Bill Clinton to Karl Rove: "Hey, you did a marvelous job, it was just marvelous what you did."

[flpoljunkie]

The Clintons recognize the skill Rove has brought to politics and admire his craft, if not his ideology. Just days after the November 2004 election, Bill Clinton pulled Rove aside at the dedication of the William J. Clinton Presidential Library in Arkansas. "Hey, you did a marvelous job, it was just marvelous what you did," Clinton told Rove, according to the book "The Way to Win: Taking the White House in 2008," by John F. Harris and Mark Halperin. "I want to get you down to the library. I want to talk politics with you. You just did an incredible job, and I'd like to really get together with you and I think we could have a great conversation."

From "The Rove Legacy" by Peter Baker in today's Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/14/AR2007081401722.html

[MessiahRp]

1. This is why I don't want the Clintons anywhere near our nomination.

:puke:

[acmavm]

5. This is part of why I think Billy is a walking talking asshole. His

support of everything bush** makes me sick. Not mention his kick in the pants to the American worker. And his slick triangulation of the meaning of the word 'sex'.

[roguevalley]

48. I agree. I also don't agree with them that he's some sort of savant.

Idiot perhaps, but nothing more. If I had unlimited money to lie, cheat and steal, I could probably triumph too. Karl Rove is a hack with money who belongs in jail.

[venable]

87. and Clinton supporters wonder why we loathe her.

end of story.

[librechik]

2. hmmm. Why do I doubt this anecdote?

The WaHOPo is usually so trustworthy...

:sarcasm:

[krkaufman]

119. Sounds like a Freeper bashing the "liberal media"

[wyldwolf]

3. I'm in total agreement.

[karynnj]

26. I would have thought better of you.

[wyldwolf]

38. See post 12

[rurallib]

4. As Bush surveys a once great country now ravaged by neglect

and corruption, the pResident puts his arm around KKKKarl and says
"Heck of a job, Rovey"

[Tellurian]

6. Hilarious!

Thanks for a good laugh starting off the day!

I noticed there's no attribution to the OP's quote..

But there is a more believable one here in the same OP with (gasp) an attribution and just a tad of embellishment..

"That's not to say Rove hasn't irritated the Clintons. Hillary Clinton uses him regularly as a foil in fundraising appeals and on the trail. And by last year, Bill Clinton was expressing exasperation rather than admiration. "I am sick of Karl Rove's (manure)," the former president exclaimed to New Yorker magazine's David Remnick. Even then, Remnick wrote, "there was a trace of admiration in the remark, a veteran pol's regard for the way his rival had packaged a radical brand of American conservatism as 'compassionate conservatism' and kept on pushing it long after its sell-by date had passed."

[flpoljunkie]

7. A Bill Clinton flip-flop on Karl? First he admired Karl in '04 and then in '06 he was exasperated?

Hilarious, indeed!

[Tellurian]

68. Who says so? "The Book?"

Talking books...who knew?

[Bitwit1234]

8. BULLSHIT....this is what I think of rove's so called book

He can write anything he wants....and suckers believe it.

[karynnj]

27. It wasn't Rove's book

It was a book by Harris and Halperin - 2 MSM political writers - who also in their book said that Matt Drudge was the Edwards R Murrow of our times.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

43. LMAOOOOOO ... well then ...

It MUST be true!!! These Clinton bashers are beginning to convince me to vote FOR Hillary just to spite their obsessive slamming.

[karynnj]

46. responding to make sure you know that I do not think

that what I do know of the book does anything other than make the authors look like ammoral hacks. At one time the first chapter was available on the web, but I do not remember where. It essentially went though in exquisite detail how the Republicans and Rove fabricated a story.

In Short:

A Republican opperative saw John Kerry go to a DC stylist to get his hair cut. It was a non-story. Kerry simply went in, got a $75 haircut and left. She however alerted Drudge that Kerry had gone to this well known stylist. They created a story that he spent $1000, had his hair highlighted, colored, styled etc - complete with quotes about how fussy Kerry was that his hair be just so etc. This was put up somewhere and Druge then circulated it. Kerry's office quickly responded to the media saying that he simply got a $75 haircut. The authors lavished praise on Drudge and the Republican official and bashed the Kerry people.

My problem was not with the accuracy, but with their admiration for sleasiness.

[Colorado Progressive]

9. How do you know this is true?

[rudy23]

10. Thanks for putting us through 4 more years of hell so Hillary can be president

a Kerry victory would've stolen Hillary's thunder. Never forget Carville's role in tipping off a recount.

I'm convinced the Dems' "don't rock the boat" strategy right now is coming from the Clinton machine. No impeachments, no real hearings, no backbone on wiretapping, Iran, etc...

Never forget how far they are willing to go to gain power.

[lazer47]

15. Your posting on the wrong board

[karynnj]

29. Why -

Bill Clinton does not represent all Democrats. As to not criticizing him, I might be more impressed if he stopped criticizing Kerry and Gore, both better men than he will ever be.

[lazer47]

36. Maybe it is me on the wrong board, I thought we were not supposed

to be trashing Dems. on Democratic Underground.

[karynnj]

40. As Democrats, we need to be able to say when a Democrat is wrong

The bigger problem with this is that it may not be true - and as I said in my first post I hope it is not. If it is, we have a right and maybe a responsibility to say it was wrong if we think it is.

Bill Clinton has never been up for sainthood. (nor has any other Democrat)

[venable]

88. this is not trashing democrats, this is trashing a couple that admires the

most corrupt, perverse killing machine, destroyer of language and constitutional rights...this man who bubba admires is the devil.

this is not trashing democrats, this is trashing a candidacy that admires Rove. therein lies the fundamental difference between her supporters and the rest of the democratic party.

progressive democrats, moderate democrats, democrats of all stripes that I know dislike HRC almost as much as they dislike bush. the OP explains why.

[rudy23]

37. Hillary's running in the wrong party--she should go back to her Republican roots

So now we can't disagree with a Clinton without being called a non-Democrat. So you're either with us, or against us? Where have I heard that before?

[sharp_stick]

11. Mark Halperin is a well known lying POS

I for one don't believe a single word of that dick's mouth.

[wyldwolf]

12. Why the wailing an gnashing of teeth? Rove did an EXCELLENT job

...what was his job? Getting Bush elected (selected) twice, keeping the Democrats always guessing, always in "fear" of what he was doing? Yes, he did an incredible job. The DU archives are full of people who wonder what role Rove played behind every slimy Republican victory.

Do you not think there would be a level of respect between Genghis Kahn and Alexander The Great if they were contemporaries???

[polichick]

47. He did an excellent job putting someone into office...

...who was never legally elected??? He did an excellent job making sure both elections were rigged a hundred different ways???

[wyldwolf]

49. ..and he got away with it, too. That was his job, and he was excellent at it.

[polichick]

50. Yeah, well I guess terrorists and pedophiles are excellent at their jobs too...

Give me a freakin' break!!!

[wyldwolf]

53. A very sad reply. You give ME a freakin' break.

Karl Rove was the devil to Democrats for 6 years. He beat us at almost every turn. He was given that job. He was successful at it.

[polichick]

57. I find your view extremely sad...

Criminal behavior is to be admired if it gets the job done?? Sad indeed!

[wyldwolf]

59. too bad. Rove was excellent at the job he was given. Like it or not.

[polichick]

61. Well, I hope Bill Clinton did not actually say it...

...and mean it the way it was taken. If it turns out he did, I don't want him back in the WH ~ even as first mate.

[wyldwolf]

62. ..the way it was taken by who?

Bill Clinton is not responsible for how you interpret his words.

[polichick]

70. Well, obviously I'm still not sure how he meant them...

...or even if he said them. I was referring to the original message.

You're pretty touchy whenever anyone isn't falling at the Clintons' feet ~ why is that exactly??

[wyldwolf]

72. I would sit down and discuss politics with Karl Rove

Why do you think I'm touchy if I'm defending my position and asking people to clarify theres?

[venable]

82. go ahead, sit down with him. I have nothing but disdain for the conversation you wd have.

and now I understand how purported dems can accept HRC.

[venable]

83. dupe post nt

[Cameron27]

89. Well that's quite a broadbrush.

I have one too. I'll never understand how anyone who calls themselves a Democrat, can possibly support someone with such laughably bad judgment as John Edwards.

I'm not even backing Clinton, but these attacks are insulting.

[venable]

94. Edwards is the true progressive Democrat.

Tell me in what way John Edwards is not a true democrat? Is it his commitiment to poverty, to civil rights, to diplomacy with Iran, to universal health care, to coralling the deleterious behavior of corporation as they impoverish Americans and destroy the environment....etc, etc. what is not 'true democrat' about him. You have no answer for that. No honest answer.

You may despise JE, but you can never say that his program is not the most purely, traditional, unapologetic Democrat program in years.


Bill Clinton (ergo HRC, let's be honest) admires the corrupting, sickening, nation and soul killing methods of Karl Rove.

There is no brush broad enough to mark these horrid people in the way they deserve. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

[Cameron27]

100. Edwards says he's committed to whatever he says he's

committed to. His Senate record says differently.

I wasn't really attacking Edwards or defending Clinton, I was referring to your insulting remarks about Clinton's supporters.

[venable]

110. I know what you were referring to..

and I don't know how you can even make the comparison between:

Edwards who proposes true democratic programs (even if you think his votes in the past don't support it - which I dispute)

and

Bill (ie HRC) Clinton who admires Rove and admires what he's done.

The proportions, even if you doubt Edwards, seem vastly out of whack.

[Cameron27]

114. I do doubt Edwards,

and he scares me more than Clinton ever could. I'm not going to hijack this thread to give you all my reasons, but I have them just as you have your own opinion of Clinton.

[wyldwolf]

92. and now I understand how purported Dems stay clueless.

[venable]

95. have you no shame?

have you no decency?

Karl friggin Rove! He admires Karl Rove.

Have you no conscience?

"Clueless Dems', as you call them - thank god for them. They are our only hope.

[wyldwolf]

97. have you no sense?

Have you no brains?

Karl friggin Rove! I recognize how effective he was.

Have you no political sensibilities?

"Clueless Dems', as I call them - clueless Dems.

[venable]

98. trying to calm down - please consider this:

Karl Rove brought to power the worst, most destructive president in the history of the Republic. You don't deny that, I'm sure.

Karl Rove did so by bamboozling, lying, smearing, destroying (see Cleland, Max), perverting justice (see FL 2000, Ohio 2004).

Tell me honestly if you think that the accumulation of power is worth the methods he used.

If you think so, then you know what I think of that opinion. If Bill really did say this (and I can barely imagine it -even as much as I dislike him now, and he was once almost my hero, or at least he was one of the good guys that would lead us out of the morass of our country's recent history. I was wrong.)

Please answer honestly - do you think that accumulation of power is justified by the way Karl Rove works? Do you think that power thus accumulated is worth having?

[wyldwolf]

101. Right

Karl Rove brought to power the worst, most destructive president in the history of the Republic. You don't deny that, I'm sure.

Right, that's what he was hired to do. He did his job well.

Karl Rove did so by bamboozling, lying, smearing, destroying (see Cleland, Max), perverting justice (see FL 2000, Ohio 2004).

Right, that's what he was hired to do. He did his job well.

Tell me honestly if you think that the accumulation of power is worth the methods he used.

No, but he was successful. That's what he was hired to do. He did his job well.

If you think so, then you know what I think of that opinion. If Bill really did say this (and I can barely imagine it -even as much as I dislike him now, and he was once almost my hero, or at least he was one of the good guys that would lead us out of the morass of our country's recent history. I was wrong.)

Please answer honestly - do you think that accumulation of power is justified by the way Karl Rove works? Do you think that power thus accumulated is worth having?


No, but he was successful. That's what he was hired to do. He did his job well.

[Forkboy]

106. Mengele was sucessful in his job but I wouldn't sit down to discuss oven operations with him.

[wyldwolf]

107. Alexander The Great was successful and I would love to discuss military strategy with him

[venable]

109. answer the mengele analogy, why don't you nt

[wyldwolf]

123. Sorry, no.

[tomp]

127. you are literalizing to the point of absurdity.

rove did a dastardly job excellently well. that's admirable?

bush and cheney were "hired" to loot the treasury and steal oil at the cost of many dead iraqis. they have done an excellent job by that standard. admire them? want to sit down and have a "great conversation? with them?

logical? sure. reasonable or sensible? no way!

IF clinton said this, he's a fucking asshole. get out of logic and debating 101 and get in the real world.

[wyldwolf]

131. you're mischaracterizing

rove did a dastardly job excellently well. that's admirable?

Did I say it was admirable?

Sure, I'd sit down with Bush and Cheney and ask, "how'd you get away with it?"

get out of logic and debating 101 and get in the real world.

The real world is logic.

[JTFrog]

125. Hitler was effective too. n/t

[lyonn]

69. Rove was slick, but

Bush had the backup of a repub. Congress. They used and abused the rights the American people gave to govt. officials. They could lie and there was no way to prove otherwise since they controlled all investigations. Rove was slimy and without scruples. Why did Poppa bush can him years ago?

[dionysus]

90. and it comes down to you defending KKKarl Rove.

at long last, sir, have you no sense of decency? That's a rhetorical question, by the way, don't bother answering it.

[wyldwolf]

91. defending him? That is a stupid statement. I recognize his effectiveness.

at long last, sir, have you no sense of decency? That's a rhetorical question, by the way, don't bother answering it.

[cui bono]

122. Not really, considering everyone knows he cheated.

The problem is the Dems did an abysmal job of stopping him. Well, not really abysmal since they didn't do the job at all.

Why did not one Dem senator stand up in support of Gore when the 2000 election was in the process of being stolen? Perhaps Rove did do that as well. Maybe you are right, if he is the one keeping the Dems from doing anything to stop BushCo.

[Uncle Joe]

79. It wasn't Rove, it was the the corporate media, that made the race close enough for Bush to steal

in 2000. The corporate media slandered and trashed Al Gore relentlessly,while simultaneously camouflaging Bush's obvious shortcomings, it didn't take a genius to enable Bush to power. In a football game, if corrupt referees are intent on enabling one team to win, talent has nothing to do with it. The primary reason Bush is in the White House today, is because the corporate media didn't want Al Gore in power and did want Bush. I believe the primary motivation for their betrayal against the American People by enabling a corrupt, incompetent to the White House over a vastly superior leader, was because Al Gore was the primary champion of the Internet thereby empowering the people and thus threatening the corporate media's monopoly on information, power, money and influence. That's what this is all about.

[venable]

81. I am sickened by your acceptance of this

Rove is a polluter of democracy, and killer of people and cultures, and worse and worse - and if you think that this is just 'politics' and that it's understandable that bubba can appreciate such genius, then I understand exactly why you can accept Hillary Clinton.

A pox on Rove, on Bill, on Hillary, and on anyone who thinks this is just hunky-dory.

feh!

[wyldwolf]

108. and I don't give a rat's ass how sick you are.

[venable]

113. i'm sure you don't.

goodbye and good luck.

[tammywammy]

85. Agreed

Rove was excellent at what he did. His job was to get Bush "elected" twice and continue the republican stronghold. He did that, not only was Bush "elected" twice, but republican's kept the House & Senate during the 2002 election.

Hey, I don't care for Bush or Rove for that matter, but he did do his job well.

[Donna Zen]

111. Genghis Kahn and Alexander the Great?

An odd set of robbers to cite.

Anyway, Rove may be your personal role model but I would suggest that he has cheapened the democratic process. While elections have always had a nasty edge in America, Rove achieved a level of criminality that this country has not seen before. Who can forget that he was willing to out a CIA agent as means of burying the truth? To win those elections, Rove sacrificed the institutions and the good of the country. The end does not justify the means when in the end we are left a lesser people.

I stand in opposition to any Rove who dares to shred the Constitution and undermines the rule of law.

BTW, whenever I've heard Halprin in interviews, he is not critical of Senator Clinton.

[wyldwolf]

124. yet ANOTHER mischaracterization

Everything say say is true EXCEPT him being my personal role model which was a stupid statement.

Rove, doing everything he did, was GOOD at it. He SUCCEEDED. DEAL with it.

[Alamom]

13. The stench of Rove is all over this pos. The republicons have blamed the Clintons for

everything possible for years.....& now, so-called members of the "Democrat" Party will jump on board. One party due to fear and the other due to desperation.

[Cameron27]

16. The one candidate that the republicans fear

is Clinton. No one's had more shit thrown at them, and no one's survived and succeeded in spite of it, better than they have. Just for that reason alone they know how these attacks work better than anyone else, and they've learned how to fight them off.

