For those who have the patience - Biden on NPR

[Inuca]

Charlie Rose to be precise http://www.charlierose.com/shows/2007/08/09/1/a-conversation-with-senator-joseph-biden#comment_47292. Long, calm, and very informative. Worth an hour of your life, really. Biden may not be perfect, but he is an intelligent, knowledgeable ADULT of good will, who ponders his options carefully. Yes, I know, he does not always speak that way, and some people consider him a buffoon because of that. He is anything but. Watch the interview if you really care about more than superficial labels, and you will get a chance to see the real Biden.

[saltpoint]

1. 'Was tipped off to this appearance by DUer babylonsister's post and feel

you are right -- Biden is worth the attention of any citizen who has not been to Iraq even once, nevermind 7 times.

Imagine for a moment a debate between pro-partition Biden and pro-surge McCain.

We win on points alone.

[EST]

2. Unfortunately, contrary to what I learned in high school,

political debates are only won on points in democratic imaginations. A surprising majority of Democrats are compulsively, obsessively intellectual.
We are impressed by careful, logical arguments, taking as much of the real world into account as possible, modeling the situation in our minds and looking for solutions as outcomes of that modeling.
We vote for these same types, trying to elect bright, fairly cautious people who have a strong empathy and have an understanding that constitutions and laws are more for limiting how much a government can interfere with the people, rather than limiting the extent that people can interfere with government.
A majority of republicans and not a few democrats abandon the thoughtful approach, perhaps it's too complex, and go from their "guts," or their heart, choosing the rugged, cigar chomping railroad engineer, or the common man of myth whose "common sense" approach always blows the intellectuals into the weeds.

Their guiding vision, even though it reflects reality in a vanishingly small number of cases, is that rugged individualist, star of practically every Zane Grey novel ever written, who possesses a "lucky streak" or some kind of innate ability to pick the proper course with little or no information. And that's how they vote.

-And that's how we got into this horrid, rotten mess. That kind of Zane Gray man does not exist and never did. You can't steer a nation-state with hunches.

[saltpoint]

3. I love your invocation of Zane Grey. I agree that that figure does not

exist in the true, actual realms, but he lives on as a sort of caricature of himself.

There's an electability hinge at play here also. There's more Zane in Ike than there was in Adlai, and voters picked accordingly.

Gore won the popular vote, but sadly it was a close election because Zane Bush appealed to the anti-intellectual populace who thought they wanted to have a beer with him.

The same dismissive conduct was shown to John Kerry, who was "too intellectual." "Too French." "We're gonna stick with Dubya, on account he don't use no 'g's on his verbs and he's a brush-clearin' fool."

The dividend for those voters in picking Dubya of course is to have people like Harriet Miers on the Supreme Court and Alberto Gonzales running their Justice Department. Not what you and I would call a bargain.

Next summer we intellectual Democrats will invade Denver, a west-of-the-Mississippi outpost. Zane Grey country.

Remnants of the Old West remain. But it's long gone in most places. It disappeared fast. When the wire gizmos replaced the pony riders in the 19th century it began to fade. Reagan was its last feeble disciple in politics. As Alzheimer's claimed Reagan, a kind of collective dementia will grip the nation, and the cowboy will begin to disappear as a symbol of resoluteness and Zane-Greyness. Larry McMurtry gets to the heart of this fade-out in his contemporary novels about Texas. LONESOME DOVE is a testament to the once-great pioneer ranchland resolute resticent rough-and-ready cowboy but there's a strong tilt toward what's to come.

In Peter Shaffer's EQUUS, the character Alan Strang, yearning for independence from his clueless parents, tells the audience he would prefer to be a cowboy. "I bet all cowboys are orphans. I bet they are." The Pony Express riders were largely orphans. The recruiting posters even said, "Orphans Prefered."

Out in Denver next summer, there won't be any ponies coming through. It will be modern times and air conditioning and limo taxis.

