Even the Republicans are admitting Biden is Right!

[Like It Is]

From the Wichita Eagle:

Consider partitioning Iraq
Is partitioning Iraq an idea whose time has come? The idea of dividing Iraq into a loose federation of states -- proposed by Sens. Joseph Biden, D-Del., and Sam Brownback, R-Kan. --is attracting a growing group of lawmakers and foreign policy elders looking for a way to stabilize the country and bring our troops home.

The ongoing failure of Iraq's government to achieve unity and reconciliation makes partition look better and better.

President Bush has rejected the partition idea in the past, saying, "Success in Iraq requires a united Iraq."

But the definition of success in Iraq is evolving. The American public is increasingly impatient with the do-nothing Iraqi government and the lack of progress in the "surge."

Last December, Brownback observed that with outright U.S. military victory unlikely, the goal should be "political equilibrium," and partition could be one way to achieve that end.

The idea has been building momentum on Capitol Hill: Other high-profile conservatives, such as Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison of Texas, have endorsed the plan. Last week, influential New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman said partition should be on the table.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates and United Nations Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad are among Bush officials who reportedly have been quietly reconsidering the idea of a decentralized Iraq.

Under the plan, Iraq would be partitioned into three largely autonomous states -- Kurdish, Sunni and Shiite -- with a weak federal government in Baghdad to administer oil revenue.

Partition presents clear problems: Would a weak central government really be able to ensure that oil-poor Sunni regions get their share of revenue? Critics also point out that millions of Iraqis live as minorities in ethnically diverse neighborhoods; the logistics and cost of uprooting them would be daunting. Moreover, would the partition plan just give a green light to ethnic cleansing?

The reality, though, is that Iraqis already are being forced by the bloody civil war into ethnic and sectarian areas. Partition would only recognize and control what is already well under way and probably inevitable.

Partition is not a perfect answer. It could get ugly. Moreover, the Iraqis themselves must be sold on the idea. It can't be seen as being imposed by the United States. And at present, many Iraqis are skeptical of partition. But Biden said the plan offers "the possibility -- not the guarantee, but the possibility -- of a soft landing in Iraq."

With America facing mostly bad to terrible options in Iraq, partition could offer a pragmatic, bipartisan and responsible way out.

For the editorial board, Randy Scholfield

[LynneSin]

1. Biden is starting to impress me a bit - could be an underdog for pres

Although I yelled at their campaign staff to stop calling me, not ready to start campaigning for 2008.

I think it was Roling Stone that did a quick blurb on all the candidates asking them what their position was for 2008. Biden was the only candidate who started off his first sentence "We need to get our troops out of Iraq now".

I think he realizes that if he wants to get into the think of the hunt he has to get this war stopped now.

[Like It Is]

2. His War? Our war, or better yet Bush's War.

Bush has mismanaged it up to this point. There is no military solution, there must be a political solution.

[LynneSin]

3. **grumble** late night typos

I meant "THIS" war

thanks for the shout out!

:pals:

[WCGreen]

15. I see you still want more damn cowbells....

[saltpoint]

4. I hope nobody asks me to undo the damage George Bush has done in

the Middle East.

I'll do my part and be an informed voter and I'm voting Democratic all the way.

Just don't ask me to undo the damage single-handedly.

But if I were forced to undertake that challenge, I'd call in the best foreign policy minds to lend light and insight, and Joe Biden would be very near the top of that crop.

I think the Republicans are a bit stunned that there IS a plan, as opposed to the shitwork that Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Cheney threw together and called a policy. Biden's proposal is not going to restore an Edenic landscape by next weekend. But it's one hell of a lot more viable -- and historically respectful -- than anything else out there.

He's a good man.

[LynneSin]

5. You're right - Biden is probably the best when it comes to foreign policy

As my senator, I've had many opportunities to hear him speak in Delaware and even hobnob with him and his family at local events.

But man, the guy can turn himself into a pompous blowhard if you give him enough time & a microphone. What's worse is he'll shove his foot way into his mouth over something really stupid that wasn't meant to be (like the comment about Indians and Dunkin Donuts).

