Americans do know that Hillary and Giuliani are supporters of Bush's Iraq War, right?

[Dawgs]

If they do, why do their poll numbers continue to go up?

If not, then WHAT THE FUCK!!!

[papau]

1. Hill's wanting a time table for withdrawel is a bit different the Rudy's position n/t

[TwilightZone]

2. Perhaps they're not one-issue voters?

I suspect you'll get some disagreement on whether or not Hillary supports Bush's war.

[Dawgs]

3. Has she apologized for her voting for it?

If not, then she supports it. If she was too dumb to trust Bush, then she supports it now. If she couldn't see what was coming, like others saw, then she supports it now.

[wyldwolf]

6. do you mean has she kissed your ass and begged forgiveness? Nope! And I'm glad.

[rinsd]

7. So what if she saw what was coming but still voted for nearly every funding bill for the war?

I guess BO fans are freaking because he is getting slaughtered in the polls right now.

Perhaps he will have figured who he wants to talk to and who he wants to rattle sabers at by tonite's debate.

[Dawgs]

20. So, instead of defending her you attack Obama.

Why is that all Hillary supporters have?

[draft_mario_cuomo]

22. BO fans attack HRC and JE on Iraq 24/7

Why do BO fans get upset when BO himself is questioned? It is about time BO's record on Iraq gets scrutinized....

[rinsd]

23. From someone who started a thread attacking Hillary.

Do you have any idea how foolish you now look?

[draft_mario_cuomo]

10. Obama has been identical to Clinton on Iraq since he acquired national power

So does that mean he supports it too, in your view?

[Dawgs]

12. No it doesn't!!

[draft_mario_cuomo]

19. So candidate X supports the war, candidate Y does the same thing and does not...

support the war? :wtf:

[rinsd]

18. No, such contradictions don't bother some BO supporters.

Its right up there with lobbyist money is the worst thing in the world except when taken via spouses or no longer registered lobbyists.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

21. Exactly

The funniest part is that the only time BO was different than HRC on Iraq was when it was politically expedient. Once he was subjected to the same political forces as HRC he became identical to HRC. Coincidence?

[Dawgs]

5. Voting for the Iraq war, and not apologizing for it, is not one-issue.

It's every issue.

If she can't be trusted to make good judgement on a bill like this, how can we trust her on anything else?

And, if she feels like she made a mistake, and can't apologize for it, then she's no better than Bush.

Is that what we want?

[TwilightZone]

8. It's not "every issue" to the average voter.

The average voter doesn't see Iraq as "every issue". They see it as one of many. If you believe that they make the connection between Iraq and health care or unemployment or social security, you're overestimating their political savvy.

[Dawgs]

14. Okay, so what other issue is Hillary so great on?

Since you know the average voter so well, can you tell me why they would like her over someone else?

[TwilightZone]

24. Perhaps you should ask them. But then, someone already has.

Do a little research. Look into the polls and look at the secondary questions asked of the respondents. That should give you a pretty solid idea of her relative strengths and weaknesses, according to the potential voters.

For the record, she's not even my first (or second or third) choice. The constant barrage of hyperbole from supporters and detractors of many of the candidates is just getting a little tiresome.

[wyldwolf]

4. Americans do know John Edwards co-sponsored it and Obama has voted for it alongside Hillary ...

[Dawgs]

11. So does that mean you don't support Hillary, Edwards, or Obama?

Your response is Rove spin. It's the same shit Hannity pulls.

'Well, Bill Clinton agreed that Saddam was a bad guy'

[wyldwolf]

13. I would gladly support all three

Your response, and your OP, is another sign of an acute case of OCD.

[Dawgs]

15. So, you have no problem with the Iraq war, or its supporters?

[wyldwolf]

17. I have ZERO problem with how people voted five years ago

[rinsd]

16. You're upset about framing?

Oh the hypocrisy.....

[draft_mario_cuomo]

9. Few people worship at the altar of the IWR. Ask President Dean and Vice President Clark nt

[RaleighNCDUer]

25. Two points --

No, I'm not sure that the general public DOES know they both support the war.
And,
As long as Gannet and Murdoch control the media, Hillary and Ghouliani will be played up, and the other candidates played down, so that Hillary and Ghouliani will gain just on name recognition alone, no matter what their positions are.

[ericgtr]

26. Though I am not a Hillary supporter

I can't fault her for this, I have heard her say she voted for it under false pretenses in the past, just like most of them did. I am certainly not basing my (so far undecided) opinion on whether or not a candidate initially voted on this war.

[BeyondGeography]

27. In support of Dawgs, the joke is on us if we keep giving pro-IWR voters a pass

Any of the pro-IWR candidates we have currently could win the election in 2008, but what it will ultimately mean is the next time a war resolution comes down the pike that has TRAGIC MISTAKE written all over it, poll-driven politicians can vote for it without fear. Why? Because, if present trends continue, Democratic voters ultimately didn't give a shit about IWR.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

29. You seem to have forgotten about 2004

The IWR was a much bigger deal in the primary campaign then than now. If Obama did not have to resort to the IWR card so early it would be almost irrelevant in this year's campaign. What happened in 2004? IWR voters finished 1-2-4 in Iowa and captured over 80% of the vote. Two IWR voters battled for the nomination and two IWR voters were put on the ticket. The truth is few people simply give a damn about which way someone voted 5 years ago on the IWR. Obama fans are in denial over this. They need to have a talk with President Dean and Vice President Clark...

[BeyondGeography]

31. I don't need history lessons from a guy who says five years ago doesn't matter

But thanks, anyway. Really. It's touching.

[sampsonblk]

28. A few reasons

1. She is a woman running for president. To borrow from what Obama correctly pointed out, if she wins, it instantly changes everything. Many women were hoping to see a woman president someday. We're long overdue. In fact, its shameful that we've never had one. Now's our chance!

2. People remember the Clinton administration - the Golden Age of America. Who wouldn't want to return to that? Just the other day, I heard President Clinton talking, just as an aside, about the books he's reading at the moment. Many (like myself) remember listening to him and feeling enlightened. Those were the days.

3. We all know she's going to reverse as much of Bush's nonsense as possible. So the argument that she's just like Bush isn't working.

4. The right wing will need therapy the day she's inaugurated. That's a good thing. What's the worst we could possibly inflict on the criminals? Elect their worst fear - Hillary Clinton!

[draft_mario_cuomo]

30. HRC preferred on Iraq by 20 points over BO in Gallup poll

Face it: few people are going to vote based on the half decade old IWR.

* The war in Iraq: Clinton 56%, Obama 36%

:rofl: