Um...Obama, Canada does not have a president. It has a prime minister (another gaffe?)

[draft_mario_cuomo]

Obama may have made an early gaffe that once again will raise the experience question. He just said he would call the "president of Mexico and president of Canada...". The problem? Canada does not have a president. It has a prime minister...

[msongs]

1. well ya know illinois is a LONG WAY from canda...minor gaffe at best... nt

[Hieronymus]

40. Actually, Chicago is pretty close to Canada.

[terrya]

42. It's 513 miles from Toronto.

[muriel_volestrangler]

75. And it's 1792 miles from Yellowknife

and 336 miles from London. What's so special about Toronto?

[terrya]

77. A place I like to visit.

My partner, the love of my life, lives in Toronto. That's why Toronto is special to me.

[WCGreen]

99. And it's about 180 million miles from Jupiter...

[Hieronymus]

103. It's 238 miles from Chicago to Detroit, which is on the Canadian border.

[Ediacara]

59. I guess it's a long way compared to Milwaukee, but it's hardly far away...

[Clintonista2]

2. Yep, I saw that too. nt.

[bigdarryl]

3. who the fuck cares JESUS!!!!!

[MethuenProgressive]

12. Not the Obamaramas... (who probably think Canada has a President, too...)

[Mass]

20. No, but they may understand that Obama knows that too.

I guess you never mispoke in your life.

[youthere]

106. Who cares? It's CANADA.

I'm kidding! I'm kidding! Don't hurt me!
:hide:

[Ethelk2044]

4. So what? Big Deal.......

:rofl:

[Clintonista2]

6. Ignorance of other countries is a key characteristic of the current administration

Do you really want 4 more years of that type of attitude?

[Mass]

21. Never mispoke? Amazing how DU is full of people who never mispoke.

The difference between Obama and Bush is that Bush is ignorant. Obama made an error when he spoke, it does not mean that he does not know that.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

26. How do you know what Obama thinks and knows?

The real Obama is on the stage in Chicago right now, not posting on DU.

[seriousstan]

29. Is the DU full of people running for the most important office in the world?

That was a freshman in high school mistake.

[Ethelk2044]

33. He is correct about the foreign policy. He made the people who smeared him look stupid.

[Ethelk2044]

50. No, misquoting a title did not cause our current political situation

it's the lack of diplomacy, skill, ignorance, arrogance, stubbornness and a seriously flawed foreign policy that has us in this bind. I don't mind a gaffe over a title, but a gaffe over foreign policy I detest.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

10. He is running for prez, says he is ready for the job but apparently has no clue about Canada?

You know, that big country next to us? If he has no clue about Canada what does he know about the rest of the world? At any rate, even ignoring the merits of this, the media will likely seize on this as another example of Obama's inexperience.

[Clintonista2]

13. A few years ago, Bush travelled to Canada and

Met with the Prime Minister, where he was to discuss the American ban on potato exports from the province of Prince Edward Island. The Prime Minister commented later that he had to explain to Bush where Prince Edward Island was before he could discuss the ban. Obama's comment is even worse than that, IMO.

[terrya]

18. Well, Canada is one of our closest friends and allies.

And Canada is our largest trading partner.

They joined us in our war in Afghanistan, where they're still there. They refrained from joining Bush's war in Iraq, but that was just good sense on their part.

Yes, it is a big deal, in my opinion. If Obama wants to be President Obama, it would be kind of nice to know about our friends to the North.

[Kagemusha]

5. ...That is the lowest nitpick I have seen yet.

I'll refrain from other comments.

[Ediacara]

61. Lowest nitpick? it's like a 4th grade civics fact!

[Kagemusha]

72. Exactly. Who in America goes around discussing the matter beyond 4th grade?

Deciding a president on this basis would be silly. 4th grade silly.

[Ediacara]

83. Uh, anyone with any sense of the outside world?

Do you think Canada has a president?

:eyes:

[Kagemusha]

84. I know all about Canada... that's why I'm not hard on people about it.

The post of Governor-General is one of the least intuitive things for an American to remember about Canada, all that representing the Queen stuff and so on. Some people on this thread seem to think only "perfect" people should be presidents. That, in and of itself, is 4th grade foolishness.

Obama is a constitutional scholar, right? Surely you're not questioning his intelligence? So why use a slip against him as a sign that he's not worthy to lick Hillary's shoes?

[Ediacara]

86. Did I say he wasn't worthy to lick Hillary's shoes?

There is quite a substantial gulf between "perfect" and "lacking basic knowledge about other countries."