The opposition may be trying a new tactic this time. Try to knock out the front runner before the general. Smear by praising. It seems to be just a new wrinkle on the "but Clinton did it first" routine.

[flpoljunkie]

17. Time's Swampland Ana Maria Cox, formerly Wonkette, said it best: "She's their girl."

August 14, 2007

She's Their Girl

Posted by Ana Marie Cox

The White House calling out Hillary's new ad as "outrageous" and "audacious" plays so exactly in Clinton's hands that if I didn't know better, I'd assume the '08 campaign Karl's working on is hers.

http://time-blog.com/swampland/2007/08/shes_their_girl.html

[Cameron27]

20. And as I said in another thread,

the most brilliant Rovian strategy would be to persuade Democrats that Clinton was 'his' girl.

[LanternWaste]

24. By reading posts and threads around here the past few months

By reading posts and threads around here the past few months, it would appear Rove's tactic is working. Lots and lots of posters believing Sen. Clinton is simply Bush-Lite, and soon Pres. Clinton will get lumped into that.

I'm beginning to think Rove finally figured out how to play the internet against itself...

[Zenlitened]

71. That's been my suspicion lately, too...

... although you've summed it up much better than I've managed:

... the most brilliant Rovian strategy would be to persuade Democrats that Clinton was 'his' girl.

So many schemes-within-schemes-within-schemes from the Repukes over the years... a trick of this sort doesn't seem beneath them. :crazy:

As other DUers have said, let's vote for a candidate in the primary, not against the others. And certainly not based on what the Roves of the world "want" or "don't want."

[karynnj]

74. Gee , but if so many of us think it is Rove's strategy,

it is likely Rove's strategy that he wants us to think that he wants us to think that she is "his" choice which means ???

or - is it more comlicated:


(he wants us to think that) to the kth power (she is "his" girl)

for some value of k.

:) :) :)

[Zenlitened]

103. LOL! It's like a house o' mirrors, isn't it?

An infinite regression of paranoia... that has the effect of keeping us bickering amongst ourselves instead of advancing our candidates.

Sometimes I think the Roves of the world don't really even have to try any more. They just press a button, and we set to sniping and slandering each other, right on cue.

[Laurab]

28. I disagree - Clinton is the republicans DREAM candidate

No one will get out the vote for them like Hillary will. They don't want to knock her out, most of them sing her praises. They'll save the smearing for after the primary. Until then, we're going to hear a lot of praising, I think.

[onewholaughsatfools]

120. don't tell me you support hitlery

if so, you are the problem with the democratic party.........blessings

[NavyDavy]

14. this is bs

[K8-EEE]

31. *obviously* --

Sheesh when an accusation involves some supposed private conversation with Karl Rove everybody just takes it at face value, no questions asked?

[karynnj]

41. From the posts, I've seen that's not true

1) Most people are saying "if true"
2) The reason that it is plausible is that it is only a few steps from things he is known to have said. Think of whether this would sound reasonable if the politician in question were not Bill Clinton. Try Carter - uh, no; Gore - no way; Kerry - no way; Hillary Clinton - no, it doesn't sound like her. etc With Bill Clinton, it can't be ruled out. That in itself - says something.

[K8-EEE]

60. Yeah, I hear the Clintons "killed Vince Foster" too

Sean Hannity says so, so it must be true...it's in lots of BOOKS! IF TRUE, wow, they are really horrible people aren't they?

[karynnj]

73. There is an enormous gap between that and this op

As the comment has wide distribution - I hope Clinton refutes it. Foster's suicide was a tragedy as is any sucide.

[lyonn]

63. Doesn't sound like Bill speak to me

Bill was known for the silver tongue. This sounds like trash talk by Dem opposition.

Edit: poor typing

[flpoljunkie]

64. The Clintons were the folks who hired Dick Morris who hired Hillary's current pollster Mark Penn

Something we might want to remember about the Clintons.

[barbtries]

18. if this is true

it wipes out just about every good feeling i have about bill clinton. sucking up to evil

[Totally Committed]

19. This is a main example of why anyone who votes for a Clinton nomination

is out of their mind. Sorry, it's only my opinion, but there it is.

This couple will do anything, say anything, be anything and befriend anyone to ensure a return to the White House. They are dangerous in this regard. Please re-think your support if you are leaning toward Hillary this time out. Please.

