MALLOY: "Edwards/Clark would be a good ticket!"

[MalloyLiberal]

Just now.

[LSparkle]

1. Wow -- a friend of mine said that last time

Either way -- Clark/Edwards or Edwards/Clark. I'd go for it, too.

[Inspired]

2. I think so, too. n/t

[Sparkly]

3. Gore/Clark.

Gore/Clark is more likely to happen than Edwards/Clark... which should indicate how likely Edwards/Clark is.

[MalloyLiberal]

5. It's possible. I know you hate Edwards.

[Clark2008]

19. It's not a matter of "hating" Edwards.

It's that Edwards and Clark are like, well, a milkshake and fine wine. :shrug:

[draft_mario_cuomo]

41. In your opinion

Clearly, many people think Edwards is a fine wine in 2007 and many also did in 2004.

[Stop Cornyn]

62. Clark is no milkshake. He'd definitely add to an Edwards ticket. I think Obama and Richardson have

both passed Clark as the most likely (and best suited) running mate for Hillary (I used to think Clark had that gig sewn up, but Hillary won't admit a mistake on the Iraq war vote and Clark as a running mate would emphasize that plus Clark's relative newcomer status within the Democratic party and his past support for some Republicans would only exacerbate Hillary's perception as a triangulator with the capacity to make politically opportunistic policy decisions).

Edwards or Hillary (or even Dodd) better balance Obama as his running mate than Clark (Obama doesn't need a running mate who's never held elective office because it would emphasize the experience issue).

If Clark shows up on anyone's ticket, it has to be as Edwards's running mate. Frankly, Edwards is the candidate who will make most Southern states competitive enough to benefit from Clark's geographic base of most intense support and who would also benefit from having Clark's simpatico domestic agenda and Clark's gravitas on war and military policy issues -- which would threaten Clinton).

Unless Edwards gets the nomination, Clark will see no more than a cabinet appointment at most.

[LSparkle]

8. From your fingers to God's (and Gore's) ears

That would be STELLAR!

[MalloyLiberal]

9. It will never happen.

Edwards is more possible than Gore, and we know Sparkly hates Edwards with a passion.

[Sparkly]

14. Huh??

I don't hate any Democrats with a passion. :shrug:

[Adelante]

48. Of all people

:hug:

[Cameron27]

57. No you don't Sparkly,

and it was a nasty, rude comment from someone who clearly has no idea what the hell they're talking about.

[silverojo]

4. AMEN TO THAT!!!!!!! N/T

[TwilightGardener]

6. I prefer Obama/Clark, but will take Edwards/Clark gladly.

[ripple]

32. Obama/Clark is perfect!

but I could live with Edwards/Clark if I really had to.

I really, really want Obama at the top of the ticket, though.

[msongs]

7. a ticket without the new jesus christ? no candidate worshipped as a new god? hmmm nt

[PlanetaryResident]

10. BRAND NEW DAY

Hey folks. Sorry to interrupt the thread. The
PlanetaryResident here. I am joining in your site and
like-minded others to sow the seeds of BRAND NEW DAY. Maybe
not an entirely novel idea, but I want to make this a
groundswell, a grass roots phenom. Brand New Day is
Innauguration Day, January 20, 2009. It doesn't matter AT ALL
who wins that election, we all need to take the extra holiday
off work, get gloriously loaded and play in the streets,
because on that day, the neo-con ideologues who stole our
country will be gone, returning America to its rightful
owners. I mean this. This needs to be an additional holiday
that the ENTIRE COUNTRY will take off and play hooky to send
the message, to show our relief, that the torch is passed.
BRAND NEW DAY, Holiday, 2009. PASS IT ON!!!!
GKB
Planetary Resident

[JackBeck]

11. I've been supporting a Clark VP run for quite some time.

Edwards makes it more tasty. Gore would be a 5-star meal.

[MalloyLiberal]

13. I am beginning to love Clark. Edwards, please ask him.

Clark, please accept. That would be the PERFECT way for you to be President!

[JackBeck]

15. Having Clark on any ticket

negates the meme that Democrats are weak on national security and the military.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

16. Exactly nt

[Clark2008]

20. Yes, it does.

So make him president.

