Clinton Camp: "Karl Rove Is Writing Sen Obama's Talking Points"

[mod mom]

Clinton Camp: "Karl Rove Is Writing Senator Obama's Talking Points"
By Greg Sargent | bio
The battle between Hillary and Obama is getting more bare-knuckled by the day. Here's the latest from Camp Hillary:

"It sounds like Karl Rove is writing Senator Obama's talking points," said Clinton spokesman Phil Singer. "The reality is that as the campaign now gets under way, Senator Clinton's ratings are improving because Americans are seeing that she has the strength and experience to deliver change."

The Clinton camp's blast was apparently a response to an interview Obama gave to The Washington Post, in which he attacked Hillary as follows:

"I think it is fair to say that I believe I can bring the country together more effectively than she can," Obama said. "I will add, by the way, that is not entirely a problem of her making. Some of those battles in the '90s that she went through were the result of some pretty unfair attacks on the Clintons. But that history exists, and so, yes, I believe I can bring the country together in a way she cannot do. If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't be running."

-snip

http://electioncentral.tpmcafe.com/blog/electioncentral/2007/aug/15/clinton_camp_karl_rove_is_writing_senator_obamas_talking_points

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LSparkle]

3. Yup ... you'd think they'd know better than to even mention Roverat

Do they really want to be associated with HIS remarks?

[Colobo]

4. It's like they want to get Obama into dirty fighting again

[LSparkle]

21. That's their strategy -- make him look defensive

But he's actually pointing out differences between them, which is exactly the opposite of what she's doing. She's calling for "unity" in the party ("let's not fight each other; let's fight the Repugs") as if she's a foregone conclusion. This is the time in the campaign for candidates to draw distinctions, to talk up their strengths ... not to just fall in lockstep and "make nice." (THAT party comes after the primaries.)

Obama has to show that he can stand up to her -- and thus far each time he has, he's gained more of my respect.

[rinsd]

5. It was over the top considering what Obama said.

Besides you don't react to charges of polarization by going on the war path.

Not that this will matter much outside of DU and will be forgotten within a week.

[Colobo]

9. I think Obama's people will hit back

and we will have another week of war between the camps.

[rinsd]

16. He will certainly hit back. That's been a plus with his campaign.

[mod mom]

7. Sounds like Obama hit a raw nervew them & rightfully so:

"I believe I can bring the country together more effectively than she can"

Absolutely true. HRC has got to know how divisive she is even within the Dem Party.

[rinsd]

12. Hillary may divise on DU but she's not divise within the party.

She has higher net approval ratings amongst Democrats by far than any of the other contenders.

[Inuca]

15. What about the net disapproval?

[rinsd]

22. Not sure if you're kidding or not....

...hard to get the tone.

But when I said net approval I meant her approval subtracting his disapproval amongst Democrats, right now its at +71. The downer is she has the exact opposite rating from Republicans a -71. She is at -9 with Ind.

If you knew that anyway and were just taking a shot at my candidate, just ignore this.

[Inuca]

24. I was taking a shot AND not paying enough attention

at the same time. Apologies :blush:

[rinsd]

28. LOL! Fair enough.

[mod mom]

20. Um

As someone who had organized a 300+ Kerry/Edwards GOTV Group in Ohio in '04 and keeps in touch w other organizers from communities, I can honestly say I don't see support for Clinton.

After seeing how the GOP under Rove infiltrated BOEs, MSM and of course the DoJ, do you really believe they wouldn't try to infiltrate the pollsters?

Just saying...

Fritz Wenzel (of T.Blade + Coingate fame) Now Working for Zogby


Weird...He allegedly suppresses Coingate story prior to the '04 Election in Ohio and is now working for Zogby. What's up with this?


Saving Ohio

Did a reporter with GOP ties suppress a story that could have cost Bush the White House?

By Bill Frogameni

Pages 1 2


October 6, 2005 | In April 2005, the Blade newspaper of Toledo, Ohio, began publishing a remarkable series of articles about a well-connected Republican donor, Tom Noe, chair of the Bush-Cheney 2004 campaign for Lucas County, which encompasses Toledo. The Blade, which had won a Pulitzer Prize for reporting in 2004, discovered that Noe, a Toledo coin dealer, was investing $50 million for the state through the novel practice of coin speculation: buying and selling rare coins to turn a profit. Noe, the Blade revealed, could not account for $10 million to $13 million in the fund.

The paper also divulged that Noe had been placed under federal investigation for allegedly laundering money -- perhaps state money -- to the Bush campaign. The Blade's initial reports on Noe started a chain reaction of related scandals for Ohio's dominant Republicans. Recently, Gov. Bob Taft pleaded no contest to accepting several gifts from influence peddlers -- including Noe -- without reporting them, as law requires. Noe is currently the subject of 13 investigations.

In November 2004, Lucas County was among the most hotly contested areas in the most hotly contested state. Kerry won the county by 45,000 votes, but George W. Bush went on to win Ohio by less than 120,000 votes, which swung the election for him.


But Bush's reelection may have been made possible by a Blade reporter with close ties to the Republican Party who reportedly knew about Noe's potential campaign violations in early 2004 but suppressed the story.

According to several knowledgeable sources, the Blade's chief political columnist, Fritz Wenzel, was told of Noe's potential campaign violations as early as January 2004. But according to Blade editors, Wenzel never gave the paper the all-important tip in early 2004.



-SNIP
http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2005/10/06/ohio/index.html



Zogby International spokesman Fritz Wenzel said that was the case in July when Syracuse Post-Standard reporter Glenn Coin wrote a story about Vice President Cheney’s visit to Utica for a fundraiser for Meier. Wenzel was quoted extensively in the article.

http://www.zogby.com/soundbites/ReadClips.dbm?ID=13587



However, as it turns out, both Wenzel and his son had personal relationships with the Noes, who even attended the son's wedding.

In fact, in March 2004, a couple of months after Wenzel got the tip, his son was elected to the Lucas County Republican Central Committee, and from April 15, 2005, to the end of May 2005, Wenzel's son was on the payroll of the Ohio Republican Party.

http://www.counterpunch.org/pringle06092006.html

[rinsd]

26. Sorry I usually ignore "evidence" that amounts to anecdotal and tinfoil.

[mod mom]

38. What every linked source is tinfoil? TPM? Reuters? Salon? sheesh...

:eyes:

[rinsd]

43. Its the analysis and inferments, not the links (nt)

[corkhead]

41. not divisive? I want some of what you're smoking

She's the corporate candidate, it's win-win for them if they get HRC as the Democratic nominee instead of any one who more closely represents true Democratic values, IMHO.

[rinsd]

44. So she's divisive but its win win for the GOP?

Which is it?

[corkhead]

46. I said win-win for the corporatists. Of course they want their own back in the WH

so they are going to continue to use their divide and conquer tactics to tear her down, but at the end of the day they'll be almost as happy to have a DINO.

If you exclude DU from the "divided", then maybe I should agree with you. Among the people I know and talk to in the general population, the disdain for her is unanimous.

I think the Polls are bs.

[rinsd]

52. That just doesn't make sense.

So Clinton is the GOP's choice because she will drive GOP turnout because they hate her but they don't care if she wins.

:shrug:

"Among the people I know and talk to in the general population, the disdain for her is unanimous."

I have yet to meet a supporter of 5 of the 8 candidates. Is it then logical for me to assume those candidate have zero support?

[corkhead]

55. you keep switching my words to GOP, she is a CORPORATIST

If she gets the nomination, they will have the WH regardless of who wins the general.

What makes her a better Democratic choice on policy position than ANY of the other announced candidates anyway? None of your ilk seem to be able to answer that for me. All I seem to ever see is a group of you who come swarming on anybody who doesn't share your enthusiasm for HRC.

[rinsd]

56. My ilk?

"What makes her a better Democratic choice on policy position than ANY of the other announced candidates anyway?"