I'm honestly pretty perplexed that so many DUers are so willing to give Obama a pass or claim this is petty when DUers ripped into Bush for calling Spain's PM a "president." Spain's PM's official title is "legislative president" so Bush was almost correct with his gaffe.

Additionally, I'm not sure that this was a slip. Generally when people make slips of this silliness, they immediately correct themselves. Since neither you nor I nor any other DUer can read Obama's mind (despite the fact that many of them would like to pretend they can), I'll have to assume that he acts and speaks like most people and that when he said "President of Canada" and didn't correct himself he really thought that Canada had a president.

[Kagemusha]

92. Fine, assume that Obama is a blubbering fool all you like.

I didn't attack Bush for that slip or others either. So let's assume Obama is a blathering idiot. Fine. Whatever. Like I care.

Good day.

[Ediacara]

93. You obviously care since you keep responding

Good day yourself... :eyes:

[terrya]

7. That's shockingly ignorant.

I'm sorry, but it is. For fuck's sake, even *I* know that...and I'm not running for President.

[bgb217]

8. Me too....

I caught this, too. And would have laughed, if not for the seriousness of this issue. It truly raises questions...

[bgb217]

9. More of a nitpick..

Than saying, we both agree on meeting with foreign leaders, but I would do it better, so I am right and you are old and therefore wrong?

[MethuenProgressive]

11. Two Ivy League degrees, and no basic knowledge of government?

Says more about Columbia and HArvard than it does about Obama...

[1620rock]

14. Well, thats the state of education in Amerika today. It's a good thing

they didn't ask him the name of the prime minister...sheesh.

[Tellurian]

44. US History and Geography , Obama has little to no knowledge of...

[rockymountaindem]

15. It also has a Governor General

Fun times...

[draft_mario_cuomo]

16. Yes. Michelle Jean. The governor-general is appointed by the Queen of England nt

[rockymountaindem]

17. I know

Obama may have gone to Ivy League universities and still talk about the "president of Canada". I, on the other hand, attended the University of Toronto, and I know all about the Canadian government :)

[Mass]

19. Never said accidentally something because you were caught in the rythm of a sentence.

I am pretty sure he knows that! But, of course, it is more important to jab at minor gaffes than to really analyze what the candidates propose.

[rockymountaindem]

27. I know. I'm just responding to a remark someone made upthread about Harvard and Columbia

and I wanted to get in a plug for my alma mater (now that I have one). When Obama said that, though, I knew people would be all over him. I agree with you that it's unfair.

[Clintonista2]

24. Well, in fairness, U of T is the equivalent of Canada's Harvard. NT.

[ncabot22]

49. Not to nitpick but..

Our Governor Generals name is Michaëlle Jean and the Prime Minister chooses the GG who is then named GG by the queen. She has very little say in who is appointed and has to appoint whomever the PM recommends.

Sorry...proud Canadian here. Carry on. :)

[Clintonista2]

57. She is appointed by the Queen, on the recommendation of the PM.

[ncabot22]

67. Yes but

the PM chooses her. Some Americans think the Queen chooses the GG. Not true. Paul Martin chose our current GG, well recommended her, and the queen had to appoint her. I don't think there has ever been a case of the queen refusing to appoint a GG that a prime minister has recommended, right?

[Clintonista2]

68. As far as I'm aware, no but

That doesn't mean she couldn't refuse if she wanted to, it is HER representative after all. I'm Canadian too btw.

[jefferson_dem]

22. Lame.

Desperate.

Petty.

Stupid.

You should do better.

[Indenturedebtor]

104. Agreed

He mispoke. Or lets assume for a second that he doesn't know the exact component makeup of every single one of our allies so well that he's immune to these gaffes.

Um, who cares? :shrug: I'm not behind Obama though he's in my top three. Frankly I'll take someone that answers questions, has detailed and maleable plans to fix things, and is vocally against the corporate lobbying groups. If he is ignorant of the exact makeup of every government around the world, but knows how to fix ours, i'll take him ;)

[thatsrightimirish]

23. wow what a deal breaker

:sarcasm: Are you serious? Like Americans really care. He opposed the war from the beginning and I think that matters to more people.

[emilyg]

25. I care. Basic knowledge - not like bush all over again.

[thatsrightimirish]

30. You're right

I'm sure all of America is in outrage, Obama supporters better close their windows and lock their doors because if they see the Obama window signs they'll invade the house . Kinda like we invaded Iraq!