Edwards ain't ready.

Hell, he ain't ready to accept his Senate record.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

12. Edwards, as president, would be extremely popular.

He reaches out to the ordinary people, the working man, the poor, the helpless.

[Clark2008]

21. But men don't like him.

Can't y'all see that?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

22. Men don't like him, or you don't like him? nt

[Clark2008]

24. I'm not a man.

But, my husband doesn't like him. He's a Yankee liberal and still calls him a "poof."

But, no... Southern and mid-Western men don't like him much. They find him too, well, "pretty."

I mean, white men, of course. You know, the people who actually vote. I'm sorry to say that, though they're in the minority in a lot of places, white men still go and vote more often than white women, black men or women or any other minority.

[last_texas_dem]

33. Do you have any non-anecdotal evidence to back up your contention

that Edwards does any worse with Southern and mid-Western men than any of the other candidates?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

26. Ok, what makes you say men don't like him? Which men don't like him? nt

[Clark2008]

29. Promise you won't think this is my opinion?

Anyway, here goes: Men think he's, well, "pretty," "gay," a "poof," as my hubby says. What's funny is that my hubby isn't anti-gay. He has gay friends and fully supports gay rights, including marital rights. It's just an expression he uses to mean "weak" (and, yes, he knows that's wrong.) I've fussed at him, yet that's his "gut" reaction. Red-blooded, American male gut reaction.

My hubby is a New England liberal - born in South Africa, raised in Boston, Brooklyn and Baltimore before coming down South to my fair city. His parents are both very liberal. On some issues, he's more liberal than me.

However, when he sees Edwards, he sees "weak," "ineffectual," and "not appealing." Now, he doesn't like him for very valid reasons, but those were his first reactions - and those would be the first reactions of many white males in the South and mid-West.

What I'm saying is that if my own husband, who's very liberal, but understands Southern and mid-Western "white malery" has problems with Edwards, don't you think the swing-vote Bubbas will?

[last_texas_dem]

34. I'm a white male who has always lived in the south

and I like Edwards, and he seems to be the most-liked candidate among the southern white males that I know. That's just my particular experience; I know yours differs. However, I would be interested in seeing something besides anecdotes to back up your claims that Edwards would not do well with southern white males, as I have seen you make this claim several times on this board.

[FrenchieCat]

36. Maybe the stats from the 2004 election would give us a clue......

as to whether Edwards made a difference in the south as veep for Kerry in terms of the southern white men vote?

[last_texas_dem]

37. Maybe

if there were exit polls that asked what effect VP John Edwards had on their vote for President, and if these statistics were separated by demographic group with white males being taken into consideration. Otherwise, 2004 election statistics would reveal very little.

[FrenchieCat]

38. Or, the fact that Kerry-Edwards didn't win any southern states would be

at least a "hint". In fact, Edwards didn't even win the southern states during the primaries other than South Carolina. That should also tell us something! :shrug:

[last_texas_dem]

39. People vote for President, not Vice President

I'd be interested in seeing any non-anecdotal information that proves otherwise.

Also, if Edwards's lack of success in southern primary states indicates his lack of popularity among southern white males, wouldn't that imply that Kerry's near-sweep of the southern primaries implies his popularity with them?

[draft_mario_cuomo]

43. Great point. We know how Kerry did in the South in the GE

[draft_mario_cuomo]

42. You can't have it both ways on 2004 primary wins

You are claiming the fact that Edwards won "only" 2* southern primaries (he was the only candidate to win multiple primaries other than Kerry) shows that he can't win in the South. Logically, since Clark won 0 southern primaries, that must mean Clark is an even weaker GE candidate in the South. Surely you don't hold that view...

*He won North Carolina as well

[Adelante]

55. North Carolina was hardly even a primary

9000 people voted for Edwards in the NC caucus out of millions of eligible voters. Probably 9000 people would vote for you in the state where you live, too. This was a beauty contest for Edwards's campaign for vice president, created just for him. Now, the South Carolina was a genuine primary and he truly won.

