Hero Worshipping Obama

[illinoisprogressive]

ug. 2, 2007 - Those who fall in with the Barack Obama campaign tend to fall hard for the man himself, and none more than Jonathan Scott Gration. A recently retired Air Force major general who voted for George W. Bush in 2000, Gration accompanied Obama on a 15-day tour of Africa last August and was, he says, simply bowled over. When the two traveled to Kenya, the homeland of Obama’s father, the U.S. presidential candidate directly confronted President Mwai Kibaki over corruption. "It was an incredible thing to watch," Gration later blogged on BarackObama.com. After the two of them went to Robben Island, the South African prison where Nelson Mandela was incarcerated for almost three decades. Gration had something of an epiphany. "To see how Mandela saved his country by bridging racial, ethnic and in some cases cultural diversity, and turn a page from a turbulent time—I think that’s sort of what the senator’s doing," Gration told NEWSWEEK in an interview this week. "He’s using his experience to turn a page for America, not only to bring the country together, but to give us a different image externally."
Not surprisingly, the Obama campaign has begun sending Gration out on the stump—he did a 13-town tour of Iowa in July—in an effort to improve the inexperienced senator’s image on national security. Gration also contributed ideas to Obama’s much noted speech on counterterrorism Wednesday, when the candidate generated headlines by suggesting that, as president, he might invade the tribal parts of Pakistan. "The United States has to be willing to pursue these terrorists to where they’re planning their logistics operations," says Gration, who adds he’s "really disappointed with the spin mongers" who focused only on Obama’s aggressive language about Pakistan. "This speech has been a long time coming. It’s not a response to Hillary Clinton or anybody else." Bill Burton, Obama’s press secretary, says Gration supplies extra "credibility" for a candidate who has never served in the military. "He has an ability to educate voters about what kind of commander in chief Obama will be, in a way few can."

Indeed, Gration’s résumé is bristling with real-world military experience that earned him seven rows of ribbons during a 32-year Air Force career. As a fighter pilot, he flew 274 missions over Iraq during and after the first Persian Gulf War, occasionally encountering Iraqi ground fire, and he commanded a task force during Operation Iraqi Freedom. Gration was also in command of the unit at Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia that lost 18 of the 19 U.S. personnel killed in a terrorist explosion in 1996. And he happened to be at the Pentagon when the plane hit on 9/11. "I’m not a good guy to have around, I guess," he jokes.
CONTINUED

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20096479/site/newsweek/

[maximusveritas]

1. I don't like the title

It doesn't fit the article at all. Gration is a hero in his own right and I don't see any evidence of him worshipping Obama. He just supports and advises him.

[babylonsister]

2. I still haven't decided, but what a great experience. I think if we all were

able to spend some quality time with any/all of the Dem candidates, we'd have different impressions than we currently do.

[Ethelk2044]

3. I read about General Gration supporting him earlier.

I like his resume.

[sandnsea]

4. On nuclear deterrence

"Our nuclear forces are not a deterrent as powerful as they once were, and yet those nuclear weapons and fissile material provide a threat. If, in my view, they’re not doing a deterrence mission and they pose a threat if terrorists get ahold of them, we ought to be pulling back the number of ICBMs," he says. "When you have 15,000 to 16,000 weapons floating around, I think you can reduce that number significantly. And make sure nobody else feels a requirement to get new nukes. I believe if you could get rid of all the nuclear weapons this would be a wonderful world."

It would be incredible to have a new nuclear policy. I think this is right on target. We'll see what Obama does, but it wouldn't bother me one bit to have nukes off the table unless we're attacked first.

[LWolf]

5. To be honest,

I don't think this article is complimentary. I make no pretense about my opinion of Obama. I flat out don't like him, and every time I hear him it gets worse. Still, I understand that some people do, and that his supporters want to present him in a positive light.

I'm being open with you here, and not trying to make any campaign points for anyone. I'm not a fan of Obama's biggest competitor, either, lol.

I've noticed that "Those who fall in with the Barack Obama campaign tend to fall hard for the man himself." He is undoubtedly charismatic. That's part of what I don't trust. My very first impression of him, at the '04 convention, was guarded. He obviously spoke well, and was well-received, but the audience seemed a little TOO fervent. I did pay attention to him after that, and noticed a pattern of hero worship which left me distinctly uneasy. I wanted the substance underneath the charisma.

So I paid attention, and found that, yes, he is handsome, charming, charismatic, and an eloquent speaker. I wasn't happy with the substance underneath all of that, though. He is missing something I'm looking for. I don't agree with his ideas too much of the time, and lately every time he makes some campaign talking point I am appalled. I understand that many have a different perspective than I do, and I respect that. I can't say I'm not disappointed, because Obama is not pointing a direction I want to go, but I respect the right of each citizen to make their own choice, and it's not unusual for the majority to rule over me. I'm used to it.

I guess, now that Obama has offered his plans for the Middle East, we're going to hear quite a bit about military objectives. It doesn't surprise me that a career military man would support a candidate who proposes military solutions. What person who didn't support military solutions would make a career in the military?

Still, there are some of us who think that the U.S. should never use the military except as a last resort to defend an actual attack on U.S. soil. Some of us think that there is no such thing as a military solution to any conflict, and that the only valid purpose of the military is to defend from direct attacks. A career military man gushing over Obama isn't going to inspire me or fill me with confidence.

I'm so incredibly discouraged. I told you I was being open. I'm not trying to start a fight about Obama here. Can you please, please, tell me something that I can actually like about Obama's political platform? Not propaganda. Not well-scripted speeches that can be spun in a variety of directions. Something concrete and real that he will do, and has a record working for, that will make me feel the slightest bit hopeful? If you can do that, I won't vote for him. I won't stop being outraged over the nuclear power on the table, the teacher merit pay support, the military solutions, the support for private health insurance companies. It won't win me, but it may make me more likely to view Obama supporters less as enemies and more as allies.

[sandnsea]

6. I think it's impossible

I don't think one can convince an avowed pacifist to change their values. You don't share Democratic Party values. It's not a big deal. You have the misfortune of being born into capitalism instead of socialism. Maybe you should consider Sweden or some place that shares your values.

[LWolf]

9. It's true that I'm not going to change my values.

This is, however, also my country, and I'm not going to just pick up and leave home. It's as much my home as any other citizen. My America is supposed to be inclusive, not exclusive.

Do you mean that active use of the military for non-defensive purposes is part of Democratic Party Values?

[sandnsea]

12. Not what I meant

This is also the only life you get, as far as I know. You have a right to live it happily and if choosing a different country will give that to you, then I think anybody should consider it.

I'm not aware the Democratic Party is supporting using the military for non-defensive purposes.

[LWolf]

14. Thank you for that clarification.

That positive comment, in itself, is helpful.

[Egnever]

8. Appreciate the attempt at honesty

but if as you say in your closing words the best trying to point out things to like about obama will do is make you look at people who support him not as enemies...well to brutally honest why bother? You have clearly made your mind up
already and nothing anyone says here will get anything more from you than less loathing... woopdy doo loath away.

[LWolf]

10. Why bother?

Don't, if your only goal is to chalk up my vote for your side. Do, if you see any value in making potential allies in the bigger picture.

Don't, though, project loathing on to me. I don't loathe you, or Obama, or anyone else, for that matter.

[Egnever]

21. More honesty ?

I am not exactly sure what you are looking for here.

You have a sig line in a post above that exclaims you will sit out if 4 or 5 different candidates are given the nod. Clearly you are not interested in being an ally in anything. You seem to want to coerce people into seeing things your way under the threat of if they don't you will take your ball and go home. Thats fine and I respect your right to stand on principal however the idea that somehow anyone should waste time trying to convince you of anything when there are plenty of others out there that are still open to the idea of getting a dem in office even if its one they don't agree with or worry will not be much better than what we have now strikes me as being incredibly narcissistic.

