This is not elective surgery

[Tab]

What I've been hearing lately is that we're not pursuing impeachment because "everything would grind to a halt". It would shut Congress down, particularly if we're doing both the VP and the President. We have more important things to do, like "education funding" or whatever. Yes, education funding is important, but there's something more important at stake here.

Impeachment is the tool of last resort to set the government right when it goes astray. If we say it's not worth the effort, then what's to stop the next Bush, Cheney, or Rove from doing this again?

Cheney served in the White House before this, and the lesson he took from that was that secrecy and power was paramount, and so, in his mind, he was determined to "do it right" this time. If we DON'T impeach, what message are we sending? We're saying that there's no consequences. We'll be lucky if we make it to a new election and a new President. If the Republicans get a foothold again, what will stop them? Subpoenas? Hah! Contempt of Congress? Hah! Impeachment? Hah!

Just like a cancer, this needs to be excised and it needs to be excised now. Yes, it's inconvenient, but in the face of cancer, we need to take time out of our day to deal with it, and so Congress needs to take time out of its day to excise this malignant growth. Yes, things will be put on hold. Yes, it will be messy. Yes, it will be disruptive. But it's NECESSARY for the OVERALL HEALTH of our nation. These other subjects, if we have to wait until next year to deal with them, so be it. We'll be a healthier country and more able to handle those issues expediently. But if we DON'T, this infection will fester, and grow, and will get uglier. Having done nothing to stop it, we guarantee the next time we have to deal with it, it will be much more unmanageable.

Unlike Clinton, this is a VALID use of impeachment. Even Nixon pales by comparison. And if we don't submit to surgery, we let our country die.

I'm willing to put up with what is necessary to undergo treatment. Why our Congress is not just astounds me. I pray they have a secret agenda for a greater goal, but I'm increasingly concerned that is not the case. Please allow us to protect our country. Is that too much to ask?

- Tab

[rufus dog]

1. well said and recommended. n/t

[rufus dog]

2. actually I do have more to say

Look at what has happened in the past week. AG basically won't answer questions and give the U.S. the middle finger. Rove won't testify, another middle finger, Rummy and team use the mafia defense tactic of I know nothing, another middle finger, Bush goes on TV and within a minute and a half bashes the dems regarding the bridge collapse, another middle finger, finally Rummy basically tells Mary Tillman to fuck off, you have no proof!

How much shit are people willing to take. Things will get worse my ass, things continue to get worse and the majority continue to take it! It is time to stand up and knock the shit out of these people, NOW!

[rudy23]

3. There's a fallacy of False Cause at work in the Dems' reasoning

They think the people disapproved of the Clinton impeachment because the people hate impeachment proceedings.

--not because they thought the Clinton impeachment was bogus. That's not giving the people the credit that they can see the difference between that and this, where several high crimes that threaten the foundation of Constitutional government have been commited, and blantantly. The frustrating thing is, this never seems to be considered when the Dems talk about their fear of impeachment. The American people can see the difference between apples and oranges. But the CD Dems just see this one monster called "Impeachment".

They think the people are as afraid of confrontation as they are. Maybe they're projecting, I don't know.

They think the American voter is turned off by partisanship, rather than impotence. The Repubs have that backwards, and that's why they succeed in being the dominant party with only 30% support from the country.


They're being reactionary yet again--they're letting the threat of political spin dictate their actions--as if the spin isn't going to come from all directions on all fronts anyway.

[Phredicles]

7. Exactly so - thank you.

[Summer93]

4. Kick and Recommend

As a country we are currently accepting lying, cheating and stealing from our "elected" leaders. If we the people do not impeach these people for breaking their oath of office, for lying to Congress, for lying to the people of the country then WE are accepting all of this wrong doing.

I believe that impeachment, due to the investigations involved, will be good for our country as it will reveal that the lawbreakers are in charge. They want to continue to break the law, to be above the law.

They are setting a precedent for future generations, for future governments.

Do we need to ask when will breaking the law be acceptable for all people?
We won't need to have any jails. We won't need to have any lawyers. Just a free for all.

[Usrename]

5. Impeach now!

:kick:

[rosesaylavee]

6. Impeach. Now.

Impeachment is the only way out of this mess. They will fuss about Iraq from now until the election. We won't get out of there in any substantial way unless we impeach these criminals.

And I am done hoping Pelosi will see the light. She needs to be removed if she doesn't have the stomach for the job.

[checks-n-balances]

8. "Undergoing treatment" is the best metaphor I've heard yet

Even though it's not entirely original ("There's a cancer on the Presidency...")...

Can you IMAGINE a very busy person (who is responsible for a large number of people) receiving a diagnosis of cancer, who has all the legal rights and possibilities for a cure, saying, "No, I'd better not because there just isn't enough time for that along with all the other things I've got to do. I've been planning for those things all of my career and we just can't get sidetracked. Some people have even advised me that maybe if I channel all my energies in a positive direction and try to do a lot of good things, it probably won't spread and maybe it will even go away. That's actually happened to other people before. Maybe it isn't cancer and even if it is, I'll just take some aspirin for it. I wouldn't want my insurance to be cancelled because I might need it later. Besides, I've got vacation plans for the next few weeks. And even if it is Cancer, it's too terrible a disease to ruin my life by spending my time fighting it. It's not worth fighting." (I'm sure I've missed a couple of excuses that have been used, but I can't go on any longer because it sounds absolutely ridiculous!)

We would say that such a person is in DEEP DENIAL and is acting in highly IRRESPONSIBLE ways.

Anyway, this is definitely one of the best threads I've seen on the subject and thanks for writing it!

[Senator]

9. Impeachment is Panacea

It could happen at any time. Impeachment is ripe and could even fall of its own weight.

And along with it comes the prospect of troops home for Xmas, a closed and empty Gitmo compound, a re-engagement of our former allies in fighting terrorism, a new confidence in our election results, a reason for hope in the face of both fiscal and natural catastrophes, and a generational advantage for the Democrats as the party of principled, reality-based, actions and results.

None of which we can reasonably expect from "politics as usual."

Only Impeachment ... is that real panacea.

It IS our positive agenda.

It is our ONLY moral, patriotic option.

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