I don't care what you think of Hillary, what that jerk just said on Tweety should outrage all of us.

[Skip Intro]

Tweety had the guy from VoteVets.com and some asshole - something patterson. This patterson guy called Hillary "un-American" and said she basically hated the troops as was a terrible person for this.

Un-effing-American.

Now, there's been some similar stuff hurled at Hillary and her DU supporters (thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3430800 "> here ), but this guy was just on national tv calling Hillary un American. It was like the swiftboat liars crap all over again.


I would hope that all of us (with a couple of known exceptions) here, regardless of which candidate you back, would say that is just over the line.


On the plus side, if they're throwing this kind of slime this early, they must be desperate.

[wndycty]

1. I got your back on that!

:kick:

[saracat]

2. They call ALL our candidates unamerican.Whats new?

[MethuenProgressive]

9. Not votevets, this is new for them

edit: I've been corrected it wasn't the votevets spokesman - thankfully!

[Skip Intro]

16. the guy from votevets didn't say that, Buzz Patterson did. n/t

[MethuenProgressive]

19. Thanks very much for correcting me! I read the OP too fast :O)

Reading too fast and typing too quickly and hitting "post message" without thinking -
a DU tradition!

Thanks for setting me straight regarding who said what, I really appreciate it.

[TwilightGardener]

3. I'm done defending her.

[pennylane100]

4. While I am not a Hillary fan

I think we all need to speak up against this type of propaganda. Its like swift boating all over again.

[eridani]

41. Exactly.

They will do this shit to any of our candidates, and we need to nip it in the bud right now.

[Cameron27]

5. Buzz Patterson

Total creep who HATES liberals. I'm glad Jon Solz threw everything back in his face.

[rodeodance]

8. Good to hear that Jon tossed it back!

[rucky]

51. He just wrote a book and suggested Waxman be tried for treason. n/t

[MethuenProgressive]

6. "If George Bush won't end this war, I will." - Hillary Clinton

Yeah... that's really an "un-American" staement from a "troop-hater"...

[bvar22]

50. Hillary has reassured the MIC/AIPAC that she will NOT end the War/Occupation.

"In the audio report, Koppel points out that in a recent debate Senator Hillary Clinton said that her first priority if elected would be to "bring our troops home." She did not say ALL our troops, Koppel points out, and she does not mean ALL our troops. She told the New York Times three months ago that some forces would have to remain. And Koppel adds that he spoke with someone from the Pentagon who briefs Clinton, and that she had told this person that if she is elected and reelected, she expects to have troops in Iraq at the end of her second term. Koppel notes that that's 10 years away."

"Redeploying" some troops at some future time when conditions permit is a PRO-WAR position.

[sandnsea]

7. Hey, she's got 15 years fighting the right, she's your girl

Maybe she'll show me that she's willing to go after somebody besides a Democrat for a change. We shall see.

[IndianaGreen]

24. I'll like to know in what universe has Hillary fought the rightwing.

She enabled Bush's crimes with the same zeal and enthusiasm as Joe Lieberman.

Their "girl" can take care of herself.

[pnwmom]

25. HRC is no Joe Lieberman.

Her record is much more progressive than this is, and she's been supportive of efforts to get out of Iraq since at least 2005 -- whereas he wants us to stay there for several more years.

[IndianaGreen]

27. Like Joe, Hillary supports war against Iran, with nukes if necessary

she's been supportive of efforts to get out of Iraq since at least 2005

Is that why she spoke and voted against John Kerry's Iraq troop withdrawal resolution in 2006? And also opposed Kerry's filibuster of Alito?

[pnwmom]

33. Once again, a Green is misstating a Democrat's record.

Gee, I wonder why.

:sarcasm:

[IndianaGreen]

36. My facts are correct, so rather than saying so you go off on that Green shit

For your information, that bearded guy that I have as an icon is Karl Marx. Marx is RED, just like me. My Green comes from my long time support for Greenpeace and environmental issues, particularly when it comes to workplace safety (asbestos).