I don't think he'll get the nomination but I think he would be great in the cabinet of whomever is elected president (which will be a dem :D ). Delaware is a safe state and the next governor will be a dem who will replace Biden's seat with another democrat (hell probably with one of Biden's kids)

[Like It Is]

6. He who says nothing of note, never misspeaks. n/t

[saltpoint]

7. Lynne, I have read some of your posts on Biden on DU and

could tell before you even said so that you knew your Delaware politics.

Don't be surprised if you take on a heightened status as summer takes the turn into fall. I think Petraeus is going to try to soft-pedal the calamity -- or rather that he'll be under intense pressure to -- and that the public just isn't going to put up with it after mid-September and that the call for a withdrawal plan with specific dates will be demanded.

Bush's arrogance and petulance got him way farther than it ought to have, but I think he's done for on the bully pulpit and the flag-wrapping.

I'm glad there's a Democratic gov in Delaware. I think a Senate seat appointment is a real possibility. If Biden does not win the nomination, I hope whoever does appoints him Secretary of State. I think he's wildly qualified for the job and I'd feel a whole lot better having Joe Biden running international diplomacy than that repressed nitwit Condoleezza Rice.

[Like It Is]

8. I see someone else thinks like I do.

Condolezza is a disgrace, of course I'm sure Bush dictates to her. In that case, she should resign.

[saltpoint]

9. Hi, Like it Is. Yep -- we agree on Ms. Rice. A titanic failure in both

positionss she's held in the Bush adminsitration.

She ought to have stayed at Stanford and played Brahms on the weekends. We'd ALL be a lot better off.

[riqster]

25. Condi likes the way Bush's "Dic tates" nt

[IndianaGreen]

10. Biden is wrong! Neocons and neolibs think it will be easier to rip off Iraq's oil

if they partition the country as if it were an American colony.

Shame!

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[IndianaGreen]

17. I got news for you, Biden is not the head of the British Colonial Office

Look at how the partition of India worked out. Partitioning of Iraq will make that look like a picnic.

Americans don't know shit about the Middle East. The more we meddle in that region, the worse we make things.

Iraq is for the Iraqis. Americans should pack their bags and go home. We need our troops home to take care of all the problems caused by climate change.

[Like It Is]

19. You can't change History. We broke Iraq, we should fix it.

Or at least try. Iraq was created by the British in 1921. It should never have been created. A loose Federation of at least 3 States may solve the problem. We should give it a try.

[IndianaGreen]

21. Isn't that what the discredited Colin Powell used to say, "we broke it, we fix it?"

The following Middle Eastern countries were artificially created by the British, the French, or the UN: Lebanon, Israel, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Kuwait, Iraq, Oman, Yemen, Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Bahrain.

It is not up to us to redraw anyone's borders.

[Like It Is]

26. If we all were like you we would crawl into a cave for the duration.

We only need new leadership, Biden can provide that. We only have to be smart enough to select him.

[saltpoint]

12. I see the Kurds making it on their own -- economy and autonomy. They

were never on board with "Iraq" to start with. The tension here is if a Kurdish state is established, what will Turkey's government do with its Kurds who demand political realignment? There's also a NATO component. But those are solvable matters. Not simple, but solvable.

Sunnis and Shi'ites are not nearly as autonomous and not nearly as geographically distinct. And Iraq's geography favors one over the other by way of oil reserves. Biden's demand that an oil law be forged and implemented would have the preferable outcome of oil revenues for both factions. Whether diplomatic relations could be established between them easily is not in dispute -- they can't be easily achieved -- but they will have to share common roads, bridges, and other infrastrucure if either is to thrive economically. So the incentive would be addressed in Biden's plan and the law would insist on economic autonomy for both.

That leaves the long-term disposition of the United States and other coalition forces in the region and the stability that is absent now. Israel and Saudi Arabia are both key players here. And where Bush and Rice eschew talks with Iran and Syria, Biden's position insists that they too are key players and his circle is drawn far wider to include them.

I like Biden's proposal a lot and would like to see it implemented immediately if not sooner.

