Biden, Bankruptcy, reality, & every candidate's "bankruptcy" bill

[themaguffin]

I like Biden, but he had lost me after that bill.

I then dismissed him in all aspects... Until now, listening to our generally good field of candidates, I just he feel that he stands out on foreign policy and has real viable experience (and track record) to prove it.

Yet the Hillary destiny story is relentless. Obama is the "young" candidate for change etc.

Both are fine. I could support them, as with Dodd, Edwards or others.

Yet the "second" (or is it 3rd) tier can't even get into the story, the race etc.

Biden happens to being making rounds, largely due to his book, which was probably the only way to get that much attention.

Getting beyond the bankruptcy bill is hard to swallow. However, have our Democratic representatives in the auto towns of the great lakes had consistently noble environmental track records with regard to car regulations?

How about our reps in energy (oil) related communities?

Farm states reps? How do our friends in port cities feel about embargos fair trade and other restrictions (for a variety reasons)

In case it gets lost in this, I am not defending any of this, but I would like to see some reality and perspective in relation voting records and leglislative support when hometowns and states are part of the equation.

And again I like our field, but after the debates, I started to actually listen to Biden and while most are saying good things, he I feel has been the most upfront and made the most sense on Iraq.

PLEASE - I am not trying to start a candidate bashing thread. I just wanted to convey my thoughts after a few of the debates and other candidate comments in recent weeks and months and where I am at, at the moment.

[ellacott]

1. I like Biden also

I was disappointed in his support of the backruptcy bill along with the support he received from the credit industry.

I wish people would give him more consideration. When they talk about experience Biden definately has it.

[Captain Hilts]

2. I could like him if it weren't for that bill. But he is clearly a smart guy and has good FP...

experience.

He's been making some good speeches in the well of the senate about poverty, etc. also.

[ellacott]

3. I wonder why no one has challenged him on that bill

Maybe they feel that he's not a big threat so they don't want to waste their time.

[Inuca]

39. Rather because

like it or not, you will not find many senators that vote against the main industry in their state. I guess the argument is even stronger for small states. I am not happy about the bankruptcy bill either, but I like Biden a lot. Not that it matters, I live in IL :-). I hope that somehow he will make an impression on more people, and hopefully provide a surprise in the IA/NH.

[jillan]

4. The Bankruptcy bill -

For those of you that really want to hear Biden get quizzed on it, and not just to use it as a knife in Biden,
you might want to watch this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=m4PQaoC_ZNk

It's about 9 minutes, the beginning is just basic vote for me talk. The quality isn't great, but worth listening too.

That said, as a dedicated supporter, I agree this issue alone is hurting him and hope his campaign staff urge him to take it head on.

[ellacott]

5. Thanks a lot for the link

I also wish that he would address this issue head on.

Our country would benefit from a Biden/Dodd ticket. If you talk about experience that have more than most candidates in the race.

[jillan]

7. Ohhh - i like that!

But the reality is that they are too similar in the eyes of the average citizen, the ones that don't pay attention.

They would be seen as two
Old white men with white hair (one with a heckuva lot more than the other) from a small NE state. :)

[ellacott]

12. It's a nice dream :)

At this time in history our country needs the experience of these two men. The other candidates, except Gravel, are still young and can run at another time.

[Inuca]

40. I agree, I like them both

but they are way too similar, so no way, I am not even sure "I" would like it, though I would be happy with either of them at the top of the ticket (happier than with the "front runners"). I think I am starting to give Biden the edge though, more of an ability to think outside the box, which will be sorely needed given the awful mess the next president will inherit. Plus he is more fun to listen to :-). I checked out the video too, nice. I laughed out loud at the "knock wood" thing at the end, I don't think I saw that since I was in secondary school!

[Captain Hilts]

14. I like Clark, Richardson, Biden/Dodd. I'd vote for any one of them. nt

[Like It Is]

16. Biden/Dodd would be an excellent ticket.

And geographically it's about time. The first easterner since JFK!

[Captain Hilts]

13. Thanks for this. I will look at this because it's the ONE issue I don't trust him on. nt

[closeupready]

6. Has he talked about regrets re: the bankruptcy bill or talked about undoing it?

If not, I'm very skeptical that anybody SHOULD overlook it. (Similar to Clinton's vote on the IWR.)