TC

[Cameron27]

22. You know TC,

that's exactly what I think about John and Eliz. Edwards. They'd say or do anything and befriend anyone to make it to the WH.

[trashcanistanista]

55. But they haven't befriended

Bush Senior and gone on national TV about it. That's when the Clinton's lost me. During Katrina, no less.

[William769]

44. How did Rove not do a marvelous job?

Or is this just bashing for the sake of bashing?

[Phredicles]

51. By this definition of "marvellous", then I guess

the Wehrmacht did a marvellous job in 1939-40.

[William769]

54. what does 1939*40 have to do with it?

[yodermon]

21. Rove's "prowess" was only enabled by a complicit Media.

As we on DU know, 5 minutes of actual reporting would reduce Karl to a whimpering, incarcerated fool. But we have a corporate media cartel that bows to him and says what a "marvelous job" he does.

So Bill, you should really be complimenting the media elites, not ol' Karl. Oh, and flattery will get you nowhere with this crowd.

[K8-EEE]

23. Bill "pulled him aside" and who else exactly heard this conversation?

This sounds like BS to me....who are these people, Harris and Halperin, do they have any credibility?

[SaveOurDemocracy]

45. Here's credibility for you ...

(see post 39):

"The authors are MSM politial writers. I read the first chapter of the book, which was available on line a few months ago. The 2 authors actually praised Matt Drudge as our Edward R Murrow."


soooooooooo ... if you believe THAT, I guess they are credible. :shrug:

[K8-EEE]

56. Oh well be all means, let's declare the Clintons GUILTY!

And btw they BOTH raped Juanita Broderick, I know it's true cuz I read it in Free Republic....

[karynnj]

75. The sadder thing to emphasize is that they are unfortunately

given credit and write in what is considered the MSM. The problem goes beyond this op. These are people that people read in media that once was more trustworthy. (post 39 was mine - and the intent was to point out that even though these are mainstream people - there is something not right when journalists do not see Drudge as scum.)

[karynnj]

25. This may seriously be the final straw - if this is true, Clinton is absolutely amoral

Rove's techniques included the SBVT and the manipulation of homophobia. I have said that I could not volunteer for Hillary, this may make it impossible to vote for her. I had been disturbed by some of Clinton's other comments in the wake of the election - this though absolutely crosses a line.

I hope that Clinton says this didn't happen.

[K8-EEE]

30. "If it's true" is a big IF - did it come from Rove?

I still don't understand exactly WHO reported this conversation to the authors of this book, and who exactly the authors of the book are and if they know what they're talking about re: a supposedly private conversation.

If Clinton "pulled him aside" then only he or Rove would know what was said. Certainly I don't believe anything Rove told anybody. So unless Clinton owes up to it I'm putting this in the "more Rovian BS" file.

I prefer to hear Clinton's side of this before hanging both Clintons out to dry - people get awfully lynch-mob about 2 sentences that are totally hearsay!

[flpoljunkie]

32. Harris, Halperin's book, "The Way To Win, Taking the White House" was published in October, 2006.

[karynnj]

39. As, I said **if ** it is true

The authors are MSM politial writers. I read the first chapter of the book, which was available on line a few months ago. The 2 authors actually praised Matt Drudge as our Edward R Murrow.

I would say that as this is written in the WP, Clinton should deny it or correct it if not true. I do agree with you that I get suspicious when a conversation likely heard by few is leaked. The biggest problem is that I have NEVER heard Clinton really blast the use of techniques like the gay bashing referendums and the despicable SBVT. He and his people have criticized Kerry more for not being able to stop the lies than the liars themselves.

There was also a quote by Wolfson that said they learned swiftboating worked. I don't want us to sink to that level - especially at a point where the public may finally completely reject it.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[ieoeja]

34. Clinton/Rove destroyed the Democrats/Republican majority.

We had a CIO where I worked who was an absolute moron. He invariably promoted like thinking individuals which led to a period of gross incompetence througout our IT department. Years later we are still trying to correct their screwups.

So, yes, it doesn't surprise me in the least to hear that Bill Clinton thinks Karl Rove was a genius. Both managed to get into the White House while wrecking the rest of their party.

[wyldwolf]

42. the Clinton part is complete bullshit.

