Pelosi leads Sheehan by 59 points

[ButterflyBlood]

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=0851e9bb-2529-4f98-a01f-8e98052b902c

Start crying Cindy. :nopity:

[jefferson_dem]

1. Good news.

Thanks for posting.

[KingFlorez]

2. She's delusional if she thought she even had a chance

[uppityperson]

4. Don't assume she is running to win.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1565719

Anyone can run, holding the Dem's feet to the fire is good. Making our Democratic representatives represent us and challenging them when they don't seems fine to me.

[superkia]

48. I agree 100%! Im glad shes doing it!

[proud2BlibKansan]

49. I agree

After the FISA vote, it is even more important to find true progressives to challenge current members of Congress.

[knight_of_the_star]

185. As I've said many times before

How is Cindy, excluding the war and impeachment, more of a true progressive than Nancy, who did in fact vote against the war, the funding, the FISA bill, and is a member of the progressive caucus as opposed to a woman who called the income tax unconstitutional (there's an amendment specifically authorizing it) and the Democrats the party of slavery (kind of a moot point since it was abolished in 1865)?

[Mike Daniels]

140. I hardly think anyone with a 59% lead is having their feet held anywhere

That gap will only get larger once Sheehan starts hitting the trail and answering questions on items other than the war.

I predict Sheehan doesn't clear 10% once you factor in the Republican candidate.

[question everything]

141. No, of course not. She needs her fix - headlines

After she has faced the world in Crawford, can she go back to the farm and be a regular person?

So first she leaves the "movement" slamming the door, saying she won't play any longer.

Then she realizes that no one is coming after her begging her to reconsider - at least not the ones that count - so she is back. Like Nader it is always about her.

You know, even if she did manage to win, she will resign immediately when she would realize that Congress does not evolve around her.

If she really wants to do something that matter, let her volunteer at a VA hospital, or at any hospital, go teach in the inner cities, volunteer at nursing homes.

There are so many places that need help. But, no, she needs to be in the headlines.

[roguevalley]

70. since when do you have to win to win? keeping issues front and

center can be victory. besides, its American to try. Go, Cindy.

[KarenS]

3. Sometimes people run for office,,,,

not to win, but to raise the level of debate.

[lligrd]

6. Exactly, At Least She Is Doing Something

I will never understand the apologists for these politicians, from either party, who are screwing America.

[CreekDog]

23. So, Cindy just has to do "something"

But when Pelosi does more than Cindy, it's not enough, because Pelosi has to do everything and it has to work.

Nice double standard there.

[Jed Dilligan]

131. Yes, Pelosi does have to do more than Cindy

Because she was elected and given a job. A candidate can do or not do anything she wants; she's her own boss. A politician is supposed to have a boss--us. We should be cracking the whip.

[Clintonista2]

37. It's her methods, not her stances, that make her unpopular

If she really wanted to help, she could of sought the Democratic nomination in a district with an unpopular repug. For Cindy, it's not about being constructive anymore, for Cindy it's all about being controversial, no matter how much that hurts her noble cause.

[Gman]

42. For Sheehan it's all about the continuing manic phase of her bipolar disorder

that we all have to put up with while she denies she has a problem and refuses to get help.

[proud2BlibKansan]

50. Does it make you feel like good to be so insulting?

Which progressive values did you have to ignore to post such horseshit?

[Gman]

52. Just saying what needs to be said

I feel sorry for her that she has gotten to this point. I'm sorry you think it's insulting. But it's a matter of Sheehan's health and everyone is exploiting her while she is in this manic phase and holding her up to be all these things. Sheehan's the one that at some point will crash into a depression just as low as the high she's on now. That will be very dangerous for her. But for now, she's being used for all people can squeeze out of her.

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. So when did you get your degree in psychiatry?

Cause unless you do have one, you have no business deciding what mental disorder anyone has.

And FYI, she is very healthy mentally. More so than those who diagnose mental illnesses on the internet. LOL

[puebloknot]

65. Great minds! :) nt

[puebloknot]

51. You're an M.D., right? Links to documenting evidence, please! nt

[Gman]

53. Educate yourself

on bipolar disorder.

[puebloknot]

63. Someone I love very much has bipolar disorder. There's no education...

... about the matter more compelling than dealing personally with such a sufferer.

Cindy? I don't think so!

Gman? Are you really?

[Gman]

67. And I also am very close to someone with bipolar

and I'm telling you Sheehan has it. She apparently has long cycles. The trigger that set off the manic phase was Casey's death. A very traumatic and stressful event can set off a manic phase.

Me? Sometimes I've wondered, but then I see real cases and no, I'm not. I'm just your garden variety psycho!

[puebloknot]

68. Remember when Dr. Frist took it upon himself to diagnose...

... Terry Schiavo from afar? And he *was* an M.D.

The Soviets made diagnoses in the way that you are doing -- for purposes of putting their political enemies in mental institutions to get them out of the way.

Cindy is just your "garden variety" grieving and outraged mother of a soldier who died in an illegal war, and has decided to put her excellent brain and her fantastic spirit to the wheel of justice. We need to clone her, politically.

Rave on!

[Gman]

94. Cindy Sheehan IS the enemy

she's now no better than the most vile RW republic. She's running and intends to beat a Democrat. That makes her the enemy.

[puebloknot]

107. Your exchanges are getting increasingly vile, so I am going to...

...exercise my right to block you. FYI, all those Dems who have been in the debates of late are "running and intend to beat a Democrat."

[saracat]

134. But Cindy is NOT a Democrat.She is trying to unseat a Democrat!

That is what makes her on the other side.She is trying to replace a Dem while not being a Dem.She is therfore, the enemy just like a Repug would be!

[puebloknot]

156. She is trying to replace a Dem who richly deserves to be replaced.

Looking beyond party loyalty, if Cindy Sheehan is, and behaves, more like a Dem than the Dem in office, she's hardly the *enemy*!

Disclaimer: I do not live in California, I am not campaigning for Cindy Sheehan. I am simply trying to cut into some of the "with us or against us" mentality that I find disturbing on this board.

I understand the implications of one or all bolting the Democratic Party. I understand what the party has stood for through time. And I understand that many, many good and loyal Democrats are weighing their options these days, no longer able to dumb themselves down and go along to get along because THEIR COUNTRY IS DYING BEFORE THEIR VERY EYES, AND THE DEMOCRATS ELECTED TO CHANGE COURSE ARE PLAYING POLITICS WITH THE *ENEMY*! Excuse me for raising my voice. It's only because I don't know whether I, and those I cherish, are going to have a country we can safely live in 'ere long, and time is running out.

Remember Jim Jeffords? He did a lot of good for We the Dems, and he was an Independent! He had the strength of character to choose what he saw as right for the country, and he left the party he'd long been a part of for higher ground. Please, oh please, give us some Democrats with that kind of vision! We used to be able to say that anyone with a D after their name had to be infinitely preferable to *any* Republican. That little advertising device has run its course. The scales are falling off the eyes of many people --Repubs and Dems alike -- and what we see clearly is that we must change or die as a country.