[jillan]

8. Watch the video - but bottom line - - -

And this is true -

When people claim bankruptcy and don't pay their credit cards, the credit card companies lose money.
The credit card companies want to make money - alot of it as we all know.
So what do they do? They raise their rates, their fees. I know. I got hit
with a $39 late fee the first time I was late on a payment - and I was only 2 weeks late!

What I would like to see is some oversight on the credit card companies. And I know there were alot of meetings about doing something about them. I don't think anything ever happened.

Again - as a Biden supporter, I really wish he would deal with this issue. I feel alot of people are sitting on the fence about him and this is holding them back from supporting him.

[closeupready]

10. I'm familiar with stories about minors getting sent pre-approved cards. Some of those who've

recently declared bankruptcy then get new offers immediately after filing. WTF is up with that? Why is anyone protecting such practices? They make tons of money and this (in part) is how they make it. Something is wrong with a candidate (IMO) who would help protect such irresponsibility on the part of lenders.

I like him, but he needs to change course, though I don't think that will happen.

[jillan]

15. Listen to this - I have a daughter with special needs - she gets offers

on a daily basis!
What worries me, is that someone could get ahold of the apps, take advantage of her by signing her name.

Just what I needed - another thing to worry about with her.

What worries me more is my other daughter getting something to enlist in the military weekly.

How do these places get their names and addresses???????

[ellacott]

9. The youtube link might have your answer

I have to watch it at home because it's blocked on my job.

[closeupready]

11. Ditto - I'm going to watch it later.

Thanks!

[draft_mario_cuomo]

17. I don't have info for credit card companies but here is the data for contributions from banks

Contributions from the commercial banking industry

1) Obama $607,259
2) Clinton $492,725
3) McCain $479,085
4) Romney $451,771
5) Giuliani $416,901
6) Dodd $352,500
7) Edwards $131,876
8) Biden $102,250
9) Richardson $83,000

It is ironic that the people who invoke the bankruptcy bill the most on DU tend to support the banking industry's favorite candidate.

[ToeBot]

18. What's the probability of Biden getting the Bankruptcy Act repealed before the primaries are over?

It's about that likely that I will ever vote for any ticket with him on it.

[Like It Is]

23. Go cast your vote on a video game !

For all it's worth.

[Forkboy]

24. Biden/Doom'08!

[Like It Is]

30. Cheap Shot Artist ! Forkboy !!!!!! n/t

[Forkboy]

42. What? That's a great ticket!

You said yourself Biden is awesome,and Doom is one of the all time great video games.I was just mixing two great things together...like a Reese's peanut butter cup.Two great tastes that taste great together.

And shame on you for not thanking me for giving you a post to respond to after all others have been exhausted so you can kick your own thread again.I expect better treatment from you next time. :spank:

[Hippo_Tron]

19. Biden's advocacy for healthcare reform doesn't get him off the hook for the bankruptcy bill

The fact is that we don't have universal healthcare and may not have it for quite some time. In the meantime people are going to suffer the consequences of the bankruptcy bill. Biden should have continued to opposed bankruptcy reform until universal healthcare was passed if he feels that was the solution. Perhaps he should have even proposed that the two pieces of legislation be combined and passed simultaneously.

What he did instead was get rid of the safety net and left people waiting several years for it to be replaced.

[Like It Is]

20. Responsible people don't concern themselves with Bankruptcy Bill.

They use credit carefully and don't get into financial problems. Back when I was a young man, If you couldn't afford it you didn't buy it. There is fault on both sides of bankruptcy. People overextend themselves. Banks and credit card companies are too lenient in extending credit.

[Greyhound]

21. I suppose that "responsible people" don't get sick or have accidents either...

What a pant-load of Republik crap.

[Like It Is]

22. That's why they carry Insurance.

I've been a Democrat all of my life!

[Greyhound]

25. Go see "Sicko", all those people have insurance.

Registering as a Democrat is the only qualification, so how long you've been one is irrelevant. It's the ideas you hold and the society you advocate that indicates where your allegiances lie.

There are plenty of other Democrats that think "I've got mine, fuck you" is a viable model too. The problem is that once the ruling class gets worried about the mob at the gates, it's the lackeys they throw out to them while they sneak out the back.