[BlueStater]

61. Sorry but your lame contempt doesn't correlate into facts

My God. "Poof"? That's your evidence that men don't like him?

Real mature of your husband, by the way. :eyes:

I'm a male and I like Edwards just fine.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

65. Ok, thank you. Now here's a very important question (lol)....

You explained to me in detail why you believe that men don't like him (a poof, gay, etc.) My question is, what specifically is it that men don't like in him?

For example

If they compare him to someone gay, I want to know WHAT they see gay in him.

If they see him as a poof, I want to know what in him they see as being poofy.

If they see him as being pretty, I want to know what in him they see as pretty. (For example, Clinton was pretty, JFK was pretty, lots of men are pretty in the Edwards sort of way).

You gave more examples that men don't like him. Now please explain to me why.

Thanks, and I appreciate this conversation. I want to know what's going on in people's heads in this election, as it is all-miportant.

Second question, I agree that people's opinions do count. In fact, people's opinions are everything in an election. How do you feel about the fact that Senator Clinton has been trashed by right wingers (and of course, their best friends, the media) throughout her entire political career, with epithets such as lesbian, murderer, fatty, etc. and etc. Do you feel that this albatross of being trashed every year of her life will serve as a massive achilles' heel that will affect the outcome of all this?

[Forkboy]

40. Funny,I like him.Two of my male friends like him.My father likes him.

You should ask your husband why his use of "poof" and "gay" shouldn't be considered homophobic.If he uses terms like that willingly knowing what they mean then sorry, he isn't very liberal.You have no clue what the first reactions of other men will be just because you know one man who does feel that way.

[surfermaw]

66. My husband like Edwards

Most people in Carolina think a lawyer is surely the devil, however I think Edwards is running ahead in the state.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

17. Edwards/Clark=landslide

:bounce:

[Clark2008]

18. It will NEVER happen.

Clark/Edwards would be better rounded, but that wouldn't happen either.

Malloy doesn't know much, does he?

[draft_mario_cuomo]

23. Why? Because Clark and Edwards netroots fans hate the other guy? nt

[Clark2008]

25. I suggest you Google "Wes Clark Jr. and John Edwards"

It has nothing to do with my feelings.

I disliked Edwards long before I even knew Wes Clark would run in 2004. I have family in North Carolina. Democratic family, who were SORELY disappointed in Edwards.

BTW, a note on the picture below. My son is half Palestinian. My daughter is half Jewish. The picture below is a symbol of peace. I don't like Edwards, but I, peacefully respect your vote and opinion. Please don't take what I say personally. It's based on what I know from observation. Right now I don't have a candidate, so I really have an open mind about what I hear around me.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

27. I am just curious. I wasn't here in 2003-04 but I notice the intense hostility between the two camps

Clark isn't running but when I joined DU I immediately noticed that virtually every Clarkie here is anti-Edwards. As for as JE supporters, they don't exactly love Clark either, although that is not as immediately evident since Clark does not come up as often here since he is not running at this point. What did Clark Jr. say?

Great story about your (cute) kids! :toast: I am not being hostile you. I am just curious about this whole Clarkie/Edwards supporter war. Most of it seems to be a product of things that happened three or four years ago. Isn't it time to move on?

[Clark2008]

28. Actually, I think it has to do more with the way people feel

about certain issues than the "camps," themselves.

Most "Clarkies" are, rightly so, a bit smug because their guy was right from the get-go while Edwards not only vote for, but cheerleaded the war.

My dislike of Edwards came before. It's a long story - in a nutshell, he pretty much dissed the pretty substantial Muslim community in the Research Triangle after 9/11 and my former brother-in-law told me about all this long before Edwards ran for president. It's much more involved than that, but that's the short version.

And, I didn't think you were being hostile. I just meant that my opinion is peaceful, not adversarial. I'm half Catholic and half Southern Baptist myself. My kids are MusCathBaptist (son from my first hubby) and JewCathBatpist (daughter from current, and final, hubby). Think they'll grow up to respect varying religions? :)

[draft_mario_cuomo]

30. Perhaps

However, that does not explain why they single a candidate out. There must have been a lot of daily warfare at DU between the two camps, like there is between the Obama and HRC camps right now.

