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Larisa Alexandrovna: An Open Letter: No more power to the Executive Ms. Pelosi. No More!

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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 01:41 AM
Original message
Larisa Alexandrovna: An Open Letter: No more power to the Executive Ms. Pelosi. No More!
An Open Letter: No more power to the Executive Ms. Pelosi. No More!
Larisa Alexandrovna
Posted August 1, 2007 | 11:21 PM (EST)

Dear Speaker Pelosi:

I cannot fathom why you would think it wise on any level to grant more power to those who have already so abused it, but since you are bent on enabling the imperial presidency, let me just remind you of something: There is nothing wrong with the FISA law that the impeachment of Dick Cheney cannot resolve. We, the public know this. More importantly, we the press know that giving the President more surveillance power is not only un-Constitutional, it is also a direct and full frontal assault on the press. Or did you actually think that Karl Rove and his new spy toy are going to go looking for Osama bin who?

I know you are eager to get to your month long, paid vacation - something our soldiers do not get and something the voting public does not get either. But if you are going to leave the country unsupervised while you are gone, the least you can do is not pass something as serious as an expansion of surveillance powers for the Decider as you head off to get your last tan of the summer.

Ms. Pelosi, you have said that you are working to reach an agreement with the White House sometime this week. Pray tell, what is it that you need to agree to that will justify anything this administration promises in exchange? You have already taken impeachment off the table, something you have no right or authority to do, as your oath of office should remind you on a daily basis. But you have unilaterally decided that no matter what the public wants, it is your opinion on this that is important, when in fact your opinion means nothing outside your duty.

Instead of going on a vacation, you should be babysitting Congressional chambers so that this duplicitous administration does not make any more recess appointments, such as, perhaps, a new Attorney General?

You should be on the House floor daily to make sure that a deranged mad-man you refuse to remove from office does not launch an illegal war against yet another country. You should be investigating if and why a Democratic governor, Don Siegelman, was really framed by the Rove machine - as many people believe - in order to make room for the White House sanctioned candidate in Alabama. You did read the letter of 44 former state attorneys generals demanding that Congress investigate why Siegelman was imprisoned?

Or were you otherwise busy drafting the more-power-to-the-decider law instead of sparing this man from having to endure one more day of false imprisonment? You should be working day and night to set right what is still wrong in New Orleans.

You should be demanding to know what happened to over $9 billion dollars of OUR money gone missing under this administration in Iraq, a sizable amount that no Executive Branch official can "recall" and something Congress appears to be barely interested in locating.

You should be doing something, anything but going on vacation. In short, you should be the leader that you were elected to be.

Instead, your last concern before you head off on a month long vacation is how to best compromise with this administration on something as sacrosanct as OUR rights and liberties. No. We have compromised enough and we go no further.

Who are we? Just in case you don't know:

-Every single person who emails me daily begging me for hope and faith - as though I could in any way provide something so important by myself.

-Every single person who begs me to take on their cause, like Don Siegelman's daughter, who is desperate for me to do what I have no power to do: set him free.

-Every single person like my cousin, who was picked up under Operation Return to Sender - Alberto Gonzales' idea of a political joke in addressing illegal immigration - in which hundreds upon hundreds of legal residents have been overcrowded prisons, people piled on top of people.

-Every single American who was denied their right to vote and continues to be the target of this administration because of the color of their skin.

-Every single person, including me, who cannot afford health insurance and has to suffer not only a serious disease but also the humiliation of having to explain to a stranger picking up the phone from corporate Pharma HQ why I deserve to live.

-Every single person who has watched Congress give itself a pay-hike while they have been stripped of their most basic rights.

-Every single person who cannot speak for themselves because they died at Ground Zero, either through the negligence of this administration before the attacks of September 11, 2001 or because of the criminal conduct by this administration and its cronies in declaring the air safe to breath when they knew it was poison.

-Every single American who knows the nation was lied into a war for profit and that American lives continue to be destroyed over a political decision you and yours will not make, although you were elected for this very reason.

-Every single person who has been terrorized by this administration and their color coded political dirty tricks for the last seven years
.
And...

-Every single person who does not want a corrupt, arrogant, and power hungry administration to tap our phones, cull our emails, and spy on us because they fear us more than they care about the terrorists they claim to be fighting.

Your compromise with the decider is far too much for this nation to have to tolerate. Allowing any such compromise to even to come to the floor for a vote indicates that you are still of the belief that the administration wants to work with Congress, when in fact, they have nothing but contempt for you. In my opinion, Ms. Pelosi, you giving the Decider even more power to abuse is tantamount to declaring war on the public and the press, something that is impossible to keep silent about.

In our brave new America, Ms. Pelosi, the "good American" is someone who asks no questions, supports the President and his war, and hates whomever the scapegoat is. Anyone not part of this definition is called a terrorist or a terrorist sympathizer. And members of Congress have run from such narrow definitions, passed laws because of such narrow definitions, and failed their country and their own conscience in order not to be called a name or made into a talking point. Weak on terror, does that sound familiar to you? How about by cutting off funding for the war, you are cutting off funding to the troops? Sound familiar yet? Are these the types of compromises we will continue to see because people have become so afraid of not being the "good American?"

By this definition, I am not and will never be a good American and that is something that I am very comfortable with, for the same reasons that I would be comfortable not being the good German during WWII or the good Italian during WWI. And I don't mind the name-calling at all. Why do you and your colleagues then care what labels are affixed to you when the moral argument is on your side of the isle?

No, I cannot hope to be anything before I first try for being a good human being and I cannot hope to be a good human being and continue to witness this massive failure of Congressional oversight as the rest of us - the majority of us - watch is horror our rights, liberties, money, and even loved ones are one by one stripped away from us.

I would not have been a good German under the Nazi regime, Ms Pelosi. My parents were not good Soviets under the Soviet regime and I am sure as hell not going to be the current version of a good American now. But if you were to ask about the definition of my Americanism, I would tell you to simply look at your own oath of office. There you will find my America.

Like you, I actually had to take an oath, but unlike you, my promise was given for the privilege of becoming a US citizen. Unlike most Americans, who never have to make that kind of pledge, I had to take an oath just to have the same rights that so many take for granted. Your oath was taken to uphold the same principles that I had to swear to uphold. Moreover, you took your oath as a public servant, while took mine as simply a citizen of this nation.

I took my oath seriously and because I have taken it so seriously, I cannot stand by and watch silently while you shred the Constitution for reasons that are unclear but are irrelevant in any case.

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."


I am honoring my oath of citizenship, Ms. Pelosi, are you honoring your oath of office?

You were not elected to expand the power of the Decider, and should you agree on a compromise to make legal that which you know is un-Constitutional, and thereby enable this administration to continue its abuses, you need not bother coming back after your vacation.

We don't need more enablers in an already compromised Congress. What we need are people who actually care, even if just a little bit, about the rest of US - the country and the Constitution.

So I ask you, please, do not grant more power to those who have already so abused the power that they have been granted.

Sincerely,
A US Citizen, a Jew, a woman, an Immigrant, and a journalist.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/larisa-alexandrovna/an-open-letter-no-more-p_b_58813.html



( ~~~ Note to mods: Letter posted in full w/permission from Larisa Alexandrovna ~~~ )

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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
1. Well said.
K&R
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 02:40 AM
Response to Original message
2. another kick & recommended. i heard pelosi had dinner with
the fuckhead--what the hell was that about?


From NBC's Mike Viqueira
A minor tidbit: It turns out that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and her husband Paul broke bread last night at the White House with President Bush and his wife, Laura.

The evening began with a one-on-one meeting between the president and the speaker, after which they were joined for dinner by their spouses, according to Pelosi. Pelosi tells us that it is important to have a "good rapport" with the president -- and in fact, she says, that is exactly what they have.