[IndianaGreen]

16. Forget a Kurdish state, it won't happen!

The Shia of Iraq have warned the Kurds of serious consequences if they declare independence. The Sunnis and the Turkmen don't want a Kurdish state in Iraq, and neither does Turkey, Syria, and Iran.

For all the bullshit talk one might hear, it is a historical fact that the United States has never wanted an independent Kurdish state in Iran, Iraq, or anywhere!

The CIA used the Kurds as a leverage to exact concessions from the Shah of Iran. The moment the Shah came back into the fold, the CIA dropped the Kurds.

The Kurds are lucky they haven't suffered the same fate as the Montagnards of Vietnam.

And for those of you still mesmerized by the poor victims that the Kurds like to portray themselves as, find out what the Kurds have done to Turkmen, Sunnis, and Shias living in among them in Northern Iraq. As we have seen in another part of the Middle East, the oppressed quickly become the oppressor.

[saltpoint]

18. I don't know, IG. I hear you on some of those points but I believe

the partition initiative is gaining steam and that we will indeed have a Kurdish state -- and we'll have it before we have the other partitioned entities.

The Kurds in Northern Iraq already have a separate diplomatic apparatus as if they were an independent nation.

I think this is going to happen. Just my take.

[IndianaGreen]

20. Biden, Tom Friedman, NY Times, they are all lying us. It is the OIL!

from the April 26, 2006 edition

Kurds quietly angle for independence

Oil revenue could give Iraq's Kurds greater economic distance from Baghdad, experts say.

By James Brandon | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor

The Kurdish Regional Government, which has run the Kurd's autonomous zone in northern Iraq since the early 1990s, recently has signed contracts with foreign oil companies to explore for new oil fields in Kurdish-ruled areas of Iraq. Experts say they hope the revenue generated from these deals could provide greater economic, and thus political, independence from Baghdad.

"The Kurds are offering attractive terms to companies that are willing to take a gamble on the legal situation," says Rafiq Latta, a Middle East editor of the Argus Oil and Gas report in London. "And some small oil companies are prepared to take the bait."

<snip>

But a recent move by influential cleric Moqtada al-Sadr indicates that Shiites are trying to counter Kurdish control of Kirkuk. The Washington Post reported Tuesday that "hundreds of Shiite Muslim militiamen have deployed in recent weeks" there. The newspaper said as many as 240 fighters loyal to Mr. Sadr have arrived to the city.

Almost as important to long-term Kurdish ambitions is Tal Afar, an Iraqi city that's ethnically Turkish but Shiite by religion. It lies between Mosul and the Kurdish enclave of Sinjar near the Syrian border.

"Tal Afar is the Kurds' access route to Sinjar, and through Sinjar they have access to Syrian Kurdistan," explains Joost Hiltermann, a Middle East analyst at the Brussels-based International Crisis Group. In other words, if the Kurds can also take and hold Tal Afar, then their dream of a greater Kurdistan remains alive.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0426/p07s02-woiq.html

[saltpoint]

24. No European I've talked to since before the first bomb fell on Baghdad

thought it was ever anything but about the oil.

To me, that's a given. We agree.

The Kurds are keenly interested in their own sovereignty. I think that's a given also.

And al Sadr is just as keenly interested in control himself.

That's why Joe Biden's intelligence and knowledge base would be infinitely valuable to the foreign policy of the next U.S. president. Bush's pals want the oil and see it as the only item on that horizon. Biden's plan is quite a bit more workable. The region is perilous, in large part because of Bush's oil grab. If Biden is not our nominee, I want him at the executive table assisting in a foreign policy in the Middle East.

[jillan]

22. The country is already dividing into sects.

It's happening anyway.



Have you read Biden's plan? If you did you would know that WE are not going to force THEM to do anything.
http://planforiraq.com/download

At the bottom of that link it explains what the plan is, and what it is not.

The first thing it says is
The Plan is not partition.

Second:
The Plan is not a foreign imposition.

It might be helpful to read it before you attack it.

[Major Hogwash]

13. Hmmm, what does Mitch McConnell think of Biden's plan?

Success has many fathers, while failure is an orphan.