[pnwmom]

38. HRC doesn't support going to war against Iran, as you know.

That is a gross distortion of her position.

As for her evolving position on Iraq, I posted from her letter in November 2005 above. Even then, her position was very much at variance with that of Joe Lieberman's. Now it is even more so.

If you really do care about environmental issues, then it would be crazy to sit back and watch the Republicans beat up on HRC, if she does turn out to be the nominee.

[karynnj]

53. Both things are true

She definately was against Kerry/Feingold - she spoke against it and voted against it. On the Alito filibuster, things are more ambiguous. She was against there being a filuster, but when Kerry and Kennedy tried to organize one - she voted with them. She was clearly not there from the beginning, but she did not vote against it. Unlike Kerry, who saw the issue being things like unitary President and the balance of powers - she saw it as about a woman's right to choose.

That said, Patterson's comments ared despicable and he likely would say them of any Democrat. Hillary Clinton is not the only one who has fought the RW for decades. John Kerry beats her by several decades and Ted Kennedy beats him.

[sandnsea]

28. If I didn't know you'd been here

I'd swear you just started paying attention to the Iraq war a week ago. Hillary has barely gotten on board for withdrawal this year, let alone back in 2005. She has had her finger in the wind higher and longer than anybody else on the war. It's been beyond horrible which is just one more reason I don't know why there's a Democrat who is supporting her.

"But the senator, along with about half of her Democratic colleagues, has carefully avoided specifying a date for finishing the job. "I don't think you should ever telegraph your intentions to the enemy so they can await you," she said in September 2005. She rejected a "date certain" again in June 2006, and again in January: "I'm not going to support a specific deadline."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/09/AR2007030902034_pf.html

[pnwmom]

34. Here is what she wrote in November 2005.

I don't care whether she or anyone else names a "date certain," in advance. I just care that the job gets done, ASAP.

The issue is whether her position is the same as Lieberman's. Any honest person will have to admit that it is not.

In November 2005, she wrote:
"I do not believe that we should allow this to be an open-ended commitment without limits or end. Nor do I believe that we can or should pull out of Iraq immediately. I believe we are at a critical point with the December 15th elections that should, if successful, allow us to start bringing home our troops in the coming year, while leaving behind a smaller contingent in safer areas with greater intelligence and quick strike capabilities. This will advance our interests, help fight terrorism and protect the interests of the Iraqi people.

SNIP

Based on the information that we have today, Congress never would have been asked to give the President authority to use force against Iraq. And if Congress had been asked, based on what we know now, we never would have agreed, given the lack of a long-term plan, paltry international support, the proven absence of weapons of mass destruction, and the reallocation of troops and resources that might have been used in Afghanistan to eliminate Bin Laden and al Qaeda, and fully uproot the Taliban.

Before I voted in 2002, the Administration publicly and privately assured me that they intended to use their authority to build international support in order to get the U.N. weapons inspectors back into Iraq, as articulated by the President in his Cincinnati speech on October 7th, 2002. As I said in my October 2002 floor statement, I took "the President at his word that he will try hard to pass a U.N. resolution and will seek to avoid war, if at all possible."

Instead, the Bush Administration short-circuited the U.N. inspectors - the last line of defense against the possibility that our intelligence was false. The Administration also abandoned securing a larger international coalition, alienating many of those who had joined us in Afghanistan.

SNIP

I have continually raised doubts about the President's claims, lack of planning and execution of the war, while standing firmly in support of our troops.

SNIP

It is time for the President to stop serving up platitudes and present us with a plan for finishing this war with success and honor – not a rigid timetable that terrorists can exploit, but a public plan for winning and concluding the war. And it is past time for the President, Vice President, or anyone else associated with them to stop impugning the patriotism of their critics.

SNIP

If these elections succeed, we should be able to start drawing down our troops, but we should also plan to continue to help secure the country and the region with a smaller footprint on an as-needed basis. I call on the President both for such a plan and for a full and honest accounting of the failures of intelligence – something we owe not only to those killed and wounded and their families, but to all Americans.

