Axlerod: Obama can win in the South (white Edwards and Hillary? Not so much)

[draft_mario_cuomo]

This is ironic. Here we have Obama's top strategist openly arguing that his candidate is the most electable because of his skin color. Can you imagine the reaction if an Edwards or Clinton strategist said that Obama was less electable than their candidate because of his skin color?

Q: What state do you see Obama winning that John Kerry did not?

Axelrod: I think he can and will win every state that Senator Kerry did. I think there are other states that he will win, starting with Ohio. But I think he will put other states in play that no other can put in play. There is no doubt that the energy and enthusiasm in the African-American community will give us a chance in some Southern states where there is a high number of African-American voters, and some who are not necessarily registered to vote. We can increase that registration, we can increase that turnout, and put those states in play.

The other thing is that if you look at these national polls, unlike some of the other candidates, he has enormously high positives and relatively low negatives. If half the voters have an unfavorable impression of you, you are already into a very dangerous area. We don't have that issue.

http://news.nationaljournal.com/articles/070803nj1.htm

[jsamuel]

1. Edwards: If you won't vote for Obama because he is black or Hillary because she is a woman, I don't

want your vote either.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

2. Contrast that to the Obama campaign: Vote against Edwards and Hillary because they are white

:eyes:

[AtomicKitten]

11. self-delete

wrong place oops

[Ethelk2044]

37. Show me where the campaign said that. Link please

[dionysus]

44. thats pure bullshit and you know it.

barack the black power racist? ummmmmmmmm... ok

[draft_mario_cuomo]

47. He is a politician, right?

I have consistently said Obama is not a racist--even when I was criticizing the June memo his campaign sent out, which was racist. So let's put aside that red herring. Obama is a politician. He sees an opportunity to make himself more appealing to primary voters by claiming he can win in the South. Unfortunately, instead of saying he could do so because of his "unity" theme he opted, through his top strategist, to claim that he had some special racial advantage in the South.

[rinsd]

4. I was very proud of Edwards when he made that statement.

[William769]

6. Thats the Edwards class showing.

[AtomicKitten]

18. BRAVO to Edwards for that (nt)

[Radicalman]

20. I hope the rednecks disregard that statement and vote for Edwards anyway!

We have to have Edwards as the nominee. No Democrat in modern times has been elected President unless he is from the South.

[rinsd]

3. "unlike some of the other candidates, he has enormously high positives and relatively low negatives"

Except he doesn't.

All of the big 3's positives have hovered from high 40's to the low 50's.

Obama has hovered in the high 30 to low 40's in negatives though that number is rising.

Hillary has been in the mid to high 40's being relatively stable.

Edwards has remained in the mid to high 30's.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

7. And surely playing the race card against white candidates will increase his negatives

After all, nearly 4 out of 5 voters in America are white. Perhaps the Obama campaign is abandoning the 2000 Rove strategy of running on "unity" too?

[Ethelk2044]

39. link to where Axelrod played a race card. All he did was state facts

African Americans tend to live in the south. They do not like cold weather.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

48. Read the OP. Whites live in the South too

They are also the majority there. Does that mean it would be okay for Hillary to claim her skin color would make her more electable in the South than Obama?

[William769]

5. Well I guess now we can add delusional to their list.

[mitchtv]

8. I'll believe that when

I see it.

[Grandrose]

9. Some of You Hillary/Edwards supporters.....

are real pieces of work! I guess the Hillary camp is not going after the "women" vote? Edwards is not going after the "poverty vote"? African American man cannot be allowed to go after voters who may otherwise not vote?

I guess all those African American voters, Rev. Jackson registered when he ran for president and brought out didn't help the party win seats in Congress?

Some of you in the Obama smear squads should stop and research the history of African American loyalty to the Democratic Party! I hope you do not turn off some of us who think we are taken for granted! Trust me, you will need us when the primary is over!

:-(

[draft_mario_cuomo]

12. Are either touting their gender or race as reasons for voting for them?

Is Hillary saying "Vote for me, I am the most electable, because I am a woman!" Is Edwards saying "Vote for me, I am the most electable because my skin is white!" Let's face it. If either campaign made a similar statement citing their race as a reason why they are more electable than Obama there would be a lot of outrage from BO supporters...