It was the first time that the two couples had gotten together, according to Pelosi.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/08/01/300823.aspx


nancy had such a great fucking time she decided to hand over the keys to the kingdom to bush.

or maybe her and hubby were drugged and photographs were taken.

i mean, really....what? did she ask him to fucking house sit the house of congress? do you ever ask a thief to watch your house?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Pyrzqxgl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
39. Talk about a Fox in the Hen House?
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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 02:44 AM
Response to Original message
3. K&R to the max! Eloquently, passionately, acurately said! nt
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 03:09 AM
Response to Original message
5. K&R n/t
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 04:06 AM
Response to Original message
6. Pretty much says it all. KR! n/t
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 04:10 AM
Response to Original message
7. K and R
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Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 04:40 AM
Response to Original message
8. k+r
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Pooka Fey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 04:52 AM
Response to Original message
9. Such a great essay! K&R
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 04:59 AM
Response to Original message
10. Larisa knocks it out of the park, and Pelosi should take note
because this essay really sums it up.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 05:09 AM
Response to Original message
11. Ms. Pelosi did manage to get the Jet she needed to go home without having to refuel
Nancy does seem to talk a lot without any actions to back it up...
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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 05:37 AM
Response to Original message
12. K & R. Great letter. nt.
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Syrinx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 05:57 AM
Response to Original message
13. k&r n/t
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 07:04 AM
Response to Original message
14. K & R!
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 07:12 AM
Response to Original message
15. Where was Larisa born?
Since she says she is an immigrant.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. From her blog, AT-LARGELY...
at-Largely
by Larisa Alexandrovna: For journalists and others who like examining the landscape of investigative reporting.

About Me

(snip)

Background:

I am a Jewish immigrant from the former Soviet Union, specifically from Odessa, Ukraine. I spent part of my childhood behind the iron curtain and later, moving around various European countries as a refugee with my parents. Part of these travels included Austria and Italy.


More @ http://www.atlargely.com/about_me.html




FYI, Larisa is DUer lala_rawraw (if you didn't know)

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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #19
50. Oh, I didn't know that. So, why didn't she post this here herself?
Is this sort of like when all those people post some opinion piece from DailyKos here at DU?
I mean, if she had your permission to post this here, why didn't she just do it herself?

I pretty much disagree with what she said in this piece because I don't think immigrants understand all the history behind the power struggles that are currently taking place in Washington, but it is an interesting op-ed nevertheless.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #50
55. I'm not sure what your point is.
Edited on Thu Aug-02-07 05:20 PM by Sapphire Blue
Larisa posted it on her Huffington Post blog. I read it there, did not see it posted here & asked her permission to post it here.

Your statement about immigrants seems to be somewhat judgmental & biased.

You have much to learn about Larisa Alexandrovna; she is quite knowledgeable regarding "all the history behind the power struggles that are currently taking place in Washington."

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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #50
61. Because she thought it would
get more political attention at HuffPo

saph asked if she could post here in full and i agreed:)
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motocicleta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #50
67. I believe you might want to explain that little more fully.
"...I don't think immigrants understand all the history behind the power struggles that are currently taking place in Washington..." That may be an interesting point, may not, but you haven't given us enough to work with yet, and it does not make intuitive sense to me.

Thanks
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PoconoPragmatist Donating Member (449 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #15
24. Soviet Union
She did say, in her note, that her parents were not good Soviets. So I'd assume she came here from the USSR.
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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
16. Fantastic - but will she read it?
And if she does, will she take heed?

K&R!!
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
17. I've been trying hard..
.... to find a way to believe that Ms. Pelosi was actually working for our interests, that maybe there was a long term strategy that was beyond my ken or something like that.

At this point, I realize that she is hopeless. In fact, I'm starting to wonder if the whole Dem party structure in Washington is hopeless.

They don't seem to be able to do anything but fuck up.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 07:37 AM
Response to Original message
18. Beautiful letter. I hope that this will touch our speakers heart
like it has touched mine.
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tnlefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
20. Larissa for Congress!!!
:thumbsup:
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Psyop Samurai Donating Member (873 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
21. Holy......
O8)

Bless you, Larisa.
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donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
22. It's one thing to fight all the injustice of this maladministration.
all the exhausting battles, from the war to elections and every political trench inbetween. It's another to find out that the party that claimed to be on your side is...

Your compromise with the decider is far too much for this nation to have to tolerate. Allowing any such compromise to even to come to the floor for a vote indicates that you are still of the belief that the administration wants to work with Congress, when in fact, they have nothing but contempt for you. In my opinion, Ms. Pelosi, you giving the Decider even more power to abuse is tantamount to declaring war on the public and the press, something that is impossible to keep silent about.