We have to continue the fight against terrorism and make sure we apply America's best values and effective strategies in making our world and country a better and safer place. We have to do what is right and smart in the war against terrorists and pursuit of democracy and security. That means repudiating torture which undermines America's values. That means reforming intelligence and its use by decision makers. That means rejecting the Administration's doctrine of preemptive war and their preference to going it alone rather than building real international support.

SNIP


Question: when have you ever heard Joe Lieberman criticize Bush's handling of the war in Iraq?

[sandnsea]

43. Yeah, the HANDLING of the war

As in - not winning it correctly.

Rather than acknowledging that going in was a tragic mistake, served no strategic purpose, had little to do with al qaeda, and we need to figure out how to get out with minimal damage to the region.

Where is that in those comments you just posted? Nowhere. Just as in 2003 she stated we needed to stay the course, what you posted is more of the same.

She says the war "advances our interests" and, we needed a plan for "finishing this war with success and honor – not a rigid timetable that terrorists can exploit, but a public plan for winning.."

Again, she supported the damn war. For HER, talk of Bush and inspections and "raising doubts" about the "execution of the war" - are all double talk so she can shift to either side of the issue, depending on events on the ground.

I just do not understand why people can't see it.

[Virginia Dare]

49. I guess you were asleep during the Clinton Presidency..n/t

[IndianaGreen]

10. Buzz Patterson is an idiot, but I won't defend Hillary no matter how I disagree with Patterson

Here is something for you to consider:

The antiwar Left will attack Hillary, and when the RW does their usual smear job on her, the Left won't lift a finger to defend her.

[pnwmom]

35. The antiwar Left is not monolithic. You don't speak for all of us.

I was out protesting on the street corners for months before the war began, as were many others. And at this point in time I'm leaning toward Obama. But if Hillary were to become the nominee, she can count on my full support, as well as of the other Democrats I know, regardless of whom we support in the primaries.

You're a Green, a member of the party that helped Nader take 97,000 Florida votes in 2000, falsely comparing Bush and Gore to "Tweedledee and Tweedledum," tossing the state to the Republican column.

And now, surprise, surprise, you don't support Hillary.

[IndianaGreen]

37. I don't live in Florida, and I am not a member of the Green Party, but thanks for your McCarthyism

Have you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Communist Party (or any other party)?

Clearly the sad posting of someone that lacks a command on the facts.

BTW, how do you feel about that "girl" Hillary keeping a residual force in Iraq in perpetuity, and her call for "all options on the table," including nuclear weapons, in regards to Iran? Or how about her support, and vote for, turning Iraq's oil industry to BIG OIL while forbidding Iraqis from having a say-so. Why did Hillary join the GOP smear of Kerry about that joke that wend awry (perhaps to score points against a rival)?

Were you a Kucinich supporter as I am, and as I was in '04, you would know all of that by now.

BTW, speaking of history, why did none of the Democratic Senators join the House Black Caucus in challenging the Florida Electors in 2000? Why was Kerry pressured to drop a legal challenge to Ohio in 2004?

Gore won Florida in 2000. Kerry won Ohio in 2004. The "Keep the Powder Dry" Democrats succeeded in keeping us in appeasement mode.

[pnwmom]

39. I don't know why none of the Democratic Senators challenged

the Florida electors, but I suspect that they followed Gore's lead. That was obviously a mistake.

As for the rest, HRC saying that "all options are on the table" doesn't bother me. Why vow to, in effect, unilaterally disarm when your opponent is building up its own nuke threat?

You don't think Pelosi was right in saying impeachment was "off the table," do you? (I don't -- even if I think there may be practical reasons for not actually pursuing it.)

By the same logic, HRC would have been wrong to say that anything was off the table with regard to Iran and their nuclear weapons development.

[Hippo_Tron]

46. Honestly you could've inserted any other candidate's name and Buzz would've said the same thing

It just so happened that Tweety had him on to discuss Hillary Clinton. He was really attacking all of the Democrats.

