If Senator Obama were white, do you think he would have the same level of support?

[Freddie Stubbs]

Again, nothing personal against Senator Obama, I just think it's a thought-provoking question.

[peace13]

1. Call me stupid but I don't really see Obama as a black man.

He is pretty white to me. On a side note, Hillary referring to herself as a girl last night makes me feel sick inside. Every American woman should stand up and take notice. I do not expect to be go back to girl status when she is selected. Peace, Kim

[Merlot]

4. I couldn't believe she said that

Now will it be ok to call women girls, or can only women do it?

[peace13]

10. One small step for Hillary

one giant leap backward for women around the globe.

[Merlot]

12. Just when I was thinking maybe I could vote for her if she got the nom...

She pulls the "girl" card.

ughhhhh. Can you imagine any male candidate saying "I'm your boy?"

[jobycom]

8. That statement is a bit awkward, to me.

No matter how you meant it, it strikes me as either implying that Obama isn't black, or that he is somehow more virtuous because he doesn't seem black. Either one implies a bit of inferiority. Not how you meant it, I'm sure, but it just grated the wrong way on me.

I didn't hear Clinton's comment last night. I remember her in 92 saying she wasn't the stay at home and bake cookies kind of wife, standing by her man. Her feminism is clear enough to me that I can overlook an awkward statement now and then. Just as I overlook the awkwardness of yours and accept that you did not mean to imply anything that your statement sort of implies. :)

[peace13]

13. Her statement ended with ...

then I'm the 'girl' for you, in the form of a proclamation. Not a subtle mis-speak. As far as my Obama comment goes, it was not meant as a slam to him. My take is he appears to be a member of the club, the same as Hillary and Edwards. The media has given them all equal standing. Not as humans fighting for the good of America but rather, suitable for the drama that will be carried out during campaign '08. Sorry to have offended you. Peace, Kim

edited to add Clinton's quote.
"For 15 years I have stood up against the right-wing machine, and I've come out stronger," she said. "So if you want a winner who knows how to take them on, I'm your girl."

[jobycom]

18. I understood your Obama comments

I just thought they were awkwardly worded. Ironically, in the same way Clinton's comments were meant well, but offended you. :)

I agree with you, after seeing how she used it. She should drop that phrase. It was obviously a strategy to make her seem more folksy, therefore less threatening to a certain crowd who is suspicious of women in power. She loses more than she gains with that phrase, though. I trust her intentions, but you are right, bad wording.

[zulchzulu]

11. I look beyond skin color too

Maybe it's just me, but if someone is inspiring and has a great way about them, I don't look at their skin color as anything more than what color their shoes are.

Is Tiger Woods black? Is Bill Cosby black? I guess.

[Dawgs]

24. Only a white person would say someone doesn't seem black.

Why because he speaks well?

It's like Obama said in an earlier debate, 'I sure feel black when I'm trying to catch a cab in New York'(paraphrasing).

[theoldman]

2. I don't see him as either black or white.

Most blacks in the US have some white blood in them so the distinction fades.

[jobycom]

3. If he were white, he'd be a completely different person, so the question is unanswerable.

If he were white, he would have a completely different set of experiences. His character would have been constructed differently. He would not be who he is. So I can't say whether he'd be as popular if he was white. He couldn't be white.

If you're asking if another senator with his intellect, charm, communication skills, ideology, and lack of experience would get as much attention as Obama, I can say with all certainty that maybe he would. Edwards didn't have much more when he began running for president, and his support in 04 was around the same percentage level as Obama's. The media didn't talk about him as much. But the media talks about Obama not because he's black, but because he has the potential to be the first black man to become president. He's the first with such widespread appeal. I loved Jesse Jackson (still do), and voted for him in 88, but I never believed he would be elected. Too much racism. Obama has a reasonable shot at it, and if he fails, it will be because of his inexperience and not his race. That makes him not only a first, but a symbol of changing times. That makes him a story. In that way, he's more talked about because he's black.

But I don't think his popularity is because of his race. It's because of the whole package. Race is clearly a part of it, but it always is. I mean, in 88, Dukakis won the nomination because he was white. Jackson was a much more impressive candidate, but America wouldn't accept a black president then. Race is always a part of a candidate. The great stride towards the American ideal of an equal society, though, is that now race isn't the only part of a candidate that matters.

[beaconess]

5. If John Edwards were black, would he be where he is now?

[Demit]

6. I think he would get less coverage & be granted less automatic credibility.

I think our wishful thinking has gotten ahead of things, by a mile. But I think the rock-star-response is ebbing, and we have a year left to consider soberly whether it is his time yet to run the whole enchilada.

[beaconess]

7. If Chris Dodd were black, would he have a platform from which to launch a presidential campaign?

[smalll]

28. If Chris Dodd were black, would Bianca Jagger have slept with him?

Or alternately, perhaps she'd STILL be boinking the senior Senator from Connecticut? Man these hypotheticals are fun.

[beaconess]

34. I Bianca Jagger were black, would Mick Jagger have married her?

Hey, this IS fun!

[Bitwit1234]

9. When Obama first started I was so impressed with him.

Then he announced so darn early for president I saw how desperate he was to be president. And now the more he twists and twists his statements, and re-says them and starting the bashing of Hillary. (Of course she started back) I am disgusted. I thought he was above petty politics. I thought he would be a shinning star. But he has his hands dirty with politics already. Think of what he would be as a president.