[Inuca]

9. Great post :-)

[harrison]

4. I have come to believe that Sen Biden

is the most qualified person running. We need this man to lead this country. He personally knows the tragedies of life that befall so many people. From what I gather, there is much respect for him among other governments. His son is AG in Delaware and a Captain in the National Guard and is scheduled for deployment in 2008

I think this man has the ability to begin helping "unscrew" this screwed up country. He is a life long Democrat who was first elected to the Senate at 29 because of his belief in Civil Rights. Yet, one of his earliest friends when he came to the Senate was John Stennis, the old Dem from Mississippi. Some years later, Sen. Stennis told Sen. Biden that he was right on the whole civil rights issue and all the old Senators from the Confederate States were wrong. My point is that he has the ability sustain his convictions, yet still work with people.


We need his experience at this critical time. Things are going to be in such a mess after Bushco leave office.

[saltpoint]

5. Good post. I didn't know that story about Stennis and Biden.

It's instructive.

Ya can't get much more old guard than John Stennis.

[harrison]

6. Biden's first wife, who died just after he

was elected to the Senate, had done her Masters thesis on William Faulkner. I don't know what needs to happen for this man to get some traction. The money is certainly not pouring in to him so he sure isn't held captive to the corporate interests. He has had his own brushes with death, undergoing high risk surgery for health issues. Aside from his self-admitted ability to misspeak, the man is extremely intelligent. He is just not a sound bite guy because he knows that we live in complex times and things can't be solved by sound bites.

I hope the good people in Iowa will give him a boost. Then who knows what might happen.

[saltpoint]

8. Hi, harrison. Yes. Biden's time may not be far off. As the news

from Iraq does not improve and may even grow worse, the foreign policy specialist's voice grows more clear and urgent.

That would be Biden.

As you see I'm supporting John Edwards as a first-choice candidate but would have absolutely no problem with Biden. As for misspeaking, I don't count that as a grievous trait of Joe Biden prior to 2000 and ESPECIALLY not now after 6-7 years of consecutive sputtering babble from Dubya.

Biden's got the chops and world politics may intervene to push him toward a destiny with voters.

I believe he will be in contention for the top 3 spots in Iowa.

[Inuca]

10. One thing that may happen

between now and the end of the year is for his partition plan for Iraq to become more visible and get more traction. To be honest, I do not know whether I agree with it or not. I just do not know, do not have enough information, nor the time/patience to try to digest the limited information I do have. But it may end up being the only alternative (Biden says it already is the only alternative) to complete chaos. We shall see...

[jillan]

11. There is one thing missing, as I see it

A big endorsement.

There are 3 Senators - 1 big name - that I cannot believe have not come out and endorsed him.

BUT ~ I think it is a vicious circle. His poll numbers stay low, so people don't want to come out and endorse him,
so his poll numbers stay low.

Kinda like what happened at the AFL/CIO forum.
They weren't expecting Kucinich to win. So they didn't endorse anybody.
I thought that was going to be handed on a silver plater to Edwards since he is in the top tier.

[Inuca]

12. He will have to fight it out

in IA and NH on his own. If he does better than "conventional wisdom" expects him to do, the game may change. And I think I know who your big name is :-).

[demommom]

15. I think I know too.

[demommom]

14. I think you are surely right about the endorsement.

[ToeBot]

7. "He personally knows the tragedies of life that befall so many people."

Yep, he's even helped cause a few of them. Sorry, I won't vote for a ticket if Biden, Richardson or Clinton is anywhere on it.

[demommom]

13. This was a very good interview .

[demommom]

16. kick

:kick:

[bread_and_roses]

17. Mr. credit card co biden will never get an hour of my time or my vote (n/t)

[jillan]

18. Maybe you better look at this before you say that

Money from commerical banks

1) Obama $607,259
2) Clinton $492,725
3) McCain $479,085
4) Romney $451,771
5) Giuliani $416,901
6) Dodd $352,500
7) Edwards $131,876
8) Biden $102,250
9)Richardson $83,000

(Thx to dmc for providing this info)

[bread_and_roses]

19. pretty cheap pay-off, eh? well, cry me a river (n/t)

[jillan]

20. Biden's knowledge of foreign relations is as deep as Al Gore's knowledge of Climate Change.

This is not a question and answer interview.
There are no soundbites.

It is an in-depth discussion.