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Clark seems to have a fundamental disagreement with Biden on a tripartite "solution."

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calteacherguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-05-07 06:40 PM
Original message
Clark seems to have a fundamental disagreement with Biden on a tripartite "solution."
Edited on Sun Aug-05-07 06:46 PM by calteacherguy
From the question and answer session after Clark's YearlyKos Keynote:

Audience member: You called for one of the hopes for Iraq to hold together. Serious people in foreign policy thinking, some of them believe that that's actually one of the impossibilities at this point in terms of Kurdish independence, Sunni-Shia splits, irreconcilable Sunni Ba'athists who are not going to reconcile to Shia dominance, et cetera, et cetera. In terms of split, three-way split versus holding together and what influence we can have internationally in, with the international community for a settlement in that direction?

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK: Well, you have to be careful about the analogies with, with the Balkans. This is not quite like the Balkans. And so, I know a lot of people talk about this. They say, 'Look, you guys separated, you stopped the war in, in Bosnia. You stopped all this. You separated..' I-it's a little bit different. It's different because the Balkans is not the Middle East. These issues are more complicated. there's oil involved here. There's different populations. There's powerful neighbors who are at odds with each other, and the populations aren't actually separated. So, you're right in that there are fracture lines that you can see forming. You know the Shias mostly have the South and they want it. And the Kurds mostly have the North, but they don't have Kirkuk, and they're prepared to fight Kirkuk. I don't know if you saw the, the Bob Novak piece on the weekend that said we're going to run a special operation inside the Kurdish area to eliminate the PKK guerrillas in combination with Turkish Special Forces. And THAT'll make us really popular there. (laughter) And, and you've got Iran, Turkey.. i-i- This may well be what happens, but I would hate to see the United States propose it and have to worry about implementing it, because it'll be one more recipe for conflict. There's no simple mechanistic way out of this. This is about human dynamics. It's about engagement. It's about changing people's minds. It's about Westernization over a period of time, and it can't be done in isolation in Iraq. You've got to reach out to Iraq's neighbors.

http://securingamerica.com/node/2601

It may be the last thing we need is a President (or even a candidate) proposing what Biden is proposing, because it's a recipe for failure, and the U.S. will be blamed for the consequences. Eventhough failure may well be the end state, we should not be promoting failure. Thoughts?
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-05-07 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. Oil producer's wet dream and Biden is bought and sold.
During the runup to the invasion I walked into a conference room at Purvin & Gertz, a petroleum consulting firm in West Houston on Memorial Drive.

There on the wall was a hand-drawn map of Iraq, divided into three parts.

Blake Eskew (http://www.dogpile.com/info.dogpl/search/web/%252522blake%252Beskew%252522/1/-/1/-/-/-/1/-/-/-/1/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/417/top/-/-/-/1) practically flew across the room to cover it up when I commented on it.

They have evidently taken a firm grip on the ear of Biden.
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-05-07 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. I've had my differences with Clark, but he's right, and honest, about this.
Edited on Sun Aug-05-07 06:51 PM by Kagemusha
There is no easy solution and there are a lot of bad solutions that will run a heavy risk of making things worse.

Having said that, I do not believe that freedom around the world is encouraged through reducing freedom of speech for presidential candidates. If they can't say what the hell they think before getting into office, when can they?

Besides, what Clark's trying to avoid saying is, the international community only settled things in the Balkans after the worst of the ethnic cleansing was already done. There was a more natural stability to preserve. In Iraq, there are still many things people find very much worth fighting for, tangible things like land and oil and not fueled so much by ethnic or religious hatred but tribalism and "us" vs. "them" for physical wealth and security.

Besides, think about it. How would the UN enforce these divisions? By the UN itself supporting the ethnic cleansing of areas of Iraq, say, Kirkuk? It's a mess, and that's only one reason why.
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calteacherguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
3. Kick because I'm curious is any Biden supporters will respond. nt
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