Edwards) say about the war...

...when he was a Senator...besides co-sponsoring the IRW? People who live in glass houses....

[draft_mario_cuomo]

23. We know what he said

==People who live in glass houses....==

Indeed. That is precisely why this thread exists. ;)

[elizm]

You know what he said???

How does that answer the question of what he DID while he was a Senator. What he DID was COSPONSOR the IWR!

[draft_mario_cuomo]

29. We know what he did about the IWR. He admits it nt

[Tellurian]

24. ck.. yahoo..

[illinoisprogressive]

26. Obama tried to introduce the bill earlier but, Frist would not let it come up.

You forget the repukes were in control and Frist knocked down about 98% of Obama's bills.
Voting for funding means little as everyone knew A. that the repukes would make sure it went thru and B. Obama felt it was the responsible thing to do to make sure the troops got what they needed.
what many do not understand is reality. what is the reality. and some things are just a waste of time and energy. better to go at things in their own time.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

30. Did he show any leadership? Kerry got a timetable amendment through during Republican control

So it was not impossible. Funding matters. Voting to fund the war is a de facto vote to continue the war.

==Obama felt it was the responsible thing to do to make sure the troops got what they needed.==

That excuse was obliterated when he finally voted against funding the war during the last bill.

[illinoisprogressive]

27. Obama never claimed to be anti war. he is anti dumb war.

[jefferson_dem]

35. Self delete. Sorry.

Hiccup.

[jefferson_dem]

36. On that, he's about as right as you could get.

In fact, one would be hard pressed to identify a more nasty foreign policy blunder than this War, which we all know was authorized and promoted by two of the other "front-running" Democratic candidates.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

41. Who Obama sided with instead of with Rep. Murtha...see post #38 nt

[draft_mario_cuomo]

38. He seemed to have the same position as Clinton in November of 2005

==Wednesday, November 23, 2005; Page A03

CHICAGO, Nov. 22 -- Sen. Barack Obama said President Bush should admit mistakes in waging the Iraq war and reduce the number of troops stationed there in the next year. But the Illinois Democrat, a longtime opponent of the war, said U.S. forces remain "part of a solution" in the bitterly divided country and should not be withdrawn immediately.

Without citing specific numbers, Obama called for a "limited drawdown" of U.S. troops that would push the fragile Iraqi government to take more responsibility while deploying enough American soldiers to prevent the country from "exploding into civil war or ethnic cleansing or a haven for terrorism."==

==As other Democrats are finding their voice against Iraq policy, Obama took an approach closer to one taken by Senate Foreign Relations Committee colleague Joseph R. Biden Jr. (D-Del.) than to that of Rep. John P. Murtha (D-Pa.). Murtha, a former Marine, called last week for an immediate pullout of nearly 160,000 U.S. troops.

Four prospective Democratic presidential candidates -- Biden, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (N.Y.), Sen. John F. Kerry (Mass.) and former North Carolina senator John Edwards -- have advocated a more gradual approach, with no sudden steps. Biden called Monday for the withdrawal of 50,000 troops by the end of next year and all but 20,000 to 40,000 out by January 2008.==

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/22/AR2005112201661.html

[draft_mario_cuomo]

43. June 2006: Obama votes AGAINST Kerry-Feingold, which would have ended the war by July 2007

Like HRC, Obama voted against Kerry-Feingold. If that passed the war have ended this month...

[draft_mario_cuomo]

44. 2007: Obama (like Clinton) OPPOSED cutting off funds for the escalation

[TeamJordan23]

49. His good friend and fellow Senator, Durbin, voted against the war. nm

[draft_mario_cuomo]

54. And? Durbin also voted for Kerry-Feingold; Obama did not nt

[TeamJordan23]

50. Desperate thread by DMC, maybe you should read Obama's speech in 2002.

He spoke out against a time when it was considered political suicide. We all knew the information was unreliable. HRC and Edwards just decided to follow whatever the Chimp was saying at the time to scare the American people. If HRC and Edwards have so much experience and judgment, why did they give Bush unchecked authority to conduct the war (or try diplomacy). Maybe you should be asking that question instead.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

53. This thread was posted to expose the holloweness of the Team Obama thread on Edwards

You know, the one another BO fan posted and you posted before checking that someone had already followed marching orders before you...

[TeamJordan23]

56. Oh, its nice to see you making up stories. Can you tell me the story about why your candidates gave

Bush the unchecked authority to go into a war?

[draft_mario_cuomo]

57. My candidate has admitted it. He is not misrepresenting his history on Iraq nt

[TeamJordan23]

59. Admitted what? He made a mistake? What kind of judgment is that really? nm

[draft_mario_cuomo]

55. Was Obama in the Senate in 2002? nt

[TeamJordan23]

58. Did Obama oppose the war in 2002? and continue to have answer to constitutents about his speech? YES

to both questions.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

61. He wasn't a senator at the time. What did his liberal constituents think about the war btw?

We never hear about how his speech played in his district...

Obama netted David Axlerod and a top Chicago patron for making that speech. Making a speech that plays well with your base is a small price to pay for an obscure politician planning to run statewide in a Democratic primary given such rewards.

[TeamJordan23]

62. So only people who were in the Senate or House can run President and claim to be Anti-War?

I guess Al Gore has been a phony all these years than, huh? Kinda makes you wonder if they didn't care about or matter about the issue, why did they even go out of their way to make public speeches?

[draft_mario_cuomo]

63. No, you can be anti-war by...being anti-war like Kucinich has

Kucinich has never voted to fund the war and has consistently supported efforts to end the war. Once Obama acquired national power he turned into Hillary-lite. Obama sided with the Lieberman/Hillary wing of the party against Murtha in 2005, with Hillary and Lieberman against Kerry-Feingold (which would have ended the war this month...), and with Holy Joe and Hillary again on not defunding he escalation.

Obama has many qualities. However, he is not a real anti-war candidate. Kucinich is the only true anti-war candidate.

[TeamJordan23]

65. Because Al Gore and Obama did not vote on the Iraq War, should we dismiss their 2002 stance?