Both religion and politics have a way of killing off critical thought, it seems to me, because it's easier to cozy up to a point of view and feel safe and righteous than it is to take an honest look at what is going on, and face the fear and uncertainty inherent therein. Cindy Sheehan is making an attempt to see things clearly, flawed though she may be. With enemies like her, who needs friends?????

[saracat]

160. Cindy making an attempt to see things "clearly" ?Are you joking?

Is it seeing "clearly" to attack John Conyers? Is it making an "attempt to see "clearly" to lambast the entire Democratic Party? Have you read her ridiculous position on taxes?This is not "crtical thinking" This is self promotion to the max!

[puebloknot]

168. No, I am not joking.

Cindy, I believe, is criticizing the Dem leadership which is sitting on its hands while the country goes down the tubes.

Do not kill the messenger here, but have you made a study of the history of the Federal Reserve? Do you believe that the tax system in this country is fair and completely legal?

What is it you think Cindy Sheehan wants to gain by the "self-promotion" you speak of? Do you give her any credit for wanting to right an extreme wrong that has affected her and her family, and is affecting the whole country and the world? Do you think anyone ever attains to high office without doing some self-promotion?

You clearly don't like Cindy Sheehan. That's your privilege, but it would be good to refrain from assuming that her motives are less than honest because she has the temerity to indicate that Ms. Pelosi is scantily clad, metaphorically and politically speaking. I doubt seriously that all Cindy's critics would be any less abusive toward her if she had decided to challenge Pelosi from with the Democratic fold. They would still see her as an upstart who's challenging a well-entrenched Democratic icon.

My opinion, of course.

[knight_of_the_star]

189. Let's take some of this apart

"Do not kill the messenger here, but have you made a study of the history of the Federal Reserve? Do you believe that the tax system in this country is fair and completely legal?"

Actually our current tax system is in the Constitution, lookup the Sixteenth Amendment whose text reads as follows:

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

And Sheehan said income taxes are unconstitutional yet there you have it in black and white that they are in fact constitutional and here is the link to Cornell Law.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.amendmentxvi.html

"That's your privilege, but it would be good to refrain from assuming that her motives are less than honest because she has the temerity to indicate that Ms. Pelosi is scantily clad, metaphorically and politically speaking."

So the actions of conservative Democrats voting with the GOP is somehow Nancy's fault? I didn't know that as the Speaker of the House she had absolute despotic control over members of her party. If you're going to call Nancy a DINO you prove yourself ill-informed, as her voting record is easily comparable to Dennis Kuicinich and she is doing the best she can with a party that has never had any real discipline not to mention that our margin of majority is smaller than the number of Blue Dogs and DLC in Congress as well as that very few if any GOP cross party lines. And before you talk about the whole Impeachment off the table thing, just look what happened with FISA, something that should have been a slam dunk for us instead of a disaster then tell me with a straight face any impeachment vote would come out better thanks to the real DINOs in Congress.

[puebloknot]

190. One more time: Pelosi has the power to *not* allow bills to be presented.

And second-guessing a legal and moral procedure designed to hold accountable our governmental representatives by issuing a "psychic" verdict before any evidence is even presented is not "in the Constitution."

Re the 16th Amendment, according to many who have researched the matter, it was never ratified by all the states. I'm only alluding to an intriguing possibility here, not attempting to make a legal case. In practice, the IRS does what it wants to do, just as the Bush Administration does what it wants to do.

I haven't called Nancy Pelosi a DINO. I'm saying she is proving herself incredibly weak and ineffective as a Democrat. I can't agree that she's doing the best she can. I say that sadly because many people (not I) put a lot of faith in her in the beginning.

[knight_of_the_star]

193. So because she has such power means she should always use it?

"Re the 16th Amendment, according to many who have researched the matter, it was never ratified by all the states. I'm only alluding to an intriguing possibility here, not attempting to make a legal case. In practice, the IRS does what it wants to do, just as the Bush Administration does what it wants to do."

I guess you fell asleep in civics then because it does NOT say in the constitution that EVERY state has to ratify an amendment for it to fly and to my knowledge (based on me studying history RIGHT NOW at college level) the ONLY amendment that did something odd was the one to repeal prohibition and that one went to ratifying conventions as opposed to state legislatures due to the fact that a lot of the state legislatures at the time were controlled by pro-temperance candidates.

"And second-guessing a legal and moral procedure designed to hold accountable our governmental representatives by issuing a "psychic" verdict before any evidence is even presented is not "in the Constitution.""

It does not matter how much you cry, scream, and beg for impeachment, at the end of the day if we lack the votes to make it happen it does not matter how justified the action is. If you cannot indict a felon on criminal charges before a grand jury you make DAMN sure you can actually make the move before you convene the grand jury, and with how often the Blue Dogs fail the rest of the party on important issues I doubt we would have the votes until one of Conyers' hearings can get incontrovertible evidence of impeachable conduct AND that we can get enough of the GOP in the Senate to flip.

Then again, I guess the possibility that Pelosi saying impeachment is off the table is a smokescreen so that investigations can occur without being labeled as impeachment hearings per se must not have occurred to you, the best way to catch a crook is for them not to think you're really going to grab them until you have them. It took tax evasion to bring down Al Capone, I think for Bush and Co it will be a similar situation and I doubt the Feds said ANYTHING out in public about them investigating Capone's tax returns until they got the indictment.

"I haven't called Nancy Pelosi a DINO. I'm saying she is proving herself incredibly weak and ineffective as a Democrat."

So again it is HER fault that there are members of our party who like the opposition more than their own party? Sure she could block any bill that she or we don't like, but there you run the risk of having her replaced by the caucus with someone worse like Steny Hoyer. Good thing you aren't an elected official, doesn't seem that you have the patience or subtlety to handle the job if you go for the obvious stuff that would end up biting you in the ass in the long term.

[puebloknot]

195. I am not crying, screaming, or begging for impeachment. I am...

...exercising my legal right as an American citizen to demand (not plead) that my elected representatives in Congress do their Constitutional duty to remove criminal elements from our government.

I have to wonder what you've been smoking that has inspired your "smokescreen" theory. Quite frankly! :rofl:

Here's some information for your perusal. Please be advised that I am not engaging in advocacy of anything here. It's just that inquiring minds want to know; to wit:

http://www.thelawthatneverwas.com/new/theman.asp

The above example is not the only time in American history that someone has taken it on himself to be "The Decider." Thom Hartmann has written about the deceitful way that corporate personhood took birth; there was a "Decider" in that instance, too.

I, too, took a college-level civics class, did *not* fall asleep, and never heard a word about any of the above. Maybe the class was in reality a smokescreen to collect class fees and keep We the People from knowing what the f*ck our government is really all about. Think? :think:

[proud2BlibKansan]

82. Once again,

you have been a practicing psychiatrist for how long now? Or do you just play one on the internet? :rofl:

[tomp]

99. psych professional here, treated hundreds of bipolar persons.

you can't definitively diagnose from a distance. your opinion is virtually worthless. if you'd care to address the dsm diagnostic criteria, at length, like justin frank does in "bush on the couch", perhaps we could talk, but bald assertions do you a disservice.

[proud2BlibKansan]

81. Take your own advice.

:crazy:

[jazzjunkysue]

62. How many of your children died in Iraq? Just curious.

[Clintonista2]

71. Does that mean she can do no wrong?

It's very cowardly to hide behind that everytime Cindy does something controversial.

[jazzjunkysue]

83. But it's brave to sit at home and complain about someone on your

computer? After you lose a child and get yourself locked up a dozen times, you may be in a better position to try to knock her down.

[Yukari Yakumo]

86. And yet you persist to hide behind the dead.

What a shameless coward.

Oh, and many of the stunts she's pulled that got her locked up, especially recently, have hurt the cause rather than help them.

I can't help but believe that this ploy of hers will hurt the cause even more.

[Common Sense Party]

130. Point of order. She didn't "lose a child." Her ADULT son was

killed in action. He was an adult that could make his own decisions, and did--he decided to re-enlist.

That doesn't diminish or minimize in any way her grief, pain, sorrow or anger.

Casey was a man; he was no longer a child.

[othermeans]

132. For your edification

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
child /tʃaɪld/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural chil·dren.
1. a person between birth and full growth; a boy or girl: books for children.
2. a son or daughter: As in All my children are married.

I think this is the definition Cindy is using or perhaps you would like :My child was killed by the Bush administration.

[hang a left]

69. I am sure there are residency requirements. And if I remember

correctly she threatened this in 06 and was talked out of it.

[creeksneakers2]

74. And Cindy's love of being the center of controversy

Is going to end up turning the 9% she's got against her by election day.

[Tesha]

144. The members of the First DU Fighting Chair Force don't understand that. (NT)

[knight_of_the_star]

186. Getting pounded to a bloody pulp doesn't raise an issue for debate

All that does is make the person running look like an idiot.

[bluestateguy]

5. If she's lucky, she might come in second

nt

[CreekDog]

25. I can support a 2nd place showing for Sheehan

I mean a distant one, but 2nd nevertheless.

[Colobo]

7. Ha ha!

[Cameron27]

8. Not surprising,

thanks for posting.

[saltpoint]

9. I like citizens who exceed the standards of citizenship, and

Sheehan has done that. She's taken some strong hits from the far right in my town and nevertheless showed up and spoke very sturdily on her beliefs. Her detractors were rude and dismissive.

I think Nancy Pelosi will win this primary contest by at least the margin you cite in the survey, possibly more. I think she deserves to, as well. I've had the privilege of voting for her when she was my Congresswoman and would do so again, with emphasis.

[1620rock]

10. Cindy is doing everything she can to advance the cause, and yet

people here belittle her. Of course she won't win, but she is at least doing more than paying lip service to the cause.

[Cameron27]

11. Some of us think her strategy is wrong

and feel that she's polarizing a community that would otherwise fully support her if she went after the republicans.

[saltpoint]

14. I'm pro-Pelosi but also respect citizenship and especially the

high level Sheehan is showing.

I think Cindy has picked the wrong fight.

The voters in Pelosi's district will see no reason to dump their Congresswoman of many terms, and it seems a shame to waste good citizenship on a primary contest when the energy might have gone to other causes.

Many people in Pelosi'ss district are transplants from other states. The districts many of them fled to come to San Francisco are represented by right-wing Republicans. A very significant percentage of her constituents are very grateful to be represented by Nancy Pelosi. I know I was. Would still feel that way if I lived there now.

This is not an indictment against Sheehan's citizenship but an endorsement and reaffirmation of Pelosi's standing among her constituents.

[struggle4progress]

55. I think that's just about the right attitude: one can like Sheehan and yet think she's picked

wrong fight

[proud2BlibKansan]

84. I disagree with you but

I applaud your reasoned and non-insulting argument. Thank you.

[CreekDog]

27. But she's not running against someone who is paying lip service

She's running against Pelosi who is trying to round up the votes to end the war, but those only amount to a majority when troop funding is assured.

So, Pelosi doesn't have full support of her caucus to cut off funding for the troops as a way to end the war and she would need that support and a bunch of Republicans too.

But again, the Cindy Sheehan bumpersticker will not explain that, but Cindy will have to contend with the same reality if she gets elected.

[Pyrzqxgl]

58. She won't win but she might get enough votes to elect a Republican.

[Telly Savalas]

166. That's virtually impossible.

In 2006, the Republican got something like 14% of the vote in Pelosi's district. Even if Pelosi's votes were split up three ways between her, Sheehan, and a third non-GOP candidate, the Republican would still lose.

[saracat]

159. Cindy isn't running in the Primary.She isn't a Dem!

Cindy is running as an Independent in the general.She is like Lieberman!

[whopgood]

12. crying?

Why should she start crying? She should be proud that she has entered into the race, to raise the level of awareness to what many progressives TRULY feel. I think that is worth something right there.

[CreekDog]

15. she doesn't sound progressive to me

running against Pelosi, being anti-tax and calling Democrats the party of slavery and starter of wars.

Seems like that's what she's done in terms of trying to raise awareness.

[CreekDog]

13. Maybe Sheehan didn't run in the primary b/c she knew this

After all, if in a primary against Pelosi, this poll shows 78 to 7 among Democrats in favor of Pelosi over Sheehan. Perhaps her numbers would be higher if she was running as a Democrat. The thing is that she has so little support from Democrats that she cannot even get a respectable showing in the primary. Thus, she will be out of the race early and forced to endorse or be seen as a sore loser.

With an independent run, Sheehan has no milestones along the way and no clear expectation at the end. She just gets coverage until the election happens, coverage that would end sooner if she ran in a primary and got trounced.

[Skip Intro]

16. 24% of Repubs back Pelosi?

wow.

[CreekDog]

17. Republicans in SF run terrible candidates, non-candidates actually

So a sizable chunk vote for Democrats. Republicans tilted the election to Gavin Newsom and to Willie Brown in recent years.

Also, there is a tradition of liberal Republicans in the Bay Area and many of those people are voting for Democrats and have been for quite a while.

[saltpoint]

20. Very good read of Bay-Area politics. A whole slew of Democrats and

independents dominate the voter registration lists. What few conservative Republicans there were have been rounded up and institutionalized.

[Cameron27]

18. She scores highest with

Democratic voters 78%
Black voters 78%
Liberals 71%

[ButterflyBlood]

34. note the sample size

9% of 583

[OffWithTheirHeads]

19. Lets see, Cindy has been a candidate for less than a week

and you make it sound like she has self destructed already. Sounds like the kind of reporting I would expect from the likes of Bill O.

[Igel]

21. She has over a year to campaign.

Saying a product won't be profitable in a year because it has low sales in its first week is to misunderstand what the market data can possibly say. When a poll says that that a politician's numbers are low 15 months away from the election, it doesn't mean s/he can't or won't be elected. Things change. If they didn't, prophecy would be a fairly simple craft.

For all we know, Pelosi will do something hideously stupid in 12 months, or Sheehan something insanely brilliant, making the polls change significantly. Or vice-versa.

[CreekDog]

22. That's true, nobody even knows who Sheehan is yet

Especially in San Francisco

Uh huh. Go on now.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

24. Yeah, cause it's not like she's been on T.V. or anything... N/T

[smalll]

26. It's just name recognition!

Plus, it's too early, and Lieberman was ahead in the polls at this point, and everyone knows surveyusa is controlled by the DLC! :crazy:

[CreekDog]

28. Lieberman was ahead in the polls against Lamont

Less people had heard of Lamont at the start of his campaign than have heard of Cindy Sheehan.

Also, Lamont was a mainstream liberal who barely eeked out a win in the primary running against Lieberman no less.
Sheehan is not a liberal, though she is antiwar, and she is running against one of the most liberal members of the House in San Francisco. SF politics is the explanation for Sheehan's trouncing, not her lack of campaigning, when she's been on tv and in papers around here on this very subject a lot lately.

I'm willing to bet that most Pelosi supporters in the polls know who Sheehan is and know what her main issue is.

Are you arguing that SF Democrats don't know who Sheehan is and what her main political issue is?

C'mon, get real. She's a household name and she was a household name around her prior to becoming known nationwide because she's from Vacaville and got a lot of coverage in the local media before she went national.

[smalll]

29. I'm sorry - I don't disagree with you - I forgot the "sarcasm" tag! /nt

[CreekDog]

31. oops, sorry for the snark then ;)

[CreekDog]

30. It's not just name recognition, get real

Cindy Sheehan's antiwar actions are well known.

Plus, this is the 8th district of California, a portion of San Francisco. Sheehan and Sheehan's antiwar stance is better known in the 8th district than in most of the nation.

[Totally Committed]

32. You're missing the point, I think.

I don't think Cindy is running to win. I believe she is doing this to make a point, and perhaps force Pelosi to have to answer questions that might never be asked otherwise.

That's how I read it anyway.

TC

[CreekDog]

33. I didn't miss the point, we all know Cindy isn't running to win

The term quixotic comes to mind.

Nader wasn't really running to win either.

I mean to say that if Sheehan could make it a race, she could actually get attention from Pelosi, but getting trounced as she appears to be doing, Pelosi might not have to acknowledge her.

I actually think when you get trounced, you do your cause more harm than good.

After all, Nader's 2.75% showing for the Greens in 2000 did what, help the Green Party or hurt it?

[Yukari Yakumo]

35. Look at these numbers too...

Sheehan ... 11% Repug Support, 7% Dem Support

Repugs are supporting her more the Dems. HMMM...

[ludwigb]

36. Cindy Bashing does not reflect well on DU

or the candidate that Cindy-bashers support. If Sheehan's actions made it more likely that a GOPer was elected, that would be one thing. But all she is trying to do is raise the level of debate and get people engaged. This is coming from someone who would probably vote Pelosi over Sheehan, but respects when ordinary people rise to the challenge of citizenship.

Please start taking your aggression out on the people that are empowering and funding this war instead of those doing what they can to stop it.

[ronnykmarshall]

38. I agree.

While I don't support Cindy in THIS matter ... I do respect her and love her.

[ButterflyBlood]

43. Like Nader, Cindy de facto helps the GOP

Hell she's been bashing the Democrats screaming things like how they were the party of slavery (Freeper talking point), started the federal income tax and Federal Reserve (only a big problem if you're a Freeper or radical libertarian) and started every war of the 20th century except the first Gulf War (hmmmm, who was President when the US invaded Grenada and Panama? Oh and great way putting WWII and Iraq on the same level)

[Kolesar]

54. Slavery?

Yes, I missed that and the other "talking points". Fun idea for a thread title, and, ... please keep us up to date with this "primary contest".

[ButterflyBlood]

56. See

[Kolesar]

59. Your the fastest coder anywhere if you put that up for me! ... eom

[ButterflyBlood]

60. I got it from another post here

But still informative.

[dailykoff]

173. Yes Mr. Kos is a real whiz of a coder.

You'd almost think he gets a little help from CIA!
.....
"Markos Moulitsas Admits Working for the CIA"

"So, I applied to the CIA and I went all the way to the end. . . ."

http://www.myleftwing.com/showDiary.do;jsessionid=03F0F529438A08A276C3D603EBAD6627?diaryId=17528

[dailykoff]

198. Hey, where'd it go?

You know, that scurrilous graphic that was posted to a photobucket account bearing the user ID of the guy that called Sheehan an attention whore?

[Marrah_G]

139. She didn't say we were the party of slavery, she said we ARE the party of slavery

Her hatred of the Democratic party and her embracing of right wing and libertarian memes and ideals makes her a member of the opposition party in my opinion. Now instead of looking at her with admiration I look at her with a sort of disgusted pity.

I have sympathy for her loss but that in no way clouds my vision when it comes to her views and what I feel are very unstable actions probably at the encouragements of those who would ride her name recognition.

[ruggerson]

46. Neither does Dem bashing

something too many here seem too eager to forget.

[creeksneakers2]

76. Republicans want to continue the war

Sheehan is helping Republicans. No way is Sheehan doing something to stop the war now.

Republicans who are worried about getting voted out of office over Iraq are probably glad to hear stories about the Democratic base fleeing the party.

[bluedog]

39. too bad ..shes fair game n/t

[LostInAnomie]

40. I wonder how long it will be before...

... Cindy and her howling mob start disrupting Pelosi's campaign stops and trying shout her down?

[MODemocrat]

41. Great news

Cindy is trying to be a thorn in her side IMO. :boring:

[ruggerson]

44. And off to the greatest page you go

n/t

[Alexander]

45. Cindy Sheehan is well-known. This means she will lose, badly.

Watch the Cindybots stick their fingers in their ears and ignore any evidence to the contrary.

[AtomicKitten]

47. I could have sworn Ms. Sheehan abdicated her seat on the Dem bench.

Surely this point spread right out of the box can't be a surprise to anyone.

[Warren Stupidity]

61. Good. Now we can put away this nonsense that she is

threatening the Democratic hold on the house. Instead she is forcing a more honest examination of Pelosi's term as speaker, and that can only be a good thing.