[emilyg]

37. No need for sarcasm.

I do hope the next Prez. has a little more knowledge than Bush.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

28. If Americans didn't care why are BO fans quickly doing damage control/whining in this thread?

Let's face it. This will simply reinforce the perception of him being too inexperienced to be president.

[thatsrightimirish]

34. Oh please

While Edwards was busy combing his hair and supporting the war, Obama was organizing communities and opposing the war.

[Clintonista2]

38. Don't kid yourself, Obama didn't oppose the war

Whydid he vote to fund it up until Hillary decided not to?

[thatsrightimirish]

39. Well

#1 Obama voted to defund the war before Hillary did
#2 He did oppose the war in 2002 when Hillary supported it

In conclusion Obama= Opposed the war/ Clinton= Supported the war

Don't get me wrong, I like Clinton, but that's just what happened

[draft_mario_cuomo]

45. You have a point. Obama voted to defund the war about 2 minutes before Clinton did

And after courageously remaining silent for weeks leading up to the vote.

[thatsrightimirish]

52. And Clinton was any different?

I was responding to a post that said obama voted to defund the war only because Hillary decided not to. Which wasn't true. And he did vote to defund the war which is certainly more then Edwards ever did when he was in the Senate.

[laugle]

55. It's called follow

the leader!!!!

[killbotfactory]

31. It's over. Obama is finished.

:sarcasm:

[madrchsod]

32. much to do about nothing

[MethuenProgressive]

35. Canadians won't be surprised, they're quite used to US ignorance

and used to the "big deal" attitude toward them by most Americans...

[draft_mario_cuomo]

36. Ordinarily, yes but not in Obama's case. This only reinforces the perception of him on experience

[PurityOfEssence]

51. That's "ado"

Which is nothing like "a don't".

Shakespeare laughs drunkenly, and yep, he's the guy what wrote all that rot.

Ain't tongueage fun?

[Dawgs]

41. At least he didn't get booed.

Your attempt to bring down Obama is pretty pathetic; as usual.

[Colobo]

43. ZING!

[draft_mario_cuomo]

46. So why are you always in my threads?

:rofl:

[Canuckistanian]

47. Oh, good grief

This doesn't insult us in the least. We're used to hearing it from people of other countries.

In fact, very few countries have a "prime minister" for a leader. It's kind of unusual.

Get a grip, people.

[PurityOfEssence]

48. Hey, I hear he's got a summer place in those "mountains between Afghanistan and Pakistan", too

I'm pretty sure there's nothin' unincorporated in there, so that must be that picturesque little area of the Obamanite Kush in WhateverthefuckIsayitisstan. Nice place, too, except for those locals; ya gotta watch it: they'll never miss a chance to rip you up. And that's "up", too, not "off".

(chirp...chirp...chirp...)

Woah...tough cave to play...

Hey, but really folks, ya bin great; ya bin laden and ya bin great; I'll be here all season.

Try the goat.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

53. Youre the Prime Minister of inane anti-Obama snipes.

[laugle]

54. Yeah, when he said he was going to call the president's of

Canada and Mexico, I got scared he was going to make another threat! Dodged a bullet on that one!

[ripple]

56. He misspoke. Nothing more, nothing less

I've heard most all of the candidates insert an inadvertant gaffe into their rhetoric. This is not an indication of his world knowledge and it certainly shouldn't distract from the point he was making.

[Ediacara]

58. NOT ready for prime time. Not by a long shot.

Kudos to Biden for not so subtly pointing it out.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

60. Yeah I caught that too. Smart move by Biden nt

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lisa]

63. maybe the Senator knows something we don't know!

Fellow Canadians -- it's what we've always suspected -- they're going to invade us!

Ironically, the Democrats would have a lot more to gain than the Republicans would. If Canada became another state (or even a collection of states), it's a pretty fair bet that most of the electoral votes would be going to the Dems. All regions (even Alberta) have consistently preferred Democratic presidents in the US (certainly for the elections with Bill Clinton, Gore, and Kerry).

[incapsulated]

65. It doesn't matter that it was a minor gaffe...

What matters is the media will use this as another reason he is "not ready for prime time". He really can't afford to make these mistakes. It's not fair but there it is.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

66. Exactly nt

[killbotfactory]

69. The media doesn't give the public enough credit

to know that Canada doesn't have a president, so they won't make it an issue. Also, because it's not a big deal to begin with.

