Why does Hillary deserve the "experienced" label?

[Meldread]

She's been a first lady. However, that does not automatically qualify someone to be President of the United States, unless someone is prepared to start printing Laura Bush in '08 bumper stickers.

She's been a Senator. She isn't the only Senator running, and being a Senator doesn't qualify you for being President. Being a legislator and being an executive are two different things. Hillary doesn't really have a record that I'd be proud to run on. She supported the invasion of Iraq and her position is still wishy-washy. By now any candidate who can't stand up and say, "I made a serious mistake, if I could go back and do it differently I would." doesn't even deserve consideration. Aside from that vote, her only other memorable vote was her pandering for a Constitutional Amendment against flag burning. Does this qualify her as being experienced? I will agree that she is certainly experienced when it comes to pandering and making mistakes.

Obama gets trounced hard for his lack of experience, and it may be true that he's wet behind the ears, but he is on record as speaking out against the Iraq War before the first troops even marched onto Iraqi soil. He is on record speaking against the war at a time when 80% of the Country, including Hillary, was throwing all the support they could behind it. He may not be the most "experienced" (depending on how you define it) but judging from past actions he certainly has the better intuition.

EDITED TO ADD:
I am sure Hillary could hide behind Bill and his "experience" but he isn't running for President, and if Bill were to begin poking his nose into presidential decision making if she were elected President, I wonder if that would qualify as a potential breech of the constitution regarding presidential term limits?

[obnoxiousdrunk]

1. Actually Obama has more

expereince in foreign policy. He has lived overseas for 4 years and just recently was on vacation in S Africa.

[Meldread]

4. I'd also add...

...his time as an Illinois legislator and his time in the Senate. Which I do believe (and correct me if I am wrong) gives him more years of experience as a legislator than Hillary. Her only advantage is Bill and the fact that she is a former First Lady, neither of which grant her MORE personal experience than Obama or any other candidate.

[ElizabethDC]

14. self-delete, due to delayed reaction to sarcasm. n/t

[rinsd]

15. I think that poster was being sarcastic (nt)

[obnoxiousdrunk]

18. Thank you.

[ElizabethDC]

19. Yeah, I think I picked up on that afterwards.

I'm still learning to stop and think before I post.

[rinsd]

20. Well sometimes its hard to pick up on.

That why we have the tag!

:hi:

[Lerkfish]

2. 3 of the last 5 presidents were first governors

Carter, Clinton, Bush II.

:shrug:

to be honest, I personally would support someone NOT firmly entrenched in the beltway if I have the chance. I think we need a paradigm change, because the current system has been rotting from the inside for quite a while now. I wish i could say only the republicans, since they brought the contagion, but standing by while the disease rages and doing nothing is enabling the corruption.

[Hippo_Tron]

22. Governors haven't inherently been beltway outsiders since Jimmy Carter

The process starts so early now that Governors who are interested in running for President spend a lot of time building their Washington connections.

It really depends on the particular Governor these days as to whether they could be considered an outsider. On the same token, I think there are Senators who could be considered outsiders because they aren't connected to the establishment.

[Lerkfish]

28. you make valid points.

and I won't gainsay them, so I'll just some additional tangential points.

1. I don't know if "experience" equates to "corrupted", though I often feel that way. It migh be my own prejudices, but I'm a little leery of someone who takes TOO WELL to that environment. I know, even as I type it I realize the conundrum: in order to be effective in that environment, you have to be well suited to it -- but if you are well suited to a corrupt enviroment, that means you're no longer being effective for the right reasons.

feh! heck, I don'tknow anymore.

[MonkeyFunk]

36. 4 out of 5

Reagan, too

[rinsd]

3. Her pandering on the flag burning amendment? She voted no. As did Obama

In 2005 Hillary cosponsored a flag burning bill that was extremely narrow in scope basically dealing with bruning a flag to intimidate others, burning flags belonging to the government, etc.

Last year there was a Flag Burning Amendment up for vote during which an Amendment was offered by Sen Durbin. It was a hope a compromise to stop short of amending the Constitution and nearly identical to the bill cosponsored by Hillary in 2005. Hillary voted for it as did Obama. Obama even citing his support of that bill in his remarks opoosing a Constitutional amendment.

So why do Hillary Haters ALWAYS get their facts wrong? Is it intentional? Is it just ignorance?

[obnoxiousdrunk]

5. Let it go

The Obama folks are still learning.

[Meldread]

7. I'm actually not one of the "Obama folks".

Right now my personal pick changes between Edwards and Obama but I do not have a definite pick. However, I would be happy with any of the candidates we currently have standing up there, with the exception of Hillary.

Why don't you answer the question? Why does Hillary deserve the "experienced" label?

[Meldread]

6. Can you answer the question, then?

Why does Hillary deserve the "experienced" label? How is she more experienced than any of the other candidates?

[rinsd]

12. She isn't more experienced than other candidates.

Dodd & Kerry have far more years of Senatorial service and Richardson has been a governor in addition to serving in Cabinet positions.

I feel she is more experienced than the other big 3 candidates, but that is my opinion.

She has more years in the Senate than either of the other two.

And yes her years as First Lady of the US and AK do in fact bolster that experience as well as her years as a lawyer.

The same as Obama and Edwards years as lawyers and community activists and Obama's years as a state legislator count towards that experience.

Hillary gets the experienced label because she is by far the most well known quantity and has been in the public eye as a political force for 15 years.

I don't think it helps bolster Obama's weakness on this issue to attempt to tear Hillary down on it.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. So let me get this straight...

She cosponsored a flag burning bill knowing full well it was unconstitutional?

Is that supposed to be better?

[rinsd]

13. Actually many felt that bill would pass Constitutional muster.

It was nearly identical to the amendment offered by Durbin to the Flag Burning Amendment bill.

But here look at the legislation for yourself.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?r109:1:./temp/~r109XkFZsc::

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

30. That makes it even worse.

Jesus, what a load of bullshit.

[Jane Austin]

9. I hear her referred to as the most experienced all the time.

That's just silly when you look at Bill Richardson, Biden, and Dodd's resumés.

Seems like she's about on a par with the other two frontrunners, Obama and Edwards.

[quinnox]

10. Who needs experience anyway

Obama is the next Abe Lincoln from what I understand.

Old Abe didn't have any experience either.

[Vincardog]

11. Do you think it might be because it is one of the memes the traveling RW noise machine decided on?

You know they are very limited in their capacity.

They can say "She is inevitable".
They can say "The DemoRATS are united behind her".
They can say "She is SOOO experienced".


After that they have a hard time because their 64K is used up.

[Fredda Weinberg]

16. Guess you had to live thru the original Watergate

But she was already a Congressional staffer ... one of the grown-ups.

Yeah, she's qualified. And if you have a problem with that, you have a problem.

Advocate for your candidate, but question the credentials of mine at your personal peril.

[PBass]

17. I'll try to answer

You can't compare the service (as First Lady) of Laura Bush and Hillary Clinton. Which major piece of (attempted) legislation has Laura Bush had a hand in crafting? Hillary Clinton was much more involved in White House affairs than other first ladies... that's one of the reasons the right wing learned to hate her, early on. If Hillary Clinton had just stayed at home at the White House baking cookies (like Laura Bush) she would have never become perceived as a threat.

[Meldread]

25. I actually find that quality admirable in Hillary.

I am glad that she was a strong first lady, unlike many women who get into the White House and become Stepford wives like Laura. It makes her one of the "modern" women and a good role model for young girls everywhere.

However, at the same time that doesn't qualify her for President. Perhaps she should have run for the Governorship of New York instead of the Senate and then maybe she'd actually have some grounds to make the claim.

It is insulting to people like Richardson for her campaign to try and claim that title. For her to use it in contrast with Obama is also insulting, because he has roughly an equal amount of experience as she does. Really, if it came down to an issue of competence and judgment he'd surpass her simply based on her Iraq War Vote.

[Yael]

21. She doesn't. n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

23. Two national campaigns is the key experience that she has

Perhaps her key role as a policy advisor in the White House, but I mostly think it is the campaigns. As someone stated before, Pickles also meets with world leaders and nobody thinks she should run for President.