[CreekDog]

78. She's not forcing anything when she's 59 pts behind Pelosi

[Warren Stupidity]

95. She gets media attention

and as Pelosi is likely otherwise running essentially unopposed in both primary and general elections, she forces Pelosi to actually campaign. I just don't see this as a bad thing. Pelosi clearly sold out the progressive base of the party that put the Democrats back into power in the House, and she should suffer for that, even if it is only the mild embarassment of the Sheehan campaign. I'd rather she faced a serious progressive challenge from within the Democratic Party, as I completely disagree with Nader's approach, but I'll take the symbolic opposition of Sheehan as a next best tactic.

[Hippo_Tron]

102. The Speaker's job is to campaign for others, not for themself

When you've reached that stature in Congress, you're supposed to be able to avoid the campaigning that rank-and-file have to do to get re-elected. Hence it was idiotic that we picked Tom Daschle to be the Dem Leader in the Senate since he had to get re-elected in South Dakota and all it took to unseat him was a strong challenger and a very red year.

[Warren Stupidity]

103. Well then the damn speaker had better not piss off the party base.

Which is exactly why I do not mind the Sheehan campaign at all. Pelosi is yet another arrogant beltway asshat and she deserves to be embarassed by this.

[miceelf]

192. Um

You're not "forcing a more honest" anything, if your candidacy is predicated on lies. Like the Dems being the party of slavery and income taxes being unconstitutional. I used to like her too, but it seems like she's being influenced by freepers or something.

[IndianaGreen]

64. We could use someone to challenge Pelosi in the Democratic primary

and for that matter, to challenge all those that voted to give Gonzo the powers that Beria enjoyed as head of Stalin's KGB.

Better yet, I would like to see someone like Maxine Waters challenge Pelosi for the Speakership.

Any volunteers?

[ButterflyBlood]

73. Waters is listed as one of the most corrupt members of Congress by CREW

A list that's overwhelmingly Republican by the way. Definitely not someone we want as the leader.

[MonkeyFunk]

89. Pelosi voted no on the FISA bill...

so perhaps Sheehan ought to run against somebody else. Like a republican?

[IndianaGreen]

106. As Speaker, Pelosi had the power to block the FISA bill

just as she had the power to block the war funding bill. She didn't! I assure you that if the shoe were on the other foot and it was Clinton's war and power grab, a Speaker Gingrich would have not only blocked war funding and FISA, but he would have put impeachment on the table.

Why are Pelosi and Reid so afraid of the GOP?

[MonkeyFunk]

109. And Pelosi

is not as politically naive as many DUers. She didn't act like a despot and do something very unpopular with her caucus and with the american people.

Thank god she's a grown-up.

[IndianaGreen]

111. Yeah, she is so good that she pissed away a 65% approval rating

and now the Democratic Congress is polling lower than the horrible Republican Congress it replaced.

We could do without such geniuses!

It reminds me of what some LDC supporters used to say a few years ago about the Democrats giving the GOP enough rope to hang themselves as a lame excuse for appeasing Bush.

[jgraz]

116. When they say...

Grown Up.

They mean: Corporatist. Pro-war, pro-establishment Corporatist.


Thank God we have so many "grown ups" in Congress. The military didn't really need those extra 3500 troops anyway. Or all those arms and legs and brains. Those grown-ups really helped to thin the herd there.

And seriously, were you really using all those rights?

[jgraz]

114. No, she voted YES. And hers was the most important vote

When she decided to let that bill come to a vote, she handed Bush his victory. No one else had that power and Pelosi chose to use it to let Bush take another steaming crap on the Constitution.

Don't let anyone tell you Pelosi's vote on this bill lets her off the hook. This bill is law because Nancy Pelosi wanted it to be law.

[jgraz]

119. Seriously, MonkeyFunk, why do you keep pretending that you haven't heard these arguments before?

We've been around this topic again and again and yet you keep raising Pelosi's NO vote as if that somehow absolves her -- the Speaker of the House -- of complicity in allowing this vote to happen at all.

Your persistence in pointing out this misleading fact raises some serious questions as to how committed you really are to engaging in good-faith debate on this or any topic.

[MonkeyFunk]

125. when have I pretended I havent heard them?

I just think they're stupid.

[jgraz]

129. Every time you bring up Pelosi's vote like she's some first-year congressman from Schenectady

The woman is Speaker of the House. She has a lot more power -- and a lot more to answer for -- than rank-and-file Democrats. What, in your mind, is "stupid" about acknowledging that simple fact?

[saracat]

191. Schenectady happens to be a large city in the tri city region of the NY state capitol.

Nothing is naive or ill informed about the residents of Schenectady.You are illustrating your ignorance by trying to cast them as so.

[jazzjunkysue]

66. She gets press coverage for the cause. You're missing the point.

This is about press time, and for those of us who have taken an entire day and $$ to go to one lousy protest and scream and walk and freeze or sweat all day without a bathroom and never even saw it covered by any press, we appreciate that she can get the press to cover her issue.

How many times have you had a TV microphone under your nose and saw it wind up on the national news? She will. And it will help.

[mzmolly]

97. Yes, it will help the Republicans.

Just like Nader's microphone adorned nose did in 2000 and perhaps 2004.

[defendandprotect]

115. Most of what we know about politics, NADER TOLD US -- !!!!

Wake up -- we'd know little about corporate-fascism and selling of government over the past four decades, except for the work of Ralph Nader -- !!!!

Nader -- whether you voted for him or not -- and I didn't . . .
was the voice of challenge to the Dems and Repugs --

Go and read the Nader platform --
it's what America should be about --

Yeah, really scarey people like Nader and the Greens who want an acountable government, national health care, labor empowered to create unions -- etc, etc, etc.

Who wants clean air, clean war -- and meaningful response to Global Warming -- ???? !!!!

National Health Care -- ???

Dangerous people those Nader-types -- !!!!

[mzmolly]

143. Speak for yourself.

Nader didn't invent the wheel, regardless of his claims to the contrary. :eyes: If he knew so damn much he wouldn't have enabled GWB, would he?

[defendandprotect]

174. You're close-minded about Nader . . . but think about the selling of government . . ..

and who was reporting that long, long ago --
From the Nixon days, at least --

Nader has been reporting a corporate-fascist take-over for decades.

And, many, many other important political issues -- from national health care and SS onward --

Read Nader's 2000 platform!!!

[mzmolly]

178. I've read his co-opted platforms. One belonged to the Green Party,

the other was a "I support the XYZ" manifesto.

Nader had a talk show and a voice, he used it for some good, and he's used it for "bad" as well. Google Nader and union busting for starters.

[defendandprotect]

184. As I said . . .. you obviously have personal animosity for Nader . . . .

Nader's platform was BASED on the Green Party platform, but with his own additions and amendments.
The Greens were, of course, "co-opted" by right-wing Democrats . . . perhaps that's what you meant?

XYZ Manifesto -- computer language?????

Nader the union buster --
Yeah, I see that Yahoo has a lot up on that -- but it's also a lot of garbage.