[Like It Is]

26. I don't base my life decisions on some movie.

My wife and I have had our share of Medical problems. She's had 3 back surgeries, both knees replaced, wears a brace on her ankle and uses a walker. I had a heart attack and later almost bled to death from taking coumadin. I take 9 different prescribed medications and my wife takes 7. It hasn't put a dent in our savings. I don't have a f--- you attitude. In fact I'm very understanding of people who have suffered misfortunes. The cure is Universal Health Insurance. Not filing bankruptcy. The people who have spent themselves into a hole and keep digging, deserve no sympathy.

[Egnever]

32. We have that universal insurance yet?

When we do get back to me on changing the bankruptcy laws will you?

Till then you have taken a saftey net away from people with no relief in sight.

I like biden but his answer that universal health care will cure that bad vote is beyond stupid.

[killbotfactory]

34. Health insurance won't save you from bankruptcy

Too many people have found that out the hard way.

The US healthcare system is designed to screw people out of money, while providing the least amount of care possible. One of the ways they screw people out of money is by denying legitimate claims for bogus reasons, which can cost people many thousands of dollars.

[demommom]

27. Im curious,

Have you read the "Bankruptcy Bill"?

[jillan]

28. enlighten us!

I know the one thing good that came of it, and that is a divorced parent cannot file bankruptcy
in order to get out of paying child support.

And in reading Biden's book, he fought against the credit card companies during the civil rights era, in order
to have fair lending practices to all regardless of race.

If you have more insight, I would love to hear it.

I confess, this is the one thing about Biden I don't understand.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Egnever]

33. really?

02-Mar
On the Amendment S.Amdt. 28
Kennedy Amdt. No. 28.; To exempt debtors whose financial problems were caused by serious medical problems from means testing.

Biden voted against this amendment to the bankruptcy bill Specifically calling for relief for people whose financial troubles were caused by medical conditions.

I like Biden in fact he is in my top three(I haven't yet decided who I will support in the primaries) but that vote was absolutely wrong.

Sounds to me more like you are running your mouth and calling people trolls cause theres no defense for that vote. Lay off the finger pointing and either defend that vote realistically or admit it was a horrible vote and move on.

I don't like it one little bit but I think the good in Biden far outweighs the bad. By dismissing it as justifiable you make your position way less credible.

[demommom]

36. I agree

with you that the good points for Senator Biden far outweigh the bad points. I also think His good points far outweigh those of the other candi ates and that anyone who has found a candidate that they agree with on every issue either has low expectations or is dreaming. I think that there are good points in the bankruptcy bill;however if you are strongly against it,there is no need to try to change your position. Hope you give Biden credit for other accomplishments.

[jillan]

43. I support Biden but this is one thing I don't agree with.

And I am trying to understand.

It is so out of character for him.
Even tho he is from the credit card capitol of the world, he battled against the credit card companies
in the 70's to provide fair lending to all people, regardless of race. It was one of his pet issues.

I am hoping that his campaign puts out a statement on his vote.
I don't understand.

[Greyhound]

38. The abstract, yes.

The actual http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=109_cong_public_laws&docid=f:publ008.109">text of the law is here and is far more than I'm willing to wade through, but knock yourself out.

[Bluebear]

31. Yes, it's all so simplistic. Like the guy who bought his HIV drugs on credit & went bankrupt..

I saw a story of this guy on TV. He had no health insurance and it was the only way he could afford the drugs...to LIVE. He was not buying crap. He got into credit trouble, of course, and there you sit saying he wasn't responsible.

And before you say there are exceptions for every rule, remember that this legislation provides no exceptions for cases like his.

[sandnsea]

35. Corporations otoh

Make a habit of using other people's money to venture into unknown territories, and if they flop, they just file bankruptcy, change their names, and nobody thinks a thing of it.

Why does nobody ever insist that business be as responsible as individuals, who are at the mercy of big business, are expected to be.

[demommom]

37. themaguffin

Thanks for keeping an open mind.

[Like It Is]

41. My Final Statement on the Bankruptcy Bill.

I personally would have voted the same as Biden on the final bill. The Bill passed on a vote of
74 Yea and 24 Nay. Biden's vote was irrelevant, it would have passed anyway. Half the Democratic Senators voted Yea! On amendments #16 & #28 which failed, on which Biden voted Nay, I would have voted Yea. Biden's vote on the amendments was not the deciding vote! Quit blaming Biden for a bill that needed passing in order to stop abuse of the existing bill. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it bad.