[IndianaGreen]

55. Fer sure, Buzz would have said that about any Dem, but this is the primary season

and I have a vested interest in seeing Hillary's Presidential ambitions derailed, and I don't care by whom.

BTW, I think Buzz Patterson is so shrilled and so over the top, that he makes himself look more irrational than Coultergeist (a hard act to beat in insanity).

Hillary's success has been in her tying herself to the Clinton record and in the promise that she will bring about "Happy Days are Here Again!" It is the Clinton record that also makes Hillary vulnerable and she will be attacked by both the Left and the Right.

[MalloyLiberal]

56. Votevets is a liberal organization.

[AtomicKitten]

11. that is flat-out unacceptable

The Democrats could steal the ball on this one by hammering home, Pavlov-style, what being an American really means, and a nod BTW to this administration for providing so much material (bastards).

I just posted this http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3437453&mesg_id=3437453 because my eyes have been irreparably singed watching Mike Huckabee. He doesn't believe in evolution. Oh, the pain.

[ruggerson]

30. Last few months here I'm not sure

if I believe in evolution either.

:P

[AtomicKitten]

32. * snort *

:rofl:

[msongs]

12. some people have said O'worse nt

[MethuenProgressive]

13. Odd, isn't it, that "pro-Clinton" Tweety would have this guy on?

"pro-Clinton" at least, according to most DUers after the last debate...

[AuntPatsy]

14. I agree with some of the other posters, what is new here? Its the republican head writers

use for attacking anything and everyone democratic, it is pretty pathetic when having to resort to such, I agree when are the msm going to stop these people from using such ignorance, I don't miss watching the news at all, it keeps my blood pressure down.

[fujiyama]

15. She doesn't have my vote in the primaries

but that kind of stuff is despicable - equivalent of the Swift Boat Liars.

[AndyTiedye]

17. They Are Just Trying This Out. They'll Be Running It 24x7 by October Next Year

They'll be bringing back the Swift Boaters and all their hangers-on and recycling all the crap they have been throwing at the Clintons all these years.

Right now, the Mighty Slime Machine is mostly going easy on Hillary, because they want her to win the Democratic nomination.
We just see isolated bits like this to test the water and prime the pumps a bit, and to make sure the stuff they sling at her really sticks when the time comes.

[MrSlayer]

18. Well we're all a bunch of terrorist loving, wussy, traitor defeatists to these assholes anyway.

Nothing new here.

[zulchzulu]

20. Senator Clinton is NOT Un-American ferchrissakes...

Whenever a Freepazoid Reptile Bushbot says anything about how anyone who doesn't suckle the idiocy in their poisoned synapses and grace the Cowardly Pretzel King Of Death, I assume they are:

1. Lacking a proper education and/or had a bad head wound as a child, hence not getting what is going on in the World around them

2. Bitter that they know deep down that many people are smarter than them and more successful

3. Simply ignorant about what an American really is and what our Founding Fathers went through in this very dangerously teetering Experiment

4. Drinkers of the Kool-Aid of college dropouts like Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity, who wouldn't know the truth about what is happening to our country if it bit them on their cowardly asses.

I'm not a fan of Senator Clinton's candidacy, but she is certainly as American as anyone else. The asswipe is what we call "out of ammo".

[Cameron27]

22. This guy was close to calling Soltz Un-American

it was a brutal argument and Hardball sucks for giving this fool airtime.

[illinoisprogressive]

21. standard right wing talk

[calteacherguy]

23. They are going to throw that kind of crap at all Democrats. It's their strategy. nt

[jenmito]

26. I think TWEETY'S a jerk for having nearly his whole show about Hillary as the presumptive nominee...

And I know he doesn't want her to win, so I'll tell you why I think he's doing it...he wants a subway series and he wants Giuliani to WIN. He constantly says America wants a hero, that the Repubs. are the "Daddy Party," and that when he (and everyone else in his opinion) closes his eyes, he has an image of Giuliani walking with his mask on, walking through the rubble and dust, in charge of things. :eyes:

That said, it's wrong for these RWers to call ANYONE un-American, but they always do it.