Name a policy position. Because most of the field are moderate Democrats with the exception of Kucinich and Gravel.

"All I seem to ever see is a group of you who come swarming on anybody who doesn't share your enthusiasm for HRC."

BS. People who attack Hillary get the horns. And yeah calling her a corporatist is an attack.

It is absolutely hilarious that you feel you should be able to freely smear and insult people yet play victim because people decide to hit back.

[Capn Sunshine]

57. what's a "Net approval"?

when you take out all the folks who think she can't win?

[rinsd]

62. Approvals subtracting disapprovals = net approval.

"when you take out all the folks who think she can't win?"

No, but I think we can ignore impact the very whiny contigent of Hillary haters whose bark far exceeds their bite.

[Bitwit1234]

39. Obama is stupid for saying what he did.

I think this campaign by Obama bashing Clinton and then Clinton's campaign members bashing him back is what is stupid. If you reprimand Clinton's camp you should reprimand Obama also.

[global1]

48. Obama Didn't 'Bash' Clinton - He Was Simply Stating Fact.....

what's wrong with what he said? But for the Clinton camp to bring Rove into this discussion - now that was simply wrong.

[sandnsea]

45. She proved him to be right

She can't bring the country together because she prefers the politics of hate.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

80. Politics of hate? Was it HRC who sent out a racist memo to smear an opponent? nt

[corkhead]

2. here they come... 5,4,3,2,1,...

:popcorn:

[Buzz Clik]

6. Woohoo! I love tinfoil hats.

I also love posts that assume I'm as dumb as a post.

[mod mom]

11. Here is it again w Reuters if TPM isn't reliable enough for you:

http://www.reuters.com/article/reutersEdge/idUSN1523964720070815

[Buzz Clik]

63. You misquoted "camp Clinton":

You attributed them as saying, "Karl Rove Is Writing Sen Obama's Talking Points", when in reality Singer said, "It sounds like Karl Rove is writing Senator Obama's talking points."

The difference is not subtle and very important.

[Usrename]

67. Sounds like some very serious projection by camp Clinton.

In either case.

But hey, if they are such experts on Rovian talking points, then they'd understand that projection is right up his alley.

[ChiciB1]

8. Well... Clinton & Obama... Keep The Band Playing Cause I'm Checking

in with someone else. I must say that it DOES surprise me that the Clinton Camp would say that Rove's writing Obama's "talking points!" That seems a bit of a stretch!

Frankly, I'm really tired of hearing about ONLY TWO candidates ALL THE TIME! What about the rest of the pack?? There are many many others running but we don't hear much about them. The more I hear about the two of them, the more it makes me turn away from them both!

Sorry, just MHO!

[Inuca]

10. This is disgusting, really

By the way, Obama IS right, he would have a better chance to be a "uniter" (apologies!!). Not only he does not have the famous baggage Clinton has, but I think it is more in his nature. From everything I read/hear, Clinton, smart and hard-working as she may be (ans she is all that) is not good at cooperating even with friends, and I would assume much less so with enemies (read republicans). And like it or not, the next president will need to build some bridges, otherwise nothing will get done, and we all are in deep trouble.

[karynnj]

58. It was also the theme of his convention speech

Although Kerry may have had something to say about it and it is very consistent with Kerry's ideals, it was written and given by Obama. He spoke of how the country was not red and blue, but purple and appealed to what unites us, not what divides us.

[Inuca]

77. Agree on all points

I know I am not the first, not even the one millionth to say this, but that was one HELL of a speech!

[Cameron27]

13. I don't like it,

I didn't like it when Obama referred to her as Bush-lite either. The two of them should stop this crap.

[JNelson6563]

14. By the time they beat each other to pulps

Gore can step over the mess and skate to victory. :toast:

[TwilightGardener]

17. Pretty funny--projection is her MO.

[Larkspur]

18. Sounds like Sen. Clinton's camp is using Karl Rove style attacks

Bill Clinton is such an admirer of Karl's ruthless tactics.