Do you think Mitch will latch "onto" Biden's idea and try to re-label it as his own?

[saltpoint]

14. Possible. McConnell better latch onto something pretty quick here or

he's going to find his political future floating down the Ohio River.

The polls out of Kentucky these days suggest ol' Mitch better get those precinct captains hummin'.

Kentucky Democrats are resurgent and McConnell's blocking both Dem initiatives to end the war AND his constituents' wish that he represent their will on Iraq.

If he wants to keep his seat, he's going to have to fight for it.

[Like It Is]

23. See Biden this morning on the Today Show.

8am Eastern Time, 7am Central.

[Like It Is]

27. See Biden this morning on the Early Show.

And this evening on Hardball.

[TheDonkey]

28. Biden needs to kick his fundraising into gear

get serious about running for president! He could do a lot of damage to the rethugs he just cannot seem to breakthrough.

[Like It Is]

29. I don't think he's willing to sell out to the Corporations.

That is why the Unions should support him exclusively. He has always been a Union Supporter! I sent him several contributions, you can too.

[NCarolinawoman]

33. He's one of the few who never got rich while being in the Senate.

Others who have been in as long as he has, are usually millionaires by now. I really commend him for that.

[Like It Is]

37. It tells me that Joe is not on the take.

I'm a little more outspoken than you are. but we think alike.

[Like It Is]

30. Obama stuck his foot in his mouth trying to be Biden lite.

Barack is no foreign relations expert.

[murbley40]

31. Like it is:

:yourock:

[Like It Is]

32. Thanks, I just tell the truth and they can't handle it.

What have Hillary, Obama or Edwards accomplished in their illustrious careers? Hillary is just a Shill for Bill, making an end run around the 2 term rule. No one would know who Obama is if he didn't do a nice job of delivering a speech written by someone else at the 2004 Democratic Convention. Edwards is a lightweight former Senator who failed in 2004 twice and has nothing else to do so he's running again. Biden has established himself as the foremost Foreign Relations expert in the field. And that's where it's at folks. After 8 years of Bush, we desperately need the damage repaired.

[Egnever]

38. Cant handle what?

Biden is awesome I have suported him here since before it was acceptable here on DU. However deriding other candidates because you like yours better doesnt make you right nor does it make you apear to be a truth teller. It makes you sound pompous and arrogant and repulses people instead of attracting them.

When it comes to Iraq Joe has been right from the get go but Iraq is not everything. I hope he gains traction and gets in the first tier. However there is nothing wrong with Obama He may not have Bidens foreign policy experience but its clear if you listen to him that he sees the larger picture in these things. He was right on the Iraq thing before it started at a time when he didnt have near the ammount of information Biden did.

Go ahead and pat yourself on the back all you want but closing your eyes to other possibilities is foolish. Joe has a long road to make it to the top of the pack and a lot of baggage of his own to carry arround if he gets there.

I would love to see him as president. I think he would do an incredible job, but if he cant make it there and at the moment it doesnt look like he can, Obama is a decent alternative as far as I can see so far. I think if you look closer at obama you will find the two are very much alike.

[maximusveritas]

35. No one who supported the war in Iraq deserves the title of "expert"

They lost the right to that title for good.

[Egnever]

39. How did he stick his foot in his mouth?

He is right!

Biden agrees with him and said so while at the same time saying obama was somehow wrong for saying it while saying it himself. Its silly.

Maybe I should say Obama agrees with Biden on this issue either way they are in exactly the same place on this one as are many of the other candidates.

This is primary word games for the most part nothing really to see here.

Pakistan does need to step up more and take on AQ in those regions and if Obama saying it in a speech before he is the nominee somehow puts more pressure on them to do so, then what he has done is of benefit to us as a nation.

[ChiciB1]

34. If Biden Really Had A Chance At This... I Would Give Him A Lot Of

support. He has impressed me a lot lately and he seems to have it correct, BUT, oh well.

Kucinich impressed me a lot, but I'm losing some faith in him. Still he is a LIBERAL as I am.

[Jack Rabbit]

36. It may be a good idea, but . . .

. . . it's not our decision to make.