[Egnever]

29. Not the biggest hillary fan in the world

but this guy sounds like a freak. Mathews is worthless the more i watch him the more I think he should be taken off the air. I actually saw a commercial for him the other day where he said I hold politicians to account and dont just let them fire off their talking points and I almost fell out of my chair.

[OHdem10]

31. That Pattrson Guy had written a terrible book on Bill Clinton

Chris was scraping the bottom of the barrel when he had
that Guy on. He was there to scum the Clintons.

[DeepModem Mom]

40. He said a string of hateful stuff, which Tweety should have not allowed. K&R

[huskerlaw]

42. I'm not a Hillary fan

but calling her "un-American" is an obvious right-wing smear attempt. And it's ridiculous.

[cui bono]

44. Well at least he balances out Tweety calling her "majestic" and "brilliant"

I didn't see it as I can't stand Tweety any more, and though I loathe the thought of her winning our primary and think she works against the working class and for big business I most likely wouldn't call her unamerican.

But what does that really mean anyway?

[Hippo_Tron]

45. That was great television, Jon Soltz destroyed that asshole

That bit about "Yea you've been to Iraq... on the White House Green Zone Tour" was priceless.

And Buzz's attack was really an attack on all Democrats. You could've just replaced Hillary Clinton with any other candidate's name and he would've said all of the same things.

[creeksneakers2]

47. My Hardblogger submission

KOOK LIES ABOUT THE CLINTONS WHOLESALER BUZZ PATTERSON ALLOWED ON TV AS AN ANALYST!

Matthews actually let kook fringe author Colonel Robert "Buzz" Patterson on his show and used Patterson to analyze past,present and future activities of Hillary Clinton. Patterson repeated one of his kook yarns about the Clintons refusing to allow enlisted men to wear their uniforms in the White House because the Clintons hated the military so much. The Washington Post debunked that Patterson lie years ago. Patterson even changed the story between Hillary actually doing it and trying to do it.

One of the most publicized tales ever told by Patterson was about a supposed chance to kill Bin Laden that was lost because Bill Clinton was out playing golf and nobody knew where he was. According to Patterson, when Clinton was finally located, Clinton couldn't make up his mind about whether or not to take Bin Laden out. In Patterson's book he carefully describes a similar incident, never using the first person or attributing the story to anyone.

In this interview on the web with Judicial Watch, Patterson goes all out, and claims to have been an eyewitness and even involved in the chain of command.

Patterson couldn't have possibly seen such a thing. According to his own biography, Patterson quit working at the White House in May of 1998. The orders to kill Bin Laden weren't signed until August of 1998. There is no way Patterson could have been an eyewitness to an attempt to kill Bin Laden with a missile.

From the interview:

"We had actually located bin Laden and pinpointed his location very, very specifically. We had a Tomahawk missile strike planned to assassinate him, but we only had a two-hour window. President Clinton couldn’t be located. And then when we finally got him on the phone, he waffled until bin Laden got away and no strike was taken".

Fitton: What do you mean, you couldn’t locate the President? Where was he?

Patterson: He was playing golf.


I read the 9/11 report and couldn't find any mention at all of Patterson or this incident. That's probably because the 9/11 commission either knew up front that Patterson is a kook story peddler, or they found out after they interviewed him.

Patterson tells lots of other crazy stories too. I'd like to know how in the world Chris Matthews could use such a nut on his show. The 90s are over and cable news outlets aren't going to get away with boosting ratings by airing endless Clinton lies.

[Virginia Dare]

48. Fasten your seatbelts, it's going to be a bumpy swiftboat ride..

These assholes know no depth to their lies and smears, and up until now, they've been very effective. Hillary claims she's our girl, we'll see.

[otohara]

52. At Least The Other Guy Was Doing A Good Job

of drowning old Buzz out. Buzz off Buzz

[xxqqqzme]

54. this is what is lying in wait for the '08 election cycle.

The gates will be opened for all the swiftboaters once corporate media has anointed
Hillary the candidate and the propaganda flood will be too much to over take.