[ripple]

14. Actually, Hillary started with the bashing

The Geffen incident started it. More recently, she attacked him as naive when he indicated that he would meet with foreign leaders that are not our allies, and then attacked him again when he indicated that he would go after al qaeda in Afghanistan if Musharraf will not- same position as her own, BTW.

In each of these incidents, Obama has bitten back when attacked, something any self-respecting candidate for president should do, lest they allow themselves to be swiftboated.

I honestly don't understand the whole *victimization of Hillary* mentality. :shrug:

[Meldread]

15. He would have the same level of support.

However, he has benefited in standing out because he is black. It's worked in his favor, I believe, and he should continue using it to work in his favor.

Hillary came off as border-line racist during the debates by trying to "go black" as it were. The whole "I'm yer girl!" and "I'm yer sista!" just made her look silly. It made her look like she was playing into the whole racist "Obama isn't black enough!"

[Phoonzang]

16. I'm not sure how to answer that question.

On one hand, I don't think he'd stand out from the crowd if he was white, therefore not generating as much publicity and excitement. On the other, I don't think he would have been attacked nearly as much by the media and by the other candidates. There wouldn't be the huge dogpile on Obama movement that there is now. But then again, how much of the dogpile on Obama movment is motivated by his popularity and how much is motivated by subtle and not so subtle racism.

[frazzled]

17. Yet another racist, offensive thread

I'm getting pretty shocked and depressed. Why don't you just start a thread about how your kid could have gotten into Princeton if he'd been black. It sounds like Free Republic around here these days.

[beaconess]

19. Why aren't such "thought-provoking questions" are ever asked about white candidates?

[Freddie Stubbs]

20. They are:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3435298

[beaconess]

21. Check that: Why aren't such questions asked of WHITE MALE candidates!

The question about Hillary Clinton in the thread you cite is just as offensive as the one asked about Obama here.

[calteacherguy]

27. It's only offensive if you chose to take offense.

The questions are valid. I do not believe in denying the reality in which we live based on anyone's definition of political correctness...or alleged sensitivities.

[Major Hogwash]

29. And I don't believe what you just said!

Racism is a reality in this country.

And DENYING it is living in a FANTASY!

[calteacherguy]

31. Yes, racism is a reality...that's WHAT I WAS SAYING!

Please see post #25.

[beaconess]

33. Sorry, but that's a bullshit argument - It's offensive because it's offensive.

And wringing ones hands about "political correctness" is one of the last refuges of those who believe that they have a perfect right to say whatever they choose, regardless whom they offend (and accuse those who DO take offense of being too damned sensitive). But interestingly, those same people are the first to take offense when anyone has the temerity to suggest that they were out of line.

[calteacherguy]

35. "I'm offended" is the last refuge of those who would curtail free speech and discussion.

On the left, it's "I'm offended"

On the right it's called censorship.

Get over it!

Oh...and please see post #25.

[illinoisprogressive]

22. I put same level simply because his support comes from his charisma and intellect. not race

[polichick]

23. Only if he still had a great smile..

...and looked just as good in a bathing suit! :P

[calteacherguy]

25. I voted no, and that does not demean Obama's accomplishments in any way.

Although we would like race and gender not to be a factor in our society, we do not yet live in such a world. On the Democratic side, it is a reasonable hypothesis to assume that among a progressive electorate, candidates who are not of the traditionally white male variety and are perceived as having some potential to win the general election would draw some of their support from that fact. How much support is impossible to measure, because there are too many variables in the human condition.

This fact (or if you wish, hypothesis) in no way demeans the accomplishments and character of any candidate running, it simply speaks to reality. If one holds, as most progressives do, that affirmative action is of worth, then taking race or gender into consideration must be considered a valid progressive position. This does not mean voting for a candidate because of their race or gender, it simply means that it is a valid progressive position to take such factors into account. Whether such factors are determinate should depend on the character of the candidate, not their race or gender.

Obviously, on the Democratic side, there have been minority candidates who have run before and done poorly. This speaks the the fact the the majority of Obama's support is based on his character and perceived ability to defeat the Republicans in the general election, not his race.

[Blue-Jay]

26. If your aunt had balls, would you call her Uncle Gertie?

ridiculous and offensive.

[Colobo]

30. If Sen. Obama was white, he wouldn't be Sen. Obama in the first place.

[ecstatic]

32. He'd be the frontrunner

Good speeches, good message, clean cut image (assuming he was physically attractive in his hypothetical white body), AND was AGAINST the war from the jump. He'd be the frontrunner, hands down.

[Hippo_Tron]

36. Absolutely not, but it's not the only factor

I first heard of Obama on DU when he was being lauded as the anti-war progressive in his primary race. I read quite a bit about him before finding out he was black (when I went to his website and saw his picture). After he won the primary, I later found out that he'd be giving the keynote at the Democratic National Convention. I didn't think much of it and unfortunately I didn't see the speech when he gave it because I was out of town and without access to a TV.

When I came back in town my family and friends were all talking about how they were so impressed with him and that he could be the first black President.

Kerry opened a door for Obama by giving him that speaking opportunity and Obama seized that opportunity for all that it was worth.