[Colobo]

19. Maybe Karl will join...

[LSparkle]

27. LOL!

[ellacott]

23. How is this an attack, give me a break

They really need to stop acting like school children. Next they are going to get mad because the other one is looking at them.

My goodness, what is wrong with these people.

[Colobo]

29. What is wrong with the Clinton camp? Cockiness.

[SaveElmer]

25. Funny the handwringing...

From people defending Obama for calling Hillary Bush/Cheney lite...

[Colobo]

30. It was wrong, and this is wrong. Do you agree?

[SaveElmer]

32. It's politics...

It's meaningless...and only important to folks like us who love to talk politics...

In terms of impact, Obama's statements probably had more because he made them himself..whereas this is just a spokesman...

But neither will have a long lasting impact...and neither are terribly important in the wider world...

[Colobo]

34. Wrong or not? C'mon Elmer, be honest. You know both statements were wrong

regardless of politics.

[SaveElmer]

35. Wrong you mean unethical?

Or wrong, just wrong...

Unethical..no, not really...

Wrong in that Hillary is not Bush/Cheney lite, or that Obama is using Karl Rove techniques...probably...

[Colobo]

36. Both statements were dishonest.

[SaveElmer]

40. If I go back and look...

Will I see a condemnation of Obama's statement from you? Prior to this thread?

[Colobo]

42. I probably stayed away from that comment.

I usually stay away from that type of attacks.

[jefferson_dem]

69. Whoooosh...

...the sound of SaveElmer's credibility going "bye bye".

[karynnj]

59. "It's politics" , but this constant sniping will lead to

both their unfavorables going up - and though most Democrats will vote for the Democrat, the independents may buy both of their arguments - and decide they like neither. That could lead to the "lasting effect" you say doesn't exist.

I don't like "Bush-lite" nor do I like this Karl Rove nonsense.

[Inuca]

31. That was wrong and

over the top too.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Chulanowa]

72. Most pertinant post on the thread

Thank you, Grovelbot!

[thereismore]

37. Tsk tsk tsk. nt

[zulchzulu]

47. Does Celine Deon have a version of the Eagles' "Desperado"?

That should be the new Clinton theme song...

:puke:

[roguevalley]

49. Is it okay to be sick of all the candidates at this point? I am sick of

everyone. Damn this long primary season.

[jgraz]

61. You think the primary season's long?

Wait until this time next year when you've already had 6 months of campaigning from the presumptive nominees.

[Inuca]

78. The "fun" has only started

as the darling media keeps reminding us, they have only begun to take the gloves off.

[BeyondGeography]

50. Sounds like they were looking for an opening to get even for "Bush-Cheney Lite"

except they got clumsy about it. Obama was tactful enough to strongly imply that right-wing loons were to blame for the War on Clinton. It was as balanced an assessment of the situation as any competitive politician trying to get ahead in a race for the nomination can be expected to make. And Team Clinton goes all Rove on his ass...dumb.

[Hawkowl]

51. Inexcusable

This is a PRIMARY. You don't hear the rethuglicans ripping themselves to shreds among their base by saying some candidate resembles Bill Clinton?

It figures that Hilary is the first to assemble the circling firring squad that dems are renowned for. It seems to be the number one DLC strategy.

[durrrty libby]

53. So Obama = Rove ? That can't help him

Sorry, blowing smoke out of his ass, by saying he can do anything better than Hillary,
makes him looks silly

It only adds to the naive and inexperienced meme

[KaptBunnyPants]

54. Pretty sad response from the Clinton camp.

The meaningless dropping of the Rove-Bomb, divorced from any actual relevance to what Obama said, doesn't bode well for the prospect of a thoughtful political campaign. They must think the people are so stupid. They think they can just drop Rove's name and the Pavlovian response will kick in. Oh, well, they're probably right. It's not like we could use actual, substantial dialog about the problems facing the country.

[calteacherguy]

83. The Clinton camp has learned from Rove. nt

[jgraz]

60. Woohoo! Let the two frontrunners grind each other down

:woohoo: Maybe by January this contest will be between Edwards and Kucinich. Wouldn't that be nice?