[incapsulated]

70. It's not one thing...

It's now they are keeping a list of all his gaffes and he is making more now that the race is heating up. It doesn't matter if the audience wouldn't know, they expect him to know.

Look, he is running against a woman who does not allow herself to make mistakes, not missteps like this, and he has the "rookie" tag on him. Like I said it's not fair but that is the race.

[CalebHayes]

71. I'll take the guy that was against the war and doesn't know that Canada has a PM

rather than someone who voted for the war and will not admit it was a mistake.

[Kagemusha]

73. Hey lots of countries have presidents and PM's. Iraq does.

To understand the vestige governor-general system and how Canada's head of state is technically the Queen, but she has an acting head of state called a governor-general, hey, if Americans wanted to live under a system like that, there wouldn't have been any war of independence. Even if you know it, remembering it is not going to be natural for everyone when you're in the middle of talking about other countries that DO have presidents.

That's why I said earlier that it's nitpicking.

[Hippo_Tron]

74. Perhaps he misspoke?

That does happen on occasion.

[MaineDem]

76. We faulted Bush for this sort of thing

I expected better from Obama.

[Alamom]

78. Everyone or anyone else would be faulted for it , too. It seems for some reason

unknown to me, Obama, Obama's supporters and team are constantly telling us "what" he meant to say, "what" he said was different than "what" we heard and these little, tiny, wee mistakes are meaningless.


He's making too many little mistakes, IMHO.


You are right, MaineDem. We have beat GW*B to death over his "little" mental lapses, forgetting names and getting mixed up.

I'm not up for another 4 or 8 years of trying to interpret what the prez means to say but doesn't.


This may be a nit pick, too ...what's up with "O" starting evey sentence with "LOOK"?

It's annoying to say the least.


& Pat Buchanan does it. :puke:


edsp

[PurityOfEssence]

81. He's definitely a guy with an ever-changing history

On and on he kept reminding us that he'd been praising Musharraf and saying that we should work with him. He made it sound like he'd been repeatedly on the record with this, only once saying that we might have to go over his head in an extreme case. Boy, I'd like to hear ANY of those statements of late. The thrust of the statement that got him into trouble was one of being a no-nonsense tough-guy going after duplicitous bullshit, not one of a conscientious ally. What hogwash.

He also kept repeatedly saying "the mountains between Afghanistan and Pakistan" (which is a place that doesn't exist; you're either in one country or the other) in an attempt to distance himself from the statement of needing to be on the "right battlefield on Afghanistan and Pakistan".

It's more of the "whatever I say" presidency. For this wholesale disregard for reality and his own statements, he's in a league with Cheney. The whole approach reeked of deliberate deception, and far too many of his acolytes just eat it up. His answers were transparent distortions, yet one poster on this board even calls him "god". That's not "A god" or "god jr." or "associate god", that's the biggest and mightiest of the mighty himself. In a way, this is worse than the demagoguery of the Deanies at their worst, and it almost rivals some of the extremists among the Clark camp. (I said almost; that's an awfully high bar to clear...)

[Kagemusha]

85. ....Am I reading you right? Obama = Dick Cheney? Seriously?

And you're saying that people who disagree with you are worse than the *demagoguery* of the Deanies, and the *extremists* among the Clark camp?

Did you read what you wrote before posting?...

Have a nice day.

[PurityOfEssence]

95. No, that's not the intention

I should certainly stay away from any comparison to someone as truly evil as Cheney, though. Obama's not even a member of that species.

The problem is the rewriting of history, with which I have a HUGE problem. Obama's head and shoulders above any other candidate here on that issue--which is not to his credit--and I used an unfortunate comparison here.

Be fair though, what I wrote is NOT a straight equating of Obama and Cheney, and for you to resort to that is distortion of your own. If my hyperbole was overly strident by association with a despicable individual (Cheney), yours is at least as inflammatory.

I actually put a fair amount of efforts into my posted annoyances; the problem here is that I'm getting increasingly frustrated with Mr. Obama's flagrant rewriting of his personal history, and I'm getting even more annoyed with some of his partisans seeing nothing wrong with this. Just because a person's "good", many think he/she is exempted from the normal societal restrictions of honesty. At some point, the person is no longer "good" if the person is willing to distort and deny with regularity, and the person's judgment is in serious question to try it in this age of instant factual recall.

I'll back off from the comparisons like this, but I was having a difficult time coming up with an example of someone as guilty of distorting events. It's a BIG issue, and it seems to be just fine with far too many.