Who criticized the black vote?

[killbotfactory]

13. Do you comb every word coming out of the Obama campaign

trying to find stuff that offends you?

[Grandrose]

19. The race card was used not by me.....

Maybe you should re-read the heading and first paragraph in this post:

Axlerod: Obama can win in the South (white Edwards and Hillary? Not so much)

This is ironic. Here we have Obama's top strategist openly arguing that his candidate is the most electable because of his skin color. Can you imagine the reaction if an Edwards or Clinton strategist said that Obama was less electable than their candidate because of his skin color?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Who criticized the black vote?

The premise is made that African Americans would only be voting for Obama because he is Black and not because we are astute and intelligent enough to agree with Obama based on his campaign is insulting!

Nowhere did Axelrod say anything about Hillary or Edwards, this post was disingenuous and spiteful.
:-(

[draft_mario_cuomo]

24. Let's be honest. Race is a factor

All other things being equal, there are going to be some in each group who are going to be slightly more likely to vote for "one of their own." This is a big part of what Axlerod was alluding to. After all, Obama has the same platform as Hillary.

==Nowhere did Axelrod say anything about Hillary or Edwards, this post was disingenuous and spiteful.==

Axlerod claimed only Obama could bring those states into play. That means HRC, JE, and the rest allegedly can't.

[Ethelk2044]

41. I second that.

[BeyondGeography]

10. Excuse me, but how does this statement mean Obama is "playing the race card"?

<There is no doubt that the energy and enthusiasm in the African-American community will give us a chance in some Southern states where there is a high number of African-American voters, and some who are not necessarily registered to vote. We can increase that registration, we can increase that turnout, and put those states in play.>

This is a positive statement about a candidate's ability to inspire turnout among the base; playing the race card is when you play on the fears of people to win their vote. You're intelligent enough to know the difference and you should abstain from misusing this phrase.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

14. Citing your race as a reason for people to vote for you isn't playing the race card?

What if Hillary said "I am more electable than Obama because I am white. Obama will cause a lot of whites to vote Republican. Therefore you should vote for me."? Or what if Edwards said "I am more electable than Obama because I am a white male. We need to increase our support among white males to win. I will energize and inspire more white males to vote Democratic than Sen. Obama would. Vote for me."? You know what the reaction would (correctly) be...

[BeyondGeography]

15. Get it straight: Playing the race card is a fear-based tactic

Every candidate has natural constituencies, and it's no crime to point them out. Moreover, if Obama hadn't spent his life working to improve conditions for African-Americans, nobody in the black community would give a shit what color he was. When Hillary's supporters cite her strength among women, are they playing the gender card? No. If her record on women's issues sucked, she would be nowhere as well. The fact that she's a woman on the right side of women's issues naturally intensifies her support with women, just as Obama's race combined with his record naturally adds to his base in the black community.

Pointing this out is somehow playing the race card? Bullshit.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

17. How about the hypotheticals I mentioned in post 14?

Would you approve of HRC or JE making such statements?

==Every candidate has natural constituencies, and it's no crime to point them out==

Didn't you once post a thread attacking Edwards for saying he could campaign "everywhere" (a reference to his southern roots, not his color)? If it wasn't you I do remember it being posted by a BO supporter and a lot of outrage from Obama supporters in that thread. Where is that outrage when Obama's top strategist is overtly doing what Edwards was wrongly alleged to do?

[BeyondGeography]

21. If you don't see a difference between a white guy who says

"I can campaign everywhere and Obama and Hillary can't," a vague and open-ended statement that implied advantages of race and gender that had nothing to do with his record, and a straightforward comment that Obama, a lifelong champion of African-American causes, will enjoy support among blacks and get more of them to vote, then we do inhabit different zones of reality.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

22. I see. So when Obama does what JE was wrongly alleged to do it is okay

You have danced around a simple question. What if Edwards or Hillary said "I will energize and inspire more white voters than Obama. Some whites will vote Republican because of Obama. You should vote for me. I am more electable than Obama." You know that is fundamentally the same as what Obama said and you don't want to admit that you would be upset, even outraged, if they said that...