What did he do? I would like to know. What I do know is when one NC Republican made a bigoted remark in 2003 about potentially putting Muslims in concentration camps Edwards was the only presidential candidate who spoke out against it. Similarly, Edwards was the only one to denounce the anti-Asian racist shock jock in NY this year.

I see--and yes, I have a hunch they will be very tolerant. :)

[MrSlayer]

31. Never happen.

Clark would have to be the top of that combo. Besides, they don't like each other.

[incapsulated]

35. Won't happen

Not only don't they like each other much, there is a reason, from the last campaign and it wasn't pretty.

And Clark isn't going to be propping anyone up for experience, he is already on record saying he hates that crap, that is what we got with Bush, etc.

Finally, there is no way Clark is going to support someone with such limited foreign policy experience, it is too important to him.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

44. What happened last time?

Shelton or is there more?

[chimpymustgo]

51. Edwards kicked Clark's butt and gotten chosen VEEP. Clark supporters never forgave him.

Man, it was ugly. Vicous. It started when Clark jump in the race ON THE DAY EDWARDS HAD PLANNED HIS OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT. Very unclassy. But Clark's game plan hinged in knocking out Edwards. Didn't work. And Clark fatally miscalculated by skipping Iowa - where Edwards worked like crazy...wound up getting ENDORSED by the Des Moines Register...and came in second to Kerry.

Clark barely eked out better finishes in NH and Oklahoma over Edwards - where Clark had staked his entire electoral claim. Clark has to fold. It was dismaying that Clark supporters took the loss so personally against Edwards.

Then came the VEEP wars - I have never seen such vitriol in my life. Just nasty shit. Clark supporters couldn't believe Edwards would have the AUDACITY to be chosen over their chosen one.

Clark is a great guy. Just not a great political candidate. I wish his supporters would not scapegoat John Edwards for it. Edwards beat him fair and square. We're all on the same team, remember?

[Adelante]

53. Not all Clarkies even wanted him to be VP

Including me. Do a search if you don't believe me. My reasons for being against John Edwards as president have nothing to do with Wes Clark. But if it somehow means something to you to insist, carry on with this bullshit idea for another four years. Clark fatally miscalculated by skipping Iowa; Edwards worked like crazy and had an impressive success in Iowa. That is what is true. But Clark's game plan never was about Edwards. It was about Dean. That's who everybody thought would win Iowa. It was Kerry's winning in Iowa that changed the ground for everyone. Edwards beat Clark fair and square at what? I never understand what that means. Kerry won. Clark lost. Edwards lost. Everybody lost but Kerry.

[chimpymustgo]

54. WesDem, I'll take and respect your word that you didn't want Wes to be VP.

But you cannot ignore the very real vitriol most Clark supporters spewed towards Edwards during the VEEP selection. Remember the flooded Internet polls? Some were quite DESPERATE for Clark to be picked.

I will never forget the vicious personal attacks from some. I'll never forget their names, either.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

68. Clark's main focus, his rationale was to be the anti-Dean but he fought Edwards...

...to be the "southern candidate." Dean was his first target, then Edwards since if he could knock out Edwards he would, in theory, be in great position to sweep the South.

Perhaps you do not like JE because of Clark but let's face it: 80-90% of Clarkies here do not like Edwards. That is no fluke. To be fair, JE supporters don't exactly love Clark either.

[incapsulated]

60. lol, Not

I NEVER wanted Clark as VP. I said so repeatedly.

I don't like Edwards but it has nothing to do with that, at all.

The not pretty thing that happened had to do with one of the people endorsing Edwards and making horrible smears against Clark, if some of you remember. Which he was later force to admit was lies.

Another thing, Clarkies don't like Edwards for a lot of reasons, one of them being that foreign policy experience, experience in general, is very important to them.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

69. Clarkies at DU seem to be lining up behind Obama

So it can't be experience that explains their dislike for Edwards since they are backing the most inexperienced candidate in decades.