So, I suck here; what do you have to say for yourself? Upon rereading my post, is it even slightly fair to characterize that as saying that Obama equals Cheney? Were you REALLY unsure about that, or was that a rhetorical question in a backhanded smeary kind of way? For my misstep, does that open me up to such tactics and absolve you of the obligation of fairness to which I should be held?

Having said all that, your point is well taken: the subject matter is incendiary enough; I should keep away from comparisons to any traits displayed by certain true skunks like the VP.

Was your summation called-for? Is this just part of the way of the shadow warrior?

[Kagemusha]

96. "For this wholesale disregard for reality and his own statements, he's in a league with Cheney."

Dear Mr. or Ms. Victim, I don't want to burst your bubble, but you're making a claim that Obama is simply not part of the reality-based community. Don't bother walking away from that claim. You obviously believe it. That's fine with me.

[PurityOfEssence]

97. Identical tactics don't mean the people are exactly the same

So I guess you're backing off from suggesting I'm saying Obama is equal to Cheney. Thanks for the retraction; it was quite mature of you.

I'm not backing away from my observation about Obama's deliberate distortion of history and I didn't do that in the second post in this exchange; he IS veracity challenged on this issue and he's done it quite a few times. If it makes you feel more adult to characterize people who disagree with you as being somehow emotionally inferior and wallowing in victimhood, feel free; glad to bring joy. How you read this from that post, however, is mystifying.

I've backed away from using any comparison between Cheney's tactics and Obama's because that's just too highly-charged a reference to use and expect any rational discourse.

You use a fine term here that was pioneered by this administration, and to continue the allusion further, he DOES create his own reality and he seemingly scoffs at anyone who questions his interpretations of his own words. How you get the impression I'm retracting that is beyond me, so you can drop that assumption. That's precisely what he's doing, it's not an admirable trait and I'll bring it up again if he sees fit to continue with such twaddle.

[Ediacara]

87. I remember pretty clearly when DUers ripped into Bush when he called Spain's Aznar "president"

But Obama is made of golden teflon...

[Dawgs]

89. Speak for yourself.

Bush does it constantly, and usually when he's reading from a prepared speech. Obama did it in a debate format when he only had 30-60 seconds to respond.

[BigDDem]

79. I wonder if he'll ever call the president of the UK?

not.ready.for.prime.time.

[ellacott]

80. You guys are something else

**Shaking my head**

[LanternWaste]

82. Gotta be honest here...

Gotta be honest with you here... I haven't really decided on a candidate yet, so I don't really have a dog in the hunt at this point.

That being said, you bringing up this particular point is one of the most banal, sophomoric, knuckle-dragging bullet-points I've come across in a long, long time.

Might I suggest you edify the candidate you have chosen rather than wasting time by tearing down the candidates other have chosen...

:eyes:

[Dawgs]

90. Pay attention to dmc's posts; 90%+ attack Obama.

And I question his/hers John Edwards image. He/her never defends attacks on Edwards, and they never start posts praising Edwards.

Why is that?

:shrug:

[liberalpragmatist]

88. Is there any evidence this wasn't just a slip of the tongue?

If he gave a speech where he repeatedly referred to the "President of Canada," that might be cause for alarm. In a throwaway line in a debate, it doesn't strike me as significant.

[LeftishBrit]

91. I think there was an American politician once (not sure who)...

who referred to (Canadian PM Brian) Mulroney as 'Muldoon'.

(Yes, Canada and New Zealand *are* pretty much the same country!)

And Gerald Ford once gave his best wishes to President Sadat and 'your great country of Israel' - this was before Camp David, when the two countries were still bitter enemies.

Compared with that, Obama's gaffe seems pretty minor.

[beaconess]

105. and let's not forget JFK's "I am a jelly donut."

[sidwill]

94. Bigger gaffe: Voting for the war or getting Canada's

prime minister wrong?

Maybe the thread starter can superimpose Obama's head over Deans and produce an Obama "scream" video while they are nitpicking on this one too.

[AtomicKitten]

98. I say flog him. (nt)

[goodgd_yall]

100. I don't think the gaffe is important but it does sound like something * would say. n/t

[calteacherguy]

101. Oh, you've got to be kidding. What difference does it make?

It's just a matter of semantics! EVERY candidate will make mistakes in speech. I wouldn't be surprised if Obama knows there is a Prime Minister in Canada, and knew it when he made that statement.

[CTLawGuy]

102. He was smart enough to know

that it's a bad idea to give a maniacal president carte blanche to go to war. I'll take that over a technical error about Canada's government.