You want to call obama supporters enemies first then expect them to cater to you. Well maybe there are some out there that will do so.

Me? Well if the dog bites me first then wants to lick me later I tend to avoid the dog.

[LWolf]

22. I can tell that you are unable to understand

what I've communicated. I accept that. If I thought further energy on my part to explain in a way that you could comprehend would help, I'd gladly do that. I don't think, though, that you really want to "get" what I am saying. I'm ok with that, too. I does make any further conversation between the two of us irrelevant, and a waste of time.

[Ethelk2044]

15. Obama does not do well scripted Speeches. He life's work has

been about the middle class and helping people. That is enough for me. I want someone who cares not not someone who wants the corporations to get richer. I am sick of NAFTA and H1B visas. Hillary has announced she wants to increase them. Hell isn't it enough corporations are outsourcing jobs overseas. What happens when your son or daughter graduates and needs to find a job. They put 4 years in college only to find out it is even harder to find a job. Some students have resulted to going overseas for jobs. I want someone who will look out for us. If jobs are lost what are they going to do about the city. Look at Michigan. New Orleans (even before Katrina).

[LWolf]

24. I, too, am sick of NAFTA.

I am sick of NCLB, I am sick of my health insurance company, which costs me, between premiums and copays, as much as my personal food budget for the year, and that doesn't count what my employer pays them. I am sick of overseas military action taking the funds that could address our domestic crises.

I am sick of so many things.

I don't find anything about labor, or NAFTA, under "issues" at Obama's website. What, exactly, is his position on NAFTA?

[rinsd]

7. Yet another surrogate to prop up Obama's weak image on foreign policy

So far he has had to stand on the shoulders of Lee Hamilton and Richard Clarke.

Maybe he can reach out to Colin Powell again.

[Ethelk2044]

11. Then that makes Hillary's Foreign Policy Weak. Obama actually

has more experience than Her.



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20010704/site/newsweek/
Both Clinton and Obama have called on foreign-policy heavyweights to educate them on the issues and help shape their approach to world affairs. But neither candidate would bring much in the way of hands-on foreign-policy experience to the Oval Office. Their efforts to promote their credentials can seem strained. Clinton's aides point to her extensive travel to more than 80 countries as First Lady and her 1995 speech at a U.N. conference on women in Beijing. "She helped represent the United States abroad throughout the '90s," says Howard Wolfson, Clinton's communications director. "Obviously, that's an important qualification. She went to China and gave a very famous and important address when she declared that human rights are women's rights and women's rights are human rights. That electrified the world." But these sanitized, ceremonial trips abroad are hardly preparation for the middle-of-the-night call from the Situation Room. After all, Laura Bush has also traveled extensively as First Lady, taking in 68 countries either with her husband or on her own. No one is saying she has the experience to be commander in chief.

[rinsd]

16. Yeah Obama lived overseas when he was 10 that makes him more experienced.

:rofl:

From the same article

"That may be well phrased. But in reality, Obama lived overseas—in Indonesia—for just four years as a kid. And voters may not warm to a candidate whose judgments are shaped by overseas relatives. (In combating Clinton's criticisms, Obama has an unlikely ally in Bill Clinton. Obama aides unearthed comments from Bill's first campaign, in which he eloquently deflected the same kinds of charges of inexperience she's now leveling at Obama.)"

Shit he has to rely on the Big Dog to bail his ass out. LOL.

"There is little in the résumés of either Clinton or Obama that will help them negotiate their way through the vast and complex array of foreign-policy challenges the next president will face—in Iraq and beyond. Over the coming months, we may get to hear from them in detail on these points. Yet so far, the bickering over experience reveals more about the character of the campaigns than the qualifications of the candidates."

And here is the author scolding both campaigns...something for everyone

[Ethelk2044]

17. No But this Does.

Senate Committees in the 110th Congress:
- Committee on Foreign Relations

- Subcommittee on African Affairs

- Subcommittee on International Economic Policy

- Subcommittee on Asians and Pacific Affairs

- Committee on Veterans' Affairs

- Committee on Healthy, Education, Labor & Pensions

- Committee on Homeland Security & Governmental Affairs

Practical, Progressive Thinking on the Issues: In 2002, Barack Obama publicly opposed the Iraq War, and continues to call for withdrawal of US troops from Iraq. He urges universal health care, and if elected president, promises implementation by the end of his first term.
Barack Obama's voting record and stances as US Senator and Illinois State Senator reflect a "practical, common sense progressive" thinker who emphasizes increased support for teachers, college affordability, and restoration of meaningful federal support of veterans. Obama opposes privatization of Social Security.

Prior Experience: Barack Obama served 7 years as an Illinois State Senator, resigning to assume US Senate responsibilities. He also worked as a community organizer and a civil rights attorney. The Senator is a Senior Lecturer in Constitutional Law at University of Chicago Law School.
After law school, he aggressively organized one of the largest voter registration drives in Chicago history to help Bill Clinton's 1992 election.

On December 22, 2006, President Bush signed into law Senator Obama's “Democratic Republic of the Congo Relief, Security, and Democracy Promotion Act

http://usforeignpolicy.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm...

http://usforeignpolicy.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm... /

http://usforeignpolicy.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm...

[rinsd]

19. After law school, Hillary worked with Dem legal counsel during Watergate

She has 6 1/2 half years on the Senate

Senate Armed Services Committee

Subcommittees:

* Airland
* Emerging Threats and Capabilities
* Readiness and Management Support

For more committee information, visit website

Senate Committee on Environment & Public Works

Subcommittees:

* Subcommittee on Superfund and Environmental Health (Chair)
* Subcommittee Clean Air and Nuclear Safety
* Subcommittee on Transportation and Infrastructure

Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor & Pensions

Subcommittees:

* Children and Families
* Employment & Workplace Safety

Senate Special Committee on Aging

[sandnsea]

13. When you're right

The Giants come to you. Which is exactly what is happening with Obama.

[TwilightGardener]

18. Obama will surround himself with wise, experienced people--he's doing it

already, both in his campaign and in the Senate, and his cabinet and advisors will be stellar--I have full confidence in that. He's smart enough to know what he doesn't know, and he doesn't have the sort of ego that prevents him from reaching out to people who can teach him something. This willingness to learn and seek advice is something I respect about him.

[Grandrose]

20. You beat me to that thought...

I sure can visualize a new generation not unlike JFK's 'The Best and the Brightest' and Lord knows we need them.
Americans should be tired and reject the retreads from the Nixon, Bush 1, Reagan and Bush 2 administrations. Enough!!!:)

[BeyondGeography]

23. Pretty cocky for a guy whose candidate got the war wrong

[beastieboy]

25. Hero worship is foolish. We are all human and we all screw up.

I don't get upset when I find out someone is having an affair or someone is corrupt. I don't worship anyone. You only set yourself up for disappointment.

[Capn Sunshine]

26. so many people these days want someone who will be heroic

because what is out there leave much to be desired thus far. They feel abandoned ; they want some hope.. Obama's charisma brings these folks out. Many have never voted. It's reminiscent of Dean in that respect. Sure he's young, handsome, and extremely charismatic , but its the substance of the man that seals the deal. Every candidate has groupies. Some have more charisma than others. Hillary has loads of charisma, but it's only apparent at 10 feet and less. But she's got it bigtime. John Edwards, he's got it in spades. Up close and far away. His new campaign guys know how to showcase it and have quit trying to pound him into a general candidate mold and are letting him show his compassion. It comes through. Kucinich has it, although its not a flavor I can quantify.

All that said, charisma alone doesn't get you far.