No matter how big the crimes of bush/Cheney impeachment is now dead

[Botany]

I didn't read or watch any news over last 2 days and now seeing the capitulation
by so many democrats on the NSA spying has left me with a feeling of total
dejection .....

The bottom line is that bush and company were and will continue to use
domestic spying for political power. In 2004 in Ohio too many things happened
@ a very sophisticated level to phone lines, computer d-bases, and other forms
of communications that it almost certainly had to be done with the help of
the intel community .... and nothing was done.

So how many cases of "terrorism" have been brought to justice thanks to NSA
domestic spying program? I think the answer to that if we could ever see it
would be none.

"They" are caught red handed hacking into the senate dem's computers and
our leaders don't say shit. And neither did the press.

Alberto Gonzales & Karl Rove used U.S. Attorneys as "button men" to manipulate
elections ... caging lists, civil rights violations, charging dems w/ election fraud
as they steal another one, and God only knows what else and our leaders don't
say shit. And neither does the press.

And right after some punk named Jennings tells Sen. Pat Leahy that he can't
tell him what his job was @ the White House because of executive privilege
(BTW executive privilege does not allow you to commit crimes) many democratic
Senators & Congresspersons vote to give the biggest threat to the future of
America aka bush/Cheney/Rove/Gonzales the right to spy on whomever without
any real control what does that tell you about the chance of them standing up
and impeaching anyone? No point in the rule of law and holding people accountable
for their actions anymore.

So to think that these same people are now going to stand up for the rule of
law is laughable ..... And we will have more Pat Tillmans, more manipulated
media, and more of the wrong war in the wrong place, at the wrong time.

[Richard D]

1. Sadly . . .

. . . I think you are right.

[Botany]

3. Who really thinks that Rove didn't use the NSA to spy on Kerry?

This is like handing the gun back to the bank robber if he dropped
it on his way in to do a "job." And cleaning the window of his get
away car as holds up the bank.

I am far more scared of these unelected crooks and what they are
doing than "Islam-o-fascism" abd terrorists.

[CanonRay]

2. If this pack of cowards can get up the cojones to oppose FISA,

they will NEVER have the nerve to impeach anyone, even Gonzalez. Spineless jellyfish.

[snappyturtle]

4. I used to think that being in the majority meant something.

The repukes certainly used it to their advantage....why can't the Dems? Why was the FISA issue brought up right at vacation time, on a Saturday night in one instance? * was probably throwing a tantrum and the Dems succumbed to it....and they certainly don't want to be preceived as weak of the war on terra! I not only feel dejected but meaningless and worthless.....and disgusted!

[Botany]

5. I just don't get it.

Is it blackmail or fear or loyalty that keeps the repugs voting as a block?

Voinovich called the war in Iraq "fucked up" but voted to keep it going.

The RNC/the White House used the phones to block a GOTV drive in New Hampshire
and the dems run away and hide.

The NSA spying was illegal and there was already laws letting law enforcement and
intel listen on any calls that they deemed necessary and bush broke the law by
not getting a warrant but the dems capitulate to the White House?

[MissWaverly]

6. yes, but what if the tables have turned

what if they plan to have a gotcha moment coming up in time for 2008 primary, this could put a stop to this filthy business once
and for all. Maybe they are trying to catch them in the act.

[Botany]

7. In Ohio in 2004

@ Kerry's HQ in Columbus, OH
we had some really good I.T. people and 5 and 6 firewalls were
blown through like nothing. And when we traced it back the hack
went to Island in the S. Pacific and then was gone in seconds.

[MissWaverly]

8. everybody needs to know this, do you realize that

the fbi is now searching a former DOJ official's house becuz he is a suspected leaker, all this corruption of the last 6 years
and they are still squashing leakers, whistleblowers, suspected leakers, suspected whisteblowers who may be innocent.

former DOJ official Tamm

[Botany]

9. and when John Conyers asked the F.B.I. to look into Ohio 2004 ...

.... they did nothing. The level of corruption is staggering.

Rove, Meirs, Jennings, Goodling, Gonzo, and so on either refused
to testify, gave false statements, or gave 1/2 truths.

And even after all that dirt ..... dems still vote to give bush more FISA
power?

My guess is that the U.S. Attorneys were "the button men" and
the NSA spying was used in to track White House enemies i.e. Dean,
Kerry, peace groups, election officials, news media, and so on.

War on Terror more like open war on democracy.


**************************************************************

BTW 56 of the 88 counties in Ohio destroyed their ballots and what not
from 2004 ..... here is one of my favorite reasons .....

Holmes County BOE Director Lisa Welch wrote Brunner that "a shelving unit collapsed in the Board of Elections storeroom on the morning of Friday, April 7, 2006. That shelving unit held the voted ballots, stubs, soiled and defaced ballot envelopes, and ballot accounting charts from the 2004 General Election. The shelves and stored items collapsed onto a side table holding a working coffee maker. The carafe on the coffee maker was full at the time of the incident. Many of the stored items had to be destroyed due to the broken glass and hot coffee. The ballot pages and unused ballots were stored on a neighboring shelf and were not damaged."

[MissWaverly]

10. Yes, my thoughts exactly

and I heard this about Tom DeLay that every time the congressman were thinking of independent action,
he would suddenly just appear "like he was psychic or somethingz." Maybe he wasn't psychic, maybe they
were "bugged" and any time they were talking about opposing the party line they were squashed.

Remember, it has now come out that Gonzo signed a memo giving Cheney access to DOJ investigations
so the office of vice president, OVP had access to the Plame investigation as Fitzgerald
was preparing for the trial.

I also think that is why this secrecy has not been leaked more, they have outsourced the "dirty work"
onto the lower ranks who cover up just to provide themselves cover.

regarding the coffee maker story, that is baloney. They are now able to read papyrus taken from a
garbage dump which as been so soiled that its contents are invisible to the naked eye. They
are now able to read it with NASA technology which uses infared. This is after 2,000 years,
I saw this on NOVA a week ago.

[Botany]

11. or when Senator George Voinovich of Ohio started crying the ....

.... John Bolton is a bad man and what kind of lesson is his appointment
sending to "our kids?" Less than one week later Voinvich was O.K. w/
Bolton ..... somebody got to him (Voinovich).

Be it blackmail, opposition research, or T.I.A. (total information awareness)
.... to me @ least this NSA / FISA is not about terrorism from al Qaeda but
the terror inflicted by Rove & company.


**********************************************
BTW Agent Mike :hi: or to whom ever is watching D.U. get a real job ...
how you can look your self in the mirror is beyond me
..... America was founded on free speech & ideas and
for anybody to be watching D.U. on the taxpayer's dime ..... what a looser
you must be.

And if you are really down w/ the program .... volunteer and go to Iraq.

[MissWaverly]

12. yes and what is the result of all this skull duggery

I think you are right about Voinovich and I noticed the same thing with Hagel, he voted against his own resolution. And the
result the country is in the crapper: infrastructure, economically, country is in hock to Chinese and in a failed war.

[snappyturtle]

13. I'm interested in what you think that "gotcha moment" might be.

To me when the Dems voted for this unchecked or no warrant wiretapping they made themselves complicit to any violations that may occur.

[MissWaverly]

14. no, I agree more will suffer but the gotch moment to me

is when it's revealed that they spied on DOJ officials, congressman and senators, you name it. The congress is not going to consent to their private conversations being bugged, oh no.