[Colobo]

65. Edwards? Possibly. Dennis? Nah.

[jgraz]

70. I said it would be nice, not that it would be possible

Let me have my little fantasy. :P

[IndianaGreen]

64. Progressives are leery of Hillary and her reckless machismo

Published on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 by TruthDig.com

Hillary Pushes the Button
by Robert Scheer

What in the world was Sen. Hillary Clinton thinking when she attacked Sen. Barack Obama for ruling out the use of nuclear weapons in going after Osama bin Laden? And why aren’t her supporters more concerned about yet another egregious example of Clinton’s consistent backing for the mindless militarism that is dragging this nation to ruin? So what that she is pro-choice and a woman if the price of proving her capacity to be commander in chief is that we end up with an American version of Margaret Thatcher?

In response to the 9/11 hijackers, armed with weapons no more sophisticated than $3 box cutters, American military spending, with Senate Armed Services Committee member Clinton’s enthusiastic support, has catapulted beyond Cold War levels. Sen. Clinton has treated the military budget as primarily a pork-barrel target of opportunity for jobs and profit in New York state, supports increased money for missile defense and every other racket the military-industrial complex comes up with, and still feels no obligation to repudiate her vote for the disastrous Iraq war.

Given her sorry record of cheerleading the irrational post-Cold War military buildup, do we not have a right, indeed an obligation, to question Clinton’s whether Clinton is committed to creating a more peaceful world? Don’t say that we weren’t warned if a President Hillary Clinton further imperils our world, as she has clearly positioned herself as the leading hawk in the Democratic field. What other reason was there for first blasting Obama for daring to state that he would meet with foreign leaders whom Bush has branded as sworn enemies, and then for the attack on Obama’s very sensible statement that it would be “a profound mistake” to use nuclear weapons in Pakistan and Afghanistan in the attempt to eliminate bin Laden?

<snip>

Pundits for the National Review, The Weekly Standard and other pro-war outlets have come to applaud Clinton. A host of political scientists and other campaign hustlers have also approved this image makeover; as a recent Boston Globe headline put it, “Tough talk drives Clinton effort: National security stance seen adding to image of strength.” One political scientist from Texas stated: “She’s come off as credible and serious on national defense-an issue that two years ago most of us would have thought would be a liability for her.” The Globe noted that “When Geraldine Ferraro was the Democratic candidate for vice president in 1984, she was dogged by questions about whether she could ‘push the button’ to launch an attack if the Cold War turned hot.” The paper then quoted Ferraro as saying that Clinton, whom she supports for president, has passed that test: “You can’t do that with Hillary Clinton. Hillary is in a totally different place.”

Great, so forget the hope that a woman president might prove to be more enlightened than macho men in the matter of peacemaking, and instead rest assured that Hillary would have the cojones to “push the button” that would kill us all. Once again, the old Clintonian tactic of triangulation: positioning oneself politically instead of taking a position of integrity.

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/08/15/3179/

[Forkboy]

66. Projection

:P

[jefferson_dem]

68. Apparantly...

singer is a fucking idiot!

[Arugula Latte]

71. To the Clintons: STFU already

You make me sicker and sicker with every passing day.

[Enrique]

73. boo Hillary

let's get this race out of the little ditch it's currently in.

[illinoisprogressive]

74. funny that coming from clinton as she is using Rove's playbook

[Mutineer]

75. It's okay when HRC does that though

it's just wrong when anyone uses her own tactics against her.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

81. HRC is running on "unity" and "changing the tone in Washington" ("new kind of politics)?

[Ethelk2044]

76. She must be really worried

[Gloria]

79. You know, Hillary and her campaign is making me want to puke

[calteacherguy]

82. Breaking: Clinton campaign responds to valid points made by Obama with a smear.

Well, clearly we know which campaign is not the poltics of hope.

[UrbScotty]

84. Perhaps the best post on this thread. Right on. (nt)

[TeamJordan23]

85. Just Pathetic. nm