Nader has worked to make corps responsible -- to employees.
Nader has been allied with labor unions.

And, what might have been helpful is if Americans weren't so eager for scapegoats that they believe lies . . . perhaps we would have been more focused on the election STEAL of 2000 rather than on Nader as villan.

We're only waking up right now to the nightmare of Republican election steals -- probably going back as far as mid-60's -- and it's time to toss out black box voting.

[mzmolly]

194. Nader busted unions in his own companies, and he said Gore = Bush.

Regarding animosity, I don't like lying hypocrites, I'm funny that way.

http://www.realchange.org/nader.htm

[defendandprotect]

196. You're website is a right-wing joke --

And what a suspicious comment by Nader . . . !!!!

"Information is the currency of democracy. It's denial must always be suspect."

Evidently you simply don't get it --

However, we've had racketeering by the right-wing to rid the nation of unions --
we've had testimony from the criminals involved to tell us what they've done for big business.
And presumably, there has been involvement in union-busting at the highest levels of right-wing government.

And, you're upset because a small non-profit magazine run by Nader tries to exempt itself -- !!!!

Nader has done nothing but advise us all of the attacks on labor and labor laws.

Try Whole Foods -- they've kept unions at bay for decades now -- !!!!

[mzmolly]

197. No Nader is the joke, who takes money from the Right Wing. You see, the RW likes Nader.

The website has the goods on right wing candidates too. http://www.realchange.org/mccain.htm

Nader has done nothing but advise us all of the attacks on labor and labor laws.

Nader has done nothing but talk outside of his ass. He's a typical hypocrite.

Busted a union among his workers:

Ralph talks big about democracy and even unions. But when his own workers at one of his magazines, Multinational Monitor, got fed up with cruel working conditions and started agitating for a union of their own, Nader busted the union with all of the hardball techniques used by corporate owners across America. Workers at Public Citizen, another Nader group, also tried to form a union because of 60 to 80 hour work weeks, salaries that ranged from $13,000 down, and other difficult working conditions and were blocked by Nader, who remains unapologetic to this day.

Nader says "I don't think there is a role for unions in small nonprofit 'cause' organizations any more than ... within a monastery or within a union."

When ringleader Tim Shorrock filed the union recognition papers, Nader immediately transferred ownership in the Multinational Monitor to close friends who ran an organization ("Essential Information") that Nader had set up. When Shorrock showed up for work the next day, he had been fired, the locks were changed, and management called the police to charge him with theft (of his own work papers.) That charge was thrown out of court, but management fired the two supportive editors and sued the three of them for $1.2 million, agreeing to drop the intimidation suit only when they dropped their NLRB complaint. All of these action are straight from the hardball anti-union playbook, and Nader makes no apology.

According to Nader, "Public interest groups are like crusades…you can’t have work rules, or 9 to 5." Shorrock, with his "union ploy," became an "adversary" according to Nader. "Anything that is commercial, is unionizable," but small public interest organizations "would go broke in a month," Nader says, if they paid union wages, offered union benefits and operated according to standard work rules, such as the eight-hour day. Remember that Nader's well-funded organizations were amassing tons of extra money that Ralph has been playing the stock market with during all these events.

Abuses workers --

"How can we go out and try to save the world from people when we're grinding people to death all the time?"-- John Esposito, original staffer at Nader's Center for the Study of Responsive Law

"Nader strikes me as conforming to the stereotype people have of sociologists and politicians: they bleed for the poor and downtrodden but mistreat their maids." -- David Sanford

Like many Washington politicians, Ralph Nader's groups have long taken advantage of earnest young ambitious workers, with two differences; Nader was more controlling and paid far less. In 1976, many were paid $5,000 per year and only a few at the top made as much as $20,000. (Nader's organizations refuse to release information on what they pay workers.) Meanwhile, Nader required daily logs of everything the workers did from 7am to 9pm, plus monthly summaries of these logs. If you didn't turn in your logs, you didn't get paid.

Nader often called workers after midnight or on sunny weekend days, with instructions, or just to test their willingness to work hard. When a revolt over working conditions broke out in the Congress Project and students demanded a group session with Nader, he contemptuously scheduled a meeting at 7:00 am, believing that few would show up.

9 marriages of staffers broke up under the pressure, including John and Nancy Esposito's, Mark Green's, Sid Wolfe's, and Davitt McAteer's.

What makes this meanness worse is that Nader claims to be defending workers -- for example in opposing the GATT treaty -- and that his organizations have a huge surplus of money, accumulating millions of dollar with which Ralph has played the stock market.

Sorry it is you that doesn't "get it."

[jazzjunkysue]

117. She can't possibly get enough votes to throw it. This is press, not votes.

[mzmolly]

124. It's about what kind of press? "Democrats are akin to Republicans."

I don't applaud it personally. Those who say it's about "press" are using that talking point as an excuse to promote her campaign on a Democratic discussion board IMHO.

[onenote]

105. and when the "cause" as personified by sheehan goes down in flames

how does that help?

The cause is a good one. But Cindy's pointless run at Pelosi isn't going to help it.

[laugle]

72. I wish Cindy would run for Dianne Feinstein's seat, she'd have a better chance! nt

[mitchtv]

75. I wish she would run in her home District

What is it ? Vacaville? or Fairfield?

[AlCzervik]

77. i wish she'd move up here to district 3 and unseat my republican rep.

[mitchtv]

90. Codially invited to run as a Dem here in Ca 45-R ,too

.

[bonito]

79. No tears here

http://ebaumsworld.com/flash/play/9336
:)

[rucky]

80. Does anybody here understand the concept of process over product?

[proud2BlibKansan]

85. Guess not

LOL

[fujiyama]

87. good

[dailykoff]

88. And Sheehan announced less than a week ago?

I'd say this looks very bad for Nancy and her little table.

[mitchtv]

91. We Democrats are so scarred!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hahahahahaha go tell it to Independent Undergrounf

[dailykoff]

93. Somebody is, or they wouldn't have ginned up this poll.

And 9% the day after she announced is pretty impressive.

[Alexander]

104. Only in bizzaro world is 9% "impressive".

Everyone knows who Sheehan is by this point, and she's alienated almost all of her supporters except the Naderites.

[Mike Daniels]

142. Man, what are you smoking/dropping?

There probably isn't a person in the US who doesn't know who Cindy Sheehan is and you think pulling 9% in a district that would be pre-disposed to her is impressive?

It's only going to get smaller when she actually has to defend or explain some of the non-war related statements she's made in the last few weeks.

[dailykoff]

145. Yes I think it's impressive

that this polling agency, which I've never heard of and was probably contracted by Pelosi or her backers, would feel compelled to report even that much. I'd also guess the actual number is closer to 20% at this point.

[Yukari Yakumo]

149. Now you're accusing the poll of being biased?

Here, I think this is your hat.