=="I can campaign everywhere and Obama and Hillary can't," a vague and open-ended statement that implied advantages of race and gender ==

That was debunked. He has all year touted his southern roots (the last non-Southern Democrat to get elected president was in 1960). That is what he was talking about. If he cited his race or gender he would be wrong. Edwards has come out, as JSamuel pointed out, and said that he does not want the vote od anyone considering voting for him due to bigotry.

[BeyondGeography]

23. There's no equivalency between black and white "causes" in this country

Are you really that obtuse? The point stands: You have misused and abused the "race card" term in this thread.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

25. Simple question: What would your reaction be to HRC or JE saying that?

I don't have a double standard. If JE sunk low enough to say that I would no longer support him.

There is no equivalency between the racial experiences of whites and minorities in America (something I know all to well. After all, I have never seen, say, a campaign circulate a memo smearing a candidate for his/her support among whites...); however there is absolute equivalency in it being wrong to cite your race as a reason for people to vote for you.

[BeyondGeography]

26. IF race is the only or primary reason being cited, yes

which is not at all what Axelrod was suggesting in the OP. If you have any concept of Obama's record in the black community, that is.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

28. Come on

You know what Axlerod was doing. This is a man who has said issues are not that important in voters' decisions! How many people are going to look up Obama's record? Very few. Most people STILL believe Saddam was involved in 9-11! If most people looked at records and issues Gore and Kerry would have won in landslides (Axlerod is partly correct, although running a campaign that focuses more on personality than issues is going too far imo).

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this it seems.

[Ethelk2044]

42. Axelrod was only stating a fact. There are large numbers of African Americans in the South

[venable]

45. axelrod is a shill, and he is putting forth a bogus argument IMO

every campaign says they are going to win, and they state the reasons why, even if those reasons don't add up.

think about African American candidates in the past. did they win the south because the African American vote was theirs?

No.

Same with Obama.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

46. There are also a large number of whites in the South

What if Hillary said she is more electable because she can get a higher share of the white vote in the South? We would all be correctly denouncing her if she said that.

[beaconess]

27. "I am more electable than Obama because I'm white" need not be said - it's considered a given

How many "America's not ready to elect a black president" comments have we had to endure on DU - and elsewhere? Implicit in that "Obama is less electable because he's black" attitude is an assumption that "Hillary, Edwards, or other white candidates are MORE electable because they're white."

Why is it ok for people to use Obama's race AGAINST him but it's verboten for anyone to suggest that his race could be a positive thing?

Hmmmm.

[Colobo]

29. Thanks for pointing out the hypocrisy.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

30. If the Edwards campaign made that argument I would no longer support Edwards

Edwards in fact said that if anyone is considering voting for him based on bigotry that he does not want their vote.

==Why is it ok for people to use Obama's race AGAINST him but it's verboten for anyone to suggest that his race could be a positive thing?==

No campaign should use his race for or against him. Thankfully, none have. DUers and other "regular" individuals are a different story. It is unrealistic to believe that race will magically vanish for a few hours on Election Day. Obama brings some racial advantages and liabilities. Is he unelectable because there are a lot of racists in the country? No. Obama has a unique appeal that will net him probably enough voters to offset the loss of racist Democratic votes (while most racists are Republican, it is a myth that they are all Republicans). That said, where race does matter regarding Obama is his poll numbers. His actual support is likely lower than what appears in the polls due to the Bradley effect. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_effect

[Ethelk2044]

40. That is bull.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

49. Which parts of the post? nt

[beaconess]

55. The Bradley effect is no longer a given

The last time this phenomenon (also known as the "Wilder effect") was provable was nearly 20 years ago. In recent years, it doesn't seem to be coming in to play. For example, in last year's Tennessee Senate race, Harold Ford actually did BETTER than the polling suggested.

We just don't know at this point whether the so-called Bradley/Wilder effect, a very real thing 20 years ago, will come into play today.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

56. Let's hope so

My concern is, given the importance of the presidency, it will rear its ugly head. I hope it does not, though.