Having gone through two national campaigns means that Hillary is a lot more polished and she comes off as a lot more experienced.

[Meldread]

26. That's true.

Hillary is certainly more prepared for the public eye, but does that really qualify her to be president when compared to the other candidates?

[Hippo_Tron]

32. All of the top three have about equal experience, IMO

Dodd, Biden, and Richardson all have considerably more.

[mitchtv]

24. Ah ......leave her alone

She may not be Richardson or Dodd, but she has a lot going for her. I will not vote for her in the primary , but if she wins I sure as hell will try my best to dislodge the Pukes from the Whitehouse. ( Make your words soft and sweet, 'cause someday you might have to eat them)

[Meldread]

27. Well, yes if she wins the primary...

...I will unfortunately be forced to hold my nose and cast my vote in the general. As bad as Hillary could possibly be, it is still better than a marginally worse Republican. That's why I created this thread. She's hogging the media spot light and we have so many great candidates up on stage, each of them having a lot going for them. Many of them with a similar amount or more experience than Hillary. She is undeserving of the label of most "experienced".

[ronnykmarshall]

41. You make me want to release an egg when you talk like that!

:loveya:

[mitchtv]

42. I'll be here all week....

[LostInAnomie]

29. They've already applied the "inexperienced" label to Obama...

... so the narrative is set.

Obama is the "inexperienced" one, and his media coverage will come from that angle.

Edwards is the "$400 haircut that acts like he cares about the poor" so his coverage will always focus the fabricated grain of salt we are supposed to swallow.

Hillary is the "inevitable uber-pol driven by ambition" and because of this the media gives her more credit for experience than others would receive.

[Help me help Earth]

31. None of the likely candidates on either side have the traditional amount of experience.

Senators have a long tradition of losing presidential races. The traditional winners are governors, generals, and VPs. This race is something of an oddity, as it's likely to come down to a senator vs a mayor.

[rucky]

33. The front-runners are the least experienced of the field.

it almost goes in reverse order of experience to polling.

it's obviously not valued among voters.

what do you suppose Chris Dodd is thinking when Hillary and Obama go at it over who's more experienced.

[Meldread]

34. I don't know, but I wish someone would bring it up.

It really irks me and is hugely insulting to the candidates who have vastly more experience than any of the front runners. Really, the whole "experience" issue is cooked up to score points for Hillary and to discredit Edwards and Obama. The reality of the situation is that the big three have roughly the same amount of experience, with Obama having more if you do not count Hillary's time as First Lady.

[ronnykmarshall]

35. You compare Hillary to Laura Bush?

I'm on a roll handing out this today.

[Meldread]

38. Actually, no I did not.

I said that if anyone were to claim that Hillary should be given the "experienced" title simply based on the fact that she was a First Lady, then that would also qualify Laura Bush.

Why don't you go up to #25 where I said this:
"I actually find that quality admirable in Hillary. I am glad that she was a strong first lady, unlike many women who get into the White House and become Stepford wives like Laura. It makes her one of the "modern" women and a good role model for young girls everywhere."

So, I suppose I should fling some of that back at you?

[ronnykmarshall]

39. Why thank YOU!

Ain't nothing better than a good flinging of cow pies!! I grew up in the country.

[illinoisprogressive]

37. Everyone dismisses his 10 years in the state but, counts Hillary's first lady yrs. as experience.

[ronnykmarshall]

40. Oh what a shock!

I don't think anyone dismisses Sen Obama's term in the Ill. state house. But you seem to be so happy to dismiss HRC's experience as a lawyer and a very active spouse of a Governor and President. Would you also say that Mrs. Roosevelt was a slacker?

I think that both Senator Clinton and Senator Obama BOTH have great experience.


But you'll shit on that cuz .... that's what you do.

Nite hon!

[JaneQPublic]

43. For the record, Gore has more experience than the top 3 Dems combined. (n/t)

[Seabiscuit]

44. Obama's a freshman Senator. HRC's a sophomore ("sophomoric"?) Senator. You want real experience?

DRAFT AL GORE!!!