[ieoeja]

52. Right. Because I just imagined 1994. Damned dream sequences. n/t

[wyldwolf]

58. post hoc ergo propter hoc

after this, therefore because of this - a logical fallacy. Really no different than the assumption that George Bush’s foreign policy has thwarted Jihadist Terrorism because there have been no strikes on the U.S. since 9/11.

Does your firm grasp of politics and the year 1994 include (a) many years of pent-up popular frustration with a Democratic-dominated Congress, skllfully exploited by the GOP’s dishonest but resolute alliance with the term-limits and balanced-budget movements; (b) a huge number of Democratic retirements; (c) the racial gerrymandering that guaranteed big southern losses in the House; and (d) the first big mobilization of the Christian Right; (c) the culmination of a gradual but steady trend towards realignment of the two parties on roughly ideological lines, which gave the GOP its big opportunity (in conjunction with the four factors mentioned above) to make huge gains in areas of the country previously represented and governed by relatively conservative (certainly far more conservative than Clinton-style) Democrats?

Remember (or maybe you don't) the cracks began in 1980, when the Dems lost 35 House Seats and control of the senate. 1984 - Democrats lost 16 seats. 1992 - Democrats lost 9 seats.

[rinsd]

66. The Congressional Bank & Post Office scandals did not help (nt)

[beachmom]

35. Unfortunate remark, if true. n/t

[Vinca]

65. Well, that makes me want to vomit. nt

[lyonn]

67. After reading the comments here, one thing for sure

Democrats are not in lock-step!! Can't decided if this is good or bad.

Do we not want a Dem. for President?

Isn't any one of our candidates better than Any Repub?

At this point, Biden's my favorite. But this so called quote by Bill just doesn't make any sense. Why would he say it? How tight some Dems might be to the corporations is a good and serious question. This type talk doesn't make sense, Bill has an ego that wouldn't allow him to compliment someone so obviously a dirty dealer. Tricky maybe, but not dirty.

From day one of Bill's presidency I was a cheerleader. After sooo many years of rebub. BS he and Gore were a breath of fresh air. He did a lot of good for this country. Can you imagine 4 more years of Pappa Bush? Shudder

Hillary has to prove herself. Has she swung too far to the right? Let's wait and see before hacking her.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

76. Of course Bill was happy he took out Kerry

to clear Hillary's '08 path. One botched joke and Hill's true feelings were revealed.

[Arugula Latte]

77. I'm so fucking sick of the Clintons. They just don't get it.

Bill hobnobs with that evil prick Bush Sr. ... Makes me sick.

[KaptBunnyPants]

78. Well, on one hand it's Rove and Halperin saying this, so I'm inclined not to trust it.

On the other, he hired Dick Morris, who is as morally inferior as Rove, so it's not like it would really be shocking.

[mod mom]

80. don't forget it was Carville who helped * regarding Kerry Concession (per Woodward)

Did Carville Tip Bush Off to Kerry Strategy (Woodward)


By M.J. Rosenberg | bio




On page 344, Woodward describes the doings at the White House in the early morning hours of Wednesday, the day after the '04 election.

Apparently, Kerry had decided not to concede. There were 250,000 outstanding ballots in Ohio.

So Kerry decides to fight. In fact, he considers going to Ohio to camp out with his voters until there is a recount. This is the last thing the White House needs, especially after Florida 2000.

-snip

"Carville told her he had some inside news. The Kerry campaign was going to challenge the provisional ballots in Ohio -- perhaps up to 250,000 of them. 'I don't agree with it, Carville said. I'm just telling you that's what they're talking about.'

-snip

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward

[IndianaGreen]

84. The Clintons wanted Kerry to lose so that Hillary would be crowned as nominee in '08

This is why one of the Clintons' attack dogs, James Carville, alerted his wife to tell her boss (Dic Cheney) that Kerry was planning to challenge the Ohio results in court.

[venable]

86. rove is a liar and worse. the Clintons are liars and worse.

I pray this woman does not get the nomination.

Like I said when Reagan, Bush sr, Bush jr were running, I say the same about HRC - if she gets the WH, I am leaving the country. I can not bear to experience this culture of power and lies any longer.