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Misskittycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
23. K & R. n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
25. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
26. Agreed.
Moderation and compromise are not virtues if you are trafficing with a thief.

I hope the Pelosi gets the message and stands up to this criminal administration.
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Harry Monroe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
27. BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AND BRAVO!!!!!! Ms. Alexandrovna said it all!!
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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
28. K&R!
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
29. BRAVA!

Wake Up America!:kick:

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
30. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
wjmj Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
31. Sweet Post. I, too, cannot fathom
how we, the supposed people opposed to Bushco on practically every imaginable level, can't see the dreadful truth right before our eyes...bleary eyes for the yearning and burning we've expended in hopes, hope, hope, hope, that someday, somehow, someway, this ruthless nightmare will be over. We the People don't get it. Go read "Mystery Poster" here http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/003805.php, the posts without a "Post By" name. Intense reading holding serous insight and familiarity with political reality. We the People apparently don't get it that the fix is in deep and long and continuous. Since Day One of the Democratic majority in the current congress there's been a'plenty of grounds to do something real and momentous then and there on their first day in so-called power about the indignities We the People suffer at the hands of corporatists, muck mongers and professional liars.

I'm an old man who grew up in the 60s, fought a war and lived to tell about it. It feels good to have a new breed of those who've lived to tell about it. The good part of the feeling is they have an articulate voice brimming with what the rest of their generation needs, guts. It would feel even better if the streets were filled with the same fervor my generation exerted on the coporatists, muck mongers and professional liars who, holy be hell, still exists in an even deadlier form than in my day.

Go on, We the People, keep listening to those half-truths in you conscience, those little eddies of doubt and concern for your immediate well-being that dis-enable your spirit to rise above the darkness shading your fear of acting like a true, red-blooded American. I made a mistake believing in my country in 1967, joining the Marine Corps to go kill commies who I was told threatened my existence. It's been everyday since I came home alive that my country's existence has been threatened, and it's been threatened by those corporatists, muck mongers and professional liars who caused me to believe I was doing the patriotic thing to go kill a commie for mommie.

Dear God in Heaven, Larissa, I hope someone listens to you.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. gonna check out the link
I've noticed a pattern in this.

It seems that only the people who have been burned by the system, and I mean REALLY burned stand firm about sweeping change. Everyone else thinks the system can be patched or even that it IS working, just not quickly.

I've been touched by the muck that's oozing out more everyday, and perhaps my knowledge that there is far more beneath the cracks allows me to see that it's more than a few bad apples poisoning the system- the system itself poisoning us.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #31
52. You said it!
We the People apparently don't get it that the fix is in deep and long and continuous.

Oh, I get it...FINALLY! As painful as it is to realize, what other conclusion is even possible at this point?
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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #31
58. Welcome! And, let me say...
... that *every* American has made a mistake in believing in the pablum we were feed since we first drew breath about the history of our country.

I had to achieve my 50th year before I read "American Holocaust" and understood the real history of how the country was founded. I slept through the war you fought in because I had concerns like raising a daughter on my own, making a living... and, being the daughter of a WWII Vet, I was caught up in the heroism of American back then, and was too unschooled to understand what was happening in the '60s.

It is painful to grow older and, getting beyond some of the stresses of "making it" in America, to begin to understand that America never *was* what we were introctrinated to believe when we were children. Your failure, if it was one, was youthful enthusiasm for a stirring cause which you lacked the tools -- maybe the curiosity -- to properly assess.

My failure was retreating to a private space which did not allow intrusion from a distasteful outer reality. So I unwittingly helped to enable the scenario we are struggling with now by not being engaged as a citizen in the affairs of my country.

Our collective guilt as a people for not seeing what was right before us should not act as an anchor to keep us from demanding action from our Dem leaders. We've been lied to, often and egregiously, and we have to stop supporting those who do not support us.

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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
32. Anyone have quote from Pelosi indicating that she intends to grant Bush more power?
Edited on Thu Aug-02-07 12:54 PM by mzmolly
If that's the case, I agree with the content of the letter, but all I've seen thus far is a salacious (or "suspect") - headline that many of us "bit" on?