[AtomicKitten]

16. race is being tip-toed over

... and we need to decide if we are going to call bullshit on it from the get-go and not become encumbered by its false sticky tentacles.

Obama's guy was just telling it like it is in America. It is what it is.

I yet again stand freakishly apart from DU in not buying into the traditional pitfalls of dealing with issues of race, gender, sexuality, etc. In fact, IMO the hypersensitivity often creates more unease in a self-perpetuating cycle. My expectation is those on the other side of the aisle will be stupid and ugly, so feck 'em. We're smarter than that.

From T-shirt Hell:

[Hippo_Tron]

36. I don't see a problem with what Axelrod said, not sure it's accurate

But again, it annoys me that people here get all upset when Obama or his team promotes their candidate. I would expect his campaign manager to paint a rosy picture of his chances, just as I would expect Hillary's campaign to do the same.

Instead of point out as I am about to, that I'm not entirely sure increased African American turnout will win him any southern states considering they need to gain 10-20 more than Kerry did in 2004, people accuse him of race baiting.

[AtomicKitten]

38. He's going for it though

... which I think is brilliant.

He's opening up a third headquarters in So. Carolina. w00t

[draft_mario_cuomo]

51. Well, there is one candidate in the race who has actually won in a southern red state

;)

[draft_mario_cuomo]

50. What goes around comes around

I recall the "outrage" from Team Obama when Edwards said he could compete "everywhere" (he meant the South). Now Axlerod says Obama has some special racial advantage in the South and that is kosher according to Team Obama. :crazy:

When did anyone criticize Obama or his aides for promoting his candidacy? That is their job. The only thing I can think of is when he claimed he had better "judgment" than the other 17 candidates for president. Naturally, supporters of other candidates were not going to be happy with that comment.

[AtomicKitten]

58. pssst

It's all bullshit. Seriously. It's much more fun if you go with the flow instead of succumbing to the rough and tumble of the daily grind.

To view politics properly, you must stand back a bit preferably with cocktail in hand.

[MrRobotsHolyOrders]

31. Perfect solution

We paint all of the candidates grey, and change all their names to numbers. For instance, Obama would no longer by Obama, but #7. Richardson, who would also not be allowed to speak Spanish lest his Hispanic heritage influence voters, would be #12. Hillary, or #3, also wouldn't be allowed to mention that she's a woman, lest a gender that couldn't even vote as recently as a century ago should feel some pride in seeing a woman run for president.

#8 (Kucinich), would not be allowed to speak High Elven.

[AtomicKitten]

32. they also must wear patches denoting who their "sponsors" are

[MrRobotsHolyOrders]

33. But, REAL SPONSORS

For instance:

Obama would be "The Establishment"
Hillary would be "The NeoCon Agena and KKKarl Rove"
Edwards would be "Hard Working Americans and all enemies of "they" which want to silence Edwards agenda of Hope.
Kucinich would be "Agnor, Lord of the Elf Realm"*











*Plz. note, I kid the Congressman from Ohio, and prior to my post-journalism degree vow of subservience to the MSM, I interned for his campaign in 2004.

[AtomicKitten]

34. *

I organized a couple fundraisers for him in 2004 and I still giggle when I see garden gnomes.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

52. Great cartoon! nt

:rofl:

[Ethelk2044]

35. There is nothing in there that he said anything about color. Yes,

more african americans will vote who normally do not vote because they want to see obama in the white house. However, Axelrod did not say anything racist. You are the one who is beginning to seam like you are racist with your comments and bringing it up. It is a fact more black live down south instead of up north. They tend to not like the cold climate. Therefore yes some states will come in to play because they live down there. There is nothing racist about what Axelrod said.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

53. That cuts both ways

That is true. However, the flip side is some whites will vote Republican because they do not want a black president. This is also a fact. Now if Hillary or Edwards cited that we would all be correctly condemning them.

[dionysus]

43. and something is wrong with that statement because.....?

[illinoisprogressive]

54. Well, if he can win Idaho (which he is leading) why not the south?

besides, he won over southern Illinois and they are the south.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

57. One can make a legit case that Obama could flip some red states

For the campaign to use race to make it, though, is lame.