(I'm all talk, I've not yet left the country, in spite of my assurance to myself and my great bluster about leaving)

(also - full disclosure: the second happiest day of my life politically was Bill's 92 win. I feel like a fool, now that I know these people better.)

(first happiest day - Nixon's resignation)

[illinoisprogressive]

93. they say Hillary is running Bush's 2000 campaign. the democrats Bush

[venable]

96. and they are right.

I truly hope that Edwards (first) or Obama (close second) can derail this corrupt juggernaut. This quote from Bill is the nail in the coffin. I can not accept that woman.

I now know why so many of my friends, progressives all, loathe her.

[farmbo]

99. Sorry Big Dog...Late nite vote flipping thru Blackwell's office is not "marvelous"

:shrug:

[lojasmo]

102. Good job disenfranchising all those black people, KKKarl.

Hyuck, hyuck!

[Semper_FiFi]

104. John F. Harris wrote that Kerry and Gore were defeated because...

"they lost control of their public images". I guess his word is gospel.:eyes:

[karynnj]

105. And Harris clearly helped in that "loss"

The first chapter of the book glorifies a totally fictious story replete with made up quotes about a $1000 hair styling Kerry had - the root truth was that Kerry had a routine $75 haircut. The Drudge version, designed to show Kerry as vain and fussy about his hair was described in detail - as was the fact that Kerry's office corrected it very quickly. Apparently this was an example of the superior campaign the Republicans ran.

Kerry and Gore ran serious issue based campaigns - and this was what Harris thought important.

[Inuca]

112. I hope it is not true, but if it is

it's sickening.

[fujiyama]

115. Yuck. Makes me sick.

I am also reminded of his advice to Kerry before the '04 elections that he should support individual statewide amendments banning gay marriage.

While I'll vote for Hillary in the general election and think Bill was a decent president, I don't see them having any core principals whatsoever.

[calteacherguy]

116. True colors. nt

[Gloria]

117. Bill lost his luster for me when he started chummying up to Bushco and

this little story certainly confirms that he's not in touch with us little folks anymore...

[loveangelc]

118. UM

I dont really understand why some of you are saying this doesnt sound like something Bill Clinton would say or you dont believe the story because its the washington post, as if its like the new york post. I could honestly hear Bill saying something like that to Karl, and it's obvious Clinton is like Rove in that she will do everything she can to win. This can be a good or a bad thing but llike she said "she's in it to win it" and thats the truth. She will do whatever she needs to do to win the Presidency. To some its a good thing to some its not, but you cant deny that its what she will do...

[mzmolly]

121. Filling this under "who gives a rip."

;)

[flpoljunkie]

126. There are plenty of us here who do "give a rip" about integrity in the electoral process and reject

the cynicism and amorality of such "win at all costs" mentality.

[mzmolly]

128. So you suggest that the "days after" the election Bill Clinton patted Karl Rove on the back for

"theft?" Interesting. I wonder how Bill "knew?" C'mon, legit criticism is one thing, absurd innuendo, another.

[flpoljunkie]

129. The authors not only suggest it, they report it as a fact. Do I think Bill Clinton capable of this?

In a word, yes. Anyone who brings Dick Morris into the White House is suspect in my book.

Perhaps we are talking about two different things. I don't know what Bill meant when he said this, but it's bad in way you look at it, as far as I am concerned.

[mzmolly]

130. Where is it proven as fact that Clinton knew Rove had stolen an election

days after said election?

:shrug:

[flpoljunkie]

132. Is this a "straw man" argument-denying something that was not alleged. Again, this is what I posted.

The Clintons recognize the skill Rove has brought to politics and admire his craft, if not his ideology. Just days after the November 2004 election, Bill Clinton pulled Rove aside at the dedication of the William J. Clinton Presidential Library in Arkansas. "Hey, you did a marvelous job, it was just marvelous what you did," Clinton told Rove, according to the book "The Way to Win: Taking the White House in 2008," by John F. Harris and Mark Halperin. "I want to get you down to the library. I want to talk politics with you. You just did an incredible job, and I'd like to really get together with you and I think we could have a great conversation."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/14/AR2007081401722.html

[mzmolly]

133. That is what you posted initially, but I'll let the remainder of our conversation speak for itself.

:hi:

[flpoljunkie]

134. I don't know what Bill meant by "marvelous job" but I think it stinks any way you look at it.