:tinfoilhat:

[dailykoff]

151. Somebody had to pay for it.

Can you tell me who?

[CreekDog]

175. you never heard of surveyusa?

then you don't read the news.

[dailykoff]

176. Conducts "private market research for the nation's most discriminating clients"?

Like, let's say, Mrs. Pelosi or the CIA? That SurveyUSA? Now I have.

http://www.google.com/search?q=surveyusa&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

[ButterflyBlood]

96. She was known long before that

People already know who she is, and Pelosi has hardly any name recognition advantage.

[Vidar]

92. No on, least of all Cindy, expects Cindy to win. This is political

theater intended to expose Pelosi's betrayal of her mandate. Bravo Cindy!

[Yukari Yakumo]

98. What mandate? Whose mandate? {nt}

[Totally Committed]

100. The result from 2006. Ours. {nt}

TC

[puebloknot]

110. Do you know that, straight from the horses mouth? Maybe you do! nt

[LittleClarkie]

133. Did Pelosi run on an impeachment platform for re-election

?

[davidwparker]

101. the night is young

[rjones2818]

108. WhooHoo!

First Poll!

To look at the reaction to Cindy's running before the announcement, you'd have bet that she would have gotten 0%.

It's a good start!

[Zynx]

112. Enough of this non-news already.

[defendandprotect]

113. Why this obsession with a woman who is anti-war -- ??????

With all Democrats have to deal with -- GW, fascism crossing our threshold, phoney elections --
failing infrastructure -- corruption at the DO Justice -- a mafia like presence in our White House . . .and your obsessed with personally attacking Cindy Sheehan -- ?????

Why???

[jgraz]

118. Because she challenged The Party

And we all know The Party is the most important thing. Above country, above honor, above the lives of our fellow citizens.

Cindy is challenging the Speaker of the friggin House. She has NO CHANCE to win -- she can't even threaten Pelosi's victory -- and she probably knows it. But she's putting herself out there for her cause in a way that absolutely none of her attackers would have the stones to do.

It's sick and it's shameful to see a good woman smeared out of simple, naked partisanship. Is this really what being a Democrat is about? Really? How many of you feel proud of our party seeing Cindy Sheehan slandered like this?

[Yukari Yakumo]

122. It's because

No one in their right mind would pull a stunt like this and think it would help anything. Many of us realize stunts like this further marginalizes things and makes getting any progress done harder. Cindy is helping no one but herself and her own ego.

When she resorts to outright slander (see below), she deserves nothing more than to be grouped with the likes of mAnn Coulter.
_______________

[jgraz]

123. So that makes it OK when we do it

Sorry, but it feel too much like kicking someone's crutches out from under them. I kinda thought Democrats weren't the party of cruelty and bullying.

[defendandprotect]

127. It's looks like you're Cindy Sheehan-obsessed -- nor is a third party run a "stunt" --

You don't seem to register that impeachment is a serious issue with many Democrats --
calling this administration to account as the founders intended.

When Pelosi took her OATH . . . it was to uphold the Constitution as her primary duty.
Not secondary, not last-minute thinking -- but PRIMARY DUTY.

Meanwhile, if your sensitivies are so riled by Sheehan's comments about our history, perhaps you should read something of "Secrets of the Temple" by Wm. Greider --
Something of the truth of the dropping of the atomic bombs on civilians in Japan --
purposely done.
And the long Democratic Party connection to Segregation in the South, at the least --
And, it sure was FDR in the White House when they put Japanese American citizens in detention camps!!!

Try giving some of that attention to Bushco --

[defendandprotect]

126. Agree!!! Would Dems like to demand that they have no third party opposition???

I think so -- !!!!

The challenge isn't going to be to Pelosi's position nor to her seat --

Simply to her thinking -- and the direction she's taking the party in -- re Iraq and dealing with
this fascist regime.

[saracat]

135. But it is just fine to smear Pelosi every chance you get!

This just annoys the heck out of me.I am so sick of Cindy.It isn't as though she is a saint or has even accomplished much but call attention to herself.And now she is demeaning the accomplishments of the first woman Speaker! Because somehow Nancy should have ended the War single handedly and on Cindy's schedule!

[jgraz]

146. Who's calling Pelosi a whore? Or mentally ill? Is anyone calling her "The Enemy"?

We criticize her job performance which has been piss-poor. Can you not see the difference?


And, BTW, one of these women is a political novice with NO CHANCE of winning her election, while the other is Speaker of the House. Can you not see where this so-called "double-standard" is absolutely justified?

[saracat]

147. Cindy is a non Democrat running AGAINST a seated Dem! Don't you see the problem with that?

That makes her the ENEMY just as any one else who is on the opposite side is the enemy? What don't you understand about that? And people are calling Pelosi even worse names than you have referred to.They are calling her a "traitor and incompetent." They are calling her a political prostitute. It appears that Cindy wants to dish it out but feels she shouldn't have to take it, ergo her constant complaining about how the bloggs have "attacked" her. For someone who can't stand the heat she sure wants to jump into the kitchen! Perhaps today she would like to attack Conyers again for continuing to pursue Rove! I am surprised that she she doesn't condemn him for that action too.After all it isn't her agenda for impeachment or ending the war!

[jgraz]

152. Not one fucking little bit

It's called democracy. Look it up.

[saracat]

154. It is called politics and Cindy is on the wrong side!

She has declared war on the Democratic Party and doesn't care if she manages to cause her venom to discredit any of our candidates.Cindy has now made herself and any of her ridiculous statements fair game the Dems.And the Dems have every right to eviscerate her!

[jgraz]

155. Do you realize what you sound like?

It isn't party over country -- that's the other guys, remember? Cindy has every right to challenge us and we, the party of Thinking People, should not have some knee-jerk HATE HATE HATE reaction to that.

The reason Nancy Pelosi is being challenged from the left is that she's opened up a lot of room there. That's a colossal mistake for someone running in one of the most liberal districts in the country. She's lucky she's not having more problems.

And, by the way, what do you think Cindy's chances are of winning? If you agree that they're ZERO, then you're attacking a Gold Star Mother and committed peace activist just because she deigned to challenge your home team. The Democrats don't gain one single seat in Congress from your "evisceration" of her. All it does is make you look like some foam-at-the-mouth partisan fanatic.

[saracat]

158. I am not the one who is a "foam in the mouth fanatic"..That appellation is best reserved

for Cindy and her blind devotees! I am however a proud "partisan".That is why I am a member of the Democratic Party.And I question Cindy's "commitment" to the Peace Movement.I believe she announced her withdrawal from that effort several months ago.If she were really "committed" to that effort she would not be attempting to tarnish the only people that could bring such efforts to fruition.It appears the only thing she is interested in is calling attention to herself even if it is at the expense of the Peace Movement.This is all very sad.Cindy is now aligned with the GOP with her various anti-Dem statements and her positions on taxation.She is trying to discredit all our candidates and influence the down ticket vote as well by slandering the party.I have no respect for such efforts even if they come from a "Gold Star Mother".Cindy is just one of many such mothers and all such grief should be respected but it does not entitle Cindy to "political" respect.