As to Shelton, I did not follow that closely so I could be wrong, but that seems to be overhyped. Shelton was giving a speech at a college. Someone asked him about Clark during the Q & A session after the speech. He paused, took a drink of water and said he wished it were vodka. He did not rub his hands with glee at the chance to attack a former subordinate. He then made the now infamous statement. Did he have a script from the JE campaign that he was simply eagerly waiting for an opportunity to use? I doubt it... Something fishy did happen with Clark's early dismissal as NATO commander (Clinton was reportedly furious over it but signed off on it anyway). Does that mean it was because of what Shelton alleges? Probably not--there is no evidence that has been shown to support Shelton's contention. However, Shelton was the Joint Chief's chairman at the time Clark was dismissed. Perhaps Shelton had a hand in it? Perhaps Shelton simply did not like Clark for personal reasons? Franks made a similar statement as well at the time. Maybe Clark was too headstrong and not popular with his fellow high-ranking generals? Who knows? I think the assumption that it was part of an evil plot by the Edwards campaign is a stretch--and certainly does not warrant eternal hatred for Edwards.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

67. lame move by Clark

I did not know Clark decided to enter the race on the same day Edwards had planned to. That was lame. I agree with you. Clark killed himself by not competing in Iowa. While Clark was mainly the anti-Dean, I agree he and Edwards fought each other for the mantle of the "southern candidate". The VP thing is odd. There are always multiple people angling for the VP spot.

All this happened in 2003-2004. I don't understand why people cannot move on. In the end both lost, right? So none of it mattered. Thanks for sharing that background. :hi:

[GreenTea]

45. Mike made a great call...Edwards/Clark would be excellent!

[calteacherguy]

46. Everybody wants Clark to carry the ticket for them.

What does that tell you? Think about it.

[MalloyLiberal]

47. That he has forces, that won't let him be President.

Probably not running because he's good buddies with the Clintons. And we're desperate to have him being a leader.

[Apollo11]

49. If Gore refuses to run, why not CLARK--OBAMA?

The Democratic nominee for President should be someone with the experience and qualifications to be President and Commander-in-Chief from day one. Right now I think either Al Gore or Wes Clark would be better than any of the candidates who are already running.

I believe that Wes Clark is seriously considering entering the race sometime in the coming weeks. His book "A TIME TO LEAD" will be out on September 4th.

Right now it looks unlikely that Al Gore will enter the race, but you never know. It's not too late for him to change his mind and jump in.

The VP candidate should be someone who is ready to chair the Senate from day one. Also someone who is young enough that they could be President from 2017 thru January 2025. Right now I would have to say Barack Obama, even if his supporters say he is ready to be President now.

[MalloyLiberal]

52. Clark doesn't have the money

That's why VP would be great, he could have money.
72 isn't too horrible to be president in 2016.
If Gravel is running, I mena. andnot everyone who is 80 whatever Gravel is, is a loon.

[Apollo11]

58. Surely a strong candidate can raise money

I mean - that's what Obama has done.

I'm sure there are many people who would donate to Clark.

He did it before. I think he won a couple of states in the 2004 primaries.

As for the age thing - I am not so open-minded as you are.

I think people want a President who can project energy and dynamism.

Any candidate should be ready to serve for a full 8 years.

I don't think either Clark or Gore can wait until 2016.

Personally - I don't think people over 70 should be doing full-time jobs.

It's unfortunate if they cannot afford to enjoy being "retired".

My parents are both 65 - enjoying NOT working. :-)

[avrdream]

50. In my very humble opinion,

Clark would be a great vice-president for ANY of the candidates. In other words, I think he could easily step into the role of president if anything happened. I support Hillary but Wes Clark has the experience, maturity, and wisdom to lead our country if it came down to it.

[leez34]

56. -

Is it wrong of me to be a HUGE Edwards supporter, but also love Wes Clark? I think Edwards/Clark would be unequivocally awesome.

[Apollo11]

59. Not wrong

But I don't think Clark would see Edwards as the "senior partner".

[ulysses]

63. Mike's right.

I could get behind that, no problemo.

[smalll]

64. Interesting. I'm partial to Biden/Oprah

as my "won't-win/not-running" ticket. But that's just me. :shrug:

[Michigander4Dean]

70. Anything without O-fucking-bama.