:shrug:

Off to check GD, perhaps I've overlooked something...
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wjmj Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Salacious??
Which part of the letter's headline is ludicrous, characterized by lust? http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=salacious

Even my 5th Ed. American Heritage Doorstop doesn't support your use of this word. Perhaps there's meat for your word in the letter's content, or did you mean sensational?
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. From Webster:
Edited on Thu Aug-02-07 12:49 PM by mzmolly
Etymology: Latin salac-, salax, from salire to move spasmodically, leap --

Thesaurus.com http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/salacious

One of 21 entries:

Main Entry: wrong
Part of Speech: adjective 2
Definition: immoral
Synonyms: amoral, bad, base, blamable,blameworthy, blasphemous, censurable, corrupt, criminal, crooked, debauched, depraved, dishonest, dishonorable, dissipated, dissolute, evil, felonious, illegal, illicit, indecent, iniquitous, low-down, naughty, profane, profligate, reprehensible, reprobate, risqué, sacrilegious, salacious, shady, sinful, smutty, unethical, unfair, ungodly, unholy, unjust, unlawful, unrighteous, vicious, wanton, wicked, wrongful
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. here, I was looking for backup on this
Edited on Thu Aug-02-07 12:37 PM by Hydra
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Bush_pressing_Democrats_for_expanded_eavesdropping_0801.html

I think I need a bath after reading that. The WH wants Gonzo to have sole authority of the audit of the wiretapping(the part where we are assured that they aren't tapping random political and social targets for the WH). I saw somewhere that the compromise proposed by the WH is that it would also be overseen by another probable * crony.

I agree with Larissa. FISA was put in place for EXACTLY this reason, so why is congress looking to "compromise" by giving away more power to an out of control WH? Tell * to go to hell!

(edited for clarity regarding the proposed compromise)
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Democrats have expressed the same concerns.
So I am hopeful.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. As am I
But I'm also withholding judgment until we see the damage.

The problem I have is that the Congressional Dems have made noises that they are willing to bend on this issue, when instead they should be taking * to task for violating FISA repeatedly, especially after various judges have ruled that he doesn't have the right to do so.

It's complete insanity to me that he is caught breaking the law, He calls the people that blew the whistle on him traitors, then demands that congress alter the laws to make what he wants to do legal...and he is still considered someone we need to "compromise" with.

This also leads to a scarier question: How many illegal programs has he authorized that we don't know about, considering the audacity of the programs that have been openly announced or leaked to us?
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. They've made noises that Bush needs to bend. And they've claimed "but we're willing to work with
him if...." Indeed the illegal programs are the most frightening.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. I read that too, about how AG is totally unacceptable as an auditor
But I'm taking the historical POV on this. The Dems tell * to back down, he refuses, which leads to him either not getting what he wants(but doing it in secret anyway- see Gitmo and this program regarding that), or the dems back down when a flag is waved and 9/11 and "Al-Qaeda" get airtime.

Rove's strategy may seem flawless, but each time the Dems smack *'s programs down, more people get behind them. The dems have the opportunity to "contain" the WH and the rest of the Leviathan, just as * purports to do with 'Qaeda, by debunking *'s propaganda points, pointing out his non-support of the troops(walter-reid anyone?), tearing him apart on his economic policies and shedding light on all the abuses of this power he's claimed.

The dems seem to be trying to take the moral high ground by attempting to forge a consensus and trying to be bi-partisan, afraid to be viewed as "going it alone." That's fine in theory, but it's not working. The question then becomes is their job to keep the new status quo, or to correct the damage of the past 6 years?

The answer will determine whether our system is salvageable, or whether we will always come back to this point.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Nothing the Dems do will be good enough for anyone.
That's the way it appears to be. I've got my mind on "local" issues now, but I want to welcome you and say thanks for the discussion.
:hi:
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. Thank you
But I don't think the Dems "can't do enough." That's surprisingly a "centerist" dem talking point, that us "Far right anti-war loonies" won't be satisfied no matter what they do. I can tell you when the tide turned on this- the extra money for * with no restrictions.

We aren't setting a high bar here- just get in *'s way and get him out of Iraq before the hydrocarbon law is signed, and get rid of those permanent bases.

Many people will scream at me about this, but remember the support Harry R. got for disrupting the partisan congress to draw attention to the lies leading to the Iraq war.

Good luck on local issues- hopefully you won't end up on the "list" because of them.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. I'm in the Twin Cities area and am distracted currently.
But I do look forward to future discussion with you. And I stand by my point about Democrats not ever being "good enough" for some.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1492857

Peace
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Phredicles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
37. I'm about ready to dub "our" speaker LieberNancy Peloserman.
Another walking clusterfuck in an age already crawling with them.
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amb123 Donating Member (764 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
42. This letter is an act of true patriotism.
K & R
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
47. Wow -- great letter!
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KaryninMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
48. Excellent letter LaLa. Beautiful.
Thank you for speaking for all of us.
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #48
63. thanks K...
i thought we were going to a spa? what happened with that?
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
49. time to play hardball with the bastards
no mercy
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
51. Excellent letter by Larisa Alexandrovna
Thanks for the thread Sapphire Blue.:thumbsup:
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
53. K & R - bookmarking to print out later.
Pelosi AND my Congress critter need a hard copy of this one!
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
54. 8/2. The clock is ticking. Where the bill stands right now: "Pick your poison". (TPM
I'm no fancy Philadelphia lawyer, but it sounds like the bill has plenty of ambiguities and loopholes large enough for Bush to drive a whole battalion of trucks through. Dems can shelve and hold it hostage for more scrutiny and fixing until it is more legally unsnarled, or they can hand Bush his shoddy temporary bill before recess-- the way he wants it.

Doesn't sound like they may have time to do both.


TPM (LA Times and WAPO)...


Dems Grapple with FISA
(...)

And here's the Dem proposal, as described by The Washington Post this morning:

Congressional Democrats outlined a temporary plan yesterday that would expand the government's authority to conduct electronic surveillance of overseas communications in search of terrorists.

(see link)

This would seem to lower the bar in terms of the evidence needed to initiate surveillance. The FISA court has a probable cause standard to initiate surveillance of a member of Al Qaeda or some affiliated group. Apparently the Democrats' plan would initially lower that bar -- allowing the targeting of "suspects" -- but then require probable cause once the number of wiretaps became "significant," whatever that means.

Hopefully clarity will enter into whatever ultimate compromise bill emerges. Negotiators are racing to finish and vote on a proposal before the congressional August recess begins Monday. Unless the bill defines critical terms like "significant" and specifies what standard the government will have to meet to begin surveillance on a given target, the compromise will either snarl in congress, depriving the NSA of a tool it says it urgently needs, or protections on Americans' civil liberties will erode even further. Pick your poison.



http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/003840.php
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slutticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
56. *Standing Ovation*
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #56
64. lmao...
you made my coffee come out of my nose:) thank you!
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slutticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-03-07 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #64
73. You are most welcome
:)

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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
57. Working with the Bush administration should be conditioned
on Bush's ordering his aides and employees to testify fully before congressional investigations. A terrible precedent is being set here which would viscerate our Constitutional form of government. Bush's excessive evocation of the executive privilege must be stopped.

How would Republicans feel if Democrats evoked this privilege to the extent that Bush has? They would be horrified and incensed, mores so than we are.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
59. Whoop !!! - There It Is !!! - K & R !!!
By this definition, I am not and will never be a good American and that is something that I am very comfortable with, for the same reasons that I would be comfortable not being the good German during WWII or the good Italian during WWI. And I don't mind the name-calling at all. Why do you and your colleagues then care what labels are affixed to you when the moral argument is on your side of the isle?

No, I cannot hope to be anything before I first try for being a good human being and I cannot hope to be a good human being and continue to witness this massive failure of Congressional oversight as the rest of us - the majority of us - watch is horror our rights, liberties, money, and even loved ones are one by one stripped away from us.

I would not have been a good German under the Nazi regime, Ms Pelosi. My parents were not good Soviets under the Soviet regime and I am sure as hell not going to be the current version of a good American now. But if you were to ask about the definition of my Americanism, I would tell you to simply look at your own oath of office. There you will find my America.