[jgraz]

161. Then why are you attacking a minor candidate who has no chance of winning?

Why not go after the Green candidate and the Peace and Freedom candidate and all the other "Enemies" who are running against our precious PelosiPants? If there's no chance of Pelosi losing her seat, all you're doing is acting like a bully.

[saracat]

162. Oh , please.The other "enemies" aren't getting press to condemn our entire party.

[jgraz]

163. So it's just the press she's getting?

You mean all that fawning, uncritical, supportive coverage from the MSM? :rofl:

Here's my theory: some people just like to take any opportunity to vent personal frustrations on someone who can't fight back. If you're really that upset, why don't you go to Cindy's next public appearance and confront her face-to-face? Or is that too "partisan" for you?

[Yukari Yakumo]

148. I see it all the fucking time...

...whenever something doesn't go the way the groupthink wants it too. Even if she voted against it, the bashers come out of the woodwork calling Pelosi things worse than "mentally ill" and "the enemy".

In short, your argument is a crock of shit.

And when you enter the political arena, everything you've said and done becomes fair game. Everything. Which includes the following:

[jgraz]

153. Yeah, it's easy to say "I see it all the time" and provide zero examples

You don't like Cindy's politics, that's your right. If you go after her mental status or attack her as a human being then you're in the realm of rabid, cult-style partisanship -- especially since you'd do nothing of the sort if she just put 'D' after her name.

[Yukari Yakumo]

164. Either you're stupid or blind

Look what happened around here after the FISA vote. Or the IWR vote. Or anytime anyone complains about the "impeachment is off the table" remark.

And we are well within our right to criticize Sheehan if she says things we'd normally expect mAnn Coulter to say and does things that only marginalizes support for the issues she claims to support. This is politics, live with it.

[jgraz]

165. Clearly anyone who disagrees with you must be stupid or blind

Welcome to DU. You'll do well here :eyes:

[Yukari Yakumo]

167. Oh come off your high fucking horse.

All you've been doing is sticking your fingers in your ears and going "naa naa naa can't hear you naa naa naa".

You wanted examples, I gave you examples. Then you resort to personal attacks. A clear sign that you have nothing to defend yourself with.

And I've been here a nice, long while.

And since you feel it should be "my way or no way", maybe you should leave and experience the real world for once. You are nothing but a clueless troll and a major reason why many of us cringe when Sheehan pulls stunts like this. It makes people who are honestly trying to accomplish these goals look like idiots by proxy and their jobs become all the much harder to do. It's clueless morons like you an "unnameable dogs" like Sheehan that give Freepers and their ilk something to point at and laugh and demonize the rest of us who are trying to get our boys home.

[jgraz]

170. Yes, and accusing people of "hiding behind the dead" is totally above board

Oh yeah, no "high fucking horse" there.

For someone who's been here quite a long time, you're remarkably unfamiliar with the fine art of getting along with your fellow adult human beings. Maybe you need a time out until you're ready to play nice with everyone else.

[saracat]

177. Like Cindy is "playing nice" with the Democratic Party?

[jgraz]

179. Thank you for playing Really Bad Analogies

:eyes:

[saracat]

180. Not so.Guess you don't have an answer! Pity.It was fun playing!

[jgraz]

181. Apparently you need explained to you the difference between criticizing a political party

and smearing an individual. The fact that you think those two things are equivalent tells me you really aren't equipped for a sensible conversation on this subject.

[saracat]

182. "smearing an individual" and "criticizing" a political party? Your bias is showing.

Cindy "lied' about the Democratic Party and the smears about her are only justifiable criticism of her conduct but whatever.Cindybots apparently have trouble with reality and facts!

[thatsrightimirish]

120. Why doesn't she challenge someone else in California?

Like a Republican.

[calteacherguy]

121. Because she's in in it for herself. She likes the attention. nt

[defendandprotect]

128. Yeah, we can all see how much FUN this is for Sheehan -- losing her son/being on road for years !!!

It's just what we all want to be able to do --
If you really want to judge time in the sun then you have to accuse ALL of the candidates of being attention whores --

I think you're a little over-concentrating on Cindy Sheehan --

This continues to be a strong anti-war message --

which also should include IRAN -- which Pelosi bowed out of re the "warning" to Bush.
**************************************************************************************

Besides being a message to all of us that our first responsibility is to protect the Constitution
and our liberties --

and IMPEACHMENT is the tool which the founders gave us to do this with --

[Freddie Stubbs]

138. At least it got here out of her husband's hair

[az chela]

188. Cindy has not had a vacation in over 3 years,she is too busy

fighting for us and trying to end the war and get rid of bushco.Right now she is in Jordan and then
she is going to Syria and to the refugee camps taking food ,medicine and fresh water for these people that have nothing!!!!
What is Pelosi doing on her vacation??

[Mutineer]

136. And that makes her different from other politicans exactly how?

They are ALL attention-seekers. That job demands you have that aspect to your personality. Duh.

[puebloknot]

157. Yeah, you can see it all over her careworn face how much she...

...loves the attention. That's Monday morning quarterbacking to powers of ten!

[Freddie Stubbs]

137. Haha. More Democrats would vote for a hypothical Republican that Sheehan

:P

[Name removed]

150. Deleted message

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[orleans]

169. there's a poll on this? already? n/t

[dailykoff]

172. Something a little "spooky" about the whole thread

if you catch my drift.

[illinoisprogressive]

171. No way is Sheehan going to unseat Pelosi.

[MrMickeysMom]

183. Brilliant...

... This sure prompts intelligent discussion... :eyes:

[knight_of_the_star]

187. The best part is the breakdown of the information

The only categories of voters where the total is less than 63 percent for Pelosi are for conservatives and Republicans and that's not much of a surprise.

[JNelson6563]

199. Ok, here's the thing about this

Obviously there's no way Cindy could possibly win this. The people of this district have the Speaker of the House representing them, they're not going to replace that with a one-trick-pony with no experience and a history of making these facts abundantly clear.

I gotta believe there is nothing but pure ego driving this move. If anyone thinks she's going to achieve anything simply by running I direct your attention to Gravel. Kucinich is in a similar position, utterly ignored by the corporate media and not taken seriously as a candidate by the masses. Unlike Gravel (and Sheehan for that matter) Kucinich is at least a House Rep and can achieve things that can help with this situation but not by much, sadly.

I think that the progressive change we do achieve in Congress during the 08 cycle will come from nowhere, veritable unknowns (at least on the national level). Like Webb and Tester. These guys didn't have Cindy's celebrity but worked hard and ran good campaigns. And they weren't running against Speaker/Majority Leader either.

My .0125 worth.

Julie