Like you, I actually had to take an oath, but unlike you, my promise was given for the privilege of becoming a US citizen. Unlike most Americans, who never have to make that kind of pledge, I had to take an oath just to have the same rights that so many take for granted. Your oath was taken to uphold the same principles that I had to swear to uphold. Moreover, you took your oath as a public servant, while took mine as simply a citizen of this nation.

I took my oath seriously and because I have taken it so seriously, I cannot stand by and watch silently while you shred the Constitution for reasons that are unclear but are irrelevant in any case.


"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."



I am honoring my oath of citizenship, Ms. Pelosi, are you honoring your oath of office?


Psst... Nancy... You are totally blowing it.

:wtf:

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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
60. Alexandrovna gets it way wrong
right from the start. Russ Feingold says some of the FISA changes are OK. Its been OK to eavesdrop on calls between parties who are out of the country. The glitch is that some of those calls are routed through the US. All that is being asked for with this one specific request is a technical fix.

I don't believe Nancy Pelosi is going to let Gonzales decide cases that judges should decide. Has anybody heard anything different?

Alexandrovna doesn't get all that. She's just exploded into a wild rant. I don't trust Bush with eavesdropping ability but I don't see what Nancy Pelosi did that can be called "a full frontal assault on the press."

The ranter raises a lot of fuss about members of Congress going on vacation. That doesn't mean they are all going to the beach. Most of them go home and work their districts when Congress isn't in session. If they get any vacation time, I don't see that as terrible. They work very long hours and everybody needs a vacation now and then. If the members of Congress stay in Washington until every complaint is dealt with then they'd never get a minute off, ever.

Nancy Pelosi hasn't shredded the constitution. George Bush has. This Alexandrovna woman is hysterical.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-03-07 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #60
71. To the contrary, Feingold ISN"T giving it a pass. He hints he might filibuster it, n/t
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
62. thanks guys... now
get your pens out and write, write, write... we have one more day
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Oldenuff Donating Member (442 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
65. Outstanding!!

Are you listening Ms. Pelosi?

Or are you too busy looking for an excuse for not fulfilling your obligation as a defender of the Constitution?I do hope that the voters in California remember what you haven't done next election.

Sorry to have had to say it,but it's true.I'm embarrased for America.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
68. Ahh, Lala...
If I was much younger and a hell of a lot less cynical...;-)

You never fail to impress.
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Torn_Scorned_Ignored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-03-07 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
69. The Constitution is Clear
US Constitution Amendment 4

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
http://www.findlaw.com/casecode/constitution/
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-03-07 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
70. Feingold: Fools Rush In (To Amend FISA) (TPM). Russ might filibuster.
Edited on Fri Aug-03-07 01:48 AM by chill_wind
if they can't clean up the rush-rush version so far, which is going in bad directions.


Talking to Roll Call today:

(...)
Saying Congressional Democrats and Republicans were moving “awfully quickly” on a White House proposal to make it easier to eavesdrop on suspected overseas terrorists, Feingold said he is in “no hurry” to leave town for the August recess.

“I don’t feel the need to get out of here. I would much rather stay here than have us make a terrible mistake,” said Feingold, who has made a name for himself as a champion on civil liberties in the Senate. “This is not the kind of thing that should be done on the fly, and I am prepared to stay here as long as it takes to fix it. Or, if they need force this through, I’m not going to make it easy, if they don’t make it better.

(more)

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/003849.php

I love this man.
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MsMagnificent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-03-07 03:03 AM
Response to Original message
72. Too late to recommend
But I can still :kick: for what it's worth!

I said it before & I'll say it again -- N. Pelosi has to go.
She's had her chance, and she's done worse than nothing... she's gone to the Dark Side, as far as I'm concerned. For one, letting such a "lovely man" :puke: retain the ability to arbitrarily and preemptively declare war instead of Congress!
Unbelievable!

Do the People have any say in who the Speaker is? How do we get a new one in there?

You know, for a feminist, concerning both of the top political women in the country -- well, they just break my heart.
Never in a million years would I have thought I wouldn't be behind either!
Never.

What an upside-down state of affairs we're in.


Just an offside: Wow, there's sure a lot of deleted posts on this page!
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-03-07 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
74. afternoon kick
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-03-07 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
75. Kick